Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 15 of 20 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast
Results 351 to 375 of 489

Thread: Y-DNA haplogroups of Greeks by region of origin

  1. #351
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    158
    Points
    2,637
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,637, Level: 14
    Level completed: 63%, Points required for next Level: 113
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-BY611

    Country: Albania



    To reiterate so my point is more clear and all members here understand, I will use as an example one of the halpogroups you mentioned: V13 for example expanded/diversified during bronze age, two of its most successful branches, E-Z5017 and E-Z5018, formed about 4000 years ago. Hypothetically speaking, since you haven't analyse the data in detail, Tosks and Ghegs samples could all be under E-Z5017 while Greeks under Z-Z5018. You understand now how irrelevant your percentages are, right?

    Just because they have less of it doesn't make them closer to Greeks or any other population for that matter.

  2. #352
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-16
    Posts
    11
    Points
    1,875
    Level
    12
    Points: 1,875, Level: 12
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 275
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Afghanistan



    The major distinction between Gheg and Tosk Albanians is that Tosks have an elevated level of seemingly Slavic Y-Dna (R1a and I2a) to Ghegs, who are pretty much 80-90% E-V13, J2b2, and R1b. Now the latter three Y-Dna are also the predominant lineages in Tosks as well, but their supplementary R1a and I2a is what shifts them in a Macedonian, Bulgarian, and northern Greek direction relative to Ghegs. Any superficial similarity Tosks might have to Greeks is due to the fact that both peoples stem from the same Bronze Age substrate (E-V13, J2, and R1b) population that received a Slavic infusion in the Middle Ages via R1a and I2a. It isn't because Tosks are Albanized Greeks of Albania or anything like that.

  3. #353
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,716
    Points
    241,741
    Level
    100
    Points: 241,741, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    Lol I honestly thought he had something up his sleeve that I haven't seen yet. Exactly, bottle necks, founder effects and external influences play their part and even region from region in Ghegnia alone you could find such differences - especially in the north where compact clans dominated in the past. Plus one needs to analyse those uniparental markers in detail, clusters and subclusters, which I doubt he even looked into it, to be able to tell if we actually differ. For example majority of J2 in Greeks is actually J2a which Tosks totally lack etc.

    Not that I know of, at least not in descent number anyway. But judging by the samples at gedmatch from both sides there isn't any substantial difference, at least that I could detect.
    I was sincerely interested in knowing the answer. Still am. :) So many threads here that deal with this topic are full of post after post of unsubstantiated opinion, supported by no or few points of data.

    I was thinking primarily of how Albanians tend to plot on PCAs. They seem to form a rather homogeneous group, not like Italians, who sprawl over large areas of the plot. Of course, I don't know if the academic sample used is split between the two groups. If it is, and there are no studies showing anything different, there doesn't seem to be a big difference between them. Of course, as the British Isles paper showed, if you want to find differences, drill down deep enough and you'll find them anywhere.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  4. #354
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Johane Derite's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-06-17
    Posts
    900
    Points
    12,101
    Level
    33
    Points: 12,101, Level: 33
    Level completed: 22%, Points required for next Level: 549
    Overall activity: 26.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>Z5018>FGC33625
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U1a1a

    Country: Albania



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I was thinking primarily of how Albanians tend to plot on PCAs. They seem to form a rather homogeneous group, not like Italians, who sprawl over large areas of the plot. Of course, I don't know if the academic sample used is split between the two groups. If it is, and there are no studies showing anything different, there doesn't seem to be a big difference between them. Of course, as the British Isles paper showed, if you want to find differences, drill down deep enough and you'll find them anywhere.
    Albanian population is small enough, my dream is that some serious academic drops out of the sky and just does a comprehensive study about us and ends the balkan bickering about albanians race, history etc (both from albanians and neighbours).

    Obviously the real world doesn't work like this but let's hope that soon every person on earth can afford super detailed dna tests, and that they are fully integrated into a hyper competent Artificial Intelligence that shows every single genetic connection
    between every single human alive and dead.

    Until then though, we will have more anr more of "unsubstantiated opinions, supported by no or few points of data"

  5. #355
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    158
    Points
    2,637
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,637, Level: 14
    Level completed: 63%, Points required for next Level: 113
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-BY611

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I was sincerely interested in knowing the answer. Still am. :) So many threads here that deal with this topic are full of post after post of unsubstantiated opinion, supported by no or few points of data.

    I was thinking primarily of how Albanians tend to plot on PCAs. They seem to form a rather homogeneous group, not like Italians, who sprawl over large areas of the plot. Of course, I don't know if the academic sample used is split between the two groups. If it is, and there are no studies showing anything different, there doesn't seem to be a big difference between them. Of course, as the British Isles paper showed, if you want to find differences, drill down deep enough and you'll find them anywhere.
    Yeah lol, me too :)

    On PCA unfortunately I haven't seen any scientific study as of yet, but judging by other sources,Gedmatch, global similarity map at 23andme etc. we are more compact than Greeks - they tend to be allover the place, all depends where they're from really. Of course, we have outliers as well just like any other population, and we also have to remember these divisions we're speaking of, Gheg and Tosk, are dialectal. Here is an amateur map I made from K15:


    Limaj who is a Tosk is an outlier there, but as you can see he is western shifted for some reason - Greeks in general are more eastern. Hila is another Tosk in there, Leapfrogger is a Kosovar, along with Leki (me), Dibran is from Dibra and the rest are Kosovars. Not many samples, but majority of Tosks I have seen so far plot between me, leapfrogger and Hila.

  6. #356
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,716
    Points
    241,741
    Level
    100
    Points: 241,741, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    Yeah lol, me too :)

    On PCA unfortunately I haven't seen any scientific study as of yet, but judging by other sources,Gedmatch, global similarity map at 23andme etc. we are more compact than Greeks - they tend to be allover the place, all depends where they're from really. Of course, we have outliers as well just like any other population, and we also have to remember these divisions we're speaking of, Gheg and Tosk, are dialectal. Here is an amateur map I made from K15:


    Limaj who is a Tosk is an outlier there, but as you can see he is western shifted for some reason - Greeks in general are more eastern. Hila is another Tosk in there, Leapfrogger is a Kosovar, along with Leki (me), Dibran is from Dibra and the rest are Kosovars. Not many samples, but majority of Tosks I have seen so far plot between me, leapfrogger and Hila.
    So, basically east of Tuscans, who themselves are northeast of Sardinians. It's what I rather expected. Not a big difference then, although academic samples might be slightly different, and of course, as I said above, if you want to drill down far enough you can get genetic distance from one town to the next.

    Do you in fact know where the academic Albanian samples were collected? That would tell us a lot. Here is the plot from Haak et al 2015. They basically cluster with the Greeks (I'm assuming Thessaly) and Bulgarians although one is further south, perhaps with Peloponnese?


  7. #357
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    158
    Points
    2,637
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,637, Level: 14
    Level completed: 63%, Points required for next Level: 113
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-BY611

    Country: Albania



    Yes, basically we're eastern shifted Tuscan's, just southwest of Bulgarians and overlapping with number of northern Greeks (Epirots, Thessalians etc) and to an extent even with Slavic Macedonians - important to note that even Kosovars tend to overlap with the mentioned Greeks. Some of that similarity might date back to bronze age as was postulated further up by one of the members but to my opinion good part of it most likely dates from early middle ages and onward when Albanians clans settled down there in droves.

    Unfortunately I don't know where those samples were taken from. I have seen few other studies use Albanian samples but they don't specify where they are from hence why I didn't use them (my gut tells me they are from Kosova though).

  8. #358
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,716
    Points
    241,741
    Level
    100
    Points: 241,741, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    Yes, basically we're eastern shifted Tuscan's, just southwest of Bulgarians and overlapping with number of northern Greeks (Epirots, Thessalians etc) and to an extent even with Slavic Macedonians - important to note that even Kosovars tend to overlap with the mentioned Greeks. Some of that similarity might date back to bronze age as was postulated further up by one of the members but to my opinion good part of it most likely dates from early middle ages and onward when Albanians clans settled down there in droves.

    Unfortunately I don't know where those samples were taken from. I have seen few other studies use Albanian samples but they don't specify where they are from hence why I didn't use them (my gut tells me they are from Kosova though).
    We really need ancient dna from Italy. It's a huge hole in the data. Even when we get it, however, it can't completely be understood without also understanding the ancient genetics from the other side of the Adriatic, because so many population flows came to Italy through the Greek Islands, Greece, and more northern areas of the Balkans.

    The amateurs, people who generally know almost nothing of ancient history in Italy and/or the Balkans persist in trying to understand Italian genetics in a vacuum. It can't be done, imo.

    Thirty years ago, Luigi Cavalli-Sforza said that northern Italians were similar to Bulgarians, and Albanians to Tuscans, yet we have these so called internet experts acting as if they've just discovered all this. The irony is that he came to his conclusions using blood proteins, well before discoveries about snps, and all these new software programs.

    One of his cluster maps.


    It may not be perfect, and directionality may go every which way, but it still tells me a lot.

  9. #359
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    158
    Points
    2,637
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,637, Level: 14
    Level completed: 63%, Points required for next Level: 113
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-BY611

    Country: Albania



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    We really need ancient dna from Italy. It's a huge hole in the data. Even when we get it, however, it can't completely be understood without also understanding the ancient genetics from the other side of the Adriatic, because so many population flows came to Italy through the Greek Islands, Greece, and more northern areas of the Balkans.

    The amateurs, people who generally know almost nothing of ancient history in Italy and/or the Balkans persist in trying to understand Italian genetics in a vacuum. It can't be done, imo.

    Thirty years ago, Luigi Cavalli-Sforza said that northern Italians were similar to Bulgarians, and Albanians to Tuscans, yet we have these so called internet experts acting as if they've just discovered all this. The irony is that he came to his conclusions using blood proteins, well before discoveries about snps, and all these new software programs.

    One of his cluster maps.
    Yeah agreed, fascinating stuff. We really need some big scientific studies like that one that was done in Sardinia for both regions, Italy and Balkans. Both regions currently are extremely under studied.

    On top of that, we also seem to share some of our most common clusters with Sardinians and Italians. For example, our major cluster under R1b-CTS9219>BY611, some of the earlier splits, have been found in Sardinia on the after-mentioned scientific study sample ERS256992 and Italy sample YF08067 (though Mr. Bissacia has mentioned at anthrogenica that his family think they might be of Arbereshe origin). They might be from Bisaku, Mirdite (Fani tribe). Last name looks similar. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y10789/

    R1b-PF7563 that's found among us is also popular in Bulgaria, Italy and Greece as well, similarly we also seem to share few other clusters under V13 (L241 & CTS9320), and J2b2. Some of it is probably Arbereshe influence, but most certainly not all - some of those early splits under V13, J2b2 and R1b-PF7563 most likely date to the earlier movements from both sides, perhaps when Indo-Europeans were expanding and crossing into Italy from the Balkans and all the way up to Greek, Illyrian and Roman periods? Time will tell I guess.

    It might happen in Italy, but I am not confident that we will be seeing such a study in the Balkans in the near future. We just have to rely on fellow Albanians testing and contributing for now.This hasn't been going well either unfortunately for us. Albanians, and Greeks for that matter, are extremely paranoid when it comes to such tests, mostly because of ignorance to my opinion. We have been going at it for like four years now and we only have 128 members (embarrassing!) lol. Surprisingly enough, however, South Slavs seem to be doing really well, especially Serbian and Bulgarian projects. They seem to be more into it and generally are more informed. Geeks and Albanians tirelessly will debate day in and out about a dress or cap who wore it first or where it originates but won't engage in real science or contribute by testing lmao
    Last edited by Leka; 28-07-17 at 06:37.

  10. #360
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    blevins13's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-10-16
    Location
    Tirana
    Age
    43
    Posts
    555
    Points
    2,973
    Level
    15
    Points: 2,973, Level: 15
    Level completed: 75%, Points required for next Level: 77
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-Z2103>BY611
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7i1

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    Yeah lol, me too :)

    On PCA unfortunately I haven't seen any scientific study as of yet, but judging by other sources,Gedmatch, global similarity map at 23andme etc. we are more compact than Greeks - they tend to be allover the place, all depends where they're from really. Of course, we have outliers as well just like any other population, and we also have to remember these divisions we're speaking of, Gheg and Tosk, are dialectal. Here is an amateur map I made from K15:


    Limaj who is a Tosk is an outlier there, but as you can see he is western shifted for some reason - Greeks in general are more eastern. Hila is another Tosk in there, Leapfrogger is a Kosovar, along with Leki (me), Dibran is from Dibra and the rest are Kosovars. Not many samples, but majority of Tosks I have seen so far plot between me, leapfrogger and Hila.
    Hi can you elaborate more on Limaj...I don't understand what you mean. (He is my father in law from Vranisht, Laberia.if you got the results on 23 and me.)


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

  11. #361
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    19-04-12
    Posts
    384
    Points
    10,417
    Level
    30
    Points: 10,417, Level: 30
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 133
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Finland



    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    Hi can you elaborate more on Limaj...I don't understand what you mean. (He is my father in law from Vranisht, Laberia.if you got the results on 23 and me.)


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
    I think he means that he deviates from the common pattern of Albanian clustering, he is very southwest which is not common for a Balkanite i suppose.

  12. #362
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered1000 Experience Points
    Diomedes's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-04-17
    Posts
    240
    Points
    1,575
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,575, Level: 11
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 275
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: Greece



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    One has to ask himself why Greeks and Albanians have such an animosity between each other, especially Tosk Albanians who are practically Greeks.

    It is important for Byzantium to return, at least in these two countries.

  13. #363
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    158
    Points
    2,637
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,637, Level: 14
    Level completed: 63%, Points required for next Level: 113
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-BY611

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    Hi can you elaborate more on Limaj...I don't understand what you mean. (He is my father in law from Vranisht, Laberia.if you got the results on 23 and me.)


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
    Hi Blevins. He gravitates away from us there but as I mentioned it's an amateur map based on gedmatch.com Eurogenes V2 K15 calculator, also where I got his results, so shouldn't be taken seriously. On a real PCA he probably would be just a tad west of us, maybe right with Tuscans, based on his components - elevated west med. That could mean he has more farmer like ancestry than your average Albanian, which doesn't make sense honesty because one would think we're thoroughly mixed by now lol.

    Can't remember who created it but I have noticed discrepancies between selecting North Sea/Atlantic, Easter Euro/Baltic and West Med/East Med & Red Sea/West Asian to an extent in this calculator. Basically some Albanians score more of one of them than the other and vice versa - this just goes to show that they shouldn't be taken literally. They are fun to play around with however :)

    Tosks are in Grey


    Also the ethnic compositions at 23andme, Ancestrydna, Living DNA, Family Tree DNA etc are basically designed and put together in similar fashion, and shouldn't be taken seriously either lmao - such autosomal tests are useful however to find close relatives but that's about it. Europeans are thoroughly mixed so it's impossible to generate clusters that would identify one ethnicity or a linguistic group alone autosomally.
    Last edited by Leka; 29-07-17 at 02:49.

  14. #364
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,716
    Points
    241,741
    Level
    100
    Points: 241,741, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    Hi Blevins. He gravitates away from us there but as I mentioned it's an amateur map based on gedmatch.com Eurogenes V2 K15 calculator, also where I got his results, so shouldn't be taken seriously. On a real PCA he probably would be just a tad west of us, maybe right with Tuscans, based on his components - elevated west med. That could mean he has more farmer like ancestry than your average Albanian, which doesn't make sense honesty because one would think were are thoroughly mixed by now lol.

    Can't remember who created it but I have noticed discrepancies between selecting North Sea/Atlantic, Easter Euro/Baltic and West Med/East Med & Red Sea/West Asian to an extent in this calculator. Basically some Albanians score more of one of them than the other and vice versa - this just goes to show that they shouldn't be taken literally. They are fun to play around with however :)

    Tosks are in Grey


    Also the ethnic compositions at 23andme, Ancestrydna, Living DNA, Family Tree DNA etc are basically designed and put together in similar fashion, and shouldn't be taken seriously either lmao - they are usuefull however to find close relatives but that's about it. Europeans are thoroughly mixed so it's impossible to generate clusters that would identify one ethnicity or a linguistic group alone autosomally.
    Thoroughly agree. Fun to play around with, but calculators based on modern European clusters should never be confused with actual analysis. It can provide interesting clues, however.

  15. #365
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    blevins13's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-10-16
    Location
    Tirana
    Age
    43
    Posts
    555
    Points
    2,973
    Level
    15
    Points: 2,973, Level: 15
    Level completed: 75%, Points required for next Level: 77
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-Z2103>BY611
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7i1

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    Hi Blevins. He gravitates away from us there but as I mentioned it's an amateur map based on gedmatch.com Eurogenes V2 K15 calculator, also where I got his results, so shouldn't be taken seriously. On a real PCA he probably would be just a tad west of us, maybe right with Tuscans, based on his components - elevated west med. That could mean he has more farmer like ancestry than your average Albanian, which doesn't make sense honesty because one would think were are thoroughly mixed by now lol.

    Can't remember who created it but I have noticed discrepancies between selecting North Sea/Atlantic, Easter Euro/Baltic and West Med/East Med & Red Sea/West Asian to an extent in this calculator. Basically some Albanians score more of one of them than the other and vice versa - this just goes to show that they shouldn't be taken literally. They are fun to play around with however :)

    Tosks are in Grey


    Also the ethnic compositions at 23andme, Ancestrydna, Living DNA, Family Tree DNA etc are basically designed and put together in similar fashion, and shouldn't be taken seriously either lmao - they are usuefull however to find close relatives but that's about it. Europeans are thoroughly mixed so it's impossible to generate clusters that would identify one ethnicity or a linguistic group alone autosomally.
    Thanks Leka for your insight. I really appreciate it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

  16. #366
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    158
    Points
    2,637
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,637, Level: 14
    Level completed: 63%, Points required for next Level: 113
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-BY611

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    Thanks Leka for your insight. I really appreciate it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
    No problem bro. Ps he is V13 if I am not mistaken? Test him at Family Tree DNA, at least 37 markers. We really could use more Tosk samples :)

  17. #367
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    12-03-12
    Posts
    201
    Points
    6,447
    Level
    23
    Points: 6,447, Level: 23
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 103
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    To reiterate so my point is more clear and all members here understand, I will use as an example one of the halpogroups you mentioned: V13 for example expanded/diversified during bronze age, two of its most successful branches, E-Z5017 and E-Z5018, formed about 4000 years ago. Hypothetically speaking, since you haven't analyse the data in detail, Tosks and Ghegs samples could all be under E-Z5017 while Greeks under Z-Z5018. You understand now how irrelevant your percentages are, right?

    Just because they have less of it doesn't make them closer to Greeks or any other population for that matter.
    I do realize that hypothetically this could be the case. Although, this is speculation either way. It may actually not be that case at all. Would be delighted to see more data on this.

    That said, it doesn't change the fact that Tosks and Gheghs do differ. Even though they do inhabit a relatively small area. This is what the authors of the article I posted conluded. And I never said that Tosks were Greeks. I never went toward that direction. I said they were genetically indistinguishable from mainland Greeks, which is something else. And I argued that this is mostly due to pre-historic gene flows. Ofcourse, absent data, we can only speculate. Feel free to do so. But personally, I haven't seen any data which refutes my initial claim.

  18. #368
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    158
    Points
    2,637
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,637, Level: 14
    Level completed: 63%, Points required for next Level: 113
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-BY611

    Country: Albania



    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Your claim was erroneous based on nothing basically, simple as that. As mentioned before, differences can be found even among Ghegs from region to region if one really digs deep into it, however, generally speaking they are not great.

    Small area, are you kidding me? Do you actually know how inaccessible most of Albanian is, and how distant was Kosova from Laberia in the past? Even today with the modern motorways one needs to travel all day non stop to reach such distances. Yet, me a Kosovar with origin from north Albania and Belvins here who is a Lab are related, we both are R1b-CTS9219>BY611. You obviously are clueless and bit more than you could chew - better don't get involved at all.

  19. #369
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    12-03-12
    Posts
    201
    Points
    6,447
    Level
    23
    Points: 6,447, Level: 23
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 103
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: Netherlands



    2 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    I think you might be ignoring some evidence here. On an overall basis, Tosks and Gheghs do show differences. There is no point trying to ignore the obvious.

  20. #370
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    blevins13's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-10-16
    Location
    Tirana
    Age
    43
    Posts
    555
    Points
    2,973
    Level
    15
    Points: 2,973, Level: 15
    Level completed: 75%, Points required for next Level: 77
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-Z2103>BY611
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7i1

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Dianatomia View Post
    I think you might be ignoring some evidence here. On an overall basis, Tosks and Gheghs do show differences. There is no point trying to ignore the obvious.
    .....as for differences between Tosks and Gegs, differences will have to do more with geographical accessibility. North Albanians alps are unaccessible, so more Bulgar and Slavic input in Tosk area. North Greece has also the input of Greek moved from Turkey that are different from south Albanians.....anyway, time will solve this issue as more dna test coming....but I am sure that the answer will be disappointing like many other lies about Albanians forged in Athens.


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

    Ed. by moderator.
    An insult toward Greeks was removed. I'm going to give you one warning. Do not personalize these discussions in a way that insults another ethnicity or you'll start getting infraction points, and we know how that ends.

    You people are going to start according Maciamo's site the respect you give places like anthrogenica, and not treat it like it's some site like theapricity or the like.

    We'd better be clear, people. No whining here either, save that for other sites as well...follow the rules

  21. #371
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,716
    Points
    241,741
    Level
    100
    Points: 241,741, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    If someone wants to argue there's a big difference between Ghegs and Tosks, great...I couldn't care less whether that's the case or not. However, present hard genetic evidence, i.e. autosomal dna results, not unsubstantiated speculation.

  22. #372
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    blevins13's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-10-16
    Location
    Tirana
    Age
    43
    Posts
    555
    Points
    2,973
    Level
    15
    Points: 2,973, Level: 15
    Level completed: 75%, Points required for next Level: 77
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-Z2103>BY611
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7i1

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    No problem bro. Ps he is V13 if I am not mistaken? Test him at Family Tree DNA, at least 37 markers. We really could use more Tosk samples :)
    Yes he is indeed V13.... I am will test him. But differences will show up since toskeria and laberia are not the same....Laberia is mountainous region while toskeria is more accessible and urbanized.


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

  23. #373
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    05-02-17
    Location
    sparta
    Posts
    68
    Points
    2,050
    Level
    12
    Points: 2,050, Level: 12
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 100
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    dorian
    Country: Greece



    The Italian study of Bologna University "Ancient and recent admixture layers in Sicily" shows that tosks and ghegs differ in autosomal DNA as well as in the y dna with the tosks being more european like and ghegs more eef like even if they are geographically to the north.(take a look in the supplementary figures)This means that ghegs are less influenced by their neighboring peoples because of their isolation.And as far as i know they also differ linguistically and phenotypically.One of the factors that contributed to their differentiation is the mixing with Greeks, as the ancient Greek colonies, geography and the presence of a Greek minority suggest.So it is not a question of if but rather of how much they were influenced by the Greeks.
    BUT WHAT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND IS HOW YOU TURNED ONCE MORE THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT GREEK REGIONAL Y DNA GROUPS IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ALBANIANS.

  24. #374
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    DuPidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-07-15
    Posts
    445


    Country: Cuba



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by spartan owl View Post
    The Italian study of Bologna University "Ancient and recent admixture layers in Sicily" shows that tosks and ghegs differ in autosomal DNA as well as in the y dna with the tosks being more european like and ghegs more eef like even if they are geographically to the north.(take a look in the supplementary figures)This means that ghegs are less influenced by their neighboring peoples because of their isolation.And as far as i know they also differ linguistically and phenotypically.One of the factors that contributed to their differentiation is the mixing with Greeks, as the ancient Greek colonies, geography and the presence of a Greek minority suggest.So it is not a question of if but rather of how much they were influenced by the Greeks.
    BUT WHAT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND IS HOW YOU TURNED ONCE MORE THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT GREEK REGIONAL Y DNA GROUPS IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ALBANIANS.
    Differences are minor! Tosks have more I1 and I2 as a result of three occupations: Goths, Slavs, Turks. All occupations are documented. Goths were present In Epiris Vetus for 200 years. Slavs for 120 years.Turks 500 years. All have left their marks. I1+I2 in Tosks is over 20%. I would say 25 % of Tosk genes could be from these occupations. Is my educated guess nothing scientific. Gegs on the other side live in a very rugged environment, with limited arable land, no access roads so they were more pastoral. So Geghs are the real Illyrians, preserved. But ethnicity is not genes. If it was genes Germany would be made of many ethnicity's, Italy should have had at least 5 ethnicity's etc.. As for comparing Greeks and Tosks genetically has no point. Greek genomes are largely artificial and do not reflect continuity. 1.5 million Greeks from Turkey, large Albanian, Vlahs, Slavs, Turkish, Jewish, Venetians make any talk about Greek DNA a crude joke.

  25. #375
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Johane Derite's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-06-17
    Posts
    900
    Points
    12,101
    Level
    33
    Points: 12,101, Level: 33
    Level completed: 22%, Points required for next Level: 549
    Overall activity: 26.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>Z5018>FGC33625
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U1a1a

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Gegs on the other side live in a very rugged environment, with limited arable land, no access roads so they were more pastoral. So Geghs are the real Illyrians, preserved.

    I think that when mentioning Geghs people need to start differentiating between Kosovo Geghs and highlander Gegs if they want to talk about "rugged" or "inaccessible." Kosovo is known for its flat fertile plains (as the map below shows). So lets not speculate without any concrete indications.

    Attachment 8985 Attachment 8986Attachment 8987

Page 15 of 20 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Italian surnames by region
    By Maciamo in forum European Culture & History
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 29-03-19, 23:05
  2. What is your favourite European region for sightseeing ?
    By Maciamo in forum Travelling & Living in Europe
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 25-07-18, 14:51
  3. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-05-16, 01:53
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 30-12-10, 09:48

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •