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Thread: Did you know that Kurds(Kurdish PeoPle) are Europeans?

  1. #101
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    31% !? That's way to HIGH! I believe it is maybe around 5%, maybe less. Like there is maybe 5% of Iranic (Aryan) DNA in native EU population.

    IF there is some European DNA in Kurds then I think it's due to some gene flow of European individuals that migrated into Kurdistan and NOT because of mass migration.

    But, this is pseudoscience. I don't know how people can calculate such percentages. You can't say somebody is 40, 50, 60 etc. % something. That's impossible and nonsense.

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    Sometimes the averages change depending on the type of analysis Dienekes's is doing. K=10 for example shows less European score in average than this one, but I don't think Kurds would get less than 15%.

    I don't think it is exagerated. Perhaps taking the Near East as reference, Kurds seem to have substantial European ancestry, but not if we compare with Europe, starting for Cypriots and Greeks.

    Why not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Kurds are native to their homeland.
    Which is where? It seems to me that Kurds come from a heterogenous background, with much of it traditionally nomadic, and not really anchored to a single homeland like some other groups in the region (like Assyrians and Jews). The Kurds probably have areas that they've lived in for a long time, but it certainly doesn't include the full extent of modern Kurdistan. For example, Kurds didn't even become the dominant ethnic group in Arbil until the Middle Ages (or later? That's when Assyrian dominance decreased), and now it's the capital of Iraqi Kurdistan.

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    Edit..............

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    Dienekes is not a scientist, but an amateur. The true scientist will never burn his fingers with such nonsense.

    You can't say somebody is 100% European and somebody is just 75% European. Greeks are 100% European! Because their homeland is in Europe!

    Kurds are native to West Asia. They are 100% West Asian. Their DNA is and all their haplogroups are West Asian. Of course genetically Kurds show some resembles with Europeans, because Kurds and Europeans are Homo sapiens! And all Homo sapiens have the same origin!

    Haplogroups go beyond continents. Haplogorups are like AIR, they don't know and have any boundaries.

    Cypriots and Greeks are native Europeans, but their DNA shows some resembles with Northern Africans and Levantine Arabs. Greeks are more related to Africans & (Levantine) Arabs than to Kurds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Which is where? It seems to me that Kurds come from a heterogenous background, with much of it traditionally nomadic, and not really anchored to a single homeland like some other groups in the region (like Assyrians and Jews). The Kurds probably have areas that they've lived in for a long time, but it certainly doesn't include the full extent of modern Kurdistan. For example, Kurds didn't even become the dominant ethnic group in Arbil until the Middle Ages (or later? That's when Assyrian dominance decreased), and now it's the capital of Iraqi Kurdistan.
    Kurdistan!

    If I were you, i would stop reading Armenian, Assyrian, Arab, Persian and Turkish propaganda sources. These folks try to destroy Kurds and their history...

    Arbil (Hewler) was once a capital of Gutium!!!! Before Assyria ever existed. Gutians are some of Kurdish ancestors.

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    No Goga. To be a "native European" does not necesarily mean you are 100% European at all effects. Admixture exist, and in Greeks or Cypriots more since they carry quite West Asian with them. Even if you check Basques, not all of them become 100% European, and the same happens with Baltics. Both are the most Europeans genetically speaking, but not all of them get this numbers.

    That's how it works. Talk about pure individuals it's almost always unreal.

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    You don't understand me. Nobody is pure. Greeks and Germans are not pure, but they are 100% European. Kurds aín't no pure folks, but they are 100% West Asian!

    Once again, you don't understand me. But it's ok with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julia90 View Post
    georgian footballplayers













    lol see my first post and these : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skbbT0kKPNs

    2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHmC2uWESEM

    3. http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...ish+aryan&aq=f

    and see : http://www.eurominority.eu/version/e...alpha-list.asp

    ans some pics.. :

    form north kurdistan (turkish kurdistan) :

    KIDS from diyarbakir, kurdistan










    from southkurdistan (iraqi kurdistan) :











    MORE HERE : http://imageshack.us/g/84/aryany.jpg/

    and we are never westasian D , but now kurds live in §middle east" but unofficial in eu area too. see here :

    http://www.eurominority.eu/images/po...ions-grand.jpg

    and : http://www.eurominority.eu/version/e...alpha-list.asp

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    But we were talking about genetics, and the reports are not bad, but not perfect. A margin of error it's always posible, although there is no catastrofee at all. If you mean 100% West Asian or 100% European for being living thousands of years in the same place, well, I can understand it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Kurdistan!

    If I were you, i would stop reading Armenian, Assyrian, Arab, Persian and Turkish propaganda sources. These folks try to destroy Kurds and their history...

    Arbil (Hewler) was once a capital of Gutium!!!! Before Assyria ever existed. Gutians are some of Kurdish ancestors.
    Well, I suspect that you're right that Gutians are some of the ancestors of the Kurds... in fact, the modern ethnic group with the most Gutian ancestors may well be Kurds. But what's the real history of Arbil as part of Gutium? Wasn't it just part of it briefly ca. 2000 BC? Whereas the Sumerians had it first, then the Akkadians, then the Assyrians, then the Persians... certainly, the city was speaking Syriac when the Timurids destroyed it. After that, the modern Kurdish ethnicity settled, which is why, today, it's such an integral part of Kurdistan. But to call Arbil part of the Kurdish homeland, to me, implies that the Kurds are only an ethnicity that's existed since the Middle Ages (which may be true to some extent).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    The real average is 31%. I did not calculate because I just used my eyes (see the population portrait), and failed a little xD.

    I don't see the Maltese average, but I think it's higher than 31%. Cypriots score more than 45% for example.
    I think he Maltese are ~ 36%, last time I checked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    No Goga. To be a "native European" does not necesarily mean you are 100% European at all effects. Admixture exist, and in Greeks or Cypriots more since they carry quite West Asian with them. Even if you check Basques, not all of them become 100% European, and the same happens with Baltics. Both are the most Europeans genetically speaking, but not all of them get this numbers.

    That's how it works. Talk about pure individuals it's almost always unreal.
    Lithuania has the highest Eurogenes European scores (99 + %).

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    Some Lithuanians really came from another planet. There is one Dodecad wich I suspect it's from Lithuania, scoring enormous European proportions, with 100% total Europe, and only 3% Southern/Mediterranean. Check DOD655; incredible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Well, I suspect that you're right that Gutians are some of the ancestors of the Kurds... in fact, the modern ethnic group with the most Gutian ancestors may well be Kurds. But what's the real history of Arbil as part of Gutium? Wasn't it just part of it briefly ca. 2000 BC? Whereas the Sumerians had it first, then the Akkadians, then the Assyrians, then the Persians... certainly, the city was speaking Syriac when the Timurids destroyed it. After that, the modern Kurdish ethnicity settled, which is why, today, it's such an integral part of Kurdistan. But to call Arbil part of the Kurdish homeland, to me, implies that the Kurds are only an ethnicity that's existed since the Middle Ages (which may be true to some extent).
    I don't believe in such provocations. Akkadians, Summerians, Assyrians, Persians, Turks whatever. I've never seen their ancient maps of their hypothetical empires and I don't believe in hypothetical modern maps that were drawn recently by Assyrians, Armenians, Turks, Arabs whoever about their hypothetical ancient empires.

    All I know is that Kurds (Iranic folks) founded their cities (from Amed, Hewler, Kirkuk, Mehabad to Kermanshah) many thousands years ago and Kurds (still Iranic folks) do STILL live in their ancient cities thousands years later. The population of Kurdish cities is still a majority of Kurds. And their cities are in West Asia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julia90 View Post
    but their territory seems to protend too much into saudi arabia
    have no oppinion about your other comments but....





    ?

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    Somehow I have got the feeling that some Eurocentric folks like to think that the Aryan (or even Indo-European) heritage of Kurds is from Europe (European) and the rest is backwarded Middle-Eastern.
    They try to incorporate Aryan history into the European heritage. And try to make Kurds not the real descendants (children) of their Iranic ancestors. It like that they want to incorporate Kurdish history into Europe, but at the same time they don't want anything to do with those 'dirty' backwarded subhuman folks from the Middle-Eastern.

    I'm sorry to break your heart, but Kurdish Aryan (Iranic) and Indo-European heritage is West Asian too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    According to Dodecad, Kurds have European ancestry. It's less than 40%, but it's detected. I wouldn't give too much importance to this, the rest is almost enterelly West Asian and Southwest Asian. There are a few Kurds tested, who knows if it's posible to find Kurds without any European ancestry, or much lower than the actual samples.

    Its all depending on what you call "European" and what "West Asian" Genes. Because the "West and South Westasian components are also native to Europe since millennia. The West Asian component more than the Southwest Asian. Also we can highly doubt that the "Mediterranean" component evolved in Europe or is only native to this Region. It all depends on what we call "European" and what "West Asian" However the main differences between West Asians and Europeans are not the components but the frequency of components. In Europe you have more of the East/Westeuropean while in West Asia more of the West Asian component .

    The Xing et al (Iraqi) Kurds have on average this components. I will only list the components which have at least 1%

    41,8% West Asian
    21,5% Mediterranean
    14,7% Southwest Asian
    10,3% East/Westeuropean
    9,0% South Asian (Ani type)
    1.0% Northeast Asian

    And we need to take in account that this is the most Southern part of kurdish areas where Kurds border Iraqi Arabs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Somehow I have got the feeling that some Eurocentric folks like to think that the Aryan (or even Indo-European) heritage of Kurds is from Europe (European) and the rest is backwarded Middle-Eastern.
    They try to incorporate Aryan history into the European heritage. And try to make Kurds not the real descendants (children) of their Iranic ancestors. It like that they want to incorporate Kurdish history into Europe, but at the same time they don't want anything to do with those 'dirty' backwarded subhuman folks from the Middle-Eastern.
    actually to be precise we can assume that Indo Europeans belonged mainly to West Asian and North European.
    Last edited by Alan; 15-07-11 at 01:38.

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    Sorry Goga, but I think you are exaggerating. Europeans have Middle Eastern ancestry and Kurds have European ancestry, ¿where do you see the problem?. What it cares is the largest component genetically speaking, the history, and the way a population feels.

    Kurds are alright, they're still unique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    (like Assyrians and Jews).
    Really bad examples imo. Jews are known to have lived almost everywhere in the Near East the same with Assyrians which originated in what is today Jordania and conquered parts of Hurrian lands. However now they are extinct. No one can claim about his folks to be "pure" and having only one ancestor. Every nation we know today have at least 2 or 3 ancestors from ancient times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    have no oppinion about your other comments but....





    ?
    For anyone curious, that map is from Ralph Peters, shown here and described here. I suppose it's a decent map to approximate the extent of certain minorities, although it has some important inaccuracies (no Assyrians, Lebanon annexing the Alawites for no apparent reason, etc.). It's quite generous to the Kurds but yeah, there's no way Kurdistan stretches to Saudi Arabia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    Sorry Goga, but I think you are exaggerating. Europeans have Middle Eastern ancestry and Kurds have European ancestry, ¿where do you see the problem?. What it cares is the largest component genetically speaking, the history, and the way a population feels.

    Kurds are alright, they're still unique.
    Kurds are a missing link between political West and East, but in general they are West Asian because the 'birthplace' of their ethnicity is in West Asia.

    All Homo sapien ethnicities are cool and deserve respect, dignity and space to be free no matter they are from Africa or China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Well, I suspect that you're right that Gutians are some of the ancestors of the Kurds... in fact, the modern ethnic group with the most Gutian ancestors may well be Kurds. But what's the real history of Arbil as part of Gutium? Wasn't it just part of it briefly ca. 2000 BC? Whereas the Sumerians had it first, then the Akkadians, then the Assyrians, then the Persians... certainly,
    to be precise the first People living in Arbil were the Hurrian which called this Region Urbilium. Later the Gutians build the citadel what is some kind of "Kurgan" it seems. And THAN the Assyrians came and renamed it to Arbela. The Land belongs to the People who live there since centuries. So Kurds and the today minority of Aramaic/Neo Assyrian People which exist there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Really bad examples imo. Jews are known to have lived almost everywhere in the Near East the same with Assyrians which originated in what is today Jordania and conquered parts of Hurrian lands. However now they are extinct. No one can claim about his folks to be "pure" and having only one ancestor. Every nation we know today have at least 2 or 3 ancestors from ancient times.
    You're right to a large degree... there are no "pure" descendants of the ancient Jews or ancient Assyrians (although modern Jews and Assyrians, respectively, probably have the highest percentage of ancestors who were members of those ancient ethnicities). Assyrians certainly have a lot of Aramaean ancestors, for example, especially those living in Syria (although "Syrian Arabs" may have them beat when it comes to direct descent, I'm not sure). But the point was that they both have conscious homelands that they've anchored themselves to... Israel for the Jews and the "Assyrian Triangle" for the Assyrians.

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