Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29

Thread: " what have I done bad, mami? "

  1. #1
    Marquis Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Carlitos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-09-10
    Location
    Occident.
    Posts
    857
    Points
    7,499
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,499, Level: 25
    Level completed: 90%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E1b1b1a3 V22+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c

    Ethnic group
    Ethnic group of those who are going to die.
    Country: Spain



    " what have I done bad, mami? "



    Red sticker for a 5-year-old child for Catalan does not speak in the court

    A school in Sitges has put a sign in red in the records of the child for not speaking in Catalan in the court during the playtime.

    The junking of Spanish language and of the people who uses it in Catalonia begins from the infancy. This way it has happened in a center of Sitges, as it denounces Ciudadanos (Political Party), after making her proper his parents.

    A school of Sitges has put a red mark in the records of a five-year-old child for not speaking " in the transport language ", such and since he gathers ABC. In fact, on having come to house with the notes, the pupil knowing that this mark was slightly negative asked: what have I done bad, mami? Why have they made me a sticker red? ".





    (In red) Participation in conversations using the transport language of the school center.


    And the fact is that the document that the small one took to house values the level of verbal language for several facets as the oral expression or the pronunciation, which they are evaluated by marks by the colors of a semaphore.
    In this sense, it is the paragraph three where the child saw the red sign. This point values if the child " takes part in conversations using the transport language of the center ". This situation infuriated the parents, who denounced the situation before Ciudadanos (political Party).

    The spokesman of Citizens, Jordi Cañas, there have denounced that " we do not want that any child is marked by a sticker in red for speaking in Castilian, we do not want a community in which the people indicate you for the language that you speak ".
    This way, he insists that " the parents must have the right to choose the language in which they study his children and the pigeonhole to do this election in the preinscription does not exist ". Also, he thinks that " the languages are rights of the citizens and not of the school centers ".

    http://www.libertaddigital.com/socie...io-1276414551/

  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-11-11
    Location
    Somewhere in Spain
    Posts
    139

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Ethnic group
    Spanish (from Spain of course, not Mexican and such)
    Country: Spain - Andorra



    1 members found this post helpful.
    People who want these things to continue happening must vote for PSOE.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveThree Friends5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Knovas's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-05-11
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,444
    Points
    9,065
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,065, Level: 28
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 285
    Overall activity: 4.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1b1a

    Ethnic group
    Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    This is not a global problem in Catalonia, only a few schools presented situations like this. Ciudadanos, as usual, use things like this for its own benefit, trying to make belive this is a problem you find everywhere.

    Of course, this is completely false, and only 4 charlatans who vote them and the PP think Castilian is pursued in Catalonia.

    And by the way, PSOE is the same bad for Catalonia as the PP. Those who want this to "continue happening" (LOL), for sure will not vote the PSOE.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Wilhelm's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-09
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,661
    Points
    15,281
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,281, Level: 37
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 369
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-S26
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberians
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    I don't understand why some people living in Catalonia don't want to learn Catalan, it is not respectful and is a sign of not wanting to integrate. Simply.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveThree Friends5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Knovas's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-05-11
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,444
    Points
    9,065
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,065, Level: 28
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 285
    Overall activity: 4.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1b1a

    Ethnic group
    Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    That's another point I fully agree.

    And of course, Castilian and Catalan can stay together without problems, and that's exactly how it works. Those who pretend to make believe another thing, as I said, are nothing but dishonest charlatan liars.

  6. #6
    Elite member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Cimmerianbloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-06-11
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    332
    Points
    4,156
    Level
    18
    Points: 4,156, Level: 18
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 94
    Overall activity: 8.0%


    Ethnic group
    Latin-Germanic
    Country: Germany - Berlin



    It is in the child's interest to learn and speak catalan if living there. Mastering catalan can really make a difference when looking for a job, especially in well sought after Generalitat or other government jobs. Some parents are just too stupid to understand that. A lot of foreign nationals from South America resent that too, but few make the effort to learn it and therefore deprive themselves from better job and career opportunities.

  7. #7
    Elite member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Cimmerianbloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-06-11
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    332
    Points
    4,156
    Level
    18
    Points: 4,156, Level: 18
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 94
    Overall activity: 8.0%


    Ethnic group
    Latin-Germanic
    Country: Germany - Berlin



    For clarity, "transport language" has to be translated as vehicular language, as opposed to vernacular (used by the local population). That means kids are allowed to use spanish, but isn't the point of a language course to encourage the kid to use its target language? It all makes sense from a linguistic and teaching point of view to me. Two remarks; first, the original article was published in the ABC newspaper, a pro-PP publication, at the fringe of the right political spectrum, barely objective point of view though. Second, the last phrase of the text reads " I show interest in learning the english language"...

  8. #8
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-11-11
    Location
    Somewhere in Spain
    Posts
    139

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Ethnic group
    Spanish (from Spain of course, not Mexican and such)
    Country: Spain - Andorra



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cimmerianbloke View Post
    For clarity, "transport language" has to be translated as vehicular language, as opposed to vernacular (used by the local population). That means kids are allowed to use spanish, but isn't the point of a language course to encourage the kid to use its target language? It all makes sense from a linguistic and teaching point of view to me. Two remarks; first, the original article was published in the ABC newspaper, a pro-PP publication, at the fringe of the right political spectrum, barely objective point of view though. Second, the last phrase of the text reads " I show interest in learning the english language"...
    Spanish must be co-vehicular at schools along with Catalan . 100% immersion in Catalan like regional government is doing in public schools right now is illegal. But in Spain people are used to politicians acting illegaly, they have accepted they can't expect another behaviour from them. Spain is not a country where Law is strictly obeyed. I agree that purely for linguistic purposes if you want to learn Catalan perfectly it's better to study all the subjects in Catalan, but I don't think the goal of most students in Catalonia is to master the catalan language, just to pass their exams, and if it's easier and more productive too for them to study let's say Maths in Spanish, let it be so. There is no need to add extra difficulties to students in a Spanish region like Catalonia where students failure rate ranks among the highest in Spain. Furthermore, if one buys the immersion argument , then considering that since not all people speak Spanish natively one could also argue that native Catalan speakers should study all subjects in Spanish in order for them to master the Spanish language. That is, immersion should be bi-directional, not only for native Spanish speakers. In the end it's more important for native Catalan speakers to speak properly an important language like Spanish than learning Catalan for native Spanish speakers in Catalonia who after leaving the education system won't use Catalan anymore unless they want to become civil servants of the Catalan regional government.

  9. #9
    Elite member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Cimmerianbloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-06-11
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    332
    Points
    4,156
    Level
    18
    Points: 4,156, Level: 18
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 94
    Overall activity: 8.0%


    Ethnic group
    Latin-Germanic
    Country: Germany - Berlin



    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    In the end it's more important for native Catalan speakers to speak properly an important language like Spanish than learning Catalan for native Spanish speakers in Catalonia who after leaving the education system won't use Catalan anymore unless they want to become civil servants of the Catalan regional government.
    That shows how bad you know Catalonia. To start with, all Catalan speakers I ever met also spoke Spanish. All of them, not one exception. To follow, Catalan is spoken everywhere in Catalonia. If you haven't heard it, I just can not take you seriously. Spanish is taught in Catalonia as a foreign language, and that is what really bothers every castillan speaker there. Spanish is not an endangered language in Catalonia, even though some political parties try to convince the rest of Spain of the contrary.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-11-11
    Location
    Somewhere in Spain
    Posts
    139

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Ethnic group
    Spanish (from Spain of course, not Mexican and such)
    Country: Spain - Andorra



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cimmerianbloke View Post
    That shows how bad you know Catalonia. To start with, all Catalan speakers I ever met also spoke Spanish. All of them, not one exception. To follow, Catalan is spoken everywhere in Catalonia. If you haven't heard it, I just can not take you seriously. Spanish is taught in Catalonia as a foreign language, and that is what really bothers every castillan speaker there. Spanish is not an endangered language in Catalonia, even though some political parties try to convince the rest of Spain of the contrary.
    That they speak Spanish does not mean they use it well, specially when written. You as a foreigner won't notice that just by visiting Barcelona for a few days. Take for instance a native Spanish speaker in Catalonia. Granted he will speak Spanish to you even if he never studied Spanish at school, but he may not be able to write it properly because hours of study in Spanish in Catalonia are not sufficient. Of course we bother about that because it is illegal as I said earlier and provokes functionally illiterate people (let me remark again that Catalonia posesses one of highest student failure rate in Spain and that most of those students are native Spanish speakers speaks a lot) . Also Spanish is the language spoken natively by a majority of Catalans, so teaching Spanish as a foreign language just like English is like saying those Catalans are foreigners in their own land.
    Last edited by Franco; 20-11-11 at 01:19.

  11. #11
    Elite member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Cimmerianbloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-06-11
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    332
    Points
    4,156
    Level
    18
    Points: 4,156, Level: 18
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 94
    Overall activity: 8.0%


    Ethnic group
    Latin-Germanic
    Country: Germany - Berlin



    You actually contradict yourself here. Spanish is not ostracized in Catalonia, but Catalan is the vehicular language of the autonomous government, and teaching is donr through Catalan. I am sure Madrid can open a couple of schools where kids would be taught exclusively through Spanish, most Catalans would not care. On the other hand, if Catalans living in Madrid would complain about not having thr opportunity to have their kids taught in Catalan, I can very well imagine the reaction of Madrilens: "go back to Catalunya if you want to speak Catalan".
    Here is an article published some time ago that can give you another way of seeing how Catalans see the central government. That will help you understand that they think they give enough to Madrid and want their culture left in peace.

    http://quiron.wordpress.com/2010/09/...la-vanguardia/

  12. #12
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,795
    Points
    24,492
    Level
    47
    Points: 24,492, Level: 47
    Level completed: 95%, Points required for next Level: 58
    Overall activity: 68.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-BY7449*>YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    The Catalan politicians impose the Catalan, but they take his children to schools of other languages

    They impose the Catalan, but they take to his children to schools of other languages High charges of the PSC, advocates of the linguistic immersion, have his children registered in private centers on Mondays LVL, February 15, 2010, 11:29 Madrid. - Many of the Catalan politicians who defend the linguistic obligatory immersion in Catalan takes to his children to schools deprived of elite in those who do not apply to themselves these measurements

    José Montilla, ex-president of the Generalitat, has his triplets registered in the select German School, where they learn four languages

    Also other charges of the PSC like Manuela de Madre, vice-president of the formation, José Zaragoza, secretary of organization, Joaquim Nadal, Catalan adviser of Territorial Politics, and Mar Serna, adviser of Work, take his children to private schools that remain excluded from the obligation of that the Catalan is a transport language.

    This fact does not affect only the members of the Catalan Government, Artur Mas, leader of CiU and Catalan prime minister sends his children to the French Lyceum, the same one in which they study the shoots of Joan Laporta. The president of the Football Club Barcelona achieved recently that the Catalan was named official language of the club and showed time and again his support to speeches independentistas. “ Montilla imposes the monolingüismo in the public schools and turns into guinea pigs the children of the others while theirs learn four languages.

    Other politicians who take his children to private centers are Cristina Garmendia, José Blanco, Mercedes Cabrera or José Bono. The minister of Science and Innovation has his children registered in the school San Patricio of the quarter of Madrid of The Moral; José Blanco takes them to the British Institute whereas Mercedes Cabrera has them inscribed in the School Study of Madrid.

    Numerous political and professional persons in charge have denounced this fact. Carmen Guaita, state person in charge of Communication of the teaching syndicate ANPE, showed that “ the political persons in charge have to guarantee to the society the same education of maximum quality that they want for his children ”.

    http://www.balearesliberal.com/index...arios&Itemid=1

  13. #13
    Elite member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Cimmerianbloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-06-11
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    332
    Points
    4,156
    Level
    18
    Points: 4,156, Level: 18
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 94
    Overall activity: 8.0%


    Ethnic group
    Latin-Germanic
    Country: Germany - Berlin



    Montilla is from Andalusia and was an embarrassment, as the whole tripartit government of those years. Again, Catalan was spoken in catalonia well before Spanish, in fact Catalan medieval litterature was already found all over the Mediterranea thanks to the Catalan trading posts. From that historic point of view, Castillan is an alien language in Catalonia and native Spanish speakers should then be bilingual. If I could learn catalan at 28 in less than a year, I can not understand why mot people can't.
    Again, our points of view are opposite, and I don't intend to try to convince you I am right.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,795
    Points
    24,492
    Level
    47
    Points: 24,492, Level: 47
    Level completed: 95%, Points required for next Level: 58
    Overall activity: 68.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-BY7449*>YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by Cimmerianbloke View Post
    Montilla is from Andalusia and was an embarrassment, as the whole tripartit government of those years. Again, Catalan was spoken in catalonia well before Spanish, in fact Catalan medieval litterature was already found all over the Mediterranea thanks to the Catalan trading posts. From that historic point of view, Castillan is an alien language in Catalonia and native Spanish speakers should then be bilingual. If I could learn catalan at 28 in less than a year, I can not understand why mot people can't.
    Again, our points of view are opposite, and I don't intend to try to convince you I am right.
    Spanish is the common language of all the Spanish. In the ancient evolution of the Castilian all the Spanish regions inform the modern Spanish also the Catalan region. But the origin of the nationalism regionalist in Spain is in the Central European nationalism, a ridiculous import for Mister Robert in Catalonia and for Sabino Arana in Basque Country, they heard bells and exported these ideas to his regions, now thousands of young people are indoctrinated in Spain with historical, social and economic lies and the school is fundamental for the above mentioned indoctrination, they go so far as to be modified and alter the textbooks or to sanctioning the children in some schools for speaking Spanish during the hour of playtime. Also they are sanctioned to the commerce that they label in Spanish. The languages are so that the people understand herself and not to separate and to discriminate.

    If you are a South American it is probable that he believes that the fault of all his evil comes from Spain, an argument that Catalan nationalist will make him syntonize with the nationalism, somehow the hate generates hate.

    "What have I done bad, mami?"
    Last edited by Carlos; 27-11-11 at 06:48.

  15. #15
    Elite member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Cimmerianbloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-06-11
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    332
    Points
    4,156
    Level
    18
    Points: 4,156, Level: 18
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 94
    Overall activity: 8.0%


    Ethnic group
    Latin-Germanic
    Country: Germany - Berlin



    As for Franco, all I can tell you is that we have opposing points of view, and that yours is as valid as mine because they are based on our respective experiences.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,795
    Points
    24,492
    Level
    47
    Points: 24,492, Level: 47
    Level completed: 95%, Points required for next Level: 58
    Overall activity: 68.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-BY7449*>YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by Cimmerianbloke View Post
    As for Franco, all I can tell you is that we have opposing points of view, and that yours is as valid as mine because they are based on our respective experiences.
    Franco protected and promoted the economy of Catalonia and Basque Country and also of Madrid. He wants to say that if Andalusia or Galicia for example wanted to buy insecticide to Germany or another European country, they could not, had to buy insecticide of Catalonia that was turning out to be more expensive and of worse quality than German.

    It is an example of as Franco delivered to Catalonia and Basque Country the only magnificent market, that of the whole Spain, for alone, like that them anyone becomes rich.
    The Dictator Franc helped and promoted these two Spanish regions: is this anything that his friends have never told him independentistas, is not it true? the only thing that they know is to become the victims: is not it true? and to say how bad Franc was with them. They tell him what they are interested in, do not leave that they wash the brain, only they can lie.

    "What have I done bad, mami?"

    Also in Spain we are not speaking about Franco the whole day, it is a topic about which they always speak the nationalist regionalist they are those who evidently support the alive memory of Franco, because it does not fall down to them of the mouth, always speaking about Franco for feedback his victimhood, already nobody in Spain believes the victimhood of the nationalistic regionalists.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,795
    Points
    24,492
    Level
    47
    Points: 24,492, Level: 47
    Level completed: 95%, Points required for next Level: 58
    Overall activity: 68.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-BY7449*>YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    The Generalitat (Catalan government) imposed 205 fines to Catalan shops for labelling in Castilian

    The Generalitat has imposed 205 linguistic fines to Catalan establishments in 2010 for breaking the Law of Linguistic Politics, that is to say, for labelling only in Castilian. The normative polemic fixes sanctions for those establishments that they do not label " at least in Catalan ". The collection has amounted to 182.000 euros.

    According to a bulletin of the PP, 205 linguistic fines of 2010 suppose an increase with regard to the 151 that the Generalitat imposed the previous year - which collection was 147.000 euros-, although in 2008 the maximum was marked in both senses: there were 209 sanctions that supposed 208.000 euros.

    The General Secretary of the PP, Jordi Cornet, has repeated that the linguistic fines are a " democratic shame ", from what it has urged the autonomic Government to suppress them for thinking that they are discriminatory and do not respect the freedom of the persons.

    http://www.libertaddigital.com/socie...no-1276416865/


    Liberate against the nationalistic oppression!!!


    "What have I done bad, mami?"

  18. #18
    Elite member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Cimmerianbloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-06-11
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    332
    Points
    4,156
    Level
    18
    Points: 4,156, Level: 18
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 94
    Overall activity: 8.0%


    Ethnic group
    Latin-Germanic
    Country: Germany - Berlin



    I was talking about Franco the poster of the previous post. You actually show how intolerant and narrow-minded you are by posting comments like "Liberate against the nationalistic oppression", which is on top wrong from a grammatical point of view. Read thoroughly the article you copy-pasted, and you'll see the shop owners have been fined "for breaking the law of linguistic politics". If you don't get that, there is nothing nobody can do for you. Just for the sake of having the last word, I will show you this one (I just hope the irony is not too subtle for you):

    http://www.reagrupament.cat/noticies...la_a_catalunya

    You can also read this for your own education:

    http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:C...a_catal%C3%A1n

    I have no problem having an educated conversation with open-minded and intelligent people, so in this case I will refrain from answering to your provocations. Good night, Visca Catalunya i visca el Barça...

  19. #19
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-11-11
    Location
    Somewhere in Spain
    Posts
    139

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Ethnic group
    Spanish (from Spain of course, not Mexican and such)
    Country: Spain - Andorra



    Quote Originally Posted by Cimmerianbloke View Post
    I was talking about Franco the poster of the previous post. You actually show how intolerant and narrow-minded you are by posting comments like "Liberate against the nationalistic oppression", which is on top wrong from a grammatical point of view. Read thoroughly the article you copy-pasted, and you'll see the shop owners have been fined "for breaking the law of linguistic politics". If you don't get that, there is nothing nobody can do for you. Just for the sake of having the last word, I will show you this one (I just hope the irony is not too subtle for you):

    http://www.reagrupament.cat/noticies...la_a_catalunya

    You can also read this for your own education:

    http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:C...dioma_catalán

    I have no problem having an educated conversation with open-minded and intelligent people, so in this case I will refrain from answering to your provocations. Good night, Visca Catalunya i visca el Barça...
    I don't think describing the situation as "nationalistic oppression" is that exaggerate. I did post another comment but it seems it has dissapeared. In few words I wondered how it can be possible that given most of Catalans are native Spanish speakers they prefer that their children study in Catalan. It's strange because I don't know of a single country where most of people speak language X and their children study in Y language. But it's ok, let's assume this is true (at least the Catalan government says so despite they didn't ask students' parents). Even if it was true, there must also exist a sizeable amount of Catalan parents who may desire their sons to study in Spanish.Then since they can't choose to study in Spanish, which is an official tongue in Catalonia too, they are oppresed, there is no freedom of choose. Sorry, I can't see as a normal thing that most of Catalans who speak Spanish natively can't study in Spanish, only in Catalan, just because Catalan is endangered and children must study it immersively at any cost. I think it is an aberration and also it is illegal according to Spanish Constitutional Court. Education is intended to enable people to be competitive in a globalised world, not to revive dying languages. Also don't compare things that cannot be compared. Asking to study in Spanish in Catalonia is not the same as studying in Catalan in Andalusia. In Andalusia nobody speaks Catalan nor Catalan is an official tongue. In Catalonia Spanish is coofficial along with Catalan and the most spoken and used language. A bit different situation I think.

  20. #20
    Elite member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Cimmerianbloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-06-11
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    332
    Points
    4,156
    Level
    18
    Points: 4,156, Level: 18
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 94
    Overall activity: 8.0%


    Ethnic group
    Latin-Germanic
    Country: Germany - Berlin



    If your thinking was right, there would be no more castillan speakers in Catalonia. As a matter of fact, most castillan speakers that got their education through catalan and decided not to use it were not repressed nor expelled from Catalonia. Nobody gets a fine for speaking castillan. The Generalitat provides most forms citizens need in castillan too. I don't see any oppression in that. Only a small percentage of native castillan-speaking catalans moan about the linguistic laws. Most troublemakers are foreign immigrants or coming from other communities. Again, if these people do not understand Catalan is the language of Catalonia, there is little to do but to educate them, which is what the Generalitat does...

  21. #21
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-11-11
    Location
    Somewhere in Spain
    Posts
    139

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Ethnic group
    Spanish (from Spain of course, not Mexican and such)
    Country: Spain - Andorra



    Quote Originally Posted by Cimmerianbloke View Post
    If your thinking was right, there would be no more castillan speakers in Catalonia. As a matter of fact, most castillan speakers that got their education through catalan and decided not to use it were not repressed nor expelled from Catalonia. Nobody gets a fine for speaking castillan. The Generalitat provides most forms citizens need in castillan too. I don't see any oppression in that. Only a small percentage of native castillan-speaking catalans moan about the linguistic laws. Most troublemakers are foreign immigrants or coming from other communities. Again, if these people do not understand Catalan is the language of Catalonia, there is little to do but to educate them, which is what the Generalitat does...
    How come the Catalans who do not use the Catalan language would be expelled from Catalonia by the nationalists if there was repression? They don't do that because they can't, but don't be so sure that they wouldn't do it if they could. There are degrees of repression, from subtle to more agressive and blatant. But it's ok, it could be worse that not being able to study in Spanish. Thank you nationalists for leting us live.
    I don't expect Spanish will dissapear even if all Catalans have to study 100% of subjects in Catalan at school like nowadays (aside from English language and Spanish). If Catalan itself didn't dissapear after centuries of the inverse situation (it was not possible to study in Catalan until 1975),then I guess a bigger language like Spanish won't either. But I don't care that Spanish will survive or not in Catalonia, which I take for granted, as much as the individual rights of the citizens. I think it's a civil right to study in your mother language in your own country, so as long as Catalonia is part of Spain Catalans who desire so have the right to study in Spanish. That only a few moan about this is true, but it's also true that only a few homosexuals wanted gay marriages in Spain and now it is a right for all of them. Rights are rights no matter how many people are interested in executing them and the Spanish law recognizes that both Spanish and Catalan are equally official. So even if just one Catalan wanted to study in Spanish he or she has the legal right. Democracy does not mean that majorities have the power to deny rights to minorities, assumed that a majority of Catalans who do not want to study in Spanish exists.It is very strange that most of Catalans, native Spanish speakers as they are, do not want their language to have the same status than Catalan. Do they want to be second class citizens? Ok, but if some others do not, let them to choose.Nationalists often ask freedom to commit seccession, but on the other hand they are not interested in asking parents which language they prefer as vehicular at schools.
    Catalan is not the sole language of Catalonia, Catalan is one of the languages of Catalonia along with Spanish. So both languages must be equal in all aspects.
    Last edited by Franco; 28-11-11 at 15:24.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,795
    Points
    24,492
    Level
    47
    Points: 24,492, Level: 47
    Level completed: 95%, Points required for next Level: 58
    Overall activity: 68.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-BY7449*>YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    Clearly the Catalan nationalism is something exported artificially, and last decades it has been based on lies. This type of ideologies ends up by losing the head, we already know the history and what it spent, it is true that if they could God knows up to where it would come...

    Spanish is a national language and internaciona, while the Catalan is a regional language, regional language or since want to call him, the question is that a uselessness is logical that many parents of Catalonia see and now with the crisis more that his children finally finish an education being illiterate integrals not only already in Spanish if not also in Catalan a language certainly with the very short wings and quite useless at the time of going out of the borders of the Catalan region.

  23. #23
    Elite member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Cimmerianbloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-06-11
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    332
    Points
    4,156
    Level
    18
    Points: 4,156, Level: 18
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 94
    Overall activity: 8.0%


    Ethnic group
    Latin-Germanic
    Country: Germany - Berlin



    Well, Carlos, if you are right, I suppose Spaniards wouldn't see any problem if Catalans would speak their own folkloric language in their own folkloric region. The problem is that without Catalan taxes money (and Basque...), Spain is nothing. As you probably never set a foot in Catalonia, you better look after your own community and make sure you keep reading the same biased medias, as furthering your political education has clearly never been your priority. Ignorance and narrow-mindedness are clearly an issue in Spain.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,795
    Points
    24,492
    Level
    47
    Points: 24,492, Level: 47
    Level completed: 95%, Points required for next Level: 58
    Overall activity: 68.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-BY7449*>YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by Cimmerianbloke View Post
    Well, Carlos, if you are right, I suppose Spaniards wouldn't see any problem if Catalans would speak their own folkloric language in their own folkloric region. The problem is that without Catalan taxes money (and Basque...), Spain is nothing. As you probably never set a foot in Catalonia, you better look after your own community and make sure you keep reading the same biased medias, as furthering your political education has clearly never been your priority. Ignorance and narrow-mindedness are clearly an issue in Spain.

    Dear friend I Live in Catalonia.

    The rest of Spain does not have any problem with the folklore and the language of Catalonia, there is freedom in Spain and 17 regional governments. Personally it is a language or language that I do not like, I feel it: do I have to ask for excuses?, I do not like his sound, I neither have need to speak it, nor want to speak it; although I can speak it and write it, I do not like, feel it, except that I find her useless.

    The problem is for the workpeople of the rest of Spain that they are moved to Catalonia and see as it is impossible that his children could receive classes in Spanish or simply resident in Catalonia of the rest of Spain that wanted that his children were educated in Spanish, for the simple reason that are in Spain, that have right to which his children study in the common language of Spain, it is like that of easy.

    Spain has the very wide vision friend, do not make a mistake, we have universal tradition and from immemorial times we have had relation with the biggest cultures of the Mediterranean, Europe, later America e.t.c., here the only ones that have the narrow mind are the nationalistic regionalists, already in Spain nobody believes in his words and much less in his positions victimistas, but I observe that they have been able to strain his lies in certain European and world sectors, they do not create them, only they go for the money by means of the discrimination and the exclusion.

    The Europeans you are, well you not, much weighed with the topic Franco, in Spain nobody speaks nor remembers, only the nationalists.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,795
    Points
    24,492
    Level
    47
    Points: 24,492, Level: 47
    Level completed: 95%, Points required for next Level: 58
    Overall activity: 68.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-BY7449*>YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain





    Fined another merchant in Barcelona for labelling in Castilian

    The businesswoman Feliciana Piris makes sure that ' what happens to me is not just '

    He assures not to be arranged to ' happening for the hoop ' despite the fine of 1.200 €

    It is a question of a native Catalan businesswoman, that the people do not believe that all the Catalans are separatist because it is not true.

    The woman born in Cardona (Barcelona) and catalanoparlante, faces now a sanction for 1.200 euros for his denial to change the cartel with the one that offers the products of his business.

    http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2010/0...263932704.html

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 33
    Last Post: 13-12-13, 15:11
  2. "scoreless tie," "personally," and others
    By Glenn in forum Other Serious Discussion
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 29-09-04, 03:49

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •