Y-DNA haplogroups of Greeks by region of origin

The Italian study of Bologna University "Ancient and recent admixture layers in Sicily" shows that tosks and ghegs differ in autosomal DNA as well as in the y dna with the tosks being more european like and ghegs more eef like even if they are geographically to the north.(take a look in the supplementary figures)This means that ghegs are less influenced by their neighboring peoples because of their isolation.And as far as i know they also differ linguistically and phenotypically.One of the factors that contributed to their differentiation is the mixing with Greeks, as the ancient Greek colonies, geography and the presence of a Greek minority suggest.So it is not a question of if but rather of how much they were influenced by the Greeks.
BUT WHAT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND IS HOW YOU TURNED ONCE MORE THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT GREEK REGIONAL Y DNA GROUPS IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ALBANIANS.

Did we actually read the same paper? If I was you I wouldn't bring it up lol, because it just further solidifies my point that northern Greeks (Thessaly, Epir and Poleponessos) share descent amount of their ancestry with Albanians (Tosk and Gheg) including Kosovars who are Gheg Albanians, and that Albanians don't differ greatly from each other. It's a known fact that Tosks have absorbed more Slavic influence but how that makes them more similar to Greeks I haven't been able to get it out of you guys yet. Furthermore, it's hard to make out the labels on the PCA, but I see Tosks and Ghegs clustering nicely on the left not that distantly from each other while Greeks are all over the place
Modern Southern Italian and Southern Balkan populations are located at the centre of the PCA plot (Fig. 2, Supplementary Fig. S1), forming an almost uninterrupted bridge between the two parallel clines of distribution where most of the other modern populations are found, one stretching along the East-West axis of Europe and the other from the Near East to the Caucasus, respectively (see also Supplementary Information). In particular, Sicily and Southern Italy (SSI) appear as belonging to a wide and homogeneous genetic domain, which is shared by large portions of the present-day South-Eastern Euro-Mediterranean area, extending from Sicily to Cyprus, through Crete, Aegean-Dodecanese and Anatolian Greek Islands. We will refer to this domain as ‘Mediterranean genetic continuum’. On the other hand, the continental part of Greece, including Peloponnesus, appears as slightly differentiated, by clustering with the other Southern Balkan populations of Albania and Kosovo. Finally, North-Central Balkan groups (Southern Slavic-speakers and Romanians) show affinity to Eastern Europeans (Fig. 2, Supplementary Fig. S1, Supplementary Information).

Even the paper was postulating that Greece probably went through some drastic population changes ever since their glory days, hence why the aforementioned regions are more related to Albanians and show no affinity to their comrades across the sea. You first have to define what represents a Greek and then come here and tell us what we are and single out our 'Greek' influence lol
 
O.K. That's enough. Back to the yDna of Greeks. NOW!

Take these dispute to the Balkan Disagreements thread. You can find it through the search engine.
 
To the Albanians: It does not matter what the genes say. What matters, first and foremost, is what Greeks feel about their country. Do not try to destroy threads with this propaganda. As Angela says, this thread has become off-topic, unfortunately.
 
Tosks are more 'similar' according to Y dna overall to Greeks(depends to region) because they all together are more similar to their Macedonian Slavic and Bulgarian neighbors which sets Ghegs a bit apart,Greek Macedonia and Greek Thrace is probably one of the most near population to Macedonian Slavs and Bulgarians perhaps according to Y dna,despite modern population exchange and settlements in this regions.
 
Tosks are more 'similar' according to Y dna overall to Greeks(depends to region) because they all together are more similar to their Macedonian Slavic and Bulgarian neighbors which sets Ghegs a bit apart,Greek Macedonia and Greek Thrace is probably one of the most near population to Macedonian Slavs and Bulgarians perhaps according to Y dna,despite modern population exchange and settlements in this regions.

The samples are to small to come to that conclusion.... on the other side we have not seen Turk impact on the Tosk Albania so why Bulgarian should have one????


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The samples are to small to come to that conclusion.... on the other side we have not seen Turk impact on the Tosk Albania so why Bulgarian should have one????


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Whatever the case,I am not speaking of 'impacts' here but according to Y DNA we have and similarities across regions that is still valuable, whether for you or anyone is good or bad,we like it or not.I do not see reason to be bad,it is neither surprising for neighbors to share similar Y DNA.
 
Whatever the case,I am not speaking of 'impacts' here but according to Y DNA we have and similarities across regions that is still valuable, whether for you or anyone is good or bad,we like it or not.I do not see reason to be bad,it is neither surprising for neighbors to share similar Y DNA.

Post your references here....so we can learn more....


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We've now gotten to the point where a post includes a request to have it deleted? Just report off topic provocative posts and don't respond.

This is madness.

Just stop dredging up your old conflicts, for goodness sakes', and keep it neutral and scientific. Take the other stuff to the Balkan Disagreements thread. It was made for you guys, and now you won't use it. What's wrong with it? Do you think the rest of the members want to read this perpetual sniping?

Follow the god darn rules. It's really not too much to ask.
 
Yet another time you people just do not answer my questions and instead try to put another controversy in the table so that we forget about what has been told and moving forward to another subject.
Yes mainland greece and albania share some common genes, but that could be also interpreted in a lot of ways for example a greek-byzantine influence to the albanians, or a more common eef substratum for both of them, or just a common slavic influence etc but you just choose to interpret it in one way that the small albanian population left a huge impact in the lot bigger greek one, and further more that it was an one way influence and not a both way influence like it usually is.
But again tell me what of the follwing do you disagree
1.ancient greeks did colonize s.albania
2.byzantine presence in your region was longer of all gothic slavic and turkish presence combined.
3.Even today there is a greek minority in s.albania recognized by the albanian state
so how can you argue that tosks are not influenced by the greeks at all?
And do not use stupid tricks like "
define what represents a Greek" because you have neither defined what represents an albanian.
In the end i would like to suggest to the moderators to erase everything that is off topic because if not that will go one for ever as both parts feel that we "have" to respond to each other


There were no Greeks whatsoever in north Albanian where my origins lie to connect Kosvars and the rest of Albanians to such cluster. One of my closest matches paternally is a Greek from Thesaloniki with no knowledge of Arvanit ancestry. There are dozen others who are a bit more distant from Athens, Islands to Epirus. What do you think is the case here, a Greek establishing major clans in North Albania and Montenegro highlands like part of Thaçi, Kelmendi, Kastrati, Trieshi, Piperi etc. or the other way around?

In other hand we have many well recorded migrations of Albanians down south since at least 13 century and ownward. So as you can see, I like to follow where the data leads and theories that actually make sense and fit with the historical sources we have for the Balkans. You see the problem Spartan Owl, your Greek and Byzantine influence on us hypothesis is based absolutely on nothing, only hot air. Show me something concrete and I will follow.
 
There were no Greeks whatsoever in north Albanian where my origins lie to connect Kosvars and the rest of Albanians to such cluster. One of my closest matches paternally is a Greek from Thesaloniki with no knowledge of Arvanit ancestry. There are dozen others who are a bit more distant from Athens, Islands to Epirus. What do you think is the case here, a Greek establishing major clans in North Albania and Montenegro highlands like part of Thaçi, Kelmendi, Kastrati, Trieshi, Piperi etc. or the other way around?

In other hand we have many well recorded migrations of Albanians down south since at least 13 century and ownward. So as you can see, I like to follow where the data leads and theories that actually make sense and fit with the historical sources we have for the Balkans. You see the problem Spartan Owl, your Greek and Byzantine influence on us hypothesis is based absolutely on nothing, only hot air. Show me something concrete and I will follow.


@ Leka
search the story of Μετοχιτες Metochites Metohites,
there were Greeks in Kossovo, and there were Romans etc etc
they are connected with Byzantine nobility family and moved to Thessaloniki

until 1300 Greeks existed at Metochia

as for Monte Negro, yes it had from Antique colonies of Cretans,
but generally is not considered a significant
as also the Greeks in Kroatia who existed even to 1800 left at Napoleonic wars,

Today you can not exclude Greeks from Balkans, as you can not exclude Slavs from Balkans, as you can can not exclude Albanians from Greece,
as you can not exclude Aromani from all Aimos peninsula countries.
 
Yetos, your post is irrelevant to our discussion and to R1b-CTS9219>BY611 that I belong to that is also found among Greeks today. Clans that wholly and partly belong to this line, like Kelmendi-Muriqi, Old Hoti, Old Trieshi, part of Kastrati and Piperi were well established in North Albania and southern Montenegro in the 15th century, recorded by Venetians too. The few Greek merchants who solely lived in cities couldn't have impacted us to that extent. Be logical please.
 
Yetos, your post is irrelevant to our discussion and to R1b-CTS9219>BY611 that I belong to that is also found among Greeks today. Clans that wholly and partly belong to this line, like Kelmendi-Muriqi, Old Hoti, Old Trieshi, part of Kastrati and Piperi were well established in North Albania and southern Montenegro in the 15th century, recorded by Venetians too. The few Greek merchants who solely lived in cities couldn't have impacted us to that extent. Be logical please.


@ Leka

your egoism is big,
Simon Simeonis mentions that at 1300 about the Greeks at Dyrrachium were the second biggest group after the latins,

as for the modern families names, you tell me nothing, as you said they were settled at 15 century.

about Metochites in Kossyfopedio, wanted or not it is true.

and my post is an answer to this .

There were no Greeks whatsoever in north Albanian where my origins lie to connect Kosvars and the rest of Albanians to such cluster. One of my closest matches paternally is a Greek from Thesaloniki with no knowledge of Arvanit ancestry.


you see Leka Greeks existed even the times of Battle of Kossovo, or the times of kastrioti and Vallavan pasha.

maybe the Greek of Thessaloniki is a Greek and you are too, and you have no knowlwdge.
maybe you are both Romans Aromani Remenii.
who knows,



 
Yetos, your post is irrelevant to our discussion and to R1b-CTS9219>BY611 that I belong to that is also found among Greeks today. Clans that wholly and partly belong to this line, like Kelmendi-Muriqi, Old Hoti, Old Trieshi, part of Kastrati and Piperi were well established in North Albania and southern Montenegro in the 15th century, recorded by Venetians too. The few Greek merchants who solely lived in cities couldn't have impacted us to that extent. Be logical please.
leka do you actually belive that this discussion is about you and your haplogroup?
i rest my case!!!
 
[h=3]1328, 1332, 1336
John Cantacuzene:
Unruly Nomads
Pay Homage to the Emperor
[/h]
[FONT=&quot]While the emperor was staying in Thessaly [/FONT][FONT=&quot](2)[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the unruly Albanians living in the Thessalian mountains appeared before him who, according to their tribal leaders, are called Malakasians, Buians and Mesarites and whose numbers reach 12,000. They paid homage to the emperor and promised to serve him, for they were afraid of being annihilated by the Byzantines at the onset of winter, living as they do, not in towns, but in the mountains and in inaccessible regions. Since they must abandon these regions in the winter due to the cold and snow, which falls in incredible amounts in such vicinities, they believed that they would easily fall prey to them.[/FONT]

Probably all of those Albanians recorded there evaporated, of fell beneath the ground. I rest my case.
 
1328, 1332, 1336
John Cantacuzene:
Unruly Nomads
Pay Homage to the Emperor




Probably all of those Albanians recorded there evaporated, of fell beneath the ground. I rest my case.

Leka if you do not know the history of Arvanites in Greece,
I suggest read the post #324.

THERE IS NO NEED TO REPAET CRAP OF THESSALY AND NOMADS

and what malakasii etc

at 1240 at Theba fields area known as Livanates today
Gegs from Albania were imported by De la Roche Bourgoundian nobility cause they acompaniyng him as a crusader and ruler
land was given to them there, Farmers, what Nomads you say?

at 1380 Peter of Aragonia allows them to enter Attica
at 1400 pass to peloponese by Palaiologos license

at 1465 except the Theba ones, who were farmers till today
majority is working Venician republic, and venician estimate them 10 000 at their castles and colonies.

The rest are imagination,

Arbanites never settled in Makedonia and Thessaloniki, that era,
even the times of Ali Pasha, his fear was Armatoliki of Olympos.

Now because you have a Y-DNA mark,
this does not mean that all that have same mark are Albanians
in fact they might be Albanians,
you might be Greek
you might be Roman-Aromani
or even a son of Crusader from deep Ireland,
or a Varangian or even a lost pilgrim family

I am G2a3a,
what that means?
that All Albanians with G2a3a are Greeks?
or that I am a Cypriot?
or an Italian?
or a Iranian?
or a Kappadokian Anatolian?

try to understand it, wanted or Not
there is Albanian DNA in Greece
but there is also Greek DNA in Albania,
and both Greece and Albania have Slavic DNA
(and is more than 20%)


as for my family name,
it is half Roman, half Greek,
and exists the same sound in Greece Turkey Romania and Hungary
while in more centum in Italy and Austria
and in Satem form in Iran Afganistan Russia Ukraine Albania Czechia

because my Satem name exists in Albania does this means I am Albanian?
 
Leka if you do not know the history of Arvanites in Greece,
I suggest read the post #324.

THERE IS NO NEED TO REPAET CRAP OF THESSALY AND NOMADS

and what malakasii etc

at 1240 at Theba fields area known as Livanates today
Gegs from Albania were imported by De la Roche Bourgoundian nobility cause they acompaniyng him as a crusader and ruler
land was given to them there, Farmers, what Nomads you say?

at 1380 Peter of Aragonia allows them to enter Attica
at 1400 pass to peloponese by Palaiologos license

at 1465 except the Theba ones, who were farmers till today
majority is working Venician republic, and venician estimate them 10 000 at their castles and colonies.

The rest are imagination,

Arbanites never settled in Makedonia and Thessaloniki, that era,
even the times of Ali Pasha, his fear was Armatoliki of Olympos.

Now because you have a Y-DNA mark,
this does not mean that all that have same mark are Albanians
in fact they might be Albanians,
you might be Greek
you might be Roman-Aromani
or even a son of Crusader from deep Ireland,
or a Varangian or even a lost pilgrim family

I am G2a3a,
what that means?
that All Albanians with G2a3a are Greeks?
or that I am a Cypriot?
or an Italian?
or a Iranian?
or a Kappadokian Anatolian?

try to understand it, wanted or Not
there is Albanian DNA in Greece
but there is also Greek DNA in Albania,
and both Greece and Albania have Slavic DNA
(and is more than 20%)


as for my family name,
it is half Roman, half Greek,
and exists the same sound in Greece Turkey Romania and Hungary
while in more centum in Italy and Austria
and in Satem form in Iran Afganistan Russia Ukraine Albania Czechia

because my Satem name exists in Albania does this means I am Albanian?

We are arguing that the Albanian dna footprint in Greece is substantial.... since this is the topic. The Albanian Dna is discussed in another thread.::::but since you are going on with this find below my thought. Sure that has been Greeks in Durrës in 1322 but after Turkish invasion there were left only 1000 people 220 families. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durrës
So the mixing of the Durres Greeks with Barbaric Albanian should have been minimal.
As for 20% Slavic DNA on Albanian that is a speculation there is no proof that.



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Yetos there is no point in having that discussion with leka. For god's sake, he had even questioned the Byzantine presence in north albania by saying"There were no Greeks whatsoever in north Albanian" . what is next, we will have to prove that the earth is round or that the sun is rising in the east. he can read an Albanian history book of the elementary school to refresh his memory if he wants.
Or argue with dupidh that the presence of ev13 in England does not mean albanian colonization of England.
or arguing with laberia that the study of the whashington University about the slavic impact on Peloponnese is valid even if it is not in line with his personal opinions.
 
We are arguing that the Albanian dna footprint in Greece is substantial.... since this is the topic. The Albanian Dna is discussed in another thread.::::but since you are going on with this find below my thought. Sure that has been Greeks in Durrës in 1322 but after Turkish invasion there were left only 1000 people 220 families. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durrës
So the mixing of the Durres Greeks with Barbaric Albanian should have been minimal.
As for 20% Slavic DNA on Albanian that is a speculation there is no proof that.



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Blevins

or the Greeks of Albania got Albanised as a second possible answer

as for Slavic admixture in Albania
it is certain
 
Blevins

or the Greeks of Albania got Albanised as a second possible answer

as for Slavic admixture in Albania
it is certain

That might be an option if you believe on the possibility that metropolitan Greeks of Durres adopted the rural life in the mountains. Don't forget that Durres was a ghost city after Turkish occupation. So it seem that the majority either died or sold as slaves.


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Blevins

or the Greeks of Albania got Albanised as a second possible answer

as for Slavic admixture in Albania
it is certain

The albanization of Greeks in Albania if any that happened nobody knows when, should be one of those rare cases that occurred without force but as a free choice.... is unbelievable for me but never say never. As for Slavic admixture , let me know how you come to that conclusion, what data did you check in your DNA so I can check mine and let you know.


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