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Thread: Y-DNA haplogroups of Greeks by region of origin

  1. #126
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    I'm not against any haplogroup or people Carlitos, I don't dislike R1b's or E1b1b's or C's or whatever. Haplogroups can only reveal human migration patterns (allthough the exact time that this migrations happened is not perfecty clear) not human behavor or personality.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E1b1b1a3 V22+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c

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    Quote Originally Posted by archaiocapilos View Post
    I'm not against any haplogroup or people Carlitos, I don't dislike R1b's or E1b1b's or C's or whatever. Haplogroups can only reveal human migration patterns (allthough the exact time that this migrations happened is not perfecty clear) not human behavor or personality.
    It is true, but some of them R want that it is not like that, then they have to take of their own medicine.

  3. #128
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    Yes, you are right...if we behaved like them we should name R1b's and I1's the haplogroups that lead to racism, superiority complex, depression and serial killers...

  4. #129
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E1b1b1a3 V22+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c

    Ethnic group
    Ethnic group of those who are going to die.
    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by archaiocapilos View Post
    Yes, you are right...if we behaved like them we should name R1b's and I1's the haplogroups that lead to racism, superiority complex, depression and serial killers...

    exact, like we say in Spain, where they give them they take them.
    Donde las dan las toman.

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    Ethnic group
    hun
    Country: Turkey



    Quote Originally Posted by archaiocapilos View Post
    Have you read any of my posts? Because Ionian Greeks were expelled from Turkey (after 1922) and they all currently live in Greece, not much left in Turkey. That's why so little E-V13 is left there, ALL Greeks have gone.
    And Maciamo insists that genetical Greeks who live in Greece, speak Greek and identify as Greeks should be classified under Turkey all though not even one of them lives there now. How much more absurd can one be?
    just to fix. greeks was not expelled. it was a population exchange agreement between Atatürk (turkey) and Venizelos (greece).

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian View Post
    just to fix. greeks was not expelled. it was a population exchange agreement between Atatürk (turkey) and Venizelos (greece).
    You are right but I use expelled for both Greeks and Turks because it wasn't something they chose to do (leave their homes) but were forced to do it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by archaiocapilos View Post
    No because it would be actually true...but my ancestors were also Greeks (at least part Greeks) and being classified under Turkey is an insult (Turkey as a name wasn't even in use back then, Greeks only knew of Turks=[Sultan-Muslims-Jennisaries-Enemies] and they used ancient names for their homeland like Ionia, Pontus, Kappadokia or their cities - Konstantinoupole, Smyrne, Trapezounta, Amissos, Kaisareia etc.)
    It's time to learn to forget and forgive. Greece has been independent from the Ottoman Empire for nearly 180 years. The population exchange between Greece and Turkey happened 90 years ago. Any abuse that might have been committed by Turks in past centuries has nothing to do with modern Turks. If most Europeans don't hold a grudge against Germany for WWI and WWII anymore, how can you still be so xenophobic based on acts that happened hundreds of years ago ?

    You seem to forget that conquering armies and people in power have always abused people throughout history, no matter where. Why is it that the Chinese can forget/forgive that their emperors killed millions of its citizens to build the Great Wall, and that Mao killed over 20 millions in living memory due to its bad policies and forced relocalisations ? People in Germany, France and the Low Countries fought bitterly with each others, often at the local level, during the Protestant Reformation. Families were torn, people massacred. Thousands of Spaniards were tortured or executed by the Spanish Inquisition sponsored by their own rulers. Don't believe one moment that Greeks have suffered more than everyone else, or that Turks were worse than other rulers. I am sure that Russian peasants were worse off under the Tsarist rule at any time in history.

    Besides, as LeBrok mentioned, the actual Turks who invaded the old Byzatine Empire and became the new ruling class was an ethnic minority and their descendants, as Y-DNA showed, are still a minority among the people of Anatolia. You associate too readily names with people. Turk has two clearly distinct meanings : 1) person of Central Asian descent related to the Mongols, who became the ruling class of the Ottoman Empire ; 2) citizens of the modern state of Turkey, mostly of Anatolian descent.

    Why is it that you hold this kind of weird hereditary grudge against a whole nation of 70 million people for acts committed by a small minority in a distant past, when the rest of the world is moving on ? This is plain and simple xenophobia, if not racism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaiocapilos View Post
    You are right but I use expelled for both Greeks and Turks because it wasn't something they chose to do (leave their homes) but were forced to do it...
    The population exchange of 1923 between Greece and Turkey was a political decision made by the elected representatives of two democratic nations. How is it that I am explaining the functioning of democracy to a Greek ? If you have a problem with that complain to your government. Ordinary Turks have nothing to do with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian View Post
    just to fix. greeks was not expelled. it was a population exchange agreement between Atatürk (turkey) and Venizelos (greece).
    except the polis 1953-54
    I know cause my father study dentist at Istambul Univesrity, and play ball for Galata serai football club

    and the cyprus case of 1974

    And macciamo cyprus is not 90 years before its 36 years before 1 generation time,

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian View Post
    dont you think these two parts contradictary with each other.

    if there is no mix in 600 years why there will be a difference in the genetic background.
    Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say... different between who? Ionians greeks and turks? or Ionians greeks and other greeks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post

    Why is it that you hold this kind of weird hereditary grudge against a whole nation of 70 million people for acts committed by a small minority in a distant past, when the rest of the world is moving on ? This is plain and simple xenophobia, if not racism.
    Except the greek genocide was 100 years ago not 700. The progrom of constantinople happened in the 50's supported by the british, the cyprus issue, the threats of war if greece ever impliments its 12 km water boarder that it has the right to do, or the turkish war planes that fly over greek islands almost daily. Maciamo please you really think this dislike is because of what happened 700 years ago? do you see greeks hating people from venice because of the 4th crusade? no! So droped this snotty attitude of calling others xenpphobic and racist and do some research on why bad ralations exist and come down from your high horse.

    Here is an incident and comments that the turkish president said while going to the occupide norhern region of Cyprus;

    http://www.cyprusupdates.com/2011/07...-celebrations/

    He also said that if Cyprus assumes the E.U. presidency in 2012 he wil cut all ties with the E.U. This is just a bluff, but this showcases the kind of child this man is, and how the AKP party is taking Turkey down a scary path.

  12. #137
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - Z2110
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H28a

    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    It's time to learn to forget and forgive. Greece has been independent from the Ottoman Empire for nearly 180 years. The population exchange between Greece and Turkey happened 90 years ago. Any abuse that might have been committed by Turks in past centuries has nothing to do with modern Turks. If most Europeans don't hold a grudge against Germany for WWI and WWII anymore, how can you still be so xenophobic based on acts that happened hundreds of years ago ?

    You seem to forget that conquering armies and people in power have always abused people throughout history, no matter where. Why is it that the Chinese can forget/forgive that their emperors killed millions of its citizens to build the Great Wall, and that Mao killed over 20 millions in living memory due to its bad policies and forced relocalisations ? People in Germany, France and the Low Countries fought bitterly with each others, often at the local level, during the Protestant Reformation. Families were torn, people massacred. Thousands of Spaniards were tortured or executed by the Spanish Inquisition sponsored by their own rulers. Don't believe one moment that Greeks have suffered more than everyone else, or that Turks were worse than other rulers. I am sure that Russian peasants were worse off under the Tsarist rule at any time in history.

    Besides, as LeBrok mentioned, the actual Turks who invaded the old Byzatine Empire and became the new ruling class was an ethnic minority and their descendants, as Y-DNA showed, are still a minority among the people of Anatolia. You associate too readily names with people. Turk has two clearly distinct meanings : 1) person of Central Asian descent related to the Mongols, who became the ruling class of the Ottoman Empire ; 2) citizens of the modern state of Turkey, mostly of Anatolian descent.

    Why is it that you hold this kind of weird hereditary grudge against a whole nation of 70 million people for acts committed by a small minority in a distant past, when the rest of the world is moving on ? This is plain and simple xenophobia, if not racism.
    As a Greek, I fully agree with your point of view. I have numerous friends in Turkey, they are great people and cannot be blamed for whatever happened before they were born. However, it is important to understand that it is not always easy to "bury the hatchet" when your old "enemy" still violates your FIR on a daily basis and publicly rejects your lawful internationally recognised borders even to this date.
    When reviewing the situation from the comfort of W.Europe /N.America surrounded by "friendly" nations, it is easy to get carried away and become a little patronising, treating other's sensitivities in a dismissive way. It can be quite different when you live in the "hotzone" and you see your neighbour talking about ownership of the place your family has lived in for countless generations or about "ancient Turkish philosophers"...
    I am sure you have read in the international press that only a few months ago a scandal broke out in Turkey when it was revealed that their army had a plan to destabilise the country and overthrow the Government, a plan that include the invasion of a number of Greek (hence EU!) islands. Operation 'Sledgehammer" was the code name, look it up.
    I am all for calm and reconciliation but it takes good spirit from both sides, and the current status does not help.

    Now, back to the subject:

    So far I have tested positive for R1b (R-M269), awaiting my deep clade test results from FTDNA. My paternal origin is from a place at the Arcadia - Laconia border in the Peloponisos region. An interesting finding was the rather unusual value DYS393=11. If anyone has any information on the frequency of this particular marker in R1b individuals from Greece to send me, I would appreciate it. Thx.

    Best,
    E.

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    Greek language.

    Well teach us the turkish language while you are at it. Just ask your baba if you need help. Oh here i will start it for you.

    Here is your continuity

    TURKISH ENGLISH GREEK
    det Custom Adeti
    Afaroz Excommunicate Aforismos
    Aga Land owner Agas
    Ahmak Idiot Ahmakis
    Ahtapot Octopus Htapodi
    Alan Area, ground Alana
    Alarga Open sea, distant Alarga
    Aman For mercy's sake Aman
    Anadolu Anatolia (East in Greek) Anatoli
    Ananas Pineapple Ananas
    Anason Aniseed Anithos
    Anfora Anchor Amphoreus
    Angarya Forced labor Angaria
    Aptal Stupid Abdalis
    Apukurya Carnival Apokria
    Arap Negro, bogyman Arapis
    Arnavut Albanian Arnautis
    Asik Someone in love Asikis
    Atlet Athlete Athlitis
    Avanak Gullible, stupid Avanakis
    Ayran A drink Ariani
    Baba - Father - Babas
    Baca - Chimney - Batzias
    Bacak - Leg, leg of trousers in G.- Batzaki
    Bacanak - Brother in law - Batjanakis
    Baglama - A string instrument - Baglamas
    Bahce - Garden - Bahtses
    Bahsis - Tip - Baxisi
    Bakir - Copper - Bakiri
    Bakkal - Grocer - Bakkalis
    Baklava - Baklava - Baklavas
    Balta - Ax - Baltas
    Bamya - Okra - Bamia
    Barbunya - A fish - Barbunia
    Barut - Gunpowder - Baruti
    Battaniye - Woolen Blanket - Batania
    Batakci - Swindler - Bataxis
    Bayrak - Flag - Bairaki
    Bekar - Batchelor - Bekiaris
    Bekri - Drunk - Bekris
    Bela - Trouble - Belas
    Benzin - Petrol, gas - Benzina
    Bereket - Abundance, plenty - Bereket
    Beton - Concrete - Beton
    Bey - Mr. - Beis
    Bezelye - Pea - Bizeli
    Biber - Pepper - Piperi
    Biftek - Steak - Bifteki
    Bodrum - Cellar, dungeon - Boudroumi
    Bomba - Bomb - Bomba
    Bostan - Vegetable field, garden - Bostani
    Bora - Storm - Bora
    Boya - Paint - Bogia
    Borek - Pastry, pie - Boureki
    Bre - Hi, you - Vre
    Budala - Idiot - Boudalas
    Bulgur - Boiled wheat - Bligouri
    But - Thigh - Bouti
    Buz - Ice, very cold - Bouzi
    Buzuki - Bouzouki - Bouzouki
    Cacik - A drink with cucumbers- Tzatziki
    Caka - Swagger, vanity - Tsaka
    Cam - Window pane - Tzami
    Cami - Mosque - Tzami
    Cambaz - Acrobat, dealer in G.- Tzambazis
    Cenabet - Crabbed person - Tzanabetis
    Cep - Pocket - Tsepi
    Cereme - Fine or cost of damage- Tzeremes
    Cezve - Coffee Pot - Tzesves
    Ciger - Liver, lungs - Tziyeri
    Cimbiz - Tweezers - Tsimpida
    Cuce - Dwarf - Tsutzes
    Cadir - Tent - Tsiantiri
    Cakirkeyif - Slightly drunk - Tsakir-kefi
    Cali - Thorny plant - Tsiali
    Calim - Flexibility, show off - Tsalimi
    Cam - Pine tree - Tsami
    Canak - Shallow bowl - Tsanaki
    Canta - Handbag - Tsanta
    Capacul - Untidy - Tsapatulis
    Capari - Weight anchor - Tsapari
    Capkin - Seducer, coquettish - Tsahpinis
    Capraz - Crossed - Tsaprazi
    Cardak - Hut of dried branches - Tsardaki
    Carsi - Market - Charsi
    Carik - Rustic shoe - Tsarouhi
    Catal - Fork - Tsatala
    Catra Patra - Stumbling speech - Tsatra patra
    Cavus- Sergeant - Tsausis
    Cay - Tea - Tsai
    Celebi - Pleasant man, mentor - Tselebis
    Cember - Circle - Tsemperi
    Cengel - Hook - Tsingeli
    Ciklet - Chewing gum - Tsikla
    Ciftetelli- A dance - siftetelli
    Ciftlik - Large country estate - Tsifliki
    Cifit - Tight in money - Tsifoutis
    Cimento - Cement - Tsimento
    Cinko - Zinc - Tsingos
    Ciftlik - Big farm, property - Tsifliki
    Cirak - Apprentice - Tsiraki
    Cipura- A fish - Tsipura
    Ciroz - A fish - Tsiros
    Coban - Shepherd - Tsobanis
    Corap - Woolen sock- Tsurapis
    Corba - soup - Tsorbas
    Corek - Large bun - Tsoureki
    Cotra - File fish - Tsotra

    Ancient GREEK and Turkish are same? Go fool somebody else who dont know your fake identity.

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populat...ece_and_Turkey
    The 1923 population exchange between Greece and Turkey was based upon religious identity, and involved the Greek Orthodox citizens of Turkey and the Muslim citizens of Greece. It was a major compulsory population exchange, or agreed mutual expulsion.
    The "Convention Concerning the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations" was signed at Lausanne, Switzerland, on the 30th January 1923, by the governments of Greece and Turkey. It involved approximately 2 million people, most of whom were forcibly made refugees and de jure denaturalized from their homelands.

    The criteria for the population exchange was not excusively confined to ethnicity or mother language, but on religion as well. That is why the Karamanlides (Greek: Καραμανλήδες; Turkish: Karamanlılar), or simply Karamanlis, who were a Turkish-speaking (while they employed the Greek alphabet to write it) Greek Orthodox people of unclear origin and were deported from their native regions of Karaman and Cappadocia in Central Anatolia to Greece as well. On the other hand, Cretan Muslims who were part of the exchange were re-settled mostly on the Aegean coast of Turkey, in areas formerly inhabited by Christian Greeks. Populations of Greek descent can still be found in the Pontos, remnants of the former Greek population that converted to Islam in order to escape the persecution and later deportation. Though these two groups are of ethnic Greek descent, they speak Turkish as a mother language and are very cautious to identify themselves as Greeks, due to the hostility of the Turkish state and neighbours towards anything Greek.

    1914 document showing the official figures from the 1914 population census of the Ottoman Empire. The total population (sum of all the millets) was given at 20,975,345, and the Greek population was given at 1,792,206.




    And here is your Fake Greek enlightenment. The Fake Greeks.

    And the Greeks?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lbanian_origin
    Greeks (of Arvanite origin)
    Andreas Miaoulis
    Markos Botsaris
    Laskarina Bouboulina
    Nikolaos Krieziotis
    Xadziyiannis Mexis
    Pavlos Kountouriotis - First Greek President
    Kitsos Tzavelas
    Georgios Kountouriotis - Prime Minister of Greece under King Otto.
    Antonios Kriezis
    Dimitrios Voulgaris - He was thus one of the greatest exponents of the Modern Greek Enlightenment.
    Athanasios Miaoulis
    Diomidis Kiriakos
    Theodoros Pangalos
    Petros Voulgaris
    Alexandros Diomidis
    Nikos Engonopoulos
    Ieronymos II - Archbishop of Athens and All Greece.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_of_Greece (GERMAN)
    Otto Frederick, prince of Bavaria or Othon, king of Greece (Greek: Ὄθων, ΒασιλεὺςτῆςἙλλάδος, Óthon, Vasiléfs tis Elládos; 1 June 1815 – 26 July 1867) was made the first modern King of Greece in 1832 under the Convention of London, whereby Greece became a new independent kingdom under the protection of the Great Powers (the United Kingdom, France and the Russian Empire).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kolettis (VLACH)
    Ioannis Kolettis (Greek: ΙωάννηςΚωλέττης) (1773[citation needed] - 1847) was a Greek politician of Vlach origin who played a significant role in Greek affairs from the Greek War of Independence through the early years of the Greek Kingdom, including as Minister to France and serving twice as Prime Minister.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kapodistrias (Venetian)
    Count Ioannis Antonios Kapodistrias (Greek: ΚόμηςΙωάννηςΑντώνιοςΚαποδ ίστριας – Komis Ioannis Antonios Kapodistrias, in Italian: Giovanni Capo d'Istria, Conte Capo d'Istria, and in Russian: графИоаннКаподистрия – Graf Ioann Kapodistriya) (February 11, 1776 – October 9, 1831) was a Greek diplomat of the Russian Empire and later first head of state of independent Greece.
    Ioannis Kapodistrias was born in Corfu,(Κέρκυρα/Kerkyra in Greek), one of the Ionian Islands, which at the time of his birth were a possession of Venice . He studied medicine, philosophy and the law at Padua, in Italy. When he was 21 years old, in 1797, he started his medical practice as a doctor in his native island of Corfu. He was throughout his life a deeply liberal thinker and a true democrat, though born and raised as a nobleman. An ancestor of Kapodistrias' had been created a conte (count) by Charles Emmanuel II, Duke of Savoy, and the title was later (1679) inscribed in the Libro d'Oro of the Corfu nobility; the title originates from Capodistria, a city on the eastern shore of the Gulf of Venice, now Koper in Slovenia and the place of origin of Kapodistrias' family before they moved to Corfu in the 13th century where they changed their dogma from Catholic to Orthodox and they soon became hellenized. His family's name in Koper was Vitori or Vittori. His mother's family, the Gonemi, had been listed in the Libro d'Oro since 1606. In 1802 Ioannis Kapodistrias founded an important scientific and social progress organisation in Corfu, the "National Medical Association", of which he was an energetic member. In 1799, when Corfu was briefly occupied by the forces of Russia and Turkey, Kapodistrias was appointed chief medical director of the military hospital.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kavalliotis (Aromanian)
    Theodore Kavalliotis (Greek: Θεόδωρος Αναστασίου Καβαλλιώτης, Romanian: Teodor Kavalioti, 1718 – 11 August 1789) was a Greek Orthodox priest, teacher and a figure of the Greek Enlightenment. He is also known for having drafted an Aromanian-Greek-Albanian dictionary.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigas_Feraios (Aromanian)
    Rigas Feraios or Rigas Velestinlis (Greek: Ρήγας Βελεστινλής-Φεραίος, born Αντώνιος Κυριαζής, Antonios Kyriazis; also known as Κωνσταντίνος Ρήγας, Konstantinos or Constantine Rhigas; Serbian: Рига од Фере, Riga od Fere; 1757—June 13, 1798) was a Greek writer and revolutionary, an eminent figure of the Greek Enlightenment, remembered as a Greek national hero, the first victim of the uprising against the Ottoman Empire and a forerunner of the Greek War of Independence.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ent_Aromanians
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanites

    Just speak Greek and have Greek name then you belong to the ancient Greeks, easy and simple.



    The first constitution of Greece 1827.
    The 1st Constitution of the Greek State, in the year 1827.
    ??? —> 4. Provinces of Greece are all those that were taken and will be taken by weapons against the Ottoman Dynasty.
    1) —> 6. Greeks are:
    2) —> a. All those indigenous people of the Greek State who believe in Christ.
    3) —> b. All those, believers in Christ, who under the Ottoman slavery, came or they will come to the Greek State to struggle or to reside in it.
    4) —> e. All those aliens, who come and enrol as citizens.
    NOTE: To become a Greek, it was enough to be a Christian!
    This document proves that Greeks have a very short memory. They do not remember how the Greek State was made and also who the modern Greeks are.
    Why should we Macedonians have to prove that we are Macedonians since antiquity when the Greeks do not have to prove anything for being Greeks.
    The fact is that about 180 years ago anybody who was a Christian in the Greek State became a Greek automatically, why does that not bother the modern Greeks?
    You see, if someone was a Jew or a Muslim or a Catholic, he/she was excluded immediately. Let us now ask ourselves what is Greek racism and were did it come from?
    Just read the above document and you will know why, Greek is a manufactured ethnicity.


    November issue of National Geographic year 1925. The name of the article is “History’s Greatest Trek: Tragedy Stalks Through the Near East as Greece and Turkey Exchange Two Million of Their People” By Melville Chater.
    "the last-arriving Greek boys staring broadley at the last-departing Moslem boys, speech between them being impossible, since the Greeks spoke only Turkish and the Turkish spoke only Greek."

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    As you all can see there is no Greeks only adopted identity by other people who became Modern Greeks. What the modern Greeks did when exchanged the people with Turkey? Same people with other faith that was exchanged.

    Conclusion: Modern Greeks are not Ancient Greeks.

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    DejaVu,

    We've already been talking about how Greek the Ionians are based on their Y-DNA, have you been following? Basically, it seems that their concentrations are more contiguous with Southern Greeks than they are with Turks. Notice the levels of J1 (too low for Turks) and E1b (too high for Turks) in particular. The missing piece of the puzzle to be completely certain that they are very Greek as opposed to having significant Anatolian input are the relative concentrations of their R1b subclades. It's looking to me like they do have an Anatolian input, but not so significant to be able to say that they aren't principally Greek by background.

    And what's the deal with citing language? That's not what we're talking about here, and it doesn't prove much. Of course Greek is Indo-European, and of course they've adopted some words from Turkish (and probably vice-versa). Greeks and Turks are right next to each other, after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    DejaVu,

    We've already been talking about how Greek the Ionians are based on their Y-DNA, have you been following? Basically, it seems that their concentrations are more contiguous with Southern Greeks than they are with Turks. Notice the levels of J1 (too low for Turks) and E1b (too high for Turks) in particular. The missing piece of the puzzle to be completely certain that they are very Greek as opposed to having significant Anatolian input are the relative concentrations of their R1b subclades. It's looking to me like they do have an Anatolian input, but not so significant to be able to say that they aren't principally Greek by background.

    And what's the deal with citing language? That's not what we're talking about here, and it doesn't prove much. Of course Greek is Indo-European, and of course they've adopted some words from Turkish (and probably vice-versa). Greeks and Turks are right next to each other, after all.
    The guessing game is over. Where is the DNA found of Ionians? Can you link to the site where it have been found? If not dont even bother writing anything about it. HG J1 is from Arabs that settled or raped the inhabitants in Greece. The Ottoman Empire was not only Turkish, it also included others like Arabs and many more.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias2 View Post
    Except the greek genocide was 100 years ago not 700. The progrom of constantinople happened in the 50's
    Yeah, a terrible massacre, right. About 15 people died. More people die everyday from traffic accident in a country like Turkey. And the pogrom was caused by the bombing of Atatürk's birthplace in Greece the day before. Is that your reason to hate the Turks today ? Frankly, 15 people ?

    the cyprus issue
    Cyprus isn't Greece. Anyway things have been rather quiet there for 2 or 3 decades.


    the threats of war if greece ever impliments its 12 km water boarder that it has the right to do, or the turkish war planes that fly over greek islands almost daily.
    Are you kidding me ? Can you imagine Turkey declaring war on an EU member state ? That's just blabber intended as intimidation. I think that both sides, Greek and Turkish, are to be blamed for their poor relations. From outside it looks like a playground quarrel. It's highly political and I don't see why ordinary Greeks and Turks should (still) hate each others.

    Do you realise how childish some Greek members on this forum look like ? It's impossible to have a peaceful, rational discussion about Greek DNA here. I think only the Spaniards here are worse in this regard (and I had to ban a few to calm things down - or possibly the same guy, who quickly created yet another account as soon as the offending trio was banned).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Yeah, a terrible massacre, right. About 15 people died. More people die everyday from traffic accident in a country like Turkey. And the pogrom was caused by the bombing of Atatürk's birthplace in Greece the day before. Is that your reason to hate the Turks today ? Frankly, 15 people ?



    Cyprus isn't Greece. Anyway things have been rather quiet there for 2 or 3 decades.




    Are you kidding me ? Can you imagine Turkey declaring war on an EU member state ? That's just blabber intended as intimidation. I think that both sides, Greek and Turkish, are to be blamed for their poor relations. From outside it looks like a playground quarrel. It's highly political and I don't see why ordinary Greeks and Turks should (still) hate each others.

    Do you realise how childish some Greek members on this forum look like ? It's impossible to have a peaceful, rational discussion about Greek DNA here. I think only the Spaniards here are worse in this regard (and I had to ban a few to calm things down - or possibly the same guy, who quickly created yet another account as soon as the offending trio was banned).
    it is not 15 people,
    15 people is the 'official'

    about 250 000 expelt from Polis,
    my fathers say about using small knifes and attack at the but, they never attack him, for he was famous due to football,
    but all his friends had wounds at their buts,
    besides how you are sure that greeks bombed Kemal house,
    the area is considered relic and about 5-8 houses around there are from 1900 and do not re[lace them,
    what about if it was a Turkish provoke?
    or even a bigger one,
    remember that after 1-2 years we have the strange of the Greek king bitten by monkey, but his bodyguard shot,
    and the poison of sofocles Venizelos,
    so surely if it was not Turkish provoke it was a Big force action

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    DEjavu

    so if Greeks speak with words like Dobro meso telece maiko tatko yentan and change name to -ic or -ov then they will be Greeks?

    you are funny,

    if your grand father change language to slavic, and followed dusan or Cimeon that does mean that All Makedonians do the same,

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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    The guessing game is over. Where is the DNA found of Ionians? Can you link to the site where it have been found? If not dont even bother writing anything about it. HG J1 is from Arabs that settled or raped the inhabitants in Greece. The Ottoman Empire was not only Turkish, it also included others like Arabs and many more.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire
    The main source is King, et al, see archaiocapilos, he has been pretty good in compiling these. To be clear, King, et al doesn't exactly provide us with Ionian-specific Y-DNA with subclades in a way that would make us entirely clear about them.

    I doubt J1 in Turkey is entirely from Arabs, but the spread of J1 is a good point against what I was saying. The E1b is still a sticking point though, and I still say we need R1b subclades to know more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    The main source is King, et al, see archaiocapilos, he has been pretty good in compiling these. To be clear, King, et al doesn't exactly provide us with Ionian-specific Y-DNA with subclades in a way that would make us entirely clear about them.

    I doubt J1 in Turkey is entirely from Arabs, but the spread of J1 is a good point against what I was saying. The E1b is still a sticking point though, and I still say we need R1b subclades to know more.

    there is enough J1 in cucas that reach >60 in some areas and is not Semitic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Yeah, a terrible massacre, right. About 15 people died. More people die everyday from traffic accident in a country like Turkey. And the pogrom was caused by the bombing of Atatürk's birthplace in Greece the day before. Is that your reason to hate the Turks today ? Frankly, 15 people ?
    The death toll of the greek genocide was between 250,000 to 350,000 people, not 15.

    The bombing of Attaturks house was done by a turk with the goal to incite violence against the greeks in con/polios and drive them out. It was all planned;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_Pogrom

    At the same time of this violence against the greeks in con/polis, the turkish minority in thrace wasn't harmed. The two populations avoided the population exchange between the two countries after WW1 as said by the treaty of lousianne.



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Cyprus isn't Greece. Anyway things have been rather quiet there for 2 or 3 decades.
    Cyrpus isn't greece but has greeks in it. Things have only been quiet because you don't read cypriot news. Cyprus has been at the end of continual threats of war from turkey due to maritime boundaries and natural gas resources. Turkey doesn't recognize Cyprus as a seperate country has have 40 thousand troops in the northern occupied parts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Are you kidding me ? Can you imagine Turkey declaring war on an EU member state ? That's just blabber intended as intimidation. I think that both sides, Greek and Turkish, are to be blamed for their poor relations. From outside it looks like a playground quarrel. It's highly political and I don't see why ordinary Greeks and Turks should (still) hate each others.
    Allow me to give another example on why greeks don't look at turks very kindly. The patriach Bartholomew, who is a turkish citizen, is the "pope" of not just greeks but every orthodox person. He is forced to have 24 hours protection and his conplex in Constantinopolis has high fences with bared wire because he receives constant death threat and actual assassination attempts from turkish fanatics. This tradition of the patriarch has been around since christianity started yet turks don't respect him or his position and what he stands for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Do you realise how childish some Greek members on this forum look like ? It's impossible to have a peaceful, rational discussion about Greek DNA here. I think only the Spaniards here are worse in this regard (and I had to ban a few to calm things down - or possibly the same guy, who quickly created yet another account as soon as the offending trio was banned).
    Go ahead and ban me if you think I'm being childish because I don't want to be classified as a turk. I am not a turk, my parents were not turks, nor my grandparents. They came from a classical greek region that doesn't exist anymore due to war and ethnic "purging" of christians in asia minor during ww1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    As you all can see there is no Greeks only adopted identity by other people who became Modern Greeks. What the modern Greeks did when exchanged the people with Turkey? Same people with other faith that was exchanged.

    Conclusion: Modern Greeks are not Ancient Greeks.

    "The 1911 edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica gave the following statistical estimates about the population of Macedonia:

    • Bulgarians (described in encyclopaedia as "Slavs, the bulk of which is regarded by almost all independent sources as Bulgarians", a statement referring to the controversy between Bulgaria and Serbia as to the national affinities of the Slavs of Macedonia): ca. 1,150,000, whereof, 1,000,000 Orthodox and 150,000 Muslims (called Pomaks)
    • Turks: ca. 500,000 (Muslims)
    • Greeks: ca. 250,000, whereof ca. 240,000 Orthodox and 14,000 Muslims
    • Albanians: ca. 120,000, whereof 10,000 Orthodox and 110,000 Muslims
    • Vlachs: ca. 90,000 Orthodox and 3,000 Muslims
    • Jews: ca. 75,000
    • Roma: ca. 50,000, whereof 35,000 Orthodox and 15,000 Muslims

    In total 1,300,000 Christians (almost exclusively Orthodox), 800,000 Muslims, 75,000 Jews, a total population of ca. 2,200,000 for the whole of Macedonia."


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Macedonia

    There, I highlighted for you the real macedonians of macedonia in 1911.

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    Cyprus case is ancient that goes to the times of Myth,

    Arcado-Cypriots who dwell the Greece are older than History, besides Greek that devastate to cyprus is a well known Historical,

    Both population belong to wider meaning Hellenick nation, although each has its own line route.
    there are many areas where Greeks as a wider meaning exist,

    It is not a lie to say that some areas have recon Greek id with another one,

    for example italy has plenty Greeks, but they are recognised as local, they live in a democratic country, and all are Italian citizens, they follow the line route of Italy,
    these people are considered in wider Greek nation as also In Italian but only in Italian state,
    Italy is not declining the origin, so everything is near ok
    These people lived and live in Italy so their Genes belong to Italian peninsula, by land model,
    and the their state officially recons an ancient Greek population so it is ok,
    so the model of land origin gives correct data,
    but the Ionian Greeks moved devastate, and belong to Greece,
    so the model of land origin might be correct giving the area, but a second model with added the genes that devastate gives better result in search for relatives, and a map of genes,

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