Vlach haplogroups & deep ancestry?

800px-Romance_languages_and_Romanian.png


Let me state for the record that the Vlach language was a form of Romanian, hence the name Aromun (from Aromanian). However, it is officially called Macedo-Romanian and is on a very different playing field to the Latin spoken by the Romans.

As you can see from the above table, Dalmatian and the Ibero-Romance languages stem from Vulgar Latin as well but they do not carry any significant Roman U152 footprint.

Macedo-Romanian has far fewer Slavic words than Romanian, and many more Greek words, a reflection of the close contact of Aromanian with Greek through much of its history.

800px-South-Balkan-Romance-languages.png

Note: Macedonia depicted on this map refers to the modern state of FYROM and should not be confused with Central Macedonia located to the south in Northern Greece.

Here we can see the regions where Macedo-Romanian (yellow) is spoken and where Megleno-Romanian (purple) is spoken.

If you are trying to say that languages played a part in the U152 settlement , in which in italy is mostly in the North, then you language tree is in error because the Northern italian languages belong to the Gallo-Romance group and not the Proto-Italain group.

General classification


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Italian_languages

I do agree with you that the Roman Latin and Romanian is similar, but check the lost Latin areas in map in the link below


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Spezia-Rimini_Line

To conclude - The only U152 to have been settled in the area in question would only have come after the Roman occupation of all Italy and the use of gallic Romanized men, be them from france or Northitaly

David Faux states that there is only 1.8% of U152 in Romania area.

The only other possiblity is that the celts reached the Danube delta ( black sea) , they have some U152
Sometime between 400 and 270 BC western Celts settled in southern Poland, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria. Celtic place names even occur as far east as western Ukraine.(R1b1c10 and the Central European Celtic homeland)
I outlined observations based on the doubling of the sample size of my
R1b1c10 database at http://www.davidkfaux.org/R1b1c10_Data.htm.
 
The Vlachs being Latin-speakers, in a region that was mostly Greek-speaking from the Bronze Age until the Middle Ages, and with a substantial Slavic community since the Middle Ages, it seems inevitable to conclude that E1b1b was brought by Greek speakers.

What year are these vlachs?. You don't think that over 200Years of Genoese U152 settlements could have palyed a part?
http://www.revistapeuce.icemtl.ro/17 Oberlander .pdf.

merchants and royality was still using latin up to the 15th century.
 
I have added the Vlachs to Eupedia's Y-DNA tables. It makes it easier to visualise and compare. If there is one stark contrast between the Vlachs and the non-Vlach populations of the eastern Balkans (North Greece, Albania, Macedonia, Romania, Bulgaria) is that the Vlachs have considerably more R1b (21.5% against a regional average of 14.5%) and J2 (19.5% against 15%) and considerably less E1b1b (16.5% against 20%) than everybody else. The percentages of I2a2, G2a and T fit well in the average for the region. R1a is lower than in North Greece, Macedonia, Bulgaria or Romania, but similar to Albania.

L2_Percentage_of_U152.png

Based only on Dr. David Faux's database, but some numbers from the FTDNA project (Tibor) show a similar trend: L2 as a percentage of U152 increases as one nears the North Sea.

The sample size is too small and any conclusions regarding this graph for Romania would be premature, it does suggest that Romanian U152 is not of the L2+ variety.
 

The Aromun studied thus far have been from outside Greece. This is important as any convergence with the Greek percentages carries more weight and suggests what R1b and J2 levels may have looked like previously in Greece.

North Greece: I = 22.5% R1a = 18% R1b = 13% G = 4.5% J2 = 15% E = 20.5%

Vlachs outside Greece: I = 20.5% R1a = 10% R1b = 21.5% G = 3.5% J2 = 24.5% E = 16.5%


South Greece: I = 11.5% R1a = 10.5% R1b = 20.5% G = 3.5% J2 = 19.5% E = 27%

The marked decrease in I2 found in South Greece suggests a limited penetration from the north.
The high J2 figure for the Vlachs outside Greece is very interesting, suggesting that the Vlachs are of ancient Balkan stock and not an imported minority of Roman mercenaries as some have suggested. High R1b figures correlate well with South Greece (20.5%) and it would be interesting to compare figures with the Vlachs in Greece.

The Battaglia study found 17.4% R1b in a sample of 92 Greeks and 14% R1b in a sample of 57 Greeks from Central Macedonia in Greece. This suggests an increase in R1b frequency towards the South of 24%. This trend was replicated in the King study with 17% R1b on Crete and 15.8% R1b in the Peloponnese as opposed to only 5.3% in Thessaly.

Similar J2 trend exists in Greece with Crete and the Peloponnese (South Greece) indicating similar levels to the Vlach population studied thus far.
 

The Aromun studied thus far have been from outside Greece. This is important as any convergence with the Greek percentages carries more weight and suggests what R1b and J2 levels may have looked like previously in Greece.

North Greece: I = 22.5% R1a = 18% R1b = 13% G = 4.5% J2 = 15% E = 20.5%

Vlachs outside Greece: I = 20.5% R1a = 10% R1b = 21.5% G = 3.5% J2 = 24.5% E = 16.5%


South Greece: I = 11.5% R1a = 10.5% R1b = 20.5% G = 3.5% J2 = 19.5% E = 27%

The marked decrease in I2 found in South Greece suggests a limited penetration from the north.
The high J2 figure for the Vlachs outside Greece is very interesting, suggesting that the Vlachs are of ancient Balkan stock and not an imported minority of Roman mercenaries as some have suggested. High R1b figures correlate well with South Greece (20.5%) and it would be interesting to compare figures with the Vlachs in Greece.

The Battaglia study found 17.4% R1b in a sample of 92 Greeks and 14% R1b in a sample of 57 Greeks from Central Macedonia in Greece. This suggests an increase in R1b frequency towards the South of 24%. This trend was replicated in the King study with 17% R1b on Crete and 15.8% R1b in the Peloponnese as opposed to only 5.3% in Thessaly.

Similar J2 trend exists in Greece with Crete and the Peloponnese (South Greece) indicating similar levels to the Vlach population studied thus far.

The higher frequency of R1b and J2 in South Greece is interesting because it makes the cradle of the Classical Greek Antiquity (Athens, Corinth, Sparta, Olympia...) closer to the Romans.

However, if you insinuate that the Vlachs come from South Greece, then I have to disagree. Why would they speak Latin (then Aromanian) if they were from Greece, since Latin was never widely spoken in Greece even under the Roman occupation ? (actually it is the educated Romans who learnt Greek rather than the other way round)
 
The higher frequency of R1b and J2 in South Greece is interesting because it makes the cradle of the Classical Greek Antiquity (Athens, Corinth, Sparta, Olympia...) closer to the Romans.
300px-Ancient_Regions_Peloponnese.png


Were you aware that the Sabines formed one of the three original tribes of Rome. The Sabines were from the Peloponnese (Laconia) and claimed Spartan descent.

In the 6th century BC the Roman populace was originally made up of the Ramnes (Latins) represented by Horatius; the Titienses (Sabines) represented by Armenius, and the Luceres (Etruscans) represented by Lartius.

However, if you insinuate that the Vlachs come from South Greece, then I have to disagree. Why would they speak Latin (then Aromanian) if they were from Greece, since Latin was never widely spoken in Greece even under the Roman occupation ? (actually it is the educated Romans who learnt Greek rather than the other way round)

You are assuming the ancient Vlach spoke Latin first before the development of Aromanian. What makes you so sure they were native Latin speakers to begin with and not native Greek speakers?

Aromanian is suggestive of a likely Greek people who originally spoke and wrote in Greek, lived alongside Romanian speakers, and formed a dialect of Romanian that was exclusively written in the Greek alphabet. The Romanians use the Latin alphabet and are known to have originally done so, unlike the Aromun.

The original written form of Aromanian uses the Greek alphabet where in Romania and in Greece the Vlachs still ONLY use the Greek alphabet, refusing to use the Latin alphabet. This practice stretches to at least the 9th century where the earliest known Aromanian manuscripts bare testimony to the already well established Greek vocabulary and the Greek form used by the Vlachs.

The attached thumbnail illustrates how the Vlach (Wallachia) States were cut off from the Byzantine Empire isolating them.
 

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You are assuming the ancient Vlach spoke Latin first before the development of Aromanian. What makes you so sure they were native Latin speakers to begin with and not native Greek speakers?

How would they speak Aromanian is they didn't speak Latin before ? How would Aromanian even exist if there wasn't a isolated eastern group of Latin speakers whose language evolved separately from other Romance languages ?

Aromanian is suggestive of a likely Greek people who originally spoke and wrote in Greek, lived alongside Romanian speakers, and formed a dialect of Romanian that was exclusively written in the Greek alphabet. The Romanians use the Latin alphabet and are known to have originally done so, unlike the Aromun.

The original written form of Aromanian uses the Greek alphabet where in Romania and in Greece the Vlachs still ONLY use the Greek alphabet, refusing to use the Latin alphabet. This practice stretches to at least the 9th century where the earliest known Aromanian manuscripts bare testimony to the already well established Greek vocabulary and the Greek form used by the Vlachs.

The attached thumbnail illustrates how the Vlach (Wallachia) States were cut off from the Byzantine Empire isolating them.

They only use the Greek script because it was the most common script in the Byzantine Empire, even before the fall of the Western Roman Empire. Greek was the language of administration in all the Near East and Middle East since Alexander's conquest. Latin never replaced it when the Romans conquered those territories. The administration of Roman Greece, Anatolia, Syria or Egypt was always done in Greek (language and script), not in Latin. In this context it is not surprising that an isolated group of Latin speakers should use the Greek script. As for their genetic origins, the Vlachs are obviously dominant Greek-Albanian with the likely admixture of a Roman minority. If they were simply Greek, why on earth would they speak a Romance language and have more R1b than any other Greeks (even South Greeks and Cretans) ?
 
How would they speak Aromanian is they didn't speak Latin before ?

There are numerous examples where a local language is modified by a foreign group who bring their culture into the mix. The Yiddish language is but one example where despite the language being classified as 'High German' it only has a Hebrew written form.

How would Aromanian even exist if there wasn't a isolated eastern group of Latin speakers whose language evolved separately from other Romance languages ?

How would Aromanian even exist if there wasn't an isolated eastern group of Greek speakers whose language evolved separately from other Greeks being influenced by native Romanian speakers?

They only use the Greek script because it was the most common script in the Byzantine Empire, even before the fall of the Western Roman Empire. Greek was the language of administration in all the Near East and Middle East since Alexander's conquest. Latin never replaced it when the Romans conquered those territories. The administration of Roman Greece, Anatolia, Syria or Egypt was always done in Greek (language and script), not in Latin. In this context it is not surprising that an isolated group of Latin speakers should use the Greek script. As for their genetic origins, the Vlachs are obviously dominant Greek-Albanian with the likely admixture of a Roman minority.

Actually the most common script in Romania was Cyrillic, not Greek. The Bulgarian Empire made sure of this since the 10th century. So the fact that they used the Greek alphabet and neither the Romanian Cyrillic nor Latin is suggestive that they were originally Greek. Remember that the Vlach continue to use the Greek alphabet in Romania, exclusively. It has been more than a 1000yrs since they were cut off by the Bulgarian Empire.

Genetically the Vlach outside Greece correspond with South Greece. The lower R1b found in South Greece is hardly surprising as the Peloponnese was repopulated by Ibrahim Pasha in 1825 during the Greek War of Independence. Not to even mention 400yrs of Ottoman rule and the massacres on Crete.

Albanian R1b has a different structure to the South Greek and Vlach R1b. There is an Albanian cluster that is common only in the Albanian R1b population. Similarly the J2 common in Albania is not of the predominantly J2a1b-M67 subclade found in the Greek and Vlach population. Besides the Arbareshe population in Calabria has about 3% J2.:)
arbereshe.jpg

Semino et al. (2004)

The Arbereshe sample analysed by Semino et al. (2004) lacks the typically Balkan J2-M12 chromosomes. If we interpret the Arbereshe sample as representative of the founding Albanian population, we may hypothesize that the J2 haplogroup was considerably less diffuse in the southern Balkans 5 centuries ago. In contrast, most of the haplotypes in the other clusters (i.e. Greek Calabrians) agree with the STR configuration given for the J2-M67 clade, with its sub-clade J2-M92 (Di Giacomo et al. 2004). It is unconvincing to attribute the rarity of J2 in the Arbereshe to random sampling or to the effect of genetic drift. So yes, the Vlach do appear to be Greek afterall, not Albanian.:shocked:

If they were simply Greek

Wallachia (Vlahia) used by Romanians themselves, is a term derived from the Germanic 'walha' to describe non-Germanic speaking "foreigners". Similarly, in northwest Europe this gave rise to Wales and Wallonia. I don't suppose you really believe that the Vlach population was formed from the Roman incursions of 106AD. Such a small force of Roman mercenaries, all deciding to use Greek and bringing a lot of J2 with them. How funny is that!
 
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I would like to say some facts that most people are not aware or most of them didn't pay attention on that...

Have you ever asked yourself why for example region in Romania, called Wallachia is called wallachia? or why WALES is called WALES in Britain? Or why name VALONS for people in Belgium? and many other similar names for places in Europe, well there is connection between that names, but not with that people, and it is connected to romans, or it's better to say: roman citizens of roman empire.

Well you see, barbarian people (germans and slavs) after fall of western roman empire, when migrating to once roman provinces, they found there a autohtone roman society, not ROMANS as romans from region LAZIO, but ex-roman citizens, means ROMANS by culture and civilization, means much advanced than slavs and german conqurers were...

When they encountered them, before they mixed with them, they made a names for them, and names were what we say in serbia and croatia: VLAH, or as in Romania WALLACHIA, or as in Britain WALES, or as in BELGIUM Valons... THAT TERM VLAH, was term for autohtone advanced ROMAN society after fall of western roman empire.

For example, here in croatian region DALMATIA, once roman province Dalmatia, when croats/slavs came here, they settled in area around big cities at dalmatian coasts... in that cities lived roman people, even after fall of the empire, slavs named them VLAHS or wallachians, soon after that, around late 7 and 8 century slavs/croats started to MIXED with that romans/vlahs, and becouse of that, today dalmatian croats, and croats from herzegovina, have still 60% of I2a2 haplogroup (highest in Europe), which is reminder on that mixing with autohtone romanized/roman society of roman empire... Don't get me wrong, I2a2 is not roman haplogroup, but haplogroup of that particular roman autohtone citizens of roman province Dalmatia...

I hope you undarstand what I'm talking about... similar happenings happened in rest of Europe, on areas of ex-roman empire...such was Wales, Valonians, Wallachians etc... With exception of Wallachia becouse Wallachians kept their Roman language even today, and isn it interesting that Polish name for Italy is Wlochy? I hope you get the point :)

In Dalmatia, latin Dalmatian language died 1898, and that was not long time ago... 1898 died the last speaker of latin dalmatian language on Island Krk in Croatia... Today in Dalmatia we have reverse situation than in 8 century, today citizens from coastal cities in Dalmatia call WLACHS/VLAHS people in continental dalmatia...

In today Serbia, you have people who even today for their nationality place name: WLACHS/VLAHS, but difference between for example serbian wlachs (who declared themselfs in nationality as WLACHS), and dalmatian Wlachs, or Welsh, or valons, is that dalmatian wlachs are CROATS today, and welsh wlachs are WELSH today, or valon wlachs are VALONS today... they've lost their sence for nationality as wlachs (roman autohtone society) long long time ago... and there is no genetical connection between croat wlachs and serbian wlachs, or croat wlachs with welsh wlachs or valons etc...
 
Here is some more interesting info from Wiki:

Wlah

The word Vlach is ultimately of Germanic origin, from the word Walha, "foreigner", "stranger", a name used by ancient Germanic peoples to refer to Romance-speaking and Celtic neighbours. As such, it shares its history with several ethnic names all across Europe, including the Welsh and Walloons.[4] Slavic people initially used the name Vlachs when referring to Romanic people in general. Later on, the meaning became narrower or just different. For example, Italy is called Włochy in Polish

The term Vlach is originally an exonym. All the Vlach groups used various words derived from romanus to refer to themselves: Români, Rumâni, Rumâri, Aromâni, Arumâni etc. (note: the Megleno-Romanians nowadays call themselves "Vlaşi", but historically called themselves "Rămâni"[citation needed]; The Istro-Romanians also have adopted the names Vlaşi, but still use Rumâni and Rumâri to refer to themselves).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs


I found the above info looking for origin of people for Galicja/Galicia/Halicja. This region was possibly populated by Vlahs for some time, as it is bordering with Moldavia where they lived too.
I was also trying to find some connection with Celts, because of close similarity to Iberian Galicia, but there wasn't much to connect.
Here is what I've found:

Ruthene dialects


Several distinct dialects of the East Slavic branch are spoken in the Carpathian highlands and are called Ruthene (in German) or Rusyn (in Russian). These territories were subject to lengthy arguments between Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia and Russia for over a thousand years, today they are Ukrainian, though a part of Ruthene people live also in Slovakia, Romania and Hungary. Their culture is quite original, as well as their tongue which is usually subdivided into three dialects: Lemko, Bojko, and Hutsul.
The Ruthene language is part of the southwestern group of Ukrainian Ruthene dialects, which include Bojkian, Transcarpathian (Highlander or Verchovyna), Sjan (northeast of the Lemko Region), and Hutsul. The Lemko dialects are very similar to those on the southern slopes of the mountains (the Presov Region), also considered Ruthene dialects.
The Lemko dialects are characterized (and distinguishable from the Ukrainian language) by fixed stress on the penultimate syllable of words (as in Polish and eastern Slovak dialects, in contrast to movable stress in all other East Slavic languages); retention of the distinct vowel bl (y). Some verb conjugations are of the Slovak and Polish forms. Lemko dialects contain many unique forms, as well as words of Polish, Slovak, and even German or Hungarian origin.
http://indoeuro.bizland.com/tree/slav/ruthene.html

http://indoeuro.bizland.com/tree/slav/sla.html

This is polish highlander/goral from Galicja in ethnic costume, left. On right Portuguese Galician:

med.jpgbogactwo1.jpg

Also there might be some similarity to highlanders from Albania:
Pants and a vest.
Clothing_of_Albania_003.jpg

I have no idea what to think about this, just pointing some similarities, lol.
 
there is a big difference among Aromani kai wallachians,

vlach in Aromani comes from the word Villachians ->.... Vlachians and means villagers,
there 4-5 kinds of Aromani,

the kutsuk Vlachs which Italy consider them Italians and made them a kingdom in WW2
comes from turkish word and means small
the Moschopolis Vlachs in Epirus and Albania and some parts of Fyrom
the Moesian Vlachs with their Famous Hero Georgakis Olympios who started Greek revolt in Ias Romania,
the low Makedonia Vlachs
the south Mountain Vlachs of Greece
the Vlachs of East Bulgaria,
The Vlachs of ex south Yugoslavia for wich I know little things,

I don't know about the Vlachs Genes, but even they say that are 3 major Groups,
the Vlachs that come from Roman Villas in Greece, farmers in Roman houses and plantations,
the Vlachs around East Thrace, which were Latin Speakers of Byzantine Empire,
the Vlachs that had Rulling positions in Moesia Romania,

I repeat I don't know about the ex-Yugoslavia Vlachs,

their Origin could Be either Local Balcanic (Greeks -Thracians etc) who were Latinised
or from Italy following Senators that gain properties in Balkans,
remember that first Byzantine emperors were latin speakers
and Con/polis was named New Rome,

their connection with Wallachians I believe is small
words like Walha Valhalla and william Wallace are not romano-balcanic, but Northern
at least the south Aromani you may here the elder call them selves V(i)llachoi meaning the one who live in Villas (villages)

It seems like the officers of Latin speaking people who lived in cities learn the Greek language like the famous Families of Rulers in Moldo-wallachia but the villagers don't until the late centuries,
 
Hi there,
sorry for english, my grand-grand father was coming from Romania, speaking that dialect, Vlahika, that most of our people are still speaking. Very strong language, as far concern the people were nomads, which means that were moving many times during Spring-Summer and Fall in order to feed their animals.
However, he found Papigo, to stay and get his family to stay there, I have never got the chance to learn that language

Regards
Grigoris
 
Hi there,
sorry for english, my grand-grand father was coming from Romania, speaking that dialect, Vlahika, that most of our people are still speaking. Very strong language, as far concern the people were nomads, which means that were moving many times during Spring-Summer and Fall in order to feed their animals.
However, he found Papigo, to stay and get his family to stay there, I have never got the chance to learn that language

Regards
Grigoris

there are many kinds of Villachi -βλαχοι
the term comes from Latin word for village compare βιλλα -βιγλια a kind of Latin house keeping and village,
the word gets apokope αποκοπη Vilachi -i -> Vlach

there many kind of Vlachs as also many dialects
major in Greece are
the Moesian Vlachs -Μοσιο 'η μοσχο Βλαχοι
the moschopolis Vlachs - Arbanto-Vlachs αρβαντοβλαχοι
the thettalian Vlachs Kutsuk Vlachs Κουτσο-βλαχοι
are the biggest in Greece
smaller spots are
the Vlachs of Nymfaion Nedeskes
the vlachs of Peloponese
the vlachs of south Pindus
Vlachs exist in all Balkanic countries, and have no connection with Wallachia but with roman Villas

Vlachika is mostly Dialects of Latin which according area fits with the local sounds and words,
most relative language lingua franca is romanian as spoken in south East romania
 
I would like to say some facts that most people are not aware or most of them didn't pay attention on that...

Have you ever asked yourself why for example region in Romania, called Wallachia is called wallachia? or why WALES is called WALES in Britain? Or why name VALONS for people in Belgium? and many other similar names for places in Europe, well there is connection between that names, but not with that people, and it is connected to romans, or it's better to say: roman citizens of roman empire.

Well you see, barbarian people (germans and slavs) after fall of western roman empire, when migrating to once roman provinces, they found there a autohtone roman society, not ROMANS as romans from region LAZIO, but ex-roman citizens, means ROMANS by culture and civilization, means much advanced than slavs and german conqurers were...

When they encountered them, before they mixed with them, they made a names for them, and names were what we say in serbia and croatia: VLAH, or as in Romania WALLACHIA, or as in Britain WALES, or as in BELGIUM Valons... THAT TERM VLAH, was term for autohtone advanced ROMAN society after fall of western roman empire.

For example, here in croatian region DALMATIA, once roman province Dalmatia, when croats/slavs came here, they settled in area around big cities at dalmatian coasts... in that cities lived roman people, even after fall of the empire, slavs named them VLAHS or wallachians, soon after that, around late 7 and 8 century slavs/croats started to MIXED with that romans/vlahs, and becouse of that, today dalmatian croats, and croats from herzegovina, have still 60% of I2a2 haplogroup (highest in Europe), which is reminder on that mixing with autohtone romanized/roman society of roman empire... Don't get me wrong, I2a2 is not roman haplogroup, but haplogroup of that particular roman autohtone citizens of roman province Dalmatia...

I hope you undarstand what I'm talking about... similar happenings happened in rest of Europe, on areas of ex-roman empire...such was Wales, Valonians, Wallachians etc... With exception of Wallachia becouse Wallachians kept their Roman language even today, and isn it interesting that Polish name for Italy is Wlochy? I hope you get the point :)

In Dalmatia, latin Dalmatian language died 1898, and that was not long time ago... 1898 died the last speaker of latin dalmatian language on Island Krk in Croatia... Today in Dalmatia we have reverse situation than in 8 century, today citizens from coastal cities in Dalmatia call WLACHS/VLAHS people in continental dalmatia...

In today Serbia, you have people who even today for their nationality place name: WLACHS/VLAHS, but difference between for example serbian wlachs (who declared themselfs in nationality as WLACHS), and dalmatian Wlachs, or Welsh, or valons, is that dalmatian wlachs are CROATS today, and welsh wlachs are WELSH today, or valon wlachs are VALONS today... they've lost their sence for nationality as wlachs (roman autohtone society) long long time ago... and there is no genetical connection between croat wlachs and serbian wlachs, or croat wlachs with welsh wlachs or valons etc...

exactly.
Vlach is not about origin from single tribe. it is about many different unrelated people who were at some point in time converted to citizens of Roman empire...
 
exactly.
Vlach is not about origin from single tribe. it is about many different unrelated people who were at some point in time converted to citizens of Roman empire...

The common point of "Walach"/"Walloon"/"Welsh" is not so much about being Roman citizens, but being foreigners to the Germanic tribes. Only that the meaning shifted over time.
 
The common point of "Walach"/"Walloon"/"Welsh" is not so much about being Roman citizens, but being foreigners to the Germanic tribes. Only that the meaning shifted over time.
i am focused on Walach/Vlah... in south east and central europe (Greece, ex-Yugoslavia, Albania, Slovakia) it is about local speakers of language derived from latin...
russian primary chronicle refer to Roman empire as Vlakhs...


can you elaborate the reasoning that claims that in Germanic languages it was originally about foreigners in general and not about speakers of Romance languages in particular...
 
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I heard of a theory that states that:
Vlachs were pastoralist Romans (Roman citizens) of the Balkans who avoided being assimilated by the Slavs, due to their place of inhabitance being mostly limited to the mountains (Dinarid alps). They afterwards migrated to Romania which was underpopulated due to extermination by the Romans.

This would explain why so many Romanians have surnames which have to do with a pastoralist lifestyle. Example: Ciobanu

Source of the theory: http://www.imninalu.net/myths-Vlach.htm
 
"in the lands north of the lower Danube we do not find any inherited Latin toponyms: not a single name of a Roman town or any other kind of settlement was preserved. The most obvious explanation of this is that the Slavs did not find Latin-speaking inhabitants when they migrated to these territories in the 6th-7th centuries."

"
Indeed, the Dacians have nothing or very little to do with modern Romanians and their language was not related at all with Latin ‒ there is no possible cultural or ethnic continuity between the Dacians and the Romans, and even if it was, it would be irrelevant with regards to the historic rights over Transylvania. The Vlach were not Dacians, but an Illyric people, originated in the south-western Balkans by the south-eastern coast of the Adriatic Sea ‒ namely, the present-day Albania and Slavic Macedonia."

"
Historical records and archaeological finds show overwhelming evidence that by that time and until the 12th century c.e., the Vlach people, that spoke Romanian language and had Romanian culture and religious tradition, were dwelling in another place: in southern Illyria, from where the majority of them were slowly moving towards present-day Romania through a long-lasting sojourn in Bulgaria."

"
It was in the 11th century c.e. that the Vlach language split into the present-day Romanian and Aromanian. The first group crossed the Danube and settled in Cumania, then re-named Walachia after them. The earliest records of their presence in Transylvania do not precede the 13th century c.e, when Romanians were offered asylum by the Hungarian Kingdom after the Turks seized Walachia."
 
@Templar


Sounds like Hungarian cheap propaganda.
Scottish people are shepherds.Are they Vlahs too?
You don't have Hong-Kong like density in Albania.
Magyar chronicle says that when they entered Hungary they encountered Slavs and Vlahs.Anonymous-"Slavi, Bulgarii, et Blachi ac pastores Romanorum."
Romanian and Slavic languages both expanded as lingua franca(through Christianity) explaining why these languages are remarcably homogenous.



Why Regalianus claimed that he is descendant of Dacian king Decebalus?
The local people elected him Roman Emperor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regalianus



So what do you think about Galerius?
Was he nuts or many Dacians lived in the Roman Empire?

"Whatever, by the laws of war, conquerors had done to the conquered, the like did this man presume to perpetrate against Romans and the subjects of Rome, because his forefathers had been made liable to a like tax imposed by the victorious Trajan, as a penalty on the Dacians for their frequent rebellions."
"Long ago, indeed, and at the very time of his obtaining sovereign power, he had avowed himself the enemy of the Roman name; and he proposed that the empire should be called, not the Roman, but the Dacian empire."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galerius


Vulgar Latin "daca"-Dacian knife

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=dagger&searchmode=none

http://www.hadrians-wall.org/page.a...all-and-the-Roman-Sites/Birdoswald-Roman-Fort
 

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