Which European groups have phenotypical overlap with the Middle East & North Africa?

Multiple choice; Which have resemblances to Middle East or North Africa?

  • British and/or Irish

    Votes: 4 6.3%
  • Scandinavians (Swedes, Norwegians, Danes)

    Votes: 6 9.4%
  • Finns

    Votes: 3 4.7%
  • Estonians, Latvians, and/or Lithuanians

    Votes: 3 4.7%
  • Russians

    Votes: 4 6.3%
  • Ukrainians

    Votes: 3 4.7%
  • Poles

    Votes: 3 4.7%
  • French

    Votes: 9 14.1%
  • Spaniards and/or Portuguese

    Votes: 24 37.5%
  • Germans, Austrians, and/or Dutch

    Votes: 4 6.3%
  • Corsicans

    Votes: 13 20.3%
  • Sardinians

    Votes: 17 26.6%
  • Northern Italians

    Votes: 11 17.2%
  • Southern Italians and/or Sicilians

    Votes: 37 57.8%
  • Albanians

    Votes: 21 32.8%
  • Serbians, Bosnians, Croatians

    Votes: 13 20.3%
  • Bulgarians or Romanians

    Votes: 14 21.9%
  • Greeks

    Votes: 35 54.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 10 15.6%
  • None

    Votes: 10 15.6%

  • Total voters
    64
This is an amazing cocoa, a German sent me an e-mail asking me to complete my V22 to 67 DNA to study the V22 in the Alps, now I do not want to spend a euro cent come the holidays, is there E1b1b1a3 in Los Alps?, I really think that this is still in its infancy and much remains to study the project of E does not venture to draw many conclusions as I see it done here on the R1b for example, that anyone would venture to say where it comes from until the last tribe of the remotest corners of Europe.
 
I know J2b is heavily associated with Greece.
I have explained in other topics that J2b is always less than J2a in Greece (but J2b has it's maximum diversity in Thessaly) so you can't say that J2b is specifically related with Greeks. The maximum frequency of J2b is in Albanians (around 15%).
 
Well central Italy today has the following (according to the table here)

10% I
3.5% R1a
43% R1b
8.5% G
21.5% J
10% E
3.5% T

So of that, there's still a pretty high amount of R1b.. almost half. But there is a significant amount of J as well.



Another study showed that the areas of historical Etruscan occupation share a relatively high concentration of y-haplogroup G with Anatolians, and the people of Caucasus, where the haplogroup reaches its greatest presence, particularly amongst the Ossetians and Georgians. This evidence is not specific to any period or calendar date, and might reflect contiguous populations or significant migration far back in the Stone Age.

Another study by geneticist Alberto Piazza of the University of Turin linked the Etruscans to Turkey. The team compared DNA sequences with those from men in modern Turkey, northern Italy, the Greek island of Lemnos, the Italian islands of Sicily and Sardinia and the southern Balkans. They found that the genetic sequences of the Tuscan men varied significantly from those of men in surrounding regions in Italy, and that the men from Murlo and Volterra were the most closely related to men from Turkey. In Murlo in particular, one genetic variant is shared only by people from Turkey

In 2004 a team from Italy and Spain undertook a genetic study of the Etruscans, based on mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from 80 bone samples taken from tombs dating from the seventh century to the third century BC in Etruria.[14] This study found that the ancient DNA extracted from the Etruscan remains had some affininties with modern European populations including Tuscans in Italy. In addition the Etruscan samples possibly revealed more genetic inheritance from the eastern and southern Mediterranean than modern Italian samples contain.

Etruscans were mostly G and J people, R1b is Italocelic,
 
Another study showed that the areas of historical Etruscan occupation share a relatively high concentration of y-haplogroup G with Anatolians, and the people of Caucasus, where the haplogroup reaches its greatest presence, particularly amongst the Ossetians and Georgians. This evidence is not specific to any period or calendar date, and might reflect contiguous populations or significant migration far back in the Stone Age.

Another study by geneticist Alberto Piazza of the University of Turin linked the Etruscans to Turkey. The team compared DNA sequences with those from men in modern Turkey, northern Italy, the Greek island of Lemnos, the Italian islands of Sicily and Sardinia and the southern Balkans. They found that the genetic sequences of the Tuscan men varied significantly from those of men in surrounding regions in Italy, and that the men from Murlo and Volterra were the most closely related to men from Turkey. In Murlo in particular, one genetic variant is shared only by people from Turkey

In 2004 a team from Italy and Spain undertook a genetic study of the Etruscans, based on mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from 80 bone samples taken from tombs dating from the seventh century to the third century BC in Etruria.[14] This study found that the ancient DNA extracted from the Etruscan remains had some affininties with modern European populations including Tuscans in Italy. In addition the Etruscan samples possibly revealed more genetic inheritance from the eastern and southern Mediterranean than modern Italian samples contain.

Etruscans were mostly G and J people, R1b is Italocelic,

Oh I'm not doubting that the Etruscans would have been of haplogroups G and J. I was just saying that central Italy has a significant amount of R1b as well.
 
Anyone else have anything to add to this thread or vote on the poll? Unlike the other thread, let's keep this one on topic.
 
No, of course. Why do you ask me that?

Because I see that the Spanish are very present in your thoughts. Remember that in Europe we do not have your roles, so no projects.
 
Well central Italy today has the following (according to the table here)

10% I
3.5% R1a
43% R1b
8.5% G
21.5% J
10% E
3.5% T

So of that, there's still a pretty high amount of R1b.. almost half. But there is a significant amount of J as well.

From what I have read, considering that modern Tuscans have a very high percentage of R1b, theories suggest that ancient Etruscans had a sort of casta-system in which the richest class was Mediterranean and probably arrived from modern Turkey and belonged the haplogroup J, but most of people -the mass - were natives and belonged to the R1b stock, so they were not different from their Celtic and Italic neighbours..
The rich Etruscans could buy wonderful graves that have survived to the time. Inside them archeologists have found a lot of J.

Isn't there some link between haplogroup J2 and the Caucasus and Mesopotamia?

Modern Y-haplogroups in the world.

y-haplogroups-1500ad-world-map.jpg

Haplogroup J2b (the "European" J)

j2b-map.jpg

J2 highest picks are in the Balkans, Romania and in southern Italy, but also in India among high castas. It's not very West-Asiatic. It's more a Greek-Illyrian thing.
 
Question.. which West Asians do you guys think look closer to Europeans; Caucasus (Armenia/Georgia) or the Levant (Lebanon/Syria/Palestine)?
 
In my opinion the Caucasus populations are slightly closer to Europeans.
 
Georgians seem to be the closest phenotypically to Europeans.
 
Georgians I have seen look a bit like this... could they fit in Europe?

5198365061_2792fcd3ba_m.jpg
5198961864_ecf53ac8a9_m.jpg
5198961382_3891024710_m.jpg
5198960588_0ac15e0d64_m.jpg
 
Certainly the third and fourth ones from the left would fit.
 
They are very similar, and their major component is West Asian (near 75 %, very high). Some Saudis get near 100 % Southwest Asian, and they clearly don't look as European as Georgians and others do.
 
They are very similar, and their major component is West Asian (near 75 %, very high). Some Saudis get near 100 % Southwest Asian, and they clearly don't look as European as Georgians and others do.


How different would you say Armenians and Georgians look from the Lebanese?
 
I rather not say...Lebanese, Syrians, Jordanians, etc., are quite closer genetically speaking between them, with very similar Mediterranean, West Asian, and Southwest Asian proportions. I think it's posible that sometimes quite of them can look almost the same as Georgians, but there would be much more phenotypical diversity according to the autosomal data.
 
She looks more western Turkish, IMO.
 

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