Scots, how Celtic are they?

I've read that most of the Scots are descendants from the Picts, and some are from the Celts? I have a Scottish heritage but I am not really sure about the origins of it.
 
I've read that most of the Scots are descendants from the Picts, and some are from the Celts? I have a Scottish heritage but I am not really sure about the origins of it.

The Picts are generally understood to have been Celts, but not Gaels per se. Gaels are Celts that have historically spoken the Gaelic language, which belongs to a specific branch of the Celtic languages. The Gaelic presence and culture in Scotland is heavily linked to the Gaels of Ireland (in fact, as mentioned above, there appears to have been quite a bit of travel back and forth). The Gaelic-speaking kingdom of the Dal Riata included parts of both land masses.
 
The Picts are generally understood to have been Celts, but not Gaels per se. Gaels are Celts that have historically spoken the Gaelic language, which belongs to a specific branch of the Celtic languages. The Gaelic presence and culture in Scotland is heavily linked to the Gaels of Ireland (in fact, as mentioned above, there appears to have been quite a bit of travel back and forth). The Gaelic-speaking kingdom of the Dal Riata included parts of both land masses.

Scots also have some (Germanic) Viking and Anglo-Saxon ancestry. The Germanic influence is greatest in the southeast of Scotland and in the Orkney and Shetland islands. Although it is not a perfect measurement tool (as exceptions can be found), it can generally be estimated that the areas of Scotland that have preserved Celtic languages the longest are likely to be the areas with the greatest amount of Celtic ancestry.
 
JohnnieMc73;467243[SIZE=2 said:
the people of Argyll and the Hebrides shared cultural and genetic heritige with Northern Ireland. [/SIZE]


I know the paper research for my Scottish ancestry leads to Argyll for generations (Lochgoilhead, Tarbet, surrounding area), Campbell surname. I had my uncle's DNA tested, and his paternal grandfather was from Scotland. His haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f*, and 23andme says:

Haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2f2 reaches its peak in Ireland, where the vast majority of men carry Y-chromosomes belonging to the haplogroup. Researchers have recently discovered that a large subset of men assigned to the haplogroup may be direct male descendants of an Irish king who ruled during the 4th and early 5th centuries. According to Irish history, a king named Niall of the Nine Hostages established the Ui Neill dynasty that ruled the island country for the next millennium.
Northwestern Ireland is said to have been the core of Niall's kingdom; and that is exactly where men bearing the genetic signature associated with him are most common. About 17% of men in northwestern Ireland have Y-chromosomes that are exact matches to the signature, and another few percent vary from it only slightly. In New York City, a magnet for Irish immigrants during the 19th and early 20th century, 2% of men have Y-chromosomes matching the Ui Neill signature. Genetic analysis suggests that all these men share a common ancestor who lived about 1,700 years ago. Among men living in northwestern Ireland today that date is closer to 1,000 years ago. Those dates neatly bracket the era when Niall is supposed to have reigned.
Outside Ireland, R1b1b2a1a2f2 is relatively common only along the west coast of Britain.

How would I go about looking for that M222 thing? I'm not too familiar with how to look at the raw data..
 
I know the paper research for my Scottish ancestry leads to Argyll for generations (Lochgoilhead, Tarbet, surrounding area), Campbell surname. I had my uncle's DNA tested, and his paternal grandfather was from Scotland. His haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f*, and 23andme says:



How would I go about looking for that M222 thing? I'm not too familiar with how to look at the raw data..

Open your 23AndMe raw data and look for the SNP Rs20321. If you see an "A" there, then that is M222. If it is a G, then it is not.
 
Nope, no M222 on the Scottish line.
 
If you want to talk originally the Scots are as Celtic as can be. They were Gaels and were the last Celtic tribe who were in northern Ireland before they set up the kingdom of Dal Riata in SW scotland. Both Irish Book of Invasions and the Scottish origin has them dwelling in Spain before coming to Ireland. And that history has been called just a myth. But haha look at history and the genomes It starts to become true scripture. The Scots even attribute origin to greater Scythia which can't even be refuted anymore, the proof is in the pudding. The thing.
 
It's over time they would've absorbed other genomes to make it what it is today i.e. Picts,Britons, angles, Vikings.
 
In western Europe, people who have been little or nothing Romanized preserve an old culture that more than Celtic could be said atlantic, north of portugal, galicia, asturias, brittany, ireland, scotland and some other area in the British Isles preserve this old culture Atlantica, which is often called Celtic, but I believe that Celtic would not be the most correct since this denomination is being used excessively.
 
Yes but it would be better described as maybe an Atlantic branch of Celtic maybe. The problem with the Celts is that they were never unified. The areas that they inhabited at one time spread from Galatia in Anatolia to Galicia in Spain, to Galicia in Poland, and all the way to the British Isles. They were basically the first settlement of Indo European Nomadic warriors that spread into Europe and absolved whatever was there before. They were originally part of the great Scythian horde that swept into Europe. But just to be clear Scythia was just an area denoted by Greek historians, the number and size of all the different tribes will probably never be revealed. The fact of the matter is that they were conquerors and spread culture with them.
 
And the culture and language that was spread was basically different branches of celtic. The funny thing is if you ask a Scotsman if he's a Celt or Gael he'll probably yell Im a Scot!
 
And the culture and language that was spread was basically different branches of celtic. The funny thing is if you ask a Scotsman if he's a Celt or Gael he'll probably yell Im a Scot!
Probably depends on what region you are from. I personally consider myself Scots-Gealic/Brythonic; Brythonic because I have Englishmen in me also. My Great Grandpa Archibald MacDonald's (1920-1992) ancestors Immigrated to London from the Highlands.
 
Should be Gaelic/Brythonic/Germanic then if you have English or Anglo-Saxon in you. It's probably really rare to have a scot without Germanic in him anyway. Whether it's Anglo-Saxon or Viking, definitely depends on the region
 
^^^ You forgot about Pictish ancestry.
 
Is there any new details on what the Picts were? They have certain DNA markers that signify them from all the other populations in Scotland, but from what I've read is they are most likely just a different branch of Celtic.
 
Is there any new details on what the Picts were? They have certain DNA markers that signify them from all the other populations in Scotland, but from what I've read is they are most likely just a different branch of Celtic.
There is no DNA identified as being from culturally celtic place, or as variety of celtic groups. Though Hinxton4 could have been, I'm not sure. I would guess, genetically they looked very close to modern Irish or Scotish. And if what I see is true, then it means that celtic genetics and probably language had beginning in Western Corded Ware.
 
Yes but it would be better described as maybe an Atlantic branch of Celtic maybe. The problem with the Celts is that they were never unified. The areas that they inhabited at one time spread from Galatia in Anatolia to Galicia in Spain, to Galicia in Poland, and all the way to the British Isles. They were basically the first settlement of Indo European Nomadic warriors that spread into Europe and absolved whatever was there before. They were originally part of the great Scythian horde that swept into Europe. But just to be clear Scythia was just an area denoted by Greek historians, the number and size of all the different tribes will probably never be revealed. The fact of the matter is that they were conquerors and spread culture with them.

Typical Celts were not the first I-E reaching West Europe; language teach us they surely were an alpine specialisation of a western group influenced by older waves of I-E.s who after evolution left people speaking Northwest dialects (Benelux, later mixed with true Celts and some Germanics among the Belgae medley, maybe some descendants pre-Celts in Britain), Lusitanian and Ligurian and other gone dialects without written traces. I wonder if the celtic languages despite they are not the first ones, were not older than some so called celtic elites later come from Steppes with maybe new Eurasian people input, at least at Iron times (Hallstatt?)?
The Scythian story is maybe not completely clueless: some late influence not without a tiny genetic input? That said I doubt Scot name is issued from Scythe name, for phonetic reasons, but who can be sure? Perhaps Taranis could tell us something here?
The Celtic legends of Britain mix a North-African and Iberian journey with Scythes ancestors, apparently gallic-brythonic names of tribes and others; surely not completely false, but with unsure chronology at least...
the ratio gedrosia/caucasus componant in auDNA admixtures runs among Celts and Germans is interesting compared to other European people (I gained a high notoriety in other forums for my "naivety" n this subject) but the lack of east-asian input seem discarding recent Scythes; maybe only people of the western Steppes labelled 'Scythians' by mistake or generalisating assimilation?
 
The vast area of Scythia compared to the Scythians within in it are two different things, so a generalisation for sure. The Scots do t call themselves Scythians here is a excerpt from the Declaration of Arbroath
"They journeyed from Greater Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage tribes, but nowhere could they be subdued by any race, however barbarous.
So they don't denote them being Scythian, they just denote greater Scythia as being a place they journeyed from. This correlates exactly with the spread of the R1b haplogroup that the Scots/Irish are predominantly. The area of Scythia was a vast area around the black sea and was only given the name Scythia from Herodotus in the 7th century B.C.
So think how many tribes of Indo-Europeans had been flooding in from the steppes before 7th century B.C. The Scythians at that time were more related to Iranian they say. Another thing to note was the presence of Cimmerian's in that area which I've learned could've branched off much earlier with the oncoming presence of Scythians proper. The BBC actually did a t.v. series many years ago just called "Celts" and the Cimmerian's were mentioned as the forebearers of the Celts!
Hmmm interesting stuff but the proof is in the pudding and the pudding is blood pudding. The Scots/Irish know they came from the steppes!
 
I made an error at the top it's supposed to say the Scots DON'T call themselves Scythian.
 
It's a bit aside but I often keep on reading here and there people making links between Cimmerians, Cymru and Cimbri; personally, aside the name of Cimbri which seems Celtic to me, I think Cimbri were of Celtic culture too, against the mainstream dogma. But I doubt Cimmerian name has something to do with Cymry from *Ken(m)-brogi, a late enough name (late at least in Britain where it seems being the name of a new aggregation of small tribes, on the model of the Franks who were a new grouping of Germanics); late name in Britain, but a tribe of Combrogi existed among Gauls.
 

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