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Thread: Updated Y-DNA frequencies for Spanish regions

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Arrow Updated Y-DNA frequencies for Spanish regions

    I have added Y-DNA frequencies for almost all autonomous regions of Spain and reworked the haplogroup maps accordingly. I used the data from Flores et al. Adams et al. Maca-Meyer et al. as well as Iberianroots.
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    Regular Member Knovas's Avatar
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    Catalans are the most similar to Basques on Y-DNA frequencies, interesting. I wonder what Navarrans would look, they sould show more or less the same frequencies. The surprise is that I expected more R1b in Aragón.

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    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I have added Y-DNA frequencies for almost all autonomous regions of Spain and reworked the haplogroup maps accordingly. I used the data from Flores et al. Adams et al. Maca-Meyer et al. as well as Iberianroots.
    Why don't you use the study of Belaresque et al. for the R1b ? They have 72% of R1b for East Andalusia, 70% for Castille-la-Mancha, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    Catalans are the most similar to Basques on Y-DNA frequencies, interesting. I wonder what Navarrans would look, they sould show more or less the same frequencies. The surprise is that I expected more R1b in Aragón.
    Navarrans are pretty much like Basques according to the data on Iberianroots.

    Aragon has less R1b because it is a hotspot for haplogroup I, mostly I2a1.

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    Why don't you use the study of Belaresque et al. for the R1b ? They have 72% of R1b for East Andalusia, 70% for Castille-la-Mancha, etc.
    Because data has to be consistent. Balaresque doesn't mention other haplogroups. Besides, I make the total for all the studies by counting samples for each haplogroup (not by averaging percentages, as some studies have much bigger sample sizes than others). My total samples for Andalusia and Castille-la-Mancha are 3 to 4 times larger than the Balaresque et al. study.

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    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Because data has to be consistent. Balaresque doesn't mention other haplogroups. Besides, I make the total for all the studies by counting samples for each haplogroup (not by averaging percentages, as some studies have much bigger sample sizes than others). My total samples for Andalusia and Castille-la-Mancha are 3 to 4 times larger than the Balaresque et al. study.
    Anyways, the R1b map needs an update on Iberia. For example Catalonia has 80% while in the map shows 60-70%.

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    Regular Member zanipolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    Anyways, the R1b map needs an update on Iberia. For example Catalonia has 80% while in the map shows 60-70%.
    catalonia is 82.5% on Maciano sheet, should it be lower?

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    Regular Member Knovas's Avatar
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    Must be I2a1 the hot-spot, of course, since it's quite typical among the Pyrenees. However, I did not expect less than 70% of R1b in Aragón.

    Correct, the map needs an update. The problem is the map, not the spreadsheet.

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    Anyways, the R1b map needs an update on Iberia. For example Catalonia has 80% while in the map shows 60-70%.
    The map shows 80% for Catalonia. You might need to refresh the page with the map or clear your browser's history if the new maps don't show up.

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    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
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    The table of haplogroups show 10% of I2a for Andalusia yet in the map it shows 1-5% ??

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    The table of haplogroups show 10% of I2a for Andalusia yet in the map it shows 1-5% ??
    I doubled checked, and the reason is that the Y-DNA tables have data for I2* and I2a together in the same column. But most of the I2 in Andalusia is actually I2*. I2* is probably of Anatolian or Caucasian origin. Another place where it is found is Crete. I suppose it came with the Neolithic farmers.

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    Great Adventurer sparkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I doubled checked, and the reason is that the Y-DNA tables have data for I2* and I2a together in the same column. But most of the I2 in Andalusia is actually I2*. I2* is probably of Anatolian or Caucasian origin. Another place where it is found is Crete. I suppose it came with the Neolithic farmers.
    I2* (now I2c by the way) came with Neolithic farmers? How? It has 3 clusters, 2 with centers of diversity in or around Germany, 1 that's unclear but probably spread East mostly from near Germany, and none are older than 4000 years old or so. Actually, such high levels of I2c in Andalusia is really unexpected. What study says that and do we have STRs so that we can determine the cluster? If it's cluster "B" (the one that spread eastward into Asia) it would help prove that they were a "seafaring clan" as some have suggested.

    Until proven otherwise I'm guessing that this is just a case of a study not testing all the right SNPs and that it's actually undifferentiated "I2" and not true "I2*" (or current I2c or current I2b).

  13. #13
    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
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    But the map of haplogorup T looks awful for Spain. I mean, at Iberianroots Andalusia has 1% (n=193) yet in the map appears more than 4% ? Or Extremadura 0%, Castile-La-Mancha 0%, Castille León 0%, Argón 0% and they appear in the 3-4% range

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    But the map of haplogorup T looks awful for Spain. I mean, at Iberianroots Andalusia has 1% (n=193) yet in the map appears more than 4% ? Or Extremadura 0%, Castile-La-Mancha 0%, Castille León 0%, Argón 0% and they appear in the 3-4% range
    Iberian roots separate T and K, but as there isn't supposed to be any K* nowadays, I lumped all the K into hg T. That's why the frequencies are higher. There might some L included under K, but nothing substantial. Anyway any data we have is only a tiny fragment of each region's population, and frequencies are averages, and the map is made by segments of percentages based on these averages. So it is very approximate.

  15. #15
    Great Adventurer sparkey's Avatar
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    Maciamo, did you get the Andalusian Haplogroup I from Flores et al? If so, I think you're misinterpreting it. It only tested SNPs M170 (defines I) and M26 (defines I2a1a). So the part that you're interpreting as "I2*" is probably mostly I2a2a (until recently I2b1, would be I2b in your tables) and I1, with maybe some stray I2a2b's and I2a1b's. I would guess a relatively high amount of I1 due to how coastal Andalusia is, but I'm not sure about that. AFAIK there has yet to be any I2* or I2c found in Spain.

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Maciamo, did you get the Andalusian Haplogroup I from Flores et al? If so, I think you're misinterpreting it. It only tested SNPs M170 (defines I) and M26 (defines I2a1a). So the part that you're interpreting as "I2*" is probably mostly I2a2a (until recently I2b1, would be I2b in your tables) and I1, with maybe some stray I2a2b's and I2a1b's. I would guess a relatively high amount of I1 due to how coastal Andalusia is, but I'm not sure about that. AFAIK there has yet to be any I2* or I2c found in Spain.
    First of all, there are I2*'s in Anatolia and Armenia (and perhaps elsewhere in the Middle East too). I meant to say I* or I2* here. But you are probably right that most of the I that isn't I1 or I2b in Andalusia is I2a. I double-checked the STR values in the Adams et al. study, and found six I2a and three I2b samples in Andalusia, according to the Haplogroup I Predictor. I was misled by Iberianroots, which reported 5.18% of I* and only 0.52% of I2a in Andalusia. These members probably just failed to test their I subclades (which is pretty unbelievable, as serious testing companies always test at least the main I subclade, and even if they didn't it would be fairly obvious from the STR's in most cases).

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