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Thread: New J1 map

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    I would say that the phenotype of 20% of Albanians is the same like Anatolians. They are dark by any standard. They could be christians, muslims or aromanians. Aromanians display a wide range of skin colour. From real pale nordic type to real dark dravidian type. My guess is that Turks could largely be responsable for that. Dark skin could be J1 FOR INSTANCE.
    Autosomally, an Albanian is just as close to a Turk as to a French person, so it is not that close considering that Turkey is much closer in kilometers. There seems to be a genetical barrier at the border between Greece and Turkey.
    So to answer your question, I don't believe Turks have left much genes in Albania. The olive skin phenotype has been in Southern-Europe since forever. I know this is going to dissapoint a lot of Albanian idiots who want to claim Turkish ancestry, but sorry, truth is they're not much Turkish.

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    Other than within the J2a of Albanians there is middle eastern blood....

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    Some of them came at the time you mentioning. Others have always been there. The one that came at that time I guess were haplogroups N,Q,L,H,G of eastern asia. But J, J1,J2 you can't say were not there from the begining of time. Why you get nervous when I say you have exchanged genes with Turks. I am convinced Albanians carry a lot of them, I just need some help to estimate how much. Greeks share must be triple of that Albanians share for the reason that Greeks shared the same space with them, and there were Turkish colonies all over greece before the revolution. But I am not interested in how much of the genes Greeks and Turks share, I am interested in an educated approximation of how much Albanians share.
    again you are dump.

    you are confusing Turks with pre-Turkish populations,

    native in minor Asia does not mean Turk.

    don't mix modern ethnicities with ancient ones,

    and for your info, Crete is a place that Ottomans have 0% but heavily J2a,

    search better

    The Altaic component is very heavy in Albania, at top positions
    that means they share enough Turkic, don't mess Turkic with Turkish,

    Turkey especially West and North Parts, have small original turkish genes,
    Read some Byzantine History.


    on the other hand
    @ Kamani

    what do you know about the migration of Bektas people in Albania?
    all Bektas followers moved to Albania when exciled from Ottomans.
    meaning that there was a quite modern devastation from minor Asia to ALbania.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    @ Kamani

    what do you know about the migration of Bektas people in Albania?
    all Bektas followers moved to Albania when exciled from Ottomans.
    meaning that there was a quite modern devastation from minor Asia to ALbania.
    dude, you're not going to throw some names in there as usual and pretend you have an argument. Greece is right next door to Turkey, today autosomally you're closer to them than Albanians are, get over it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    What d you mean, J2a has nothing to do with Turks? It's the predominant middle eastern J2 Clade, and it is found in Cretans, ad Turks as well.
    Ethnic Turks are not J2a.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    .


    I don't have a clue what means the big spot in France, Tuscany and Bosnia. Maybe some later movements of J1 with Caucasian tribes, or brought by Gals from Anatolia?
    I'm asking myself the same. There are also big spot in Spain and Portugal.

    Maciamo, are there new study about J1 in Europe? In France, Italy, Spain?

    This map on which studies is based on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by binx View Post
    Ethnic Turks are not J2a.
    J2a is Greco-Anatolian, if by ethnic Turks you mean the central asian ones then i agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldritch View Post
    J2a is Greco-Anatolian, if by ethnic Turks you mean the central asian ones then i agree.
    Yes, It's what I meant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    Autosomally, an Albanian is just as close to a Turk as to a French person, so it is not that close considering that Turkey is much closer in kilometers. There seems to be a genetical barrier at the border between Greece and Turkey.
    So to answer your question, I don't believe Turks have left much genes in Albania. The olive skin phenotype has been in Southern-Europe since forever. I know this is going to dissapoint a lot of Albanian idiots who want to claim Turkish ancestry, but sorry, truth is they're not much Turkish.
    Its not about claiming Turkish ancestry. I wish we did not have that ancestry. But unfortunately we do have it. Every occupation does not go peacefully. You have stories women jumping from the cliff not to fall on the occupiers hands. What about the woman that did not jump? The presence of J1, G2a, T, J2a in Albania is a gift from the conquest. Our original population did not have it. If they had it, it shold have been in Arberehe too. They probably left R1b too but thats hard to detect. I am not talking about olive skin. I am talking about dark skin among Albanians. My estimate is it could be 20%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    again you are dump.

    you are confusing Turks with pre-Turkish populations,

    native in minor Asia does not mean Turk.

    don't mix modern ethnicities with ancient ones,

    and for your info, Crete is a place that Ottomans have 0% but heavily J2a,

    search better

    The Altaic component is very heavy in Albania, at top positions
    that means they share enough Turkic, don't mess Turkic with Turkish,

    Turkey especially West and North Parts, have small original turkish genes,
    Read some Byzantine History.


    on the other hand
    @ Kamani

    what do you know about the migration of Bektas people in Albania?
    all Bektas followers moved to Albania when exciled from Ottomans.
    meaning that there was a quite modern devastation from minor Asia to ALbania.
    With Turks I mean the residents of present day Turkey. The one you are mentioning are OTOMANS. They were of Mongolic stock. The last centuary Turkey is a mixed population. Up to 1922 Turks and Greeks lived side by side in the same space, namely Anatolia. There were 600 000 Turks settled in Grece ( out of 3 milion Greek population). Athens had a large chunk of Turks, Peloponesis did, Salonica and more. After 1922 they were all expelled to Turkey. There were 2 milion Greeks in Anatolia. They were expelled to Greece. So you are trying to make me believe that even they lived together in the same towns for milleniums they did not mix. I don't by it. If you want to believe it yourself, that's fine, but you are kidding yourself. As for Bectas, they are a muslim sect, a hybrid between islam and chritianity. I am one of them, and I am not forbidden to drink by Bektash religion, I don't have to pray 5 times a day, I can even marry a christian if the girl is beautifull.

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    With Turks I mean the residents of present day Turkey. The one you are mentioning are OTOMANS. They were of Mongolic stock. The last centuary Turkey is a mixed population. Up to 1922 Turks and Greeks lived side by side in the same space, namely Anatolia. There were 600 000 Turks settled in Grece ( out of 3 milion Greek population). Athens had a large chunk of Turks, Peloponesis did, Salonica and more. After 1922 they were all expelled to Turkey. There were 2 milion Greeks in Anatolia. They were expelled to Greece. So you are trying to make me believe that even they lived together in the same towns for milleniums they did not mix. I don't by it. If you want to believe it yourself, that's fine, but you are kidding yourself. As for Bectas, they are a muslim sect, a hybrid between islam and chritianity. I am one of them, and I am not forbidden to drink by Bektash religion, I don't have to pray 5 times a day, I can even marry a christian if the girl is beautifull.
    when J1 etc moved from middle-east/anatolia to balkans, italy,etc there was no Turkic people in turkey. The turks only arrived around 1500 years ago in modern turkey. Do you know what you are talking about?
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    Its not about claiming Turkish ancestry. I wish we did not have that ancestry. But unfortunately we do have it. Every occupation does not go peacefully. You have stories women jumping from the cliff not to fall on the occupiers hands. What about the woman that did not jump? The presence of J1, G2a, T, J2a in Albania is a gift from the conquest. Our original population did not have it. If they had it, it shold have been in Arberehe too. They probably left R1b too but thats hard to detect. I am not talking about olive skin. I am talking about dark skin among Albanians. My estimate is it could be 20%.

    LOL

    these markers where in the balkans before greeks, romans, thracians and illyrians even existed. Stop using today's borders for genetic movement

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    Quote Originally Posted by binx View Post
    I'm asking myself the same. There are also big spot in Spain and Portugal.

    Maciamo, are there new study about J1 in Europe? In France, Italy, Spain?

    This map on which studies is based on?
    re: france.....Is it some type of trading ventures of centuries up the Rhone river via the 'greek" city of Marseille or maybe Phoenician.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    LOL

    these markers where in the balkans before greeks, romans, thracians and illyrians even existed. Stop using today's borders for genetic movement
    Genes are no like wind that cam move freely where they want. Genes are people. 80% of Arabs are J1. So J1 or Arab can be used inerchangebly. Had J1 been there, Arbereshe too would have had some. They don't. All Arbereshe did was, they moved to Italy when Turks came. So it means J1 was brought to Albania by Turks. Turks cluster 10 J1. The borders are not some fiction lines. They were created on something.

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    Albanopolis probably J1 is Arab in majority but i disagree about the other Y-DNA lines which are mostly old in the area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldritch View Post
    Albanopolis probably J1 is Arab in majority but i disagree about the other Y-DNA lines which are mostly old in the area.
    I suspect that particularly J1 was brought to the area from Turkey. Turks cluster 10% J1. Also G in the area was brought by Turks. Turks have 10% G too. I draw the conclusions comparing Arbereshe with south Albanians where they originate. Both Albanians and Arbereshe have the same amount of E,I, R1a. We differ in J and G.

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    With Turks I mean the residents of present day Turkey. The one you are mentioning are OTOMANS. They were of Mongolic stock. The last centuary Turkey is a mixed population. Up to 1922 Turks and Greeks lived side by side in the same space, namely Anatolia. There were 600 000 Turks settled in Grece ( out of 3 milion Greek population). Athens had a large chunk of Turks, Peloponesis did, Salonica and more. After 1922 they were all expelled to Turkey. There were 2 milion Greeks in Anatolia. They were expelled to Greece. So you are trying to make me believe that even they lived together in the same towns for milleniums they did not mix. I don't by it. If you want to believe it yourself, that's fine, but you are kidding yourself. As for Bectas, they are a muslim sect, a hybrid between islam and chritianity. I am one of them, and I am not forbidden to drink by Bektash religion, I don't have to pray 5 times a day, I can even marry a christian if the girl is beautifull.

    the numbers you are posting are incorrect,

    Bektash people livned in today Turkey and moved to Albania, since you are one of them, you know when and how and why.
    Bektash are mostly Turko-Iranian population,
    only in Pontus the Ottoman empire counted 6 million Greeks. from kastamone to Lazoi (Castamonu Laz)

    Bektash is an Islamic heresy. so don't tell us about Atheism in Albania.

    J1 is also strong evidence oof hebrew population,

    about G in Balkans
    I am G2a3* L90.

    G2 is pure palaiolithic in Balkans, its History is written in Sesklo/Dimini.
    in Makedonia and Thessaly reach >10% and in Epiros 8% with spoted areas reach >14%
    it is older than any other HG in Balkans and we find in mountains,
    it is high in mountainous populations all over Europe
    due to that some connect it with mining,

    The absence of G in some Albanian populations is cause their nativity is small with area.


    G2a is the oldest native HG in Balkans, and probably one of the 1rst (if not the first) that enter Europe

    ETRUSCANS TOMP REVEALE G2a

    VINCA CULTURE HAD G2a FOR CERTAIN

    G2a is diviided in 2 major packs,
    1. the Alpen one ,
    2. The Greco-Anatolian one

    Alans and Hazzars and Eskenazy Jews also share G but not of the above packs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    the numbers you are posting are incorrect,

    Bektash people livned in today Turkey and moved to Albania, since you are one of them, you know when and how and why.
    Bektash are mostly Turko-Iranian population,
    only in Pontus the Ottoman empire counted 6 million Greeks. from kastamone to Lazoi (Castamonu Laz)

    Bektash is an Islamic heresy. so don't tell us about Atheism in Albania.

    J1 is also strong evidence oof hebrew population,

    about G in Balkans
    I am G2a3* L90.

    G2 is pure palaiolithic in Balkans, its History is written in Sesklo/Dimini.
    in Makedonia and Thessaly reach >10% and in Epiros 8%
    it is older than any other HG in Balkans and we find in mountains,
    it is high in mountainous populations all over Europe
    due to that some connect it with mining,

    The absence of G in Albanian populations is cause their nativity is small with area.


    G2a is the oldest native HG in Balkans, and probably one of the 1rst (if not the first) that enter Europe

    ETRUSCANS TOMP REVEALE G2a

    VINCA CULTURE HAD G2a FOR CERTAIN

    G2a is diviided in 2 major packs,
    1. the Alpen one ,
    2. The Greco-Anatolian one

    Alans and Hazzars and Eskenazy Jews also share G but not of the above packs.
    Bektash is not a people. Its a muslim religios sect. The way orthodoxy is not a people, its a religion. Bektash were trying to pacify the christians converting to muslim religion. Christians were not comfortable with some muslim restrictions like forbiding alcohool. So Bectashi sect allowed it. They wanted to marry woman from other religions so Bectashi allowed it, and many more.... If you believe that Bectashi is a kind of people then you are misinformed or confused. You are right about Etruscans being G2a, It turns out Etruscans came To Etruria from the place we call Turkey. So you are reinforcing my view that indeed Haplogroup G in Albania is a Turkish affair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    Bektash is not a people. Its a muslim religios sect. The way orthodoxy is not a people, its a religion. Bektash were trying to pacify the christians converting to muslim religion. Christians were not comfortable with some muslim restrictions like forbiding alcohool. So Bectashi sect allowed it. They wanted to marry woman from other religions so Bectashi allowed it, and many more.... If you believe that Bectashi is a kind of people then you are misinformed or confused. You are right about Etruscans being G2a, It turns out Etruscans came To Etruria from the place we call Turkey. So you are reinforcing my view that indeed Haplogroup G in Albania is a Turkish affair.
    about G Hg
    naming it Turkish you are naming as after 1071 Ad Hg which is wrong.


    G2a in Aegean Albania Balkans and minor Asia is the Greco-Anatolian part
    G2a in Swiss Austria is the Alpen part.

    IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TURKISH POPULATION.

    about Bektas

    is Turkish vocabulary after Bek +Tas = strong rock
    Bektas is a toponyme an area in Pontus Black Mountains Μελαν Ορος near Κερασους Turkish Giresun.

    Haji Bektas Weli was a Persian (or Turkish to some) that created an Islamic Heresy at 1200 AD that Turks accepted especially in the Cappadokia and Pontus mountains. (desili area)

    he and Haji Ahmad Yasavi are the founder of Alevi and Bektasi-Sufi heresy in Ottomans,

    in 1826 Bektashi people (babas dervish dede) were under hunt after Mahmud 2nd, and they found refugee in Albania and Kossovo.
    remember the excile of Bektashi people from Goztepe Con/polis to Kossovo.

    unknown population moved from Thrace Bithynia Pontus Cappadokia Kastamone to Albania and Kossovo to be safe from the Suni hunt. at least 7 tekke-Villages left only from around Con/polis.

    later at 1925 Kemal Attaturk Forbit all Bektas religion activities and a second wave left and Move to Tirana, (search why Ιismael Vlore almost broke with Kemal that time)
    the second wave was mostly from Bithynia (Anadolu),
    remember HaciBektas town in Anadolu modern Turkey.

    so don't tell about no Turk ever step in Albania.
    the headquarters of all over world Bektashi people is Tirana, though the Heresy started in Iran/Persia.

    besides
    ALL YENISARIES WERE BEKTASHI SUFI IN RELIGION,
    so Mahmud 2nd was afraid of them.
    as also Kemal.
    Bektashi religion in Balkans at Suleiman's the magnificent times was a Mark of Manisa (Μαγνησια) trained Yenisaries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    about G Hg
    naming Turkish you are naming as after 1146 Ad Hg

    G2a in Aegean Albania Balkans and minor Asia is the Greco-Anatolian part
    G2a in Swiss Austria is the Alpen part.

    IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TURKISH POPULATION.
    we try to tell him, but he does not realise that modern people in some modern countries arrived not that long ago.

    It would be better if we had some sort of genetic maps for these people. a map fro bronze-age, another for iron-age, another for end of roman empire aetc

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    Some serious misinformation going on here!

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    @ Zanipolo.
    i see new avatar.

    he is trying to search and combine HGs but he is lost using modern names of nationalities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    @ Zanipolo.
    i see new avatar.

    he is trying to search and combine HGs but he is lost using modern names of nationalities.
    yes, needed a change of avatar .......still searching............i might put my COA .......hehehehe

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    about G Hg
    naming it Turkish you are naming as after 1071 Ad Hg which is wrong.


    G2a in Aegean Albania Balkans and minor Asia is the Greco-Anatolian part
    G2a in Swiss Austria is the Alpen part.

    IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TURKISH POPULATION.

    about Bektas

    is Turkish vocabulary after Bek +Tas = strong rock
    Bektas is a toponyme an area in Pontus Black Mountains Μελαν Ορος near Κερασους Turkish Giresun.

    Haji Bektas Weli was a Persian (or Turkish to some) that created an Islamic Heresy at 1200 AD that Turks accepted especially in the Cappadokia and Pontus mountains. (desili area)

    he and Haji Ahmad Yasavi are the founder of Alevi and Bektasi-Sufi heresy in Ottomans,

    in 1826 Bektashi people (babas dervish dede) were under hunt after Mahmud 2nd, and they found refugee in Albania and Kossovo.
    remember the excile of Bektashi people from Goztepe Con/polis to Kossovo.

    unknown population moved from Thrace Bithynia Pontus Cappadokia Kastamone to Albania and Kossovo to be safe from the Suni hunt. at least 7 tekke-Villages left only from around Con/polis.

    later at 1925 Kemal Attaturk Forbit all Bektas religion activities and a second wave left and Move to Tirana, (search why Ιismael Vlore almost broke with Kemal that time)
    the second wave was mostly from Bithynia (Anadolu),
    remember HaciBektas town in Anadolu modern Turkey.

    so don't tell about no Turk ever step in Albania.
    the headquarters of all over world Bektashi people is Tirana, though the Heresy started in Iran/Persia.

    besides
    ALL YENISARIES WERE BEKTASHI SUFI IN RELIGION,
    so Mahmud 2nd was afraid of them.
    as also Kemal.
    Bektashi religion in Balkans at Suleiman's the magnificent times was a Mark of Manisa (Μαγνησια) trained Yenisaries.
    So, since I am a Bektashis I am a Turk, too? Thanks for telling me, I did not know that!!!
    Just courious, are you making stuff up, or what you saying is written in the books you read?

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    we try to tell him, but he does not realise that modern people in some modern countries arrived not that long ago.

    It would be better if we had some sort of genetic maps for these people. a map fro bronze-age, another for iron-age, another for end of roman empire aetc
    You don't need to tell me anything. Large part of Turkish population have always been there, Only Mongolic part of them came latter. It was not like, Anatoloa was empty and one mornig surprize,surprize, Turks came. Thats your view, not the reality. Large parts of todays Turks are in fact muslim Greeks. Since you admit that haplo J2a is Greek, about 30% of todays Turks are J2a, which translated in ethnicity means muslim Greeks. Haplogroups R1a, E, I are Ballkanic people who settled in Turkey. Thats why Turkish Dna and Greek are very close. If you are courious check the DNA of Cypriots, Greek and Turkish part of Cypro and you see what is happening there.

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