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Thread: Dodecad project : highest percentage for each admixture

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    LOL. I don't know where you got your maps from - please provide some links -, but on this map (posted by YOU) Georgians are closer to East Europe than Iberians (Basque and Spain) are!
    What map are you looking at? The one you put up was cut off at the bottom, where the Georgian cluster is. Wilhelm's map (it may be from Dienekes, but I'll let him confirm that) shows that Georgians are indeed very distant from Eastern Europeans and, by comparison, Spaniards much closer. What kind of childish game are you playing here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundis View Post
    What are you talking about? Just because Spaniards have slightly higher African affinities than Georgians doesn't mean a thing. Georgians have only 30% Euro compared to over 90% for Spaniards.
    So what honey?? Georgians are 75 % West Asian and not 70 % like you are saying. Get your numbers straight. Spaniards are still more African!!! The thing is that you don't like this fact and hate it, but I don't care a damn.

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    BTW, researchers generally consider anything below 2% as "genetic noise".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    So what honey?? Georgian are 75% West Asian and not 70%. You're still more African!!! The thing is that you don't like this fact and hate it, but I don't care a damn.
    Single digit percentages of X or Y do not matter since the European scores are overwhelmingly dominant for Spain, as is the case for all Western European countries. There is no liking or hating on this issue from me or anyone else. I really don't understand where you are coming from. What's the problem? People are just interpreting results through use of generally accepted scientific tools.
    Last edited by Cambrius (The Red); 30-08-11 at 18:06.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    So what honey?? Georgians are 75 % West Asian and not 70 % like you are saying. Get your numbers straight. Spaniards are still more African!!! The thing is that you don't like this fact and hate it, but I don't care a damn.
    Oh, my mistake. Like 5% is going to make a world of difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundis View Post
    What's the problem?
    I don't care about Africans (absolutely nothing wrong with them), but some fellas here claimed that West Asians are more African than the Mediterranean folks. And that's just false!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundis View Post
    Oh, my mistake. Like 5% is going to make a world of difference.
    Everything, every precious West Asian % of DNA is sacred to me.

    I really don't understand where you are coming from.
    I'm 100 % West Asian, baby. But I live in Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    I don't care about Africans (absolutely nothing wrong with them), but some fellas here claimed that West Asians are more African than the Mediterranean folks. And that's just false!
    I could care less who has what. If you show Euro scores in the mid to high 80's and low 90s (as is the case in the western side of Europe) it's pretty darn clear what you are genetically. Posters are just trying to make certain that the results are being presented accurately.

    If you have issues with Eupedia member interpretations, please, go ask people like Dienekes, Dr. McDonald, or Harvard Medical School, Johns Hopkins, UCal Berkeley, etc. Let them give you their expert opinions.

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    @ Goga

    100% West Asian? Lovely, I'm quite happy for you.

    Party hardy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundis View Post
    I could care less who has what. If you show Euro scores in the mid to high 80's and low 90s (as is the case in the western end of Europe) it's pretty darn clear what you are genetically. Posters are just trying to make certain that the results are being presented accurately.

    If you have issues with Eupedia member interpretations, please, go ask people like Dienekes, Dr. McDonald, or Harvard Medical School, Johns Hopkins, UCal Berkeley, etc. Let them give you their expert opinions.
    Lol, It's not necessary. I'm not going to spent some money on this trash. I know who I'm, I'm not conphused like some fellas. I'm 100 % 24 carat pure West Asian. ALL my ancestors were 24 carat pure West Asian and from the same pure noble RACE too. My roots are in Northwest Asia (north Mesopotamia not far from the Caucasus) and are dating back from the dawn of time. 10000, 20000, 30000 years old? I think - no I KNOW - I'm a true descendant of the Garden of Eden and Noah folks.

    PS. I'm very happy for myself too. I'm smooth and beautiful very proud West Asian fella. And also very rich. I'm blessed !

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    I dont see any use of clustering haplogroups this way , lets take one example : R1b is originaly from West Asia ( R1b* almoust exclusivly there ) , and come to West Europe 2-3.000 years ago , and G2a also West Asian , but come to West Europe significantly before that ( atleast early Neolithe - Treilles ) , and you calling lands with 90% R1b European , but lands with high G noneuropean . Also why would Balkans be more West Asiatic , when most (95% ) of its J2 , J1 , and E1b1b come to Europe lot before Spain R1b . (Also Balkans have pretty much European mth DNA ) . It is logicall that there is going to be a lot of overflow from West Asia to Balkans , and from Africa to Iberian penincula because they are separated just by few miles of water.

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    @ Alan

    ¿How can you say, again, that Mediterranean is not Southern European? My god.

    See the Spanish scores at other runs (K=10 and K=12 Sardinian and Basque components). Also, check the Eurogenes. It is impossible to deny a fact like this, even Maciamo claimed on this thread that Mediterranean was probably the most ancient European reported in populations.

    You don't know how to check the distances. The West Asian has much more non European affinities than the Mediterranean has, doesn't mean anything that it's closer to West European if it's also closer to other non European clusters. And tell me, ¿how do you explain, if Mediterranean is not Southern European, that West European is even closer to Palaeo African than the Mediterranean is? Also, notice that Mediterranean has very low Asian affinities compared to East and West European. ¿How do you explain that again if it's not Southern European? It's time to use the brain and stop with the nonsense.

    Here is the table, it's perfectly clear what I say: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Pw7x-HD7ON.../s1600/fst.png

    Sorry guys, but you have absolutly NO REASON. The numbers have spoken, not me. This discussion was over since a VERY long time.

    Most populations show more European admixture in the K=12 v3 run, including both Northern and Southern Europeans. Nothing rare on this, it is known that depending on the analysis results change. And actually, Polish, some Lithuanians, and some Mixed Slavs, are the ones who have increased more their European scores due to the East European component compared to other runs. So sorry, but as you can see, it's NOT due to the Mediterranean component. No way.

    Here you have a very ilustrative example: DOD468 (Lithuanian) at K=10 is less than 89% European, while at K=12 v3 goes near 100% with 67.8% East European (highest percentage for this admixture) and only 7.1% Mediterranean. With the distances and this fact, it's perfectly proven there's no correlation with the Mediterranean attribution to explain this peculiarity.

    Exactly, DOD468 scores 88.9% European at K=10 having only 7.1% Mediterranean at K=12 v3. And DOD725 with 54.4% Mediterranean in the last one (highest percentage for this admixture too), scored 89.7% European at K=10...clearly more. There's no doubt we are refering to Europe here, since the clusters are named Southern and Northern European, althought it's quite obvious what East Euro, West Euro, and Mediterranean mean.

    I can continue posting examples all day if you aren't still sure. Quite pathetic questioning some things wich are clear as day.
    Last edited by Knovas; 30-08-11 at 13:58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodin View Post
    I dont see any use of clustering haplogroups this way , lets take one example : R1b is originaly from West Asia ( R1b* almoust exclusivly there ) , and come to West Europe 2-3.000 years ago , and G2a also West Asian , but come to West Europe significantly before that ( atleast early Neolithe - Treilles ) , and you calling lands with 90% R1b European , but lands with high G noneuropean . Also why would Balkans be more West Asiatic , when most (95% ) of its J2 , J1 , and E1b1b come to Europe lot before Spain R1b . (Also Balkans have pretty much European mth DNA ) . It is logicall that there is going to be a lot of overflow from West Asia to Balkans , and from Africa to Iberian penincula because they are separated just by few miles of water.
    Perhaps you haven't read the research on this thread which shows that the Straights of Gibraltar acted as a strong barrier to gene flow from N. Africa. African genetic influences are quite low in Iberia, lower overall than an number of other countries.
    Last edited by Cambrius (The Red); 30-08-11 at 18:25.

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    Some people really don't get it. The Mediterranean is not only Europe. The Mediterranean is also Africa and Asia.

    The South Europeans don't have any kind of monopoly on the The Mediterranean Sea. The Mediterranean Sea is of all kind of people. From Europe (Spain, Italy and Greece) and Africa (Algeria, Lybia, Egypt) to Asia (Palestine, Israel, Lebanon and Syria).

    Of course is the Mediterranean more African. 50 % of the the Mediterranean IS in Africa! Some people are just delusional!

    The Mediterranean = AFRICA, Asia & Europe.



    the_mediterranean_basin.jpg

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    All (African, European and Asian) countries around the Mediterranean Sea have a very high Mediterranean component.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...COCa89AJ#gid=0

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    Man, I have already proven that the top Mediterranean scorer showed more total European than the top East European scorer at K=10 (Southern + Northern European). Why do you still continue saying that Mediterranean is not Southern European? It's 100% sure it is, and more ancient European than the other two. That's the main reason why you can find this component so widespread, because of its antiquity. North Africans Mixed with those peoples in ancient times, that's one of the reasons why they appear clearly different from Negroids (Sub-Saharan Africa).

    Here you have the Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...CP-9p_wC#gid=0

    Go and compare DOD468 and DOD725 (higher percentages on each admixture). I hope this time it's enough...incredible to be explaining such elemental thing at this level.

    And look at the distances please. Mediterranean has incredibly less non European affinities compared with almost all Asian clusters, and even West European is closer to Palaeo African than Mediterranean. Be resonable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    Man, I have already proven that the top Mediterranean scorer showed more total European than the top East European scorer at K=10 (Southern + Northern European). Why do you still continue saying that Mediterranean is not Southern European? It's 100% sure it is, and more ancient European than the other two.
    Of course is NORTH Mediterranean 100% European, it is IN Europe. I think there're HUGE differences between north and south Mediterraneans.

    Most north Mediterranean folks are mixed with Northwest European folks. People in Spain are much closer to people of England or France, because people of Spain have the same amount of Northwest DNA as peoples of England and France do. R1b connect these folks. French people are closer to Spaniards than they are to Russian, because French and Spanish people are from the same gene pool.

    While South Mediterraneans are mixed with native African populations from the rest of Africa! They're 100% African.

    They must distinguish the north Mediterraneans from the south Mediterraneans. Like they splitted Europe in West - East.

    It's all about the admixture.

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    Well, I must agree in part. Dienekes' should keep separated Southeast Europe from Southwest Europe to avoid confusions, like he did with Northern Europe (also, the Sardinian and Basque components run was more or less that thing). However, Iberians haven't the same Northern European as English, Irish, etc., but Southwestern European allele frequencies are clearly very similar to Northern Europe.

    You can notice that Italians, Greeks, etc., althought they have high Mediterranean, they also have quite West Asian and Southwest Asian, wich is what definetely deviate them to other non European populations (not the Mediterranean scores, but I agree that separated would be better).

    To separate North and South Mediterraneans is not possible. It's the same as if you try to separate the East or West European you can find in Europe from the one you can find in distant places of Asia (because some of these components are found even in Japan at very low frequencies). The only thing it represents the Mediterranean cluster in Africa is ancient Southern European admixture, nothing else. The same as the East or West European you can find in remote Asian places.

    Here you have the Nepalese. A very good example of this: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PaZ2LRO_9-...epalese_12.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodin View Post
    I dont see any use of clustering haplogroups this way , lets take one example : R1b is originaly from West Asia ( R1b* almoust exclusivly there ) , and come to West Europe 2-3.000 years ago , and G2a also West Asian , but come to West Europe significantly before that ( atleast early Neolithe - Treilles ) , and you calling lands with 90% R1b European , but lands with high G noneuropean . Also why would Balkans be more West Asiatic , when most (95% ) of its J2 , J1 , and E1b1b come to Europe lot before Spain R1b . (Also Balkans have pretty much European mth DNA ) . It is logicall that there is going to be a lot of overflow from West Asia to Balkans , and from Africa to Iberian penincula because they are separated just by few miles of water.

    Haplogroups?? Genetic clustering plots use autosomal DNA to measure similarities and differences between population groups, not haplogroups. Haplogroups have nothing to do with clustering. They primarily have value in the analysis of ancient migration patterns, not genetic distances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Of course is NORTH Mediterranean 100% European, it is IN Europe. I think there're HUGE differences between north and south Mediterraneans.

    Most north Mediterranean folks are mixed with Northwest European folks. People in Spain are much closer to people of England or France, because people of Spain have the same amount of Northwest DNA as peoples of England and France do. R1b connect these folks. French people are closer to Spaniards than they are to Russian, because French and Spanish people are from the same gene pool.

    While South Mediterraneans are mixed with native African populations from the rest of Africa! They're 100% African.

    They must distinguish the north Mediterraneans from the south Mediterraneans. Like they splitted Europe in West - East.

    It's all about the admixture.
    Finally, something we can agree on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    Well, I must agree in part. Dienekes' should keep separated Southeast Europe from Southwest Europe to avoid confusions, like he did with Northern Europe (also, the Sardinian and Basque components run was more or less that thing). However, Iberians haven't the same Northern European as English, Irish, etc., but Southwestern European allele frequencies are clearly very similar to Northern Europe.

    You can notice that Italians, Greeks, etc., althought they have high Mediterranean, they also have quite West Asian and Southwest Asian, wich is what definetely deviate them to other non European populations (not the Mediterranean scores, but I agree that separated would be better).
    Yes, not only in Northwest - Northeast Mediterranean but also in Southwest and Southeast. As you can see Arabic nations (Lebanon, Syria, Palestine) on the East coast of the Mediterranean Sea and Arabic nations on the South coast of the Mediterranean Sea have pretty much of the Mediterranean component in their DNA too. I'm pretty sure that their (Asian or African) Mediterranean component in them is more African than the West Asian component in Georgians.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...COCa89AJ#gid=0

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    So you can't say that the Mediterranean component is less African than the West Asian component. That's impossible and pure nonsense! It's all about the origin & admixture of haplogorups!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    So you can't say that the Mediterranean component is less African than the West Asian component. That's impossible and pure nonsense! It's all about the origin & admixture of haplogorups!
    No, not haplogroups, autosomal DNA.

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    Ask Dienekes' (he created the distances) and the researchers who made clustering studies. As you can imagine, we are not inventing, just telling what they show.

  25. #125
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundis View Post
    No, not haplogroups, autosomal DNA.
    ?

    autosomal DNA = 22 pairs of Y chromosomes and X chromosomes in Homo sapien DNA.
    Only 23rd pair can be XX, if you're a female. 23rd pair is a 'gender' pair.

    Y-DNA haplogroups are derived from Y gender chromosome
    MtDNA haplogorups are derived from X gender chromosome

    23rd gender pair chromosome has got the same ancestoral information as other 22 pairs of chromosomes do.

    If your 23rd gender Y chromosome says that you're R1b from your father, other 22 Y chromosomes would tell you the same thing.

    So autosomal DNA = an admixture of haplogorups!

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