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Thread: Who were the Thracians?

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    I'm very well aware E-V13 is predominantly found in Europeans; there are good studies on E3b in Greece, frequencies can go as high as 35% in central/southern regions. Such high European frequencies can only be matched in Altamura Italy (32%) and in parts of Iberia or Albania, PARTS, which does not define a "national" level.

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    U should always specify coz they are totally different,R1a is not Slavic at all ,only two of it subgroups R-M458 and R-Z280 are associated with Slavs, there is also a group associated with Viking, one with Jews, one with South Arabs and the rest is Central and South Asia. They have nothing to do with each other, totally different people.
    Also from 22% Bulgarian E 18.1 % is E-V13 so from roughly 30-35% Greek E, E-V13 is at the most 25-26% at far less then by Albos,also in crete and other islands it is really less.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Good study is minimum 500 samples ,most Greek studies are 30-60 people

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    Also it is important the country not a region and E-V13 is not high at all in Iberia. It is other E there, it is not big in Italy either, in Croatia and Austria should be bigger, it is Balkan and Central European marker observed also in Italy and parts of France and Britain and Eastern Europe :)

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Yes I can not understand how this forum allows people to give negative points for whatever they want . I guess I should start giving negative points to Albanian and Western European comments, just like this? Ofc not I am a man :)
    I want moderators to check who is giving me negative points and give them warning and negative points. I demand this, I have insulted nobody and propaganda of West Balkan nationalists or West European R1b supermacist insults me
    No, no. I quoted Garrick I think. You are safe :) No negative points on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    E-V13 is a sub-clade of E-M78;
    In fact E-V13 is one of the confirmed Neolithic Hg's (along with G2a and I2a1) of Europe;
    In 2011 E-V13 was found at a Neolithic site [5th mil. BC] as far west as Spain;

    Lacan et al 2011 - Neolithic Spain
    http://www.pnas.org/content/early/20....full.pdf+html


    E-V13 being in Neolithic Europe and that far spread;
    Def. means it was already in Balkans before the emergence of the Indo-European Thracians;
    As I understand, there were found four G2 , one E-M35, and one E-V13. They could have easily transported there with ships from Levant. Tthe location of the sample could also be indicative of pedestrian group crossing Gibraltar. It's not good enough for me, yet. They'd have to find +5000 BC of E-V13 in the Alps and +6000 BC in Balkans for that theory to be plausible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    E E-V13,R-L23 and J2b2 are Balkan and local. R1a is not local, and it is not Thrachian. E-V13 is Balkan group, for the last 7000 years all civilization in the Balkan is full with a lot of E-V13 and R-L23 :)
    Not according to Klysov. He places R1a as oldest in Balkans, back to 10 kya.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    As I understand, there were found four G2 , one E-M35, and one E-V13. They could have easily transported there with ships from Levant. Tthe location of the sample could also be indicative of pedestrian group crossing Gibraltar. It's not good enough for me, yet. They'd have to find +5000 BC of E-V13 in the Alps and +6000 BC in Balkans for that theory to be plausible.
    Thats for sure;
    The more data the better and more precise the reconstruction;
    But these 2 studies are good starters and also reveal a lot; But more must follow;

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    I've read the article. It says that Albanian language didn't change for last 12.000 years, and that it was spoken in Egypt, but it also says it was IE language. How do we reconcile these two?

    BTW someone is giving you negative points for this, and that is really lame. This is argumentative conversation, and that behavior indicates political propaganda without critical thinking.
    I give Albanians sources. I said it is a complex matter and simplifications are not good, but this is Internet and it is impossible that someone writes always widely and detailed. Albanian language is placed in Indo-European languages, it is a branch by itself. And in this language there are influences of Afro-Asiatic languages, and it is logical.

    Everyone has the right to evaluate what she or he thinks. This is a forum and people have different views and it is natural.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Yes I can not understand how this forum allows people to give negative points for whatever they want . I guess I should start giving negative points to Albanian and Western European comments, just like this? Ofc not I am a man :)
    I want moderators to check who is giving me negative points and give them warning and negative points. I demand this, I have insulted nobody and propaganda of West Balkan nationalists or West European R1b supermacist insults me
    Click "Settings" at the top right, and scroll down to "Latest Reputation Received." What do you see?

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    We all know that Yaan, E-M81 is prevalent in north-western Africa and Iberia (it and it's subclades) and low trace frequencies as well in Siclily, and E-M78 (northeastern Africa) has subclades in the Middle East and Greece/Balkans and southern Italy as well; I've said it many times, Yaan.

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    In Croatia and Austria the overall E-V13 frequencies are "higher"? As a whole E3b must only affect,what? 10% of men in both those nations?

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    Thracians Had European black hair ( instead of the pitch black asian colour), and either blue, grey or green eyes. In majority their hair was straight and they wore it in the "top knot" style.

    The thracians traded for red haired women ( as noted ancient historians )

    http://www.academia.edu/738235/Odyrs...nt_and_tactics
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Yes I can not understand how this forum allows people to give negative points for whatever they want . I guess I should start giving negative points to Albanian and Western European comments, just like this? Ofc not I am a man :)
    I want moderators to check who is giving me negative points and give them warning and negative points. I demand this, I have insulted nobody and propaganda of West Balkan nationalists or West European R1b supermacist insults me
    Every has right to vote how wants. Unfortunately the quality of what you said for someone is not important in comparison to other motives. In other words whatever you say convincingly, reasonable and based on the facts gets negative points because it does not fit into someone's dogma. But it doesn't matter.

    Robert Axelrod claim that the key to dong well lies not in overcoming others, but eliciting their cooperation. According to Cristoph Adami evolution punishes people who are selfish and mean. Evolution cancels those who do not want to cooperate.

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    I found this really interesting. Thracians / Dacians seem to have a very interesting story and not as well known/promoted as much as other ancient groups around Europe. They seem to have been somehow intertwined one way or another with Greek and Roman histories. Spartacus was from Thrace too This documentary has subtitles.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxjwMKqkeAM
    Last edited by Maleth; 26-06-15 at 14:47.

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_pit_of_Garlo

    An interesting monument, the sacred pit of Garlo, it's been associated by many archeologists with the hundreds of Nuragic water well temples found in Sardinia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo Pozza View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_pit_of_Garlo

    An interesting monument, the sacred pit of Garlo, it's been associated by many archeologists with the hundreds of Nuragic water well temples found in Sardinia.
    Giacomo, you think there was a connection between Thracains and the Nuragic culture of Sardinia?. Another documentary on the Thracians stated that they traded as far as Denmark and at one time had a strong fleet and traded also in the Peloponnese.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Giacomo, you think there was a connection between Thracains and the Nuragic culture of Sardinia?. Another documentary on the Thracians stated that they traded as far as Denmark and at one time had a strong fleet and traded also in the Peloponnese.
    Yes, I think so, recent discoveries proved that the Nuragics traded far and wide, their pottery has been found as far as Cyprus, Atlantic Spain, Continental italy, Tyrins, Crete and different other locations: A recent study (2013) of 71 ancientSwedish bronze objects dated to Nordic Bronze Age, revealed that most of copper utilized at that time in Scandinavia came from Sardinia and the Iberian peninsula.[29].

    Recently a whole city was discovered under the site of monte prama, where the Nuragic statues were found, the Nuragic even imported melons (which have been dated with C14 to 1320-1150 bc) from Africa or the Near east.

    For these and many other reasons they are believed by many to be one of the most mentioned sea people: the Sherden.

    Now we know that probably most of the sea people were Agean/Mycenean and we know that the Nuragics arrived in those regions and vice versa many myceneans came to Sardinia, Thracians were probably culturally close to the sea people as well, being so close to Mycenean Greece, so I think it's reasonable to think they've met.

    Plus that sacred pit has been compared by a Bulgarian archeologist to another one in Sardinia (I think the one in Ballao), which looks almost identical to it and they are dated to a similar period too, perhaps the one in Sardinia is a little older (1250 bc), compared to the one in Bulgaria (1100-1000 bc).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo Pozza View Post
    Yes, I think so, recent discoveries proved that the Nuragics traded far and wide, their pottery has been found as far as Cyprus, Atlantic Spain, Continental italy, Tyrins, Crete and different other locations: A recent study (2013) of 71 ancientSwedish bronze objects dated to Nordic Bronze Age, revealed that most of copper utilized at that time in Scandinavia came from Sardinia and the Iberian peninsula.[29].

    Recently a whole city was discovered under the site of monte prama, where the Nuragic statues were found, the Nuragic even imported melons (which have been dated with C14 to 1320-1150 bc) from Africa or the Near east.

    For these and many other reasons they are believed by many to be one of the most mentioned sea people: the Sherden.

    Now we know that probably most of the sea people were Agean/Mycenean and we know that the Nuragics arrived in those regions and vice versa many myceneans came to Sardinia, Thracians were probably culturally close to the sea people as well, being so close to Mycenean Greece, so I think it's reasonable to think they've met.

    Plus that sacred pit has been compared by a Bulgarian archeologist to another one in Sardinia (I think the one in Ballao), which looks almost identical to it and they are dated to a similar period too, perhaps the one in Sardinia is a little older (1250 bc), compared to the one in Bulgaria (1100-1000 bc).
    That is all quite interesting and I am sure there is so much we need to find out on ancient peoples interactions as the remains found can tell a thousand stories. In Malta we have an unusual construction who some have even claimed it could be handed down as a Nuragic design from generation to generation. These were used as shelter from Sun and Rain and to store tools when farmers had to go long distances to tend their fields and maybe hunting. They are called girnas.

    http://www.stoneshelter.org/stone/girna.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    That is all quite interesting and I am sure there is so much we need to find out on ancient peoples interactions as the remains found can tell a thousand stories. In Malta we have an unusual construction who some have even claimed it could be handed down as a Nuragic design from generation to generation. These were used as shelter from Sun and Rain and to store tools when farmers had to go long distances to tend their fields and maybe hunting. They are called girnas.

    http://www.stoneshelter.org/stone/girna.htm
    I think those look like early Nuragic constructions, have they been dated yet?, they look like the proto Nuraghi (2000-1700 bc), this is an example: http://www.megalithic.co.uk/a558/a31...tonuraghe3.JPG
    And this is a single tower Nuraghe (1500 bc): http://www.catturalasardegna.it/albu...succoronis.jpg
    They both look extremely alike to those structures you've just posted.


    This is really interesting, I found this on wikipedia: Around the end of the third millennium BC, Sardinia exported towards Sicily a Culture that built small dolmens, trilithic or polygonal shaped, that served as tombs as it has been ascertained in the Sicilian dolmen of Cava dei Servi. From this region they reached Malta island and other countries of Mediterranean basin.[63]



    I

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo Pozza View Post
    I think those look like early Nuragic constructions, have they been dated yet?, they look like the proto Nuraghi (2000-1700 bc), this is an example: http://www.megalithic.co.uk/a558/a31...tonuraghe3.JPG
    And this is a single tower Nuraghe (1500 bc): http://www.catturalasardegna.it/albu...succoronis.jpg
    They both look extremely alike to those structures you've just posted.


    This is really interesting, I found this on wikipedia: Around the end of the third millennium BC, Sardinia exported towards Sicily a Culture that built small dolmens, trilithic or polygonal shaped, that served as tombs as it has been ascertained in the Sicilian dolmen of �Cava dei Servi�. From this region they reached Malta island and other countries of Mediterranean basin.[63]I
    Very interesting and they look similar indeed. Its a pity that no study is conclusive but its very probable. Many of them have been restored as they were falling into ruins, but I never came across any serious write ups about their story. Maltese pre history revolves soley on the Megalithic temples of 5600 bp (which are a mystery in themselves) and the cart ruts (another mystery) http://www.cartrutsmalta.com/. I think the girnas deserve similar attention.

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