New R1a map

I still personally believe and have researched that Croats have about 35% R1a. Although not a Slavic country per say, they are well within the genetic influence sphere of Slavs. If not 35% I would say at least about three out of every ten men is Slavic.
 
adamo said:
I still personally believe and have researched that Croats have about 35% R1a. Although not a Slavic country per say, they are well within the genetic influence sphere of Slavs. If not 35% I would say at least about three out of every ten men is Slavic.
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Are you arguing against the study or what?
Croats are still around 60% with Slavic Y-DNA (I2a1b + R1a) since they're Slavs after all.

And what does it mean not a Slavic country per say?
 
Croatia is not , for example, Poland with it's 50-60% r1a. It's not Russia with 50% or Ukraine with 40-50%, it's not "hardcore" Slavic territory, but there is Slavic genetic influence in Croatia, at a lower level. And I2a1b is not indicative of Slavs, it's barely found in Poland and they are "core" territory Slavs. It is balkanian, for example Bosnians and herzegovinans have 50-60% I2a1b but much lower total R1a levels, I2a1b does not mean Slavs. R1a does.
 
adamo said:
Croatia is not , for example, Poland with it's 50-60% r1a. It's not Russia with 50% or Ukraine with 40-50%, it's not "hardcore" Slavic territory, but there is Slavic genetic influence in Croatia, at a lower level. And I2a1b is not indicative of Slavs, it's barely found in Poland and they are "core" territory Slavs. It is balkanian, for example Bosnians and herzegovinans have 50-60% I2a1b but much lower total R1a levels, I2a1b does not mean Slavs. R1a does.
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Look, your information is out of date, so what you need to do is brush up on all the latest developments, both in the academic world and genetic genealogy circles, and then participate in the discussions here.
Ken Nordvedt said:
I2a2a-Dinaric is just too young to not have been the result of a sudden
expansion not much more than 2000 years ago.

Now to figure out from where the expansion began? The traditional Slavic
"homeland" of the Pripet marshes is as good a guess as anything for me at
the moment.
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http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I/2010-04/1270925314
 
Anyways I'm only 19 I'm still learning lol...:)..... I always assumed that that the Balkans haplogroup I was the first arrival of haplogroup I within Europe and that eventually some of the Balkans men would migrate to Norway/Sweden creating the I1a of the Vikings? Or is it the opposite?
 
adamo said:
Anyways I'm only 19 I'm still learning lol...:)..... I always assumed that that the Balkans haplogroup I was the first arrival of haplogroup I within Europe and that eventually some of the Balkans men would migrate to Norway/Sweden creating the I1a of the Vikings? Or is it the opposite?
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Ok no problem.
Actually there's a general consensus among circles that I2a1b(The main subclade in Balkans) expanded there with Slavic invasions so by all means it can be considered a slavic Haplogroup.
According to Nordvedt original homeland of I2a1b is somewhere around today Moldova, about the frequency part it's not important to determine the origin, much more important is diversity.

I1a is entirely different matter, search some threads on here and you'll learn a lot.
 
Wow really?? I2a1b originated in Moldova? I always thought it was from the heartland of Bosnia-Herzegovina.... What explains the crazy hot spot in Bosnia?
 
adamo said:
Wow really?? I2a1b originated in Moldova? I always thought it was from the heartland of Bosnia-Herzegovina.... What explains the crazy hot spot in Bosnia?
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Probably founder effect but remember that Bosnians are Slavic people too.
Actually I2a1b could even be considered more Slavic than R1a under certain circumstances, I2a1b is found where Slavs colonized bur R1a is found also in places where Slavs never settled.
 
But didn't haplogroup I come into Europe from Greece and Balkans and settle in Bosnia/Herzegovina some 20,000+ years ago? And then eventually go to Scandinavia and was linked with gravettian culture in Europe? Isn't this all a bit too old for recent Slavic migrations? Isn't it a separate group?
 
I mean wouldn't recent Slavic migrations be linked with R1a moving from parts of Ukraine/Russian steppes to places like Poland and Slovenia and not haplogroup I which was already present in Europe long before in the Balkans/Scandinavia areas, what does Balkans I have to do with slavics movements
 
adamo said:
Croatia is not , for example, Poland with it's 50-60% r1a. It's not Russia with 50% or Ukraine with 40-50%, it's not "hardcore" Slavic territory, but there is Slavic genetic influence in Croatia, at a lower level. And I2a1b is not indicative of Slavs, it's barely found in Poland and they are "core" territory Slavs. It is balkanian, for example Bosnians and herzegovinans have 50-60% I2a1b but much lower total R1a levels, I2a1b does not mean Slavs. R1a does.
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try to learn Croatian if you are not sure of their Slavic origin
 
Yes they DO (Croatians) have Slavic origins, as their language would also suggest and genetics also upholds (20-35%) R1a. But these more recent Slavic invaders, coming from the Russian steppes and the Ukraine are similar to the Slavs that pushed west into Europe reaching such places as Poland, Slovakia, parts of Czech Republic and affecting Slovenians etc. in my opinion they sort of "mixed in" with the local indigenous haplogroup I2a1b men of the Balkans. This is what it is to be Croatian, some of them hold the genetic legacy of the indigenous haplogroup I men (40 or so percent) and others arrived more recently with the Slavic migrations and brought their immigrant language with them but, clearly, these R1a men where not the overwhelming majority, they significantly impacted Croatia but they are not as much as in Poland Ukraine, Belarus or Russia. Can someone correct me if my theory is invalid or incorrect? : )
 
adamo said:
Yes they DO (Croatians) have Slavic origins, as their language would also suggest and genetics also upholds (20-35%) R1a. But these more recent Slavic invaders, coming from the Russian steppes and the Ukraine are similar to the Slavs that pushed west into Europe reaching such places as Poland, Slovakia, parts of Czech Republic and affecting Slovenians etc. in my opinion they sort of "mixed in" with the local indigenous haplogroup I2a1b men of the Balkans. This is what it is to be Croatian, some of them hold the genetic legacy of the indigenous haplogroup I men (40 or so percent) and others arrived more recently with the Slavic migrations and brought their immigrant language with them but, clearly, these R1a men where not the overwhelming majority, they significantly impacted Croatia but they are not as much as in Poland Ukraine, Belarus or Russia. Can someone correct me if my theory is invalid or incorrect? : )
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I agree with your statement Adamo. There is a trend to dislocate the Slavic people from the R1a orientation-- why this is I'm not sure. At some point the maps tell you all you need to know. I think political agendas begin to creep into this field and this clouds what was at one point was painfully obvious.

When in doubt, check the maps.
 
Thank you for the validation on my hypothesis, it is much appreciated! : )
 
adamo said:
This is what it is to be Croatian, some of them hold the genetic legacy of the indigenous haplogroup I men (40 or so percent) and others arrived more recently with the Slavic migrations and brought their immigrant language with them but, clearly, these R1a men where not the overwhelming majority, they significantly impacted Croatia but they are not as much as in Poland Ukraine, Belarus or Russia. Can someone correct me if my theory is invalid or incorrect? : )
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Both genetic stamps, R1a and I2a, came from the Eastern Europe, called in antiquity Scythia. I2a belonged to the Ostrogoths and they migrated South, therefore you won't find much of this stamp in Poland.
 
No haplogroup I2a originated in southeastern Europe some 15,000 to 17,000 years ago. It is not linked to the far more recent migrations of R1a people's towards Eastern Europe getting closer to the Balkans such as Czech R1a, Slovenians, Croats r1a etc. different movements that where not all perpetrated at the same time by a Slavic group
 
The original I2a movement certainly was not Slavic but there are younger, rarer sub-branches found at lower frequencies that may have moved around later with the influence of Slavs and incoming Slavic culture, but at the very core, I2a is not "Slavic" per say, it's indigenous balkanian
 
Why not? It's found in 25% of Romanians which is just under Ukraine....it's also found in Moldova...what would stop it from reaching Ukraine at a one out of five boys frequency?
 
adamo said:
Why not? It's found in 25% of Romanians which is just under Ukraine....it's also found in Moldova...what would stop it from reaching Ukraine at a one out of five boys frequency?
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Do not forget of Visigoths who carried the same I2a as Ostrogoths. I2a did not originate in Balkans but in Scythia. There is still more people with I2a in the former Scythia (Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Poland, Slovakia, Czechia) then in the whole Balkans. About 15 million men in the former Scythian lands compared to about 7.5 million men in the Balkan peninsula.
 
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