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Thread: Phenotypes of the Greeks

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    Well, I do not know if anyone will take into account what I say, but my opinion and not only mine is that the most original Greek physical types are found among the aromanians vlachs, the native Greek population of mainland Greece, especially prevalent in the past very much in Epir, Macedonia, Thessaly, Central Greece and Peloponnese even some islands. Many Aromanians mingled with the Slavs and West Asians / Levantines.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkan1992 View Post
    Well, I do not know if anyone will take into account what I say, but my opinion and not only mine is that the most original Greek physical types are found among the aromanians vlachs, the native Greek population of mainland Greece, especially prevalent in the past very much in Epir, Macedonia, Thessaly, Central Greece and Peloponnese even some islands. Many Aromanians mingled with the Slavs and West Asians / Levantines.


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    You have chosen people of very different types.

    Over and beyond that, how do you know what the "original" Greeks looked like? In what time period did the "original" Greeks live? Is it the Mycenaean period, the Classical period, or what?

    This is what some Mycenaeans looked like from the evidence of a fresco in the tomb of one of them. Their pigmentation snps match this, with the fact that warriors were always portrayed with a tan.Some of your examples don't look anything like that.



    Plus, it may be more logical to guess that the most "original" Greek looking people would be those living in areas with the least "Slavic" admixture, yet you include areas like Thessaly and Macedonia?

    The Greeks with the least such admixture in mainland Greece would seem to be the people from the Southern Peloponnese according to genetic analysis.

    Start at 15.37



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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You have chosen people of very different types.

    Over and beyond that, how do you know what the "original" Greeks looked like? In what time period did the "original" Greeks live? Is it the Mycenaean period, the Classical period, or what?

    This is what some Mycenaeans looked like from the evidence of a fresco in the tomb of one of them. Their pigmentation snps match this, with the fact that warriors were always portrayed with a tan.Some of your examples don't look anything like that.



    Plus, it may be more logical to guess that the most "original" Greek looking people would be those living in areas with the least "Slavic" admixture, yet you include areas like Thessaly and Macedonia?

    The Greeks with the least such admixture in mainland Greece would seem to be the people from the Southern Peloponnese according to genetic analysis.

    Start at 15.37



    I do not know what big differences you have seen in the people I post, but you must know the majority that in times of time in the Greek territory (Byzantine and Ottoman later) the Aromanians were a significant population, including the Peloponnese, but they were elected through the Church, the Aromanians themselves have always supported Greece and Hellenism. The majority of Aromanians resembled physically, because in the past they rarely interfered with other nations practicing endogamy, having a protobalcanic physical type, unlike other Greek inhabitants who have Slavic or Turkish influences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkan1992 View Post
    I do not know what big differences you have seen in the people I post, but you must know the majority that in times of time in the Greek territory (Byzantine and Ottoman later) the Aromanians were a significant population, including the Peloponnese, but they were elected through the Church, the Aromanians themselves have always supported Greece and Hellenism. The majority of Aromanians resembled physically, because in the past they rarely interfered with other nations practicing endogamy, having a protobalcanic physical type, unlike other Greek inhabitants who have Slavic or Turkish influences.
    I can't imagine a Greek with Turkish influences physically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenab View Post
    I can't imagine a Greek with Turkish influences physically.
    Well you haven't been to Greece then...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe View Post
    Well you haven't been to Greece then...
    No i've not only been to Greece but also Cyprus I could tell you the physical difference between them although there isn't much...I could certainly tell you the physical difference between Greeks and Turks and the reasons why.

    Greeks don't have Turkish genes you're going to have to try much harder than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenab View Post
    No i've not only been to Greece but also Cyprus I could tell you the physical difference between them although there isn't much...I could certainly tell you the physical difference between Greeks and Turks and the reasons why.

    Greeks don't have Turkish genes you're going to have to try much harder than that.
    Have you seen an eye doctor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    Have you seen an eye doctor?
    Have you? What's your problem Greeks don't have Turkish ancestry you might as well say that about the entire part of Europe who didn't survive Neolithic migration from the Near East. Don't you think they have enough problems right now? Do you think they care what morons say about them online?

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    Quote Originally Posted by archaiocapilos View Post
    E-V13 was formed in the Balkans before thousands of years and in the meantime it mixxed with local women (mtdna H, U, T, K, X, I) and Caucasoid Y-DNA ( I, J2, G2 and R1) so it looks totally Caucasian nowadays... I have never seen an Egyptian or Moroccan looking Greek so far, perhaps they are hiding.
    Some Levantines(Lebanese,Syrians,and few Palestinians) may look Greek at times

    A few Berbers from North Africa may also resemble Greeks, Berbers look different from
    Mainstream North Africans and Arabs

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    I think greeks have a lot of alpine and dinaric types

    Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by archaiocapilos View Post
    Cretans might look Anatolian/Levantine but not Arabic (Cretans are actually one of the people of Greece with higher light eyes percentage). This is a small fraction of what I call anti-Greek propaganda.
    Round faces with short noses? Hmmmm, could it be Alpine R1b? No it must be E1b1b according to Maciamo... But from what I know regions with a lot of E1b1b are not particularly darker skinned than the rest of Greece (for example Cyprus with 20% E1b1b is darker than Peloponnese with 35% E1b1b / and Epirus with 30% E1b1b is lighter then the Aegean with 20% E1b1b). The only haplogroups that somehow reflect ***mentation are R1a1 and I in Greece.
    I've spent a few hours seeing Crete through Google Earth. Obviously visiting the place is much more efficient. Generally speaking, the people on the street seem quite Mediterranean, but it is not possible to see details from the streat view. But who should care what they look like? They have a rich and much more relevant history.

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    I once went to Crete very long time ago, and I thought some people looked middle eastern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico33 View Post
    I once went to Crete very long time ago, and I thought some people looked middle eastern.
    It is possible to find people who look like Middle Eastern people across Europe, but it makes sense that it is more common in Crete since they are the European population closest to the Levantines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mineiro25 View Post
    It is possible to find people who look like Middle Eastern people across Europe, but it makes sense that it is more common in Crete since they are the European population closest to the Levantines.
    According to who? Cretans have more of an affinity to Caucasus populations, due to the relatively higher amount brought by populations like the Minoans, and previous populations. Not to mention high Anatolian_N. Middle Eastern populations have significant amounts of Anatolian_N, and CHG. The main difference is the levant has a lot of Natufian. This component is not significant in Crete, as shown that the Arab invasion left little to no trace according to the study. So if they look similar, it is not due to levantine related populations, but Caucasus and Anatolian_N; which are also present in the rest of Europe btw. Which is also why some Near East populations, look "white". Moreover, the Levant has small but amount of SSA which is not in Crete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    According to who? Cretans have more of an affinity to Caucasus populations, due to the relatively higher amount brought by populations like the Minoans, and previous populations. Not to mention high Anatolian_N. Middle Eastern populations have significant amounts of Anatolian_N, and CHG. The main difference is the levant has a lot of Natufian. This component is not significant in Crete, as shown that the Arab invasion left little to no trace according to the study. So if they look similar, it is not due to levantine related populations, but Caucasus and Anatolian_N; which are also present in the rest of Europe btw. Which is also why some Near East populations, look "white". Moreover, the Levant has small but amount of SSA which is not in Crete.
    What do you mean 'according to whom'? In absolutely each and every PCA the Cretans are the most southeastern Europeans. It is not even a matter of debate. And it is not just a 'Caucasian element', it is the mixture of Caucasian and natufian elements that characterizes the Near East. On average Cretans are between Europeans and the Near East. This matters? Probably not. They have their own culture and history.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mineiro25 View Post
    What do you mean 'according to whom'? In absolutely each and every PCA the Cretans are the most southeastern Europeans. It is not even a matter of debate. And it is not just a 'Caucasian element', it is the mixture of Caucasian and natufian elements that characterizes the Near East. On average Cretans are between Europeans and the Near East. This matters? Probably not. They have their own culture and history.
    You should look at a 3D PCA than, 2D does not show you the nuances. Also, they can plot in that position without Natufian. Minoans ploy Near them without Natufian.

    PCA does not mean it is definitely the case for populations anyway. This is elementary, do you think south Indians and south Americans are one in the same because they overlap in a 2D PCA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    According to who? Cretans have more of an affinity to Caucasus populations, due to the relatively higher amount brought by populations like the Minoans, and previous populations. Not to mention high Anatolian_N. Middle Eastern populations have significant amounts of Anatolian_N, and CHG. The main difference is the levant has a lot of Natufian. This component is not significant in Crete, as shown that the Arab invasion left little to no trace according to the study. So if they look similar, it is not due to levantine related populations, but Caucasus and Anatolian_N; which are also present in the rest of Europe btw. Which is also why some Near East populations, look "white". Moreover, the Levant has small but amount of SSA which is not in Crete.
    do you have proof for your statement that some near eastern populations look "white" because of anatolian_N and CHG ancestry?
    what if certain traits we nowadays call "near eastern" are based on those ancestries?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenab View Post
    No i've not only been to Greece but also Cyprus I could tell you the physical difference between them although there isn't much...I could certainly tell you the physical difference between Greeks and Turks and the reasons why.

    Greeks don't have Turkish genes you're going to have to try much harder than that.
    This is a old message but there are Greeks that came over from the Pontos area of Turkey during the great exchange of populations in 1922-23. They spoke the Pontic dialect of Greek and were Christian Orthodox. Genetically they are close to other people of the area. Greek speaking and Orthodox Christians also came over from Eastern and Northern Thrace, coastal Western Turkey and Cappadocia. There was also a group of Turkish speaking Orthodox people from The Karaman era of Turkey, the Karamanlides. So modern Greeks have a mixture of all those phenotypes.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    kostas kazakos ( greek actor from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrgos,_Elis

    can a person have a more ancient greek face than this
    from the movie iphigenia 1977
    phenotype:
    gracile- med

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    Here are some representative good looking Greeks:

    https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/11/1...ds-alive-2020/

    Also google "good looking greek men"

    For beautiful Greek women go here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oF-ewi22gc

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Here are some representative good looking Greeks:

    https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/11/1...ds-alive-2020/

    they are all pretty face for ladies crowd
    but if i look for a face with more
    ancient greek vibe than kostas is eating them for breakfast
    i wonder what his y haplogroup
    j ,e-v13 or something else


    here is another one
    i like his music very much vangelis (in younger days)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    do you have proof for your statement that some near eastern populations look "white" because of anatolian_N and CHG ancestry?
    what if certain traits we nowadays call "near eastern" are based on those ancestries?
    That's actually my point. Because "whites" and Near easterners share those common ancestries. I wonder if some of our disagreements may just come from a simple misunderstanding.

    In fact, I believe CHG and Anatolian_N may be what gives people a "Roman" look to them. Which is why you can find people that look like that, even in places without Roman occupation, like Ireland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You have chosen people of very different types.

    Over and beyond that, how do you know what the "original" Greeks looked like? In what time period did the "original" Greeks live? Is it the Mycenaean period, the Classical period, or what?

    This is what some Mycenaeans looked like from the evidence of a fresco in the tomb of one of them. Their ***mentation snps match this, with the fact that warriors were always portrayed with a tan.Some of your examples don't look anything like that.



    Plus, it may be more logical to guess that the most "original" Greek looking people would be those living in areas with the least "Slavic" admixture, yet you include areas like Thessaly and Macedonia?

    The Greeks with the least such admixture in mainland Greece would seem to be the people from the Southern Peloponnese according to genetic analysis.

    Start at 15.37



    This a Greek actor from a German television drama series. I think he resembles a bit the reconstructed Mycenaean warrior in terms of his jaw/ chin area.




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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    they are all pretty face for ladies crowd
    but if i look for a face with more
    ancient greek vibe than kostas is eating them for breakfast
    i wonder what his y haplogroup
    j ,e-v13 or something else


    here is another one
    i like his music very much vangelis (in younger days)

    Take a look at Martsakis Skordalos who is the the leader of this group: He plays gaida and cretan Lyra in the first video and plays violin, sings and dances in the second. Handlebar mustache and all:



    Now that's a man's man.

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    Here is a good representative of Greek women, the lead woman dancer that appears to the left of the pic and does a solo entering at 52 secs:

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