Politics Angry greeks, ΑΓΑΝΑΚΤΙΣΜΕΝΟΙ ΠΟΛΙΤΕΣ

[iapetoc]

well
that is 1 of the latest news

http://news247.gr/ellada/politiki/pagkalos_politiko_grafeio_kinhta.1094533.html

Mr Pagkalos is the one that told the GReeks
hahahaha the money, we eat them together.

well I close my company due to double taxation 23% of market buing and 23% by the owners in building construction of Houses,
I never spend more than 60E per/month sometimes 100 E

He spend 46 319 E for his mobile phone!!!!!!!!!!!!
in one month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we Greeks have to suffer more from guys like him

Nop Mr Pagkalos, we did not eat that money together, you ate a lot

I repeat again Angry greeks are not party members they are the 45% that did not vote in last elections
and probably some that vote small parties,

Angry Greeks wants all of them from All parties to move,


well seems like after 'we ate them together'
comes the ' WE SPOKE TOGETHER'

where is the comparison and feelings to Greek people that suffer!!!

YEAH I found it, he spent the money for our good future :grin:

Elias2 I hope you understand why Greeks do not want to pay taxes.

 

[iapetoc]

HI ANGELA
HI SPIEGEL MAGAZINE

HI LAZY GERMANS


According the LE MONDE and a search of PATRICK Αρτους Arteous (je ne sais pas Francais)
and Institute Natixis Greeks are working more than Germans

the result of economic cooperation organisation are 1.390h / german 2.119/ greek

SO THE MYTH OF LAZY GREEKS AND SOUTH EUROPEANS IS BUSTED
CAUSE GERMANS ARE LOW THAN EVEN THE AVERAGE OF EU
in Fact they belong to the most lazy Europeans
that is in Greek according the LE MONDE transalation

http://news247.gr/oikonomia/ergasia...ia_ellhnes_germanoi_ergatikothta.1094100.html



Besides who Blame Spain and Cucumber for the Ecoli, but as the later news it is an Inner Hamburg pollution Bacteria that spread, All victims are connected with Germany as the news say,

Simply who make a millions damage in Spains production, and left 000 of Spanish people with out work.

who will pay Spain for the damage made to them??????

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj...onsiders-legal-action_news#from=embed&start=6

http://news247.gr/kosmos/news/vakthrio_fonias.1093561.html

 

[Valmir]

I have a feeling that something will happen to the world and soon, many bad things happend in these last years.

 

[iapetoc]

I have a feeling that something will happen to the world and soon, many bad things happend in these last years.

Well Valmir out of Party control. just think,

Albania is a country that soon enter EU,

IS REAL DEMOCRACY the case of the municipal elections? How many days to announce who won??????
I Stay that 15 days and did not get a result. so probably more.
well today you may know.

SO the CASE OF REAL DEMOCRACY TOUCH YOU ALSO.

and since you are Albanian I don't know in Albania, but Majority of Albanians immigrants in Greece works more than average Greeks, so that is why you are still poor country,

you are not 'working much like Angela does'

 

[iapetoc]

well that is video I found,

you can search if is it True

Germany with depth bigger than Greece took secret loans, ST OMO loan
the money missing
Let Greeks pay

WELL BYE BYE ANGELA.
WE ARE LEAVING EURO
BUT WE DON'T PAY

IN CASE YOU DON'T BELIEVE
search the Bellow

I wonder all of you that read that thread,

Is that the Europe that Founders dream?
Is that the Eu that your children want to grow?
Is that the EU that you want?

ok in Greece will ostracism some,
But what about EU central bank and ST OMO loan???
who will judge and who will punish them?

Simply By hearing the above I feel double Betrayed
1 time from Greek politician, cause I am Greek
2 time from EU politicians, since I still consider my shelf European.

simply EU mechanisms did not help the betray


do not need knowledge of special Mathematics
read the bellow

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogjune11/greece-please-default6-11.html


#1 is patently absurd, and so we are left with #2: the banks designed and offered these loans with predatory intent. Now the banks are offering their political lackeys a menu of predation to choose from:
1. Deliver the wealth of the Greek nation directly to the banks via transfer of national assets
2. Deliver the wealth of the nation over time via "austerity" programs that in essence divert the surplus national income to the predatory banks
3. Increase taxes on the "core" Euroland nations' taxpayers to fund a "bailout" of Greece that is in essence a direct transfer of those taxpayers' wealth to the big predatory banks; the "bailout" is just a pass-through to the banks.

-----------

We are constantly warned that the resulting collapse of the "too big to fail" banks would trigger a global implosion. That is false; life would go on after the predators declared bankruptcy and were liquidated. What the predators fear most is an awareness that any disruption in normal life would be brief and relatively painless compared to the vast suffering imposed to render them their pound of flesh.


So the whole Greek crisis,
was designed by the times of ST OMO loan
from 2007-8

so the case of PIGS was design by before. by whom???????

True- and maybe US should do the same by taking examble out of African countries. After all, US has the largest debt per capita after Japan (first in terms of external debt- check the CIA factbook). And just think that poor, bankrupt Greece ranks #8 at the same list.
BUT after that, what?
I still wonder why Angela insulted Greeks

They cheat EC BANK at 2002
But did NOT cheat other countries in 2008 as other did :useless: :useless:
and they work more than she,



Well in Sunday 5/06 Greeks All Over EUROPE WILL REVOLT for12 DAY

I HOPE GERMAN PEOPLE COME TO JOIN US
AND CREATE
#GERMAN REVOLUTION

FOR REAL DEMOCRACY

 

[iapetoc]

that is an erase.

 

[Elias2]

RT is the Fox news of Russia, I don't think its credible at all, and just want to push their own views and agenda.

 

[LeBrok]

Elias, don't ruin iapetoc's new conspiracy. etrified:

Iapetoc, what is your solution for Greece problems? Where do you think Greece should go? How do you imagine Greece future regarding political system and economic system?

It's easy to protest, it's not easy to find new ways, especially the once that lead Greeks to prosperity.

I still wish Greeks all the best, but I don't see any substantial solutions.

 

[Antigone]

RT is the Fox news of Russia, I don't think its credible at all, and just want to push their own views and agenda.

Well you've just described every media outlet in the world, nothing new there. Only a fool would take any media report at face value and the only way is to listen to varying reports, question everything reported and then research yourself to find some form of truth. At least iapetoc is asking the questions and looking for the answers, which is more than can be said for some I read.

Contrary to what the western media is saying, most Greeks do, in fact, realise there needs to be social, economic and political change if Greece has a hope for the future. But before that there also needs to be accountability from those in charge, past and present, before any re-building can begin. So far, the politicians are still in denial, which is why the people are on the streets.

 

[LeBrok]

It is not nearly so simplistic as that, but nothing ever is. The previous government WAS elected on its promises to clean up government corruption and the public service sector, it wasn't until the current government (again elected on similar promises) that the true story was revealed along with the extent of the thieving and cover-ups.

So no, the people are not responsible for being lied to, they voiced their opinion (in 3 consecutive elections now) that they'd like the corruption on all levels dealt with, in the only course open to any people in a democracy, at the electrate. They have been cheated, not only of their money, their trust in their government but also of their nations self respect and standing. It is no wonder people are angry.

Of course, there is a third course to go in the Greek electrate. The Communist Party is the third strongest and third alternative party, perhaps you'd prefer the majority began voting that way?

Antigone, my preferences don’t mean anything. We are talking democracy, people’s choices, general choices, statistical choices, majority choices. If Greeks go with communist party then be it. That’s how democracy works, right?

The parties lie, that’s nothing new. Politicians lie to get elected, that’s nothing unusual, some people are not honest, and that’s nothing uncommon either. What surprises me is that most people make same bad choices, over and over again.
We are not talking about uneducated population in Nigeria, but about very educated Greeks making poor choices. It’s not only related to Greece but also to majority of countries on earth.
Granted that Greece economy and political life is affiliated with European neighbors and generally EU, and this international situation can spreads some influence over Greece, but this is the Greek government that makes polices of what goes around in Greece. These politicians in government are elected by Greek people, so at the end people decide about major direction of Greece politics and economy. If they are mislead it means that they were tricked into making wrong choices by dishonest politicians. But still it means that people can’t recognize liars. They rather judge politicians by words than by records of their actions. It might also mean that they rather believe in what sounds good for them, what they hope for, instead of analyzing if the said promises are viable, possible, that these promises will work for economy, or for social and political setting.

The bottom line is, either education system is not teaching people of what works in real world, what is possible in real world, how political and economic systems work in real word. Other explanation would be that no matter how good education is, most people in general won’t make good choices.
If the later is true it would mean that democracy will always fail in Greece. If first one is right, then there is a hope for Greece in next generation, of course if education is reformed.

To my understanding general democracy or direct democracy fails to elect the right people to run our countries. There is no question that we should be lead by most intelligent, the most common sense, and the most honest people our countries can produce. If democracy in current form is not the answer, then what is? Either we should reform democracy to find way to elect right people or new system should be invented to do a better job.



Believe it or not Greece situation is not so much different than many individual people. We don’t need huge international conspiracy to understand difficult financial situation.
Let’s say I want to buy a house. With my salary I would need to save for 30 years to buy a house when I’m 55 years old. Being an educated man, I’ve learned that there is an institution, a business that wants to lend me 500 000 dollars, drachmas, whatever you name the money. I could by a house this year but their demand is that I have to pay them 5% a year from unpaid amount, let’s say the conditions of a mortgage. Surely this is my choice what I will do. Wait 30 years and don’t make the bank rich, or live in better conditions in a house for 30 years for a fee.
Surely I want better conditions for me and my family, I’ll pay them, it’s a deal, shake hands. That’s a simple business proposition in our modern world, everyone is familiar with it. I live in a house with a yard, I like it and it’s worth paying for it. Bank is happy too, making money off me, and having more cash to lend to others in similar to my needs. One could say that both parties involved are happy and content.
Unfortunately I got carried away, and asked for a million dollars to get even a bigger house. I barely had the money to pay, the recession came and I couldn’t pay it anymore. The bank gave me more time to pay, but it is still too much, it’s killing me now. I don’t want it anymore. Don’t take me wrong, I still want my big house, but I don’t want to pay the bad bank anymore. It’s crazy to give them so much money! The imperialists, capitalists, CIA, Germans, EU, corrupted liars, all ganged up on us. Screw you!

Sounds familiar?

That’s Greece right now, borrowed too much money to support better standard of living.
It’s nothing wrong to borrow money. It’s a good thing in right circumstances. The balance is needed though. Even a good thing is fatal if overdosed.

The funny thing is that even our governments don’t trust ordinary citizens in financial matter. How much money we can borrow, is limited by government regulations. For example in Canada you can’t borrow from the bank more than you can pay with 40% of your salary, the interest payments shouldn’t exceed 40%. Ordinary, common, simple people, the citizens are trusted to elect the right parliament and president, but they can’t be trusted in financial matters? That’s weird!
What is wrong with this picture?
Of course it should be different for governments, because the smart people there know what is right, and surely they won’t borrow too much money, so much money that we won’t be able to pay back, right?

Oh, wait a minute! It is just happened in Greece.
I don’t need conspiracies to understand roots of Greece financial problems. I don’t need to hear Angela Merkel to know what protesters are unhappy about. In whatever way other countries influenced Greek politics and economy, it is not the cause of Greeks misfortune. Don’t blame others. Greek tragedy, had Greek beginning and will need Greek ending, a solution.

 

[Antigone]

Nah, don't buy it Lebrok. All you've given is a repetition of the common misconceptions on Greece that are being reported in the west.

It is a bit like me giving you a lecture on the internal workings, problems and mentality of Canada. Having never been there, nor lived there I'd only be able to give you my perception from the outside, which, of course would be nowhere near the reality.

 

[edao]

Barclays bank forced to admit it paid just £113m in corporation tax in 2009 artilce


Tax avoidance is going on everywhere, I work with a lot of small to medium businesses in my work and I have many clients who talk freely about how their accountants pay them via dividends to avoid paying 30% more tax. Wealthy people all over the world are doing thier best to hide their money thats nothing new, all economies have to work with this problem. Maybe in Greece the working class are not paying taxes, here generally they are the ones paying their fair share because they can't afford the fancy accountant or lawyer to play the system for them.

I think the fundamental problem all this comes down to is the distribution of wealth in the Capatalist system. Thats a much bigger nut to crack.

Economies recovering from recession generally create healthy growth on the back of new business start ups. In the UK David Cameron has talked openly about the fact the government has no magic wand to get the country out of its problems, but needs peoples entrepreneurial culture to come forward and start business that generate wealth and create jobs.

While I accept the sytem doesn't work very well and the majority of the people are under the thumb of the powerful and wealthy, we all know this already its old news.

The question has to be what are YOU going to do about it?
Not your government, not the EU, not the IMF, not Obama, just you.

At the end of the day the scenes in Spain are very moving, but what will it accomplish, nothing. Young educated people angry frustrated doing nothing, complaining that things are tough. What are the Spanish government going to do throw money out the windows, create fictional jobs, dissolve banks and hand over money to the people?

Governments are powerless now, they're good at spending wealth not making it. The wealth and job creation Spain, Greece and every other country in Europe needs has to come from people taking responsibility, saying ok enough, if I can't get a job if I can't be paid more I'll take control.

The best way to take control in a Capitalist system is to start your own business. If the people in the Squares in Spain were completiting business plans instead of protesting it would be more constructive in providing solutions. If your going to be negative about it you'll only see the problems (lets be honest there are plenty to find).

People need to be positive and find solutions, it not easy but then its not easy for anyone.

 

[Elias2]

Of course media outlets have their own bias but some more than others, and when I watch RT I feel like I'm watching fox news, just the russian version of it.

 

[iapetoc]

yes it is RT Russian tv, so not official EU media,

But the case is not if ST OMO and rest,
the case is if ST OMO was DONE????

yes it is Left or Right or Conspiracy.

Lets look at the story of Modern Greece,

1945, Greece is under English and USA on 1 hand and Russia on the other,
the result, Greek civil war with millions of victims dead or alive, and the FYROM Issue,
Greeks worked for west world as immigrants of the 50's and in East Europe as exiled from Greece.

1967 Greek Dictatorship and the Kissinger plans against Makarios (Cyprus president)
while Grivas and Eoka and etc are back Greek revolt Polytechneio in which Damanakh was, Brought a new Dictator who Dare to mix with Cyprus politics, why? and by whom pushed,
The result Cyprus is divided due to Greeks, who helped to the LIberty of Cyprus,
The conspiracies are every where.
the modern conspiracies are many,

NOW TO THE POINT,
Yes Greece has a problem in Gov positions, salaries, Public assistance,
Yes Greece was not following the insurance system of rest Europe or Germany,
but that was before Mnemonium 1,
(the agreement with IMF)
Greece is now according German laws and more harder,
NO CDS FALL
Greece enters mnemonium 1
No CDS FALL
fire people from jobs raise taxes to 35% etc,
No CDS FALL

the mnemonium 2
what?

lets see,
1 house, an apartment, cost before measures lets say 200 000 E,
the tax was
1 buy 15%
1 owning (ETAK) every 2 years 1%-4%
1 living (ΦΑΠ) that was payed with electricity
1 E9 according how much big is or how many you have a tax every year of 0% (1 small house own) to 5% (if you have many)

what is happening,
that house according new values cost 300 000 E
Taxes are raised,
you sell it for 75 000, But no body buy,
New houses are to be sold in 1/4 of the price that state tells, but nobody Buy,
why then I should pay that taxes????
When in East block were in Hard times, HOUSES AND VALUES WERE ALSO ACCORDING SALARIES.
why IMF is not doing the same???
it is simple, THEY DO NOT WANT GREECE TO RECOVER!!!!! and pay
Why Foreigners don't buy or Invest in Greece,
Cause Greeks are selling cheap But Taxation Is High

Ok Greek did not manage the standars of Euro. why they don't leave us out of Eurozone??
cause ... etc.

SIMPLY WE TELL THESE GUYS, IF YOU DON'T FEED THE COW, NO MILK YOU GET!!!!

that does not mean Give us money, But help reconstruct market,
AND THAT IS WHAT THEY DON'T DO,

Now about taxation
that is not a conspiracy but an every day life lesson,
I want to write a lot, but you say that I am paranoic and not happening,
just ask some Greeks about the chinese stores in Greece, or visit a china store in Greece and ask a receipt,
then ask me what is happening,

Simply corrupt politicians don't care they care only for their pocket and how to spend the money of the people,


I don't need to give all of you lessons in Democracy,
Democracy is the system that was invented in Greece Sparta (Apella) or Athens (call of Demos),
But remember Παυσανιας, or Αριστειδης ο Δικαιος, (Pausanias general, Aristides)
In democracy power belong to people,
in today represented Democracy power belong to the elected, but they construct a συμμορια (gang)
the case is known and was described by Kropotkin in early 20th century,
now the elected many times avoid people choice, and do not put referendums but they make law so they (the few) earn against the many,
that is not Democracy,
Ostracism was done to afraid politicians the wrath of people

But lets look the today,
if you watch the Greeks news,
only 2 from 5 private channels in news tell about Pagkalos case, and only 3 of 5 the damanakh dilemma
while the 3 state not even to think about.
so media is under control???? I don't know, you may answer that to your shelf
lets see the split of media,
half say that Angry Greeks are just protesting,
and half say that they are democratic revolt, and they block elected and Legal gov, to do his job,

who is right then?
they both are,
But in case of other promise and other done,
or in case that majority protest then, legal is the people choice,

IN DEMOCRACY FIRST IS THE PEOPLES CHOICE
NOT ONLY THE DAY THEY VOTE, BUT EVERY DAY,

so if majority is saying no,
THEN EVERY MINISTER OR PRESIDENT IS ILLEGAL, ALTHOUGH IS ELECTED,

that is a start to understand what real democracy is,

In democracy it is the not king, not the prime minister, not the president above people,,
simply
THEY ARE ELECTED TO EXECUTE THE PEOPLES WILL AND TO HANDLE THE STATE MONEY LETTERS ETC,
NOT TO BECOME 4 YEARS TYRANTS


Nobody has the right to stop the elected on doing his job,
BUT THE MAJORITY CAN EVEN EXECUTE HIM

Demos is a bad word,
Demos was the haunt dog of God Ares (Mars)

so from 1974 until today we learn
1) +5 +5 = -5
the maths of the Harvard fished politicians in Greece

2) serving the people means I eat, I spend, I Buy and people pay

3) I Take decisions according my earn and not the people

4) Tax are to pay only the poor and helpless,
Rich artists, Parliament members, Big corporations, do not have to pay the exact tax,
they can make a settlement, an agreement with state and pay half

5) and something new,
the fake values
your shoes you buy or sell 10 E do not cost 10, but 40 E
how do you like that,
cause that is what feel here, especially in market and properties, and new business
the IMF theory,


if in Sunday 2 000 000 people gather in Athens and Thessaloniki

I Ask All of you who read that, and love democracy
WHO Will Be LEGAL? the ELECTED? OR THE PROTESTERS?

Understand what real Democracy is,
Understand the power of your vote,
Understand the power of your will.

we must stop corruption All over the world,
with our money Banks, with our taxes politicians are building empires and 1 day corporations,

if I use the A Lincoln moto,

Lets start again the gov
of the people,
with the people,
FOR the people

cause it drop to
FOR THEIR SELF


to any of you that know about political systems and Roman History,
tomorrow in Greece, Athens and Thessaloniki,
either Apella or ecclesia will speak and decide,
either 5th Phalanx will strike.
in case some do not understand
http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/...icht-das-land-an-der-krise-18102150.bild.html

Das CIA-Fazit: Der harte Sparkurs und die desolate Lage lässt die Situation eskalieren, Athen werde es kaum schaffen, das Land noch in den Griff zu bekommen.



Well sometimes I ask my self, If Greece sell her politicians? how much Greece earn???

 

[iapetoc]

The best way to take control in a Capitalist system is to start your own business. If the people in the Squares in Spain were completiting business plans instead of protesting it would be more constructive in providing solutions. If your going to be negative about it you'll only see the problems (lets be honest there are plenty to find).

People need to be positive and find solutions, it not easy but then its not easy for anyone.

oh really do you want me to show you a report of 8000 own business (small companies) that close in 2011?
do you want me to send report of about 80 000 family business that close from 2007???
do you want a list of Big business that were supported by some not to pay tax, and took prim to expand, to struggle middle class?
do you want a list of Greek business that moved to Albania and Bulgaria and Turkey and Romania?

Greece had a strong middle class due to small business family companies,
All destroy due to different policy, they pay tax, while the BIg ones, had tax reliefs and bank help.


yes Edao you right to that
People need to be positive and find solutions

BUT

CITIZENS MUST NOT FEAR POLITICIANS
POLITICIANS MUST FEAR CITIZEN


and to honest,

NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO TOUCH AN ELECTED
UNTIL A TRIAL OR AN OSTRACISM

 

[Antigone]

Edao does make a good point and I don't think closure or relocation of local businesses can be blamed entirely on the government. Sure government does play a part and so do large international chain stores who drive smaller family businesses into closure but for any business to prosper it also needs the support and patronage of the local community. In my experience, many Greeks operate under the false illusion that any foreign product has to be better than local and this mentality also has to change if Greek businesses are to survive.

For instance, I never go to places like Starbucks or McDonalds etc, will always go instead to a local kafeneon or get souvlaki or giro for a quick meal. Whenever possible always buy local eggs, fruit, vegetables and cheeses, Greek made clothes rather than Zara or BHS. There is a lot that everyone can be doing to enable a better future.

 

[iapetoc]

well seems like it is gonig to Be an inner EU Greek -German fight




the Man of photo is the prime minister of Bayern-Bavaria if I spell it correct.
In his answers to Bild am Sonntag.
he believes that no more Xtra Help should be given in Greece unless measures give results and Greece enter to new Mnemonium #2

in his answer he believes that Greece must not drop the Euro,

well it seems like Germans are pushing the 1 E = 2 $ while Greece and south wants the 1 E = 1 $

it is going to be a hard fight in Europe's parliament if that is so.


I still wonder why many Believe that Greece wants money,
Greece want a mechanism against money Vultures,
smaller CDS according her depth which is simmilar and smaller than others, Japan, USA California etc
and a more flexible Euro so to be in competition to export and not import,
Yes, I must not forget Greece also needs to change constitution and punish some to fight corruption.

so if Angela and her friends wants us out, ok let us out, :cool-v:

I still wonder if we Sell our politicians how much we earn!!!!

 

[iapetoc]

and the debate still goes on among Greece and Germany.

ITALY TODAY,

the supreme court of Italy has decided that Germany must pay only to Distomo municipal 75 000 000 E
the supreme in Florence (Φλωρεντια).

that is old 65 years case,
but from 2000 on courts,

the case starts from a John Stamoylis Ιωαννης Σταμουλης case of Greek victims against Nazi,
today the act is closed only for distomo Municipal,
According the result of The Trial, Distomo Municipal, and the people of Distomo can anytime they want move in confiscation of property of German Public in the lands of Greece Italy.
The above according the Paris Treaty after WW2.

remind you that is only the Distomo case, the whole victim restitution is still under debate, from 50 000 000 000 E to 126 000 000 000 E
cases Like Kalavryta kaisariani and smaller like my preferacture's Tachnista and Melea are not on justice yet.

for every one wants to know

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distomo_massacre

After that Greece is ready to Den Haag, while is preparing a court against other neighbor countries that supported Axis with troops. and kill Greeks in Greek territory,
Until today these people can ask from Italy or Greece to prevent in confiscation, while after Den Haag they can even force Germany to confiscate in German land,

Seems like WW2 and the Greek-German war is not ended, or restart after the latest insults.

 

[iapetoc]

and the debate still goes on among Greece and Germany.

ITALY TODAY,

the supreme court of Italy has decided that Germany must pay only to Distomo municipal 75 000 000 E
the supreme in Florence (Φλωρεντια).

that is old 65 years case,
but from 2000 on courts,

the case starts from a John Stamoylis Ιωαννης Σταμουλης case of Greek victims against Nazi,
today the act is closed only for distomo Municipal,
According the result of The Trial, Distomo Municipal, and the people of Distomo can anytime they want move in confiscation of property of German Public in the lands of Greece Italy.
The above according the Paris Treaty after WW2.

remind you that is only the Distomo case, the whole victim restitution is still under debate, from 50 000 000 000 E to 126 000 000 000 E
cases Like Kalavryta, kaisariani, Viannos(Crete) and smaller like my preferacture's Tachnista and Melea are not on justice yet.

for every one wants to know

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distomo_massacre

After that Greece is ready to Den Haag, while is preparing a court against other neighbor countries that supported Axis with troops. and kill Greeks in Greek territory,
Until today these people can ask from Italy or Greece to prevent in confiscation, while after Den Haag they can even force Germany to confiscate in German land,

Seems like WW2 and the Greek-German war is not ended, or restart after the latest insults.




Seems like soon Greece will be one like in 1940, and not divided like in 1945 or 1967.

let the Greeks sleep and they sleep, and you will rule them
Put a spell and Greeks will divide and fight among them,
Insult Greeks, then face them all. :grin:

 

[LeBrok]

Au contraire mon capitan. It actually looks like Greeks were sleeping for couple of decades and just woke up. They just woke up, looked around and started shouting:
"Who did this mess in my country!. Must be the Germans, or Macedonians, maybe Turks or other easterners, obviously USA with CIA, bankers and Jews. Who the heck did this? Surely it weren't us. We were... sleeping."

Did Greeks protested 20 or 10 years ago when deficit was rampant and debt was starting to pile up? Where were the Greeks back then to see the signs of coming gloom and doom? I suspect they were sleeping, otherwise they would have noticed the signs, right?

If you say again, that Greeks were duped, cheated, manipulated. Then I say again, rethink your democracy, because obviously, people - Greeks in this case, are not able to make good choices if it comes to politics or economy.
Don't concentrate on Germans or EU, concentrate on Greece.

I ask again, what is your solution for Greece? We know how you feel and thousands protesting, but what are you proposing for Greece, what solution?
Are you going to follow Portugal with center-right new government and tightening the belt? Looks like Portugal doesn't want to protest, they get beck to work fixing Portugal. Your prediction that protests will spread through Europe is falling apart.