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Thread: Did you know that Kurds(Kurdish PeoPle) are Europeans?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    Haa, Man who lives in the New World Speaks.

    After thinking Anglo-Saksons have only been in Britain for 1500 years

    After thinking the history of Slavs in the Balkans

    Have I mentiond Russians?








    After the thing who is the member of United Nations Security Council and even the members of the same block making shity things to each other. It makes sence

    US-France
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...acceptable-nsa
    The only reason the turks entered the Isis war is to prevent a Kurdistan being formed, they, the Turks where initially helping ISIS sell there oil, allowing recruits of ISIS to pass etc ......their goal now is to destroy Isis and retain territory held as a land grab on the basis of a a future proposed split up of Syria ..................
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Maybe we should get the definitions down. Modern day Turks are Anatolians with some minority Turkic ancestry which arrived more recently, i.e. in the last 1000 years. That's hardly a reason to say that modern day Turks are newcomers to Turkey.
    also modern Turk nationality, is some thing which grow in and feed in Anatolia.

    Example Ottoman Archtecture

    This is just copy of Hagia Sophia

    or Fes Culture, it is not Turkic or Islamic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    The only reason the turks entered the Isis war is to prevent a Kurdistan being formed, they, the Turks where initially helping ISIS sell there oil, allowing recruits of ISIS to pass etc ......their goal now is to destroy Isis and retain territory held as a land grab on the basis of a a future proposed split up of Syria ..................

    1-As ı said many times, Turkey doesn't have that much balls. He can't act ownselves.

    See, Turkish minister going to Israel to improve Israel-Turkey relationship while Israel decides to built more houses on Palestine lands. Did somebody tell Turkey supported Hamas???


    This is the politics and it is always Chaotic.

    2-This is not relevant about your previous post which you just talk nonsense

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    THE MEDES Forefathers

    Quote Originally Posted by iapetoc View Post
    sory
    Aq qoyunlu
    kara koyonlu
    the turkmen and azeris,
    also the armenia,
    so kurds Armenians azeris-turkmen share the same area, also some already state populations like turks syrians

    I know that kurds have IE language an old Iranian which fits in their location today,

    I wonder what makes you believe that Kurds are more Europeans from Greeks or south Italians or some others
    according what basis you make that claim?

    I mean you believe kurds moved from Europe to that area?
    what makes you to coonect them with europe? what you observed?

    The Kurds are an Ancient people, "The Medes". More specifically an Indo-European. (Arian Race). Scholars are chasing some archeological relics to find out what happened to the "The Hittites". If the Hittites are Medes and mixed with the Persians in general, then the Kurds are Europeans, because the Hittites came down from Northwest Europe (Germany?) ? and we don't know what happened to them once they vanished in the Anatolia. For your own reference; TURKS are MONGOLIANS, They are originally Chines as we can see their physical appearance. After all, we are all human, and it doesn't matter which race you are Mongolian or Arian Race. We all are God's Children. Peace to the World!

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    Quote Originally Posted by UNITED KURDiA View Post
    The Kurds are an Ancient people, "The Medes". More specifically an Indo-European. (Arian Race). Scholars are chasing some archeological relics to find out what happened to the "The Hittites". If the Hittites are Medes and mixed with the Persians in general, then the Kurds are Europeans, because the Hittites came down from Northwest Europe (Germany?) ? and we don't know what happened to them once they vanished in the Anatolia. For your own reference; TURKS are MONGOLIANS, They are originally Chines as we can see their physical appearance. After all, we are all human, and it doesn't matter which race you are Mongolian or Arian Race. We all are God's Children. ,Peace to the World!

    kurds and persians come from indo european yes. but today they have ethiopian and semitic genes. i think in persian empire have so much mixed with blacks and after arabic peoples.(because arabs invade the persia.) this is why some kurds and persians look like a middle eastern/darker.

    and first turks come from native american/siberian peoples. after they are mixed mongolians, uralic, and east iranic peoples. but today turkey turks mostly look like white and aryan race. dna maybe little bit asian and middle eastern and close to greeks dna.

    so turks are not aryan race. we are slanted eyes looking japanese/chinese people. we come from asians. but today turkey turks are more aryan.

    btw we proud of our asian origins/also aryan origins. we mixed all of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UNITED KURDiA View Post
    The Kurds are an Ancient people, "The Medes". More specifically an Indo-European. (Arian Race). Scholars are chasing some archeological relics to find out what happened to the "The Hittites". If the Hittites are Medes and mixed with the Persians in general, then the Kurds are Europeans, because the Hittites came down from Northwest Europe (Germany?) ? and we don't know what happened to them once they vanished in the Anatolia. For your own reference; TURKS are MONGOLIANS, They are originally Chines as we can see their physical appearance. After all, we are all human, and it doesn't matter which race you are Mongolian or Arian Race. We all are God's Children. Peace to the World!

    Kurds have a lot of arabic, and Indian genes. As people Kurds are hard core middle easterns. Nothing to do with Europe. Turks also are not Europeans in cultural and racial terms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    Kurds have a lot of arabic, and Indian genes. As people Kurds are hard core middle easterns. Nothing to do with Europe. Turks also are not Europeans in cultural and racial terms.
    i really dont see any different syrians and kurds. they are same. but turks are more european than other peoples of middle eastern i think
    Last edited by XipeTotek; 15-07-18 at 10:09.

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    If you see E-v13 numbers in Kurdistan its half the Greek percentage so could half or atleast 1/3rd of Kurds be Greek settlers who came to this region when they controled this region for centuries before the Turks came? HG I too is more in this region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XipeTotek View Post
    i really dont see any different syrians and kurds. they are same. but turks are more european than other peoples of middle eastern i think
    Kurds are Iranian stock. There is a wide genetic verity among them since they reside in a large area. But if you see DNA results Kurds posts on internet a large portion of them report at least 10% Indian. And then another large portion Middle Eastern which as you are saying it could be Syrian. As for Turkey been more European. European is a vague term. Its more associated with culture (Christianity) than genes. Cyprus is genetically hard core middle eastern country. They call it European. Malta is North African. They call it European. Albania is a hard core European Country. They call it Turkish. So genes do not matter in being European. Turkey has never been considered European. When Ottomans invaded Europe in 14 century there were plans from Vatican and their circle to Organize and militarily remove ottomans from Europe. Ottomans were considered Asians. The plan never materialized. Albanians believed the the plan and rose in armed resistance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    Kurds are Iranian stock. There is a wide genetic verity among them since they reside in a large area. But if you see DNA results Kurds posts on internet a large portion of them report at least 10% Indian. And then another large portion Middle Eastern which as you are saying it could be Syrian. As for Turkey been more European. European is a vague term. Its more associated with culture (Christianity) than genes. Cyprus is genetically hard core middle eastern country. They call it European. Malta is North African. They call it European. Albania is a hard core European Country. They call it Turkish. So genes do not matter in being European. Turkey has never been considered European. When Ottomans invaded Europe in 14 century there were plans from Vatican and their circle to Organize and militarily remove ottomans from Europe. Ottomans were considered Asians. The plan never materialized. Albanians believed the the plan and rose in armed resistance.
    I almost don't know where to start.

    Malta is not genetically North African. Only idiots with an agenda would call Albanians Turkish because some of them adopted Islam. Cyprus plots very close to the Middle East, but not quite.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    Its more associated with culture (Christianity) than genes. Cyprus is genetically hard core middle eastern country. They call it European. Malta is North African. They call it European. Albania is a hard core European Country. They call it Turkish. So genes do not matter in being European.
    I agree about European-Chrisitanity connections and Cyprus. But Malta, African? You can say Middle Eastern but not Africa.

    "Distribution of European mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroups by region in percentage"
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/autos..._country.shtml

    Maltese are more Asian then African.

    Using name Turkish for every Muslim was a Middle Age habit which was strong and contiuning till early 20th cen. But not any more, maybe just for extreme nationalist Balkan Christians

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    I don't know whether this is correct, but I was told Maltese are non-Muslim ethnic Arabs.
    Their language would be Arab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I don't know whether this is correct, but I was told Maltese are non-Muslim ethnic Arabs.
    Their language would be Arab.
    They're not Arabs, they're genetically Sicilian who descend from Sicilians who settled there.
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    I agree about European-Chrisitanity connections and Cyprus. But Malta, African? You can say Middle Eastern but not Africa.

    "Distribution of European mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroups by region in percentage"
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/autos..._country.shtml

    Maltese are more Asian then African.

    Using name Turkish for every Muslim was a Middle Age habit which was strong and contiuning till early 20th cen. But not any more, maybe just for extreme nationalist Balkan Christians
    No, they're not Asian either.

    Any PCA of Europe would show you where they plot, which is a little bit south of Sicilians.



    Most of their ancestry derives from the initial settlement of a group of Sicilians on the island. Since then there has been some admixture, but that is the base. The result is that they are a bit more North African and South-west Asian than Sicilians. However, they are NEITHER West Asian nor North African. If that much North African made you North African, then all Spaniards and Portuguese are also North African.

    We've discussed this numerous times on many threads.

    There's even a dedicated thread on their genetics.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...=Malta+settled

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    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    They're not Arabs, they're genetically Sicilian who descend from Sicilians who settled there.
    but how did their language originate then, a mixture of Semitic and Latin?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_people#Language

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    but how did their language originate then, a mixture of Semitic and Latin?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_people#Language
    Yes the language is a mixture of Sicilian, Arabic and a few other languages but they are still genetically Sicilian with a bit more North African and Southwest Asian in them compared to Sicilians, as mentioned.

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    When the Muslims conquered Sicily and held it for about 200 years, they imposed their language, among other things. A certain number of Sicilians, as happened in Spain and Portugal, converted to Islam. They may have adopted a Semitic language as well. The non-converts might have kept their own language, although there is controversy as to whether "their" language was a Latin dialect or a Greek dialect or whether there were both Greek and Latin dialect speakers. Also, it may be that in certain areas even non-converts might have adopted the Semitic dialect, although interspersed with "Sicilian" Latin based terms. It's just not very clear what precisely happened in terms of the language.

    The genetics, by contrast, are very clear: they're very similar to Sicilians.

    The source of the additional South-west Asian and North-African is, however, not clear.

    It may be because when the Knights of St. John came from Rhodes and Cyprus, their previous headquarters, they brought servants from those places with them. In later centuries when their raison d'etre had disappeared and they became virtual corsairs attacking and plundering Ottoman and North African shipping, the slaves they took and kept instead of selling admixed with locals.

    In a large population it wouldn't have made a difference, but this was a small, isolated island with a small population, so perhaps it did. There was a Maltese-Australian on 23andme who used to talk about this. One of his very remote ancestresses was a North African slave if I remember correctly.

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    This is one strange PCA



    in the PCA that Angela posted above, modern West Eurasians were used to construct the PCA, but then the Ancients were projected, this is very important, the position of ancients is not accurate, WHG is not closer to Basques than to Bedouins for example :)

    in this one I posted (from Lazaridis(2014)) the reverse was done, the PCA was constructed using ancients, but then modern West Eurasians were projected to it, and low and behold they're all clustered in the middle, projection is forcing the projected sample to vary by the ancestry of the samples that were used to construct the PCA, that ancestry could very well be meaningless, look how Papuans are close to Iranians ? or the Karitiana is north of Caucasus ? this is because of ASI and ANE ancestries from Iran and Caucasus.

    so when the opposite is done, it is forcing the moderns to vary by the ancestry of the ancients, it reveals that all of them, Europe and West Asia, have ancestry from all three sources.

    Europe and West Asia are a continuum, not discrete distinct entities.

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    In the following PCA (Haber) you can see virtually all modern human populations. There's no projection to cause distortion.

    It's like a tripod. You can see where admixture has taken place.

    Clearly, Armenians and Caucasus people and some Middle Easterners are very close to Europeans. My impression is that they are one stock, but some of the Middle Easterners have some admixture from Central Asia and some from Africa. That's the only difference. (I hope you can enlarge it to see the labels.) It's the North Africans and the Central Asians who pull away from the triangle at the top, which makes sense, because then you're talking about significant admixture, 20% as an average for North Africans.


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    This is a beautiful visualization of the world:

    http://www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/PCA84pops.html

    Sorry if my posts seem to deviate from the discussion on Maltese people, they're meant to address the original question of this thread, are Kurdish people European ? of course not, they're West Asian, but West Asian itself is not that different from European.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    No, they're not Asian either.

    Any PCA of Europe would show you where they plot, which is a little bit south of Sicilians.



    Most of their ancestry derives from the initial settlement of a group of Sicilians on the island. Since then there has been some admixture, but that is the base. The result is that they are a bit more North African and South-west Asian than Sicilians. However, they are NEITHER West Asian nor North African. If that much North African made you North African, then all Spaniards and Portuguese are also North African.

    We've discussed this numerous times on many threads.

    There's even a dedicated thread on their genetics.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...=Malta+settled

    Sicilians are not a good reference about being European. Maltese West Asian admixture is far more then Central Asian admixture of Turks in Turkey also Sicilian same (they are just a little bit more European)

    West Asian between 20-30%
    https://cache.eupedia.com/images/con...-admixture.gif

    South West Asian 15-20%
    https://cache.eupedia.com/images/con...-admixture.gif

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    Sicilians are not a good reference about being European. Maltese West Asian admixture is far more then Central Asian admixture of Turks in Turkey also Sicilian same (they are just a little bit more European)

    West Asian between 20-30%
    https://cache.eupedia.com/images/con...-admixture.gif

    South West Asian 15-20%
    https://cache.eupedia.com/images/con...-admixture.gif
    In your dreams, buddy. What? Having a lot of ancestry from early Anatolian farmers makes someone not European? You're more European if you have more descent from black haired, brown skinned WHG or also black haired if lighter half Armenian like Yamnaya types? Yamnaya types, by the way, whose other half is EHG which has East Asian in it.

    You're the ones who got overrun by Iran Neolithic and Central Asians. You changed massively since the early Neolithic. Italians and Spaniards preserved that initial Western Neolithic farmer heritage better. It can't be because Sicilians have more West Asian than the Germans, for example. The Greeks have even more. Maybe they're not European either? What is wrong with you people? They invented Europeanness, they along with Romans.

    Or is it because Sicilians and Southern Italians have some North African? They, and the Portuguese and Spaniards, are just as "European" as Finns, for example, or Northern Russians, both of whom have Central Asian, and both of which groups have contributed much, much, less to European civilization.

    Who are you to pontificate as to who is "European" enough? The Maltese, I'll have you know, kept the Ottomans out of Europe not only when they directly assaulted the Knights of St. John on Malta, but in many battles in subsequent times. They've more than proved their "Europeanness".

    You know, you people are going to have to make up your minds. Half the time you're trying to prove you're as European as Greeks and Southern Italians and Sicilians, and half the time you're following your "Great Leader" back into the dark ages of a Saudi like ultra-orthodoxy. Not very "European" like. I suggest going back and reading Ataturk.

    Make up your frigging minds. You can't have it both ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I don't know whether this is correct, but I was told Maltese are non-Muslim ethnic Arabs.
    Their language would be Arab.
    I would have thought that someone with good genetic knowledge like yourself would not say such absurdities.

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    So where do the contemporary Maltese come from? Research carried out in Malta points to just a few hundred miles north. A study published in the
    Annals of Human Genetics in 2004, on which Felice collaborated, looked at Y chromosome haplogroups found throughout the Mediterranean and identified common population groups. ‘Data on Mitochondrial DNA [from the ongoing Maltese Genome Project] is also nearly complete but what we have also points in the same direction [as the previous study]: that most contemporary Maltese males and females can trace their ancestry to Sicily and [Southern] Italy around 1,000 years ago,’ reveals Felice. Middle Eastern DNA, including Lebanese DNA, contributed less than 5% to today’s Maltese DNA.

    https://www.um.edu.mt/think/the-hidd...altese-genome/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    No, they're not Asian either.

    Any PCA of Europe would show you where they plot, which is a little bit south of Sicilians.



    Most of their ancestry derives from the initial settlement of a group of Sicilians on the island. Since then there has been some admixture, but that is the base. The result is that they are a bit more North African and South-west Asian than Sicilians. However, they are NEITHER West Asian nor North African. If that much North African made you North African, then all Spaniards and Portuguese are also North African.

    We've discussed this numerous times on many threads.

    There's even a dedicated thread on their genetics.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...=Malta+settled
    Very correct, and lets not forget that a good amount of the so called 'North African' component arrived through Spain and Portugal (not north Africa) as witnessed by a number of popular surnames that arrived from those regions ;)
    Last edited by Maleth; 03-08-18 at 09:20.

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