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Thread: Did you know that Kurds(Kurdish PeoPle) are Europeans?

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    there is Balcanic mark in Kurds, about 10-20% according area that misses from some tribes of Kurds in Iran

    the place that kurds are assosiated is little more west and south that they are today,

    somewhere about west from Diyarbakir

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    You are confusing concepts. Y-DNA (and mtDNA too), is only a marker wich tells the origin of an individual going thousands of years ago, but it's imposible to know with it the REAL admixture of a person. So most Kurds show Indo-European origin, but admixture analysis show that all of them mixed with other similar populations, the mentioned Asian Caucasoids. This populations are closer to Europeans than Asians, but are not the same. So it's not rare to see Kurds and other Near Easterns with European look, but this is not a prove for what you say and, of course Y-DNA and mtDNA, isn't too as I explained.

    And haplogroup T is quite apreciable in Kurds, and very linked with the Near/Middle East and Africa. There are regions in Europe with higher or more or less the same presence of this haplogroup, but are only this: regions. In all Europe haplogroup T represents just 1% according to Eupidia, you can check it in the haplogroup description.

    Geographically speaking, perhaps is posible to discuss if Kurds are European or not, but genetically speaking, Kurds are Near Easterns with substantial European ancestry, quite low compared with mainland Europeans. That's what autosomal analysis tell, there is nothing to discuss here.
    There're different kinds of haplogorup T. Like different kinds of haplogroup E.Kurdish haplogroup T is a Western Asian one. I believe Kurds have that haplogroup because of the Medes. The Medes absorbed many Kassites and Elamites. I believe that the original people that belonged to that haplogroup were the Elamites.

    And Kurds are more Indo-European people than people from Spain or other parts of Europe. Most Europeans are native to Europe, Kurds are native to Kurdistan and Kurdistan is in West Asia. Proto Indo-Europeans were West-Asian folks, like Kurds. They came from the Middle East.

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    The third president of the US, Thomas Jefferson, was in Haplogroup T.

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    How do you explain results of admixture analysis so? Very different interpretation from waht you say. Kurds have less than 40% of European, While Greeks go far from 60%, and Spaniards 90%...haplogroups don't tell the full History as I explained.

    Agree with different kinds of Haplogroup T. However, it is believed that Thomas Jefferson had Jewish background. 6% of Sephardic Jews belong to haplogrouop T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    How do you explain results of admixture analysis so? Very different interpretation from waht you say. Kurds have less than 40% of European, While Greeks go far from 60%, and Spaniards 90%...haplogroups don't tell the full History as I explained.

    Agree with different kinds of Haplogroup T. However, it is believed that Thomas Jefferson had Jewish background. 6% of Sephardic Jews belong to haplogrouop T.
    Kurdish MtDNA is distinguish from the European, Caucasian and West Asian population. Kurdish MtDNA is very unique one and shows some parallels only with Indo-European western Persians and some folks in the Caucasus.

    Greeks, Spaniards live in Europe, of course most of them are native Europeans and some of them are mixed with North Africans. Kurds are a (missing) link between Europe and Asia. Kurds are native to their homeland, which is in Asia and Greeks and Spaniards are native to their homeland, which is in Europe.

    I don't consider Spaniards as Indo-Europeans by race. They're only Indo-Europeans by language. But Kurds are Indo-Europeans by race and language.
    Last edited by Goga; 10-07-11 at 01:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    6% of Sephardic Jews belong to haplogrouop T.
    So what? 13% of Sephardic Jews belongs to haplogroup R1b.

    Btw, according the Jewish, they're originally from the northern parts of Mesopotamia. I don't know if their haplogroup T is the same as a Kurdish one, but they found very much of Kurdish haplogoup T in places where the ancient Medes lived, like eastern Kurdistan and Azerbaijan in the north around the Caucasus mountains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Kurdish MtDNA is distinguish from European, Caucasian and West Asian population. Kurdish MtDNA is very unique one and shows some parallels only with Indo-European western Persians and some folks in the Caucasus.

    Greeks, Spaniards live in Europe, of course most of them are native Europeans and some of them are mixed with North Africans. Kurds are a (missing) link between Europe and Asia. Kurds are native to their homeland, which is in Asia and Greeks and Spaniards are native to their homeland, which is in Europe.

    I don't consider Spaniards as Indo-Europeans by race. They're only Indo-Europeans by language. But Kurds are Indo-Europeans by race and language.

    I agree with you with 1 condition
    the thread sais Kurds = Europeans
    not Kurds = IndoEuropeans

    nobody denies the IE party of curds,
    it is another story the E and another the IE

    besides who is European is another story,

    why r1b and r1a can be considered European and not M-78 or E-V13?
    one came from east and north asia, the other came from south so?
    the case of kurds is 20% mediterranean and in some western tribes in Diyarbakir i think have big I Y-Dna
    a possible assimilation of phrygians and west minor asia I people under an army created to served a persian king?
    Skudet skudra people that moved to asia to serve Persian mixed with carduchoi?
    or north pontic scythians ?

    besides the problem of the one who post the thread is obvius,


    Quote Originally Posted by KurdishAryan View Post
    lol you guys posted so much .. :)

    and i say only; kurdish dna s are lile spanish greek and itally dna s ..and do you think that all europeans have blond hair and blue eyes.. thats lol see portugal..see spain see italy seegreece all that are like kurds... so kurds have same dna s like these.. and kurds are old european and see thee map this is true europe , and dont be worry because of islam ,kurds have not only islam religion lol so you can accept kurds as european .i know because of islam you europeasn cant accept turkey ,too : )) if there would stay an christ. state you would accept it in the eu ,so quickly..

    see a short video ..kurdish europeans.. :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Kn6u..._order&list=UL

    and this map is map from europe ,,and there you cant see iraq iran or syria.. here: http://www.eurominority.eu/images/po...ions-grand.jpg and see euro. people incl. kurds http://www.eurominority.eu/version/e...alpha-list.asp and thats shows all.. and thsdi website created by true europeans.. and we cant forget that a lot of kurds were assimilated by arabs turks and persian .



    we have a clear misunderstanding of what is IE and what is European
    Carduchoi or corduanes or gordianes is an ancient indoiranian tribe that moved from phrygia to persia and from armenia to syria and cillikia,
    they were always a moving camp of warriors, bow users
    we can found in skudra case

    there is no doubt that are west asian, middle east people, with mix of I Y-Dna
    now if IE = European is another case,
    Last edited by iapetoc; 10-07-11 at 03:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iapetoc View Post
    I agree with you with 1 condition
    the thread sais Kurds = Europeans
    not Kurds = IndoEuropeans

    nobody denies the IE party of curds,
    it is another story the E and another the IE

    besides who is European is another story,

    why r1b and r1a can be considered European and not M-78 or E-V13?
    one came from east and north asia, the other came from south so?
    the case of kurds is 20% mediterranean and in some western tribes in Diyarbakir i think have big I Y-Dna

    besides the problem of the one who post the thread is obvius,
    You're right! Spaniards are native Europeans with a admixture with North Africans and Greeks are native Europeans with very much admixure with North Africans and West Asians.

    Kurds are absolutely NOT European, and they were never European. Kurds are native to their homeland, Kurdistan. And Kurdistan IS in Asia! Kurds are Indo-Europeans, because they speak an IE language. And I believe that the proto Indo-European speakers came from the place which is nowadays occupied by the modern Kurds.


    r1b and r1a is not only European but also Asiatic. Haplogorups r1b and r1a are archaic Euro-Asiatic haplogroups that are spread all over the place in the northern parts of Eurasia, from Europe to Central Asia!

    There's not such thing as an 'European', 'African' or 'Asian' haplogorup. ALL Homo sapien haplogroups overlap each other in these continents!
    Sure some regions have their own defined haplgroups that are evolved from archaic Homo sapien haplogorups like R, J, E etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by iapetoc View Post
    Indian genes
    ????

    Indian genes? Can you describe these Indian genes. Never heard of them...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    ????

    Indian genes? Can you describe these Indian genes. Never heard of them...
    sory wrong expression,
    and i have to correct it.

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    Ok I understand. We are absolutly agree Goga.

    Also, keep in mind that talk about "pure" Europeans is not real. Spaniards have little North African admixture, while Northern Europeans have West Asian in them. Only the Basques and some Baltic people will become really 100% European.

    I know that haplogroups are quite diverse in Sepahrdic Jews. However, haplogroup T is rare in Europe, and a 6% in Sephardics Jews is very significant. It's not the same in Northern Europe, but a person with substantial Southern European ancestry for example, has more posibilities of jewish ancestry carrying this marker than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    haplogroup T is rare in Europe, and a 6% in Sephardics Jews is very significant. It's not the same in Northern Europe, but a person with substantial Southern European ancestry for example, has more posibilities of jewish ancestry carrying this marker than others.
    Archaic haplogroup T is not rare in Europe, it is spread all over the Europe! According to many scientists even the archaic haplogroup T originated in Asia, where the Elamites and the Persians lived.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    Also, keep in mind that talk about "pure" Europeans is not real. Spaniards have little North African admixture, while Northern Europeans have West Asian in them. Only the Basques and some Baltic people will become really 100% European.
    Yes haplogroups N and Q are native to the Baltics. Like they're native to Central Asian Turkic folks. Haplogroups R1, N and Q are native to the northern part of the Eurasian continent, from Europe to Central Asia!

    Btw, did you know that Basques were related to the Etruscans? The Etruscans were West Asians. And Basques show some similarities with peoples in the Caucasus. Maybe those Basques are from the Caucasus???

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    The map you post of haplogroup T is wrong. Wikipedia (where the map comes from) is not reliable talking about genetics. Also reading the explanation they give it's easy to see some contradictions. Frequencies showed here in Eupidia are better, just think that more than 20% of haplogroup T around Central Europe is absurd...there is a lot of contrast comparing with Eupidia, I don't give any credit to wikipedia in this concrete issue.

    I read something about the Etrucans and Basques, but don't know so much about it. What I know is that most of them are shown 100% European in admixture analysis, composed allmost entirely of West European and Mediterranean component. Some Iberians also can show similar proportions considering that they are more or less the same ethinc group, but they are a minority.

    And if we check Lithuanians, for sure we'll find quite of them almost 100% European, of course much more Northern European than the Basques.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    And if we check Lithuanians, for sure we'll find quite of them almost 100% European, of course much more Northern European than the Basques.
    Yes, because their subclade of the more archaic haplogroup of N is native to Europe! 42% of Lithuanians belong to n1. So haplogroup N is native to Europe and Northern Asia (among Turkic folks). The same thing is with r1, haplogorup r1 is native to Europe AND Asia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    The map you post of haplogroup T is wrong. Wikipedia (where the map comes from) is not reliable talking about genetics. Also reading the explanation they give it's easy to see some contradictions. Frequencies showed here in Eupidia are better, just think that more than 20% of haplogroup T around Central Europe is absurd...there is a lot of contrast comparing with Eupidia, I don't give any credit to wikipedia in this concrete issue.
    Since the last time I checked Arabs (Semitic by language) don't have that much haplogroup T. Most Arabs belong to J and E!

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    I think most Lithuanians belong to haplogroup N1c1 like the Finns. I find this subclade very interesting, but I don't want to deviate the actual thread. I posted my opinion in this post: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...-and-the-Finns

    If you know additional information would be good to post there too.

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    I'm out, haplogroup I in Kurds is a West Asian component.

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    I don't know what you mean. Haplogroup I (Y-DNA) originated in Europe. If you talk about haplogroup I (mtDNA), the thing perhaps goes different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    I don't know what you mean. Haplogroup I (Y-DNA) originated in Europe. If you talk about haplogroup I (mtDNA), the thing perhaps goes different.
    You don't believe in Y-DNA:
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...011#post375011

    then why do you participate in this forum?

    Wait, I understand it yet, in the case of haplogroup E-M81 (present in Spain and from berber origin) does not mean anything, but when it comes to other haplogroups you are very interested. It's funny.

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    What are you saying t.r.o.l.l.? I'm not denying any haplogroup origin. According to Eupidia haplogroup I (Y-DNA), originated in Europe, not in West Asia. Considering that haplogroup I (mtDNA) probably originated in the Caucasus, it makes more sense

    What is your objection? don't you see you are ridiculous proving your silly agenda? XD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    I don't know what you mean. Haplogroup I (Y-DNA) originated in Europe. If you talk about haplogroup I (mtDNA), the thing perhaps goes different.
    Haplogroup I in Kurds is an Asian marker. It is in Asia, isn't it? And it has been in Asia for thousands of years. So it's Asian! Like some subclades in Ossetians, some other folks of Caucasus and some West Persians.

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    Well, we should see if their subclades really originated in Asia or not, I really ignore this since never heard or read about it. Can you provide more information about the subclades?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Haplogroup I in Kurds is an Asian marker. It is in Asia, isn't it? And it has been in Asia for thousands of years. So it's Asian! Like some subclades in Ossetians, some other folks of Caucasus and some West Persians.
    "Thousands" = maybe 3000. I suppose that's made it old enough to have certain sub-sub-clades becoming "Asian," but we have yet to find an Asian-origin Haplogroup I SNP as far as I know. Still, I think most here would say that European R1b is "Asian-origin," so it's probably fairer to call Asian I "European-origin."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    Well, we should see if their subclades really originated in Asia or not, I really ignore this since never heard or read about it. Can you provide more information about the subclades?
    There is absolutely NO proof that the archaic haplogroup I (M170) is from Europe. Many West Asians have that marker. Many scientists think it is from West Asia splited from West Asian IJ. But these are all theories…

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