The Haplogroup E in Europe.

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Grey Moss said:
Of course. (y)

What this faux Spaniard Ferreira fails to understand is that the great majority of M-81 in Iberia, as in many other places in Europe, results from ancient (Mesolithic / Neolithic) migrations and has no impact on phenotype. Very little M-81 in Spain and Portugal comes from the Muslim occupation.
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One word: Delusional. And may I remind you that Ferreira is a galician name?
 
Grey Moss said:
You are total madman. You have no knowledge of how genes work or what genetics research is all about. Stop acting like a parrot and making a complete fool of yourself.
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If you want to provide some scientific study in favor or against, it will be welcome. But if you are going to talk nonsense then best you don't participate. Are you really interested in the Y-DNA?
 
Ignore Grey Moss my friend. It must be a clone account of Wilhelm or Cambria Red.

Again thanks for a excellent thread about the AFRICAN roots of the spaniards.
 
Ferreira said:
Yes it's true, but a lot of spaniards, specially andalusians, could pass for residents of northern morocco/ northern Algeria, and vice versa.

In Spain there are a lot of moroccon inmigrants, and some of them are indistinguishable from the Spanish people.
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I don't exclude this possibility, but for the simple fact that around the stright of Gibraltar very likely climate on the two sides are very similar, so does also the solar exposition and impact, etc. etc. so it can be that in Andalusia natives have evolved features that are similar to those of some Berbers. Exactly like I would not be surprised if someone in Sicily would look similar to a Tunisian or in Rhodes some Greek looked like a Turk/Lebaneses.

However I doubt that most Andalusians and Sicilians look more Berber than European. Excluding in toto that there are individuals who might resemble Berbers would be however very stupid and arrogant too.
Two individuals can look similar also being very different genetically.

Grey Moss said:
Of course. (y)

What this faux Spaniard Ferreira fails to understand is that the great majority of M-81 in Iberia, as in many other places in Europe, results from ancient (Mesolithic / Neolithic) migrations and has no impact on phenotype. Very little M-81 in Spain and Portugal comes from the Muslim occupation.
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Yes, I think it's the same with J2 in Italy and Romania. Italy and Romania experienced almost no levantine domination but we have the same high frequencies of J2 (Romania even more than Italy).
 
Too low African roots to separate Iberians from the rest of Europeans, that's the fact you always like to forget.

Come on funny clown, continue...¡dance! XD
 
I also wanted to add that establish who is more European is pretty abusive and not scientific at all. From a Spanish prospective the most exotic would be some Baltics and Russian cousins who show strong mongoloid features (especially East Baltids), from a northern European prospective Italians, Iberians, Albanians and Greeks would be the most exotic. As an Italian I found very exotic a Russian girl from Moscow with slanted blue eyes and rounding face. I saw something asiatic in her.
Most of us probably associate the "pure" European to the British/Germanic type, simply becouse the largest racial policies arose and were spread in the germanic area (British colonies and German Reich). In ancient Greece, for exemple, some books were written in which was esposed that the purest and superior race is the Southern European one, fair but not too pale, dark but not too dark.

Europe is a continent and to establish who is more European is like to jump in Asia and try to establish if a Thai is more Asiatic than a Japanese or a Malaysian. Pretty absurd.
European is every person who has a skintone from pale to brunette/olive, has a not flat nose, shows prognatism and has caucasian facial features. Eyes and hair colours don't matter, as well as height and corporature.
 
Sybilla said:
I don't exclude this possibility, but for the simple fact that around the stright of Gibraltar very likely climate on the two sides are very similar, so does also the solar exposition and impact, etc. etc. so it can be that in Andalusia natives have evolved features that are similar to those of some Berbers. Exactly like I would not be surprised if someone in Sicily would look similar to a Tunisian or in Rhodes some Greek looked like a Turk/Lebaneses.

However I doubt that most Andalusians and Sicilians look more Berber than European. Excluding in toto that there are individuals who might resemble Berbers would be however very stupid and arrogant too.
Two individuals can look similar also being very different genetically.



Yes, I think it's the same with J2 in Italy and Romania. Italy and Romania experienced almost no levantine domination but we have the same high frequencies of J2 (Romania even more than Italy).
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I agreed with you in general. The problem is that a lot of spaniards are very racist people, and because of finding 10-12% of the spanish population belong to haplogroup E (non-European origin) means something terrible for them. Then they start to insult.
 
Spaniards have problems facing the fact their african roots are more higher than in the rest of Europe (they have an inferiority complex about it), but I don't want to generalize now. We have finally meet a spaniard (Ferreira) who is able to accept this and the fact that his countrymen are very racist.
 
Ferreira said:
Yes it's true, but a lot of spaniards, specially andalusians, could pass for residents of northern morocco/ northern Algeria, and vice versa.

In Spain there are a lot of moroccon inmigrants, and some of them are indistinguishable from the Spanish people.
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Total hogwash! LMAO!
 
I know spaniards and some morrocans too... and most of them look exactly the same.

Ferreira is right as usual. ;)
 
Sois insoportables.
 
Ferreira said:
I agreed with you in general. The problem is that a lot of spaniards are very racist people, and because of finding 10-12% of the spanish population belong to haplogroup E (non-European origin) means something terrible for them. Then they start to insult.
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Of course, we're back to the idea that only single digits are of recent Berber origin, certainly not all of the Haplogroup E in Iberia. It's commonly thought (although it has been recently challenged) that most Haplogroup E is older in Europe even than European Haplogroup R1b, including a significant portion of the Haplogroup E in Iberia.

I would also be surprised if ALL of the Berber-type Haplgroup E in Iberia came from the occupation... to me, to suggest such would be like suggesting that people couldn't move across the Straight of Gibraltar until then, which is absurd, of course. The total contribution of that occupation must be in the low-single-digits in terms of percent... present, but small.
 
Ferreira said:
Yes it's true, but a lot of spaniards, specially andalusians, could pass for residents of northern morocco/ northern Algeria, and vice versa.

In Spain there are a lot of moroccon inmigrants, and some of them are indistinguishable from the Spanish people.
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Hey mountebank, do these Andalusians look like your typical (not Kyble or similar original or Eurasian Berbers) Algerian or Moroccan? LMFAO!! Now, do us all a favor and go back to your sandbox.:LOL:
 
sparkey said:
Of course, we're back to the idea that only single digits are of recent Berber origin, certainly not all of the Haplogroup E in Iberia. It's commonly thought (although it has been recently challenged) that most Haplogroup E is older in Europe even than European Haplogroup R1b, including a significant portion of the Haplogroup E in Iberia.

I would also be surprised if ALL of the Berber-type Haplgroup E in Iberia came from the occupation... to me, to suggest such would be like suggesting that people couldn't move across the Straight of Gibraltar until then, which is absurd, of course. The total contribution of that occupation must be in the low-single-digits in terms of percent... present, but small.
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Yes, the consensus is that the Muslim invasion had very little genetic impact on Iberia.

The genetic substratum of Spain and Portugal is essentilly Paleolithic, Proto-Celtic, Celtic and Germanic with minor Near Eastern influences. Muslims in Iberia, unlike the Celts and Germanics were not settlers. Big difference.

BTW, the DODECAD and Polako autosomal frequencies show very clearly how overwhelmingly European Iberians are. Spain presently registers ~ 91% Euro, with about 39% W. Euro and N. Euro while Portugal is at 85%, including ~ 38% W. Euro and N. Euro. The difference between the two population groups has to do with much higher Basque frequencies for Spain, which boosts the S. Euro component and a higher (5-6%) NW African affinity in Portugal (mainly S. Portugal).
 
Grey Moss said:
Hey mountebank, do these Andalusians look like your typical (not Kyble or similar original or Eurasian Berbers) Algerian or Moroccan? LMFAO!! Now, do us all a favor and go back to your sandbox.:LOL:
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You are so ignorant! The two last men are Los Morancos, two famous regular comedians on Spanish television. They are Andalusians, and are so atypical that used to play jokes with an English accent, making a joke of being English.
The girls with regional clothes could be from souther Spain or Norther Morocco. We know they are from Andalucia only because of their clothes.


You do not realize, unaware that your ignorance, for every picture of a blond Spanish I can get 100000 photos of dark haired spanish.

Also in Arab countries, including Morocco, there are people with lighter features. Lala Salma, wife of King of Morocco.
 
Grey Moss said:
Yes, the consensus is that the Muslim invasion had very little genetic impact on Iberia.

The genetic substratum of Spain and Portugal is essentilly Paleolithic, Proto-Celtic, Celtic and Germanic with minor Near Eastern influences. Muslims in Iberia, unlike the Celts and Germanics were not settlers. Big difference.

BTW, the DODECAD and Polako autosomal frequencies show very clearly how overwhelmingly European Iberians are. Spain presently registers ~ 91% Euro, with about 39% W. Euro and N. Euro while Portugal is at 85%, including ~ 38% W. Euro and N. Euro. The difference between the two population groups has to do with much higher Basque frequencies for Spain, which boosts the S. Euro component and a higher (5-6%) NW African affinity in Portugal (mainly S. Portugal).
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There is no such consensus. That's what you want to believe. The Muslims ruled southern Spain for 8 centuries, and they were in Spain not as slaves but as masters. Do you think they were all gays? they did not have relations with women in the Iberian Peninsula? Hahaha.
 
At the wedding of the heir to the throne of Morocco, the Swedish press confused Lala Salma with Rania of Jordan.
 
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