New R1a map

[Dibran]

I'm talking about modern times not 3k years ago. Since then the European population has very much migrated and mixed with each other. I could go on and repeat all the historical events how this happened, but I think it won't be needed. Extremely small samples are theories and not actual facts.

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Is that so. And what actual "facts" do you have to make such a broad generalization as "R1a is Baltic" in a modern sense?

A sample is not a theory, a sample is aDNA. So far you can say Z280 is Balto-Slavic and Z92 is Baltic. Not sure how that's a theory. Plenty of Z280 littered throughout the Baltics in aDNA exactly where it is most prevelant today. The same is not true for other R1a branches. If your broad generalization of lineages being Baltic was even true, we should see Baltic specific clades with diversity predating the medieval in other R1a lines. This is simply not the case. M458 for example is lacking in Balts and they have little to no diversity in these lines going back no further than 400CE. It is mostly common in Slavs(more specifically West Slavs and Central Europeans).

Z284 ancient and modern is mostly associated with Scandinavians. Your statement holds no relevance unless you go far back to Corded Ware Culture that swept through the Baltic. Even less relevant when taking into account modern distribution of R1a clades.

Additionally, Z93 is Central Asian and oldest samples were found in Eastern Europe. There is also a wealth of R1a-M417 between Germany, Slovakia and the steppe.

[Mordred]

Is that so. And what actual "facts" do you have to make such a broad generalization as "R1a is Baltic"?

A sample is not a theory, a sample is aDNA. So far you can say Z280 is Balto-Slavic and Z92 is Baltic. Not sure how thats a theory. Plenty of Z280 littered throughout the Baltics. The same is not true for other R1a branches.

Cool, I'm not stubborn, show me the plenty of number of samples and I will check it out.

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[Dibran]

Cool, I'm not stubborn, show me the plenty of number of samples and I will check it out.

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I don't have to show you anything. The burden of proof is on you for making such a broad generalization/statement and treating it as a fact. Please show and explain how all R1a branches (in moderns no less) are originated, or spread from the Baltic?

You may have a case for Z280 and more specifically its subclade Z92. However, I want to see your explanation for M458/Z284/L664/Z93 and how its from/spread out of the Baltics. You will have a harder time making your case if you're only referring to modern samples and not"3000 years ago" as you said.

[Mordred]

I don't have to show you anything. The burden of proof is on you for making such a broad generalization/statement and treating it as a fact. Please show and explain how all R1a branches (in moderns no less) are originated, or spread from the Baltic?

You may have a case for Z280 and more specifically its subclade Z92. However, I want to see your explanation for M458/Z284/L664/Z93 and how its from/spread out of the Baltics. You will have a harder time making your case if you're only referring to modern samples and not"3000 years ago" as you said.

I was expecting such an answer. When it comes to what I wrote all the needed info is here on Eupedia so you don't have to be a Google anthropologist. I have more confidence to the academics and very well informed laymen on this forum than John Doe.

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[Dibran]

I was expecting such an answer. When it comes to what I wrote all the needed info is here on Eupedia so you don't have to be a Google anthropologist. I have more confidence to the academics and very well informed laymen on this forum than John Doe.

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Of course. As I expected you wouldn't explain your claims with any facts/evidence.

You reference Eupedia as having all the needed info to make your point, which doesn't even make such a claim that you proposed regarding R1a. If you just took 2 seconds to go to the R1a section page here on Eupedia(https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...1a_Y-DNA.shtml), you would see that no where is it stated all R1a in moderns(or even ancients) is the results of spread from the Baltics.

Additionally, this is a genetics forum, not some forum run by actual scientists and academic participants in studies. There is also a number of recent aDNA studies that have yet to be added to/updated on this sites Haplogroups and their respective pages.

I can tell by your very responses that you don't keep up with the topic. If you're going to act like a wise guy, at least know what you're talking about and back it up, " John Doe".

[Mordred]

Of course. As I expected you wouldn't explain your claims with any facts/evidence.

You reference Eupedia as having all the needed info to make your point, which doesn't even make such a claim that you proposed regarding R1a. If you just took 2 seconds to go to the R1a section page here on Eupedia(https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...1a_Y-DNA.shtml), you would see that no where is it stated all R1a in moderns(or even ancients) is the results of spread from the Baltics.

Additionally, this is a genetics forum, not some forum run by actual scientists and academic participants in studies. There is also a number of recent aDNA studies that have yet to be added to/updated on this sites Haplogroups and their respective pages.

I can tell by your very responses that you don't keep up with the topic. If you're going to act like a wise guy, at least know what you're talking about and back it up, " John Doe".

You don't have to copy cat my answers. Are you an adult? This forum is enough for factual knowledge. You have indeed no references at all. Not one. You just don't make any sense at all, it's called nonsense. I consider it a total waste of time. Anyway thanks for yet again learning nothing but to be observant with self proclaimed Google scientist. You're welcome.

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[Dibran]

You don't have to copy cat my answers. Are you an adult? This forum is enough for factual knowledge. You have indeed no references at all. Not one. You just don't make any sense at all, it's called nonsense. I consider it a total waste of time. Anyway thanks for yet again learning nothing but to be observant with self proclaimed Google scientist. You're welcome.

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Nice Strawman/Ad Hominem. You're obviously a troll. Reported.

[Mordred]

Nice Strawman/Ad Hominem. You're obviously a troll. Reported.

Lol. So your mom is moderator on this forum? Stop embarrassing yourself mate. This is my last answer comment in our conversation. Take care and stay safe at least.

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[Dibran]

Lol. So your mom is moderator on this forum? Stop embarrassing yourself mate. This is my last answer comment in our conversation. Take care and stay safe at least.

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Anyone with an atoms weight of understanding on R1a branches will know you're the one actually embarrassing yourself here. What's the matter "Bjornsson", did your R1a is all Baltic theory not hold water on Anthro that you're trying to spread your misinformation here?

You claim Eupedia has all the facts. I cited you their R1a article which doesn't even propose your hogwash claims(which I doubt your read btw). You have the audacity to call me a Google scientist. Clearly, its you who are wasting your time on google instead of actually reading some peer reviewed papers. For once, you should read the sources you claim you're quoting. Again, read the article and cite for us exactly where Eupedia claims all R1a branches including moderns spread from the Baltic. Comment sections aren't evidence or facts.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...1a_Y-DNA.shtml

[Mordred]

Anyone with an atoms weight of understanding on R1a branches will know you're the one actually embarrassing yourself here. What's the matter "Bjornsson", did your R1a is all Baltic theory not hold water on Anthro that you're trying to spread your misinformation here?

You claim Eupedia has all the facts. I cited you their R1a article which doesn't even propose your hogwash claims(which I doubt your read btw). You have the audacity to call me a Google scientist. Clearly, its you who are wasting your time on google instead of actually reading some peer reviewed papers. For once, you should read the sources you claim you're quoting. Again, read the article and cite for us exactly where Eupedia claims all R1a branches including moderns spread from the Baltic. Comment sections aren't evidence or facts.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...1a_Y-DNA.shtml

If you read my comment this is actually what I said mate. These migrations are more than 3500+ years ago. That's exactly what I wrote. Do you really expect that in 3500 years things stay the same, then you're delusional. What exactly does this map tell you I do wonder. These things are exactly why I wouldn't trust any Google Scientist. You're actually making a bigger embarrassment of yourself than I could imagine.

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[DuPidh]

If you read my comment this is actually what I said mate. These migrations are more than 3500+ years ago. That's exactly what I wrote. Do you really expect that in 3500 years things stay the same, then you're delusional. What exactly does this map tell you I do wonder. These things are exactly why I wouldn't trust any Google Scientist. You're actually making a bigger embarrassment of yourself than I could imagine.

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Sneaky Serb?

[Mordred]

Sneaky Serb?

Yeah, my I ask how you found out?

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[Dibran]

Sneaky Serb?

Figures hes a Serb. Makes perfect sense now.

[Dibran]

If you read my comment this is actually what I said mate. These migrations are more than 3500+ years ago. That's exactly what I wrote. Do you really expect that in 3500 years things stay the same, then you're delusional. What exactly does this map tell you I do wonder. These things are exactly why I wouldn't trust any Google Scientist. You're actually making a bigger embarrassment of yourself than I could imagine.

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Enough Red herrings/strawman you mentally inept fool.

Your original argument was claiming all R1a branches more recently are the result of spread from the Baltic. You're WRONG. You have supplied zero evidence to elucidate this point and continue to mock instead of provide anything if merit. You made the claim its on you to prove.

You said "I'm talking about modern times not 3k years ago."

Prove it or shut your mouth.

[DuPidh]

[QUOTE=Mordred;615364]Yeah, my I ask how you found out?

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I can smell a Serb miles away!

[Mordred]

LOL. I've been a member on this forum for 10 years. I've actually haven't seen so much Google Science in so few posts. I'm actually Micronesian. And finding that actually speaking to full stupidity with nonsense is making everyone laugh. Some are just mentally trained to automatically call others like Serb or similar which actually doubles down your own stupidity.

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[TaktikatEMalet]

[QUOTE=DuPidh;615371]

Yeah, my I ask how you found out?
Sent from my SM-T865 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE
I can smell a Serb miles away!

Nothing wrong with him being Serb, leave that nonsense out

It isn't Serbs who helped make Balkans poor, you know who did that

[DuPidh]

LOL. I've been a member on this forum for 10 years. I've actually haven't seen so much Google Science in so few posts. I'm actually Micronesian. And finding that actually speaking to full stupidity with nonsense is making everyone laugh. Some are just mentally trained to automatically call others like Serb or similar which actually doubles down your own stupidity.

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yes! Micronesians and Serbs lough when they see bananas!

[kingjohn]

this paper is a celebration for r1a found in mesolithic hunter again


Genetic ancestry changes in Stone to Bronze Age transition in the East European plain

Abstract
Transition from the Stone to the Bronze Age in Central and Western Europe was a period of majorpopulation movements originating from the Ponto-Caspian Steppe. Here, we report new genome-widesequence data from 28 individuals from the territory north of this source area – from the under-studiedWestern part of present-day Russia, including Stone Age hunter-gatherers (10,800–4,250 cal BC) andBronze Age farmers from the Corded Ware complex called Fatyanovo Culture (2,900–2,050 cal BC).We show that Eastern hunter-gatherer ancestry was present in Northwestern Russia already from around10,000 BC. Furthermore, we see a clear change in ancestry with the arrival of farming – the FatyanovoCulture individuals were genetically similar to other Corded Ware cultures, carrying a mixture of Steppeand European early farmer ancestry and thus likely originating from a fast migration towards thenortheast from somewhere in the vicinity of modern-day Ukraine, which is the closest area where theseancestries coexisted from around 3,000 BC.


source:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...07.02.184507v1



from page : 4 pdf
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...507v1.full.pdf

Affinities of Western Russian hunter-gatherersFirst, we assessed the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y chromosome (chrY) variation of the 3 StoneAge HG from Western Russia. The oldest individual PES001 belonged to mtDNA haplogroup (hg) U4(Table 1, Supplementary Data 2), which has been found before in EHG and Scandinavian HGindividuals. The other two represented mtDNA hgs T2 and K1 (Table 1, SupplementaryFig. 5, Supplementary Data 2), which is noteworthy since hg U was by far the most frequent in EuropeanHG before the spread of farming, but hgs H11 and T2 have also been found previously in HG individuals . The chrY lineages carried by PES001 and BER001 were R1a5-YP1272 and Q1-L54, respectively(Table 1, Supplementary Data 2) – both hgs have also been found previously in EHGindividuals


p.s
it is interesting that finally 1 mesolithic hunter belonged to mtdna t2 and not only to mtdna U

[Papajoe]

Hi Folks, I'm new, but there isn't a group for my y-haplogroup, but yours is a very close descendent branch. I'm an R- (R-M207), as in R-Z92

Can I hang out with you guys?

[Joey37]

R-Z92 is part of R1a, it is the East Baltic branch of Z280. On the R1a page on this site, the tree for Z280 shows the branch where Z92 is located, along with its cousin subclades, like the pan-Slavic CTS1211 or M558.

[Papajoe]

R-Z92 is part of R1a, it is the East Baltic branch of Z280. On the R1a page on this site, the tree for Z280 shows the branch where Z92 is located, along with its cousin subclades, like the pan-Slavic CTS1211 or M558.

Thanks!

First, I'm new here to learn.

I asked the folks at 23&me, and they said that the Z92 was part of both the R and R1a haplogroups.

R is R-M207, R1a is R-M420 so the answer confused me, but on further discussion, I was told it's not a linear relationship.

I think R->Z92 split off and spread as a group, then as it further spread, R1a-Z92 followed, so Z92v1.0 and Z92v1.1.

Does that make sense? Technically there's a slight difference, but this group seems like the best match, rather than trying to open a one-member R hapolgroup