New J1 map

I've reposted my musings of J1 to this thread, just to be on a record when one day the dust settles and history of J1 migration will be more obvious.

I agree that J1 did most of its moves in Neolithic. When we look at this map below, it shows hot spots on Arabian Peninsula, they are also the diversity centers.

HG_J1_%28ADN-Y%29.PNG


Looking at the strongest locations, in sub Sahara and Arabian Peninsula, it makes me think that maybe their success came at the end of ice age and early Neolithic when these regions where greener and moist, excellent for pastoralists.
The diversity and frequency centers, might tell, us that J1 was most successful when connected to the sea. They could have shifted to sea faring peoples in mid Neolithic. First expended through Red Sea, then spread to Mediterranean.
The biggest density of J1 around Mediterranean match roughly Phoenician colonies. Greek colonies contain less J1. The matches or mismatches are not that precise though, therefor it might mean that main spread of J1 around Mediterranean happened before antiquity.

I don't think J1 was much agricultural, carrying first farming into Europe. Actually J1 drops sharply when approaching Fertile Crescent from Arabian Peninsula. Surely it is still strong, but it could have dispersed to the North later. J1 is not continuous, and missing in many fertile places in Europe. If we skip 0.5-1 percentile shade then it exists only by the Mediterranean Sea, except France. It is not a very good candidate for early farmers in my opinion.
Haplogroup-J1.gif

I don't have a clue what means the big spot in France, Tuscany and Bosnia. Maybe some later movements of J1 with Caucasian tribes, or brought by Gals from Anatolia?

Light shade in Central Europe from Germany to Belarus is a mark of huge Jewish community living there for 1000 years, numbered at around 8 million before WWII.

Summarising, J1 in Asia and Africa is early to mid Neolithic, carried by pastoralists during moist climate of that era.
J1 in Europe is mid to late Neolithic brought by sea faring people from Africa and Middle East to the other side of Mediterranean. Some spots in European inland could be attributed to Caucasian and Anatolian tribes, but I'm also leaning to Neolithic movement through Gibraltar of pastoralists or agriculturalists.
Some J1 in Europe is surely Jewish, with obvious and most likely their inclusive, signature in central Europe.
 
I've reposted my musings of J1 to this thread, just to be on a record when one day the dust settles and history of J1 migration will be more obvious.

I agree that J1 did most of its moves in Neolithic. When we look at this map below, it shows hot spots on Arabian Peninsula, they are also the diversity centers.

HG_J1_(ADN-Y).PNG


Looking at the strongest locations, in sub Sahara and Arabian Peninsula, it makes me think that maybe their success came at the end of ice age and early Neolithic when these regions where greener and moist, excellent for pastoralists.
The diversity and frequency centers, might tell, us that J1 was most successful when connected to the sea. They could have shifted to sea faring peoples in mid Neolithic. First expended through Red Sea, then spread to Mediterranean.
The biggest density of J1 around Mediterranean match roughly Phoenician colonies. Greek colonies contain less J1. The matches or mismatches are not that precise though, therefor it might mean that main spread of J1 around Mediterranean happened before antiquity.

I don't think J1 was much agricultural, carrying first farming into Europe. Actually J1 drops sharply when approaching Fertile Crescent from Arabian Peninsula. Surely it is still strong, but it could have dispersed to the North later. J1 is not continuous, and missing in many fertile places in Europe. If we skip 0.5-1 percentile shade then it exists only by the Mediterranean Sea, except France. It is not a very good candidate for early farmers in my opinion.
Haplogroup-J1.gif

I don't have a clue what means the big spot in France, Tuscany and Bosnia. Maybe some later movements of J1 with Caucasian tribes, or brought by Gals from Anatolia?

Light shade in Central Europe from Germany to Belarus is a mark of huge Jewish community living there for 1000 years, numbered at around 8 million before WWII.

Summarising, J1 in Asia and Africa is early to mid Neolithic, carried by pastoralists during moist climate of that era.
J1 in Europe is mid to late Neolithic brought by sea faring people from Africa and Middle East to the other side of Mediterranean. Some spots in European inland could be attributed to Caucasian and Anatolian tribes, but I'm also leaning to Neolithic movement through Gibraltar of pastoralists or agriculturalists.
Some J1 in Europe is surely Jewish, with obvious and most likely their inclusive, signature in central Europe.

Lebrok?
how certain we are that J1 is from South Spots (Arabian penunsula- Africa) or from North Spot, south east Caucas?

I ask cause from what I read, and is also my personal believe J1 is Caucasian Hg.
which moved south and the return North as a clear Semitic with the today meaning,

could J1 be origin from Caucas area and moved south? or the opposite?
 
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i saw an interesting show on archeology - time team - series called , from constantinople to cornwall.

they found undisturbed phoenician pottery underground in cornwall England dated 500BC. so either that phoenicians traded there directly or trade was done via a relay system. Pheonicians or carthagians means basically the same people, so it could be cartagian.
 
i saw an interesting show on archeology - time team - series called , from constantinople to cornwall.

they found undisturbed phoenician pottery underground in cornwall England dated 500BC. so either that phoenicians traded there directly or trade was done via a relay system. Pheonicians or carthagians means basically the same people, so it could be cartagian.

Cornwall had a lot of wealth in metals at that time, and it was an easy place to access by sea. I suspect that the locals could have easily afforded to trade with the also wealthy Phoenicians, or at least received their goods via relay, as you say.

That said, I don't notice any sort of direct genetic impact of the Phoenicians on Cornwall.
 
I think Tyre also came to Britain to trade for "blue" dyes. There is a theory that the biblical book of Ezekiel talks of Tyre and her greatness and the blue and purple dyes she used, obtained from "Elishas" which some think may be an early reference to Britain.
 
Lebrok?
how certain we are that J1 is from South Spots (Arabian penunsula- Africa) or from North Spot, south east Caucas?

I ask cause from what I read, and is also my personal believe J1 is Caucasian Hg.
which moved south and the return North as a clear Semitic with the today meaning,

could J1 be origin from Caucas area and moved south? or the opposite?


Good questions - I red long time ago that central & south arabian populations of today was thought to be got down there from North (in Pittard - les Races et l'Histoire) - if we keep Jews apart, some surprising presence of Y-J1 in parts of Europe out of reach of seafarers could be due to 'northern' J1... (I'm not speaking here about the FAR origin of all these HGs -
 
Lebrok?
how certain we are that J1 is from South Spots (Arabian penunsula- Africa) or from North Spot, south east Caucas?

I ask cause from what I read, and is also my personal believe J1 is Caucasian Hg.
which moved south and the return North as a clear Semitic with the today meaning,

could J1 be origin from Caucas area and moved south? or the opposite?

I'm not sure about that at all, if J1 originated in Caucas it would had to go to Arabian Peninsula 15-10k years ago. I read somewhere that the highest diversity of J1 is in Arabian Peninsula, so I went with this as their starting point.
 
I'm not sure about that at all, if J1 originated in Caucas it would had to go to Arabian Peninsula 15-10k years ago. I read somewhere that the highest diversity of J1 is in Arabian Peninsula, so I went with this as their starting point.

I 'll try to find something serious about J1 within diversity - but the presence of Y-J1 in coutnries very far from Mediterranea and Arabia, in far North and North-East of Europe is questioning - I think they came not all of them from the only semitic regions and that their places of departure was northern enough (S-Caucasus or near), even if mixed with Y-J2 and others; concerning the hotspots of today in S-Arabia/Yemen some last century historians thought a part of the Arabs were came from North (near Eastern) into the Arabia peninsula...
for some places we can think in Phenicians but not everywhere! we need more surveys in a lot of countries with recent enough downstream SNPs to know more -
 
Thanks for the map, very interesting
I noticed you had just posted a thread on J Mtdna. This paticular thread is about Y-DNA. So the map dosent show the distribution of your Mtdna. Just clarifying, in case you thought that this map was showing Mtdna J1, sorry in advance if you were looking for J1 Y-DNA, and I am sounding stupid for having corrected you when there was no need to.
 
distributions of J1 in Europe are not due to Jewish people who are rather dispersed on large areas, but case of historic migrations of larger ethnic groups ....

in Spain, Sicily and Sardinia it is about Arabic people entering from north Africa...

in France it is brought by Franks (also known as Fruzi/Frugians in Serbo-Croat, e.g. see origin of name mountain Fruska gora )
who brought it from Asia minor as Francs in my opinion origin from Phrygians...note that legend of origin of Francs relates them to Troy..

in fact, hotspot in Belgium also strongly suggests Frankish origin as it is nearby original frankish settlement area...

200AD



in northwest Italy it is brought by Etruscans...in fact, we can even see place from which they departured as a hole in J1 spread in Lydia


in Baltic and northeast Italy it is about Veneti who moved out from Paphlagonia, which is also supported by hole in spread in Paphlagonia ...

in Serbs it is probably due to world empire of I2a Serians stretching from Europe deep into Asia all the way to China and south as far as into Arabian peninsula...
France looks heavy on J1. What is the origin of it?
 
Albania was under Turkish conquest for 500 yrs. It is widely believed that Turks left their genetic legacy in Albania. Could it be that J1+J2a+(some J2b) is the Turkish contribution. Arbereshe, a people of Albanian extraction, living in Italy, originaly from South Albania, show only 3% presence of J2b compared with 20% of Albanians. What is the experts opinion?
 
Albania was under Turkish conquest for 500 yrs. It is widely believed that Turks left their genetic legacy in Albania. Could it be that J1+J2a+(some J2b) is the Turkish contribution. Arbereshe, a people of Albanian extraction, living in Italy, originaly from South Albania, show only 3% presence of J2b compared with 20% of Albanians. What is the experts opinion?

J2a has nothing to do with Turk population,

it is high in Crete, in lands that Ottomans never step.
 
J2a is the Anatolian J clade, J2b2 is not , and that's according to Dienekes Pontikos.

J1 is probably some Jewish/Arab legacy.
 
Albania was under Turkish conquest for 500 yrs. It is widely believed that Turks left their genetic legacy in Albania. Could it be that J1+J2a+(some J2b) is the Turkish contribution. Arbereshe, a people of Albanian extraction, living in Italy, originaly from South Albania, show only 3% presence of J2b compared with 20% of Albanians. What is the experts opinion?
Not in north Albania, do to the Laws of Lek Dukagjini which the turks considered it barbaric had the most atonomy and were the most resistance against the turks, and the north is most mountains. So I dont think it came from turks.
 
Not in north Albania, do to the Laws of Lek Dukagjini which the turks considered it barbaric had the most atonomy and were the most resistance against the turks, and the north is most mountains. So I dont think it came from turks.
They had Garrisons in Shkoder, North Albania. They had many garrisons in the South. Their genetic contribution is significant. Since we have many common Genes we them, many are hard to detect. But I am suspicious of high G haplogroup in south, J+J1+J2a. It seams that J2b is native there.
 
What d you mean, J2a has nothing to do with Turks? It's the predominant middle eastern J2 Clade, and it is found in Cretans, ad Turks as well.
 
What d you mean, J2a has nothing to do with Turks? It's the predominant middle eastern J2 Clade, and it is found in Cretans, ad Turks as well.

I mean Turkey is 25% J2a+J and 10% J1 and 12% G. In Arbereshe population they were all missing. Arbereshe were Albanians that escaped Turks.
 
The fact that Greeks are J2a majority does not change the equation. Greeks and Turks have lived side by side for 10 000 years in Anatolia. The exchange of genes is normal. Albanians have always bee two countries away from them.
 
The Greeks have the highest J2b frequencies, J2b characterizes Greco-Albanians so when speaking of Greeks and J2, remember them as well. J2b is very scarce in the Middle East even turkey, very rare.
 

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