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Thread: Vlach haplogroups & deep ancestry?

  1. #901
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    These shepherds disobeyed Viena's order to renounce to Orthodoxy and stirred up things in the area with help of a Bosnian monk,Bogdan Sarai.


    When the Habsburg troops reached the area,they all switched to guerrilla tactics, ending,eventually, in a high security prison near T-roll.

  2. #902
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    Under what ...circumstances," Radano,Principe infedelde di Bulgaria* "orders to Venetians 10000 horse armours to defeat Hungary?

    *di Bulgaria,because he saves and occupies the Vidin Tsardom

    **don't answer Serbs...


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radu_I_of_Wallachia

  3. #903
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parapolitikos View Post
    One theory , is that they were descendants of Byzantine Empire's retired soldier who once they reached a certain (older)age, they were given land and kept as reserve troops known as apomaxoi
    The official language of Byzantine empire was Latin until the 6th-7th century, and was certainly the lingua franca of the roman army. That the Vlach language has great similarities with Romanian it is only natural due to the the common roots of the languages, from eastern vulgar Latin. In the same manner that the iberian languages,the occitanian languages, the italian dialects have common orings in the vulgar latin accent spoken respectively in each region. Similarly, Romanian and Vlach descend from vulgar balkanic latin.
    Another theory is that Vulgar latin came with refugees from Balkan interior pressured by the slavic or goth population migrations. Illyric tribes should have been thoroughly latinized(in the upper Balkans) as they have been in the Latin linguistic sphere of influence.
    Either way Vlach and Romanian intelligibility should be much lower than the one Spanish have with Portuguese.

    Is that obvious?

    I think you just meant "in the background", not retired".


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k5dkOKNpwpI

    This cap,caciula,is still in use in the area.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batt...cle_Posada.jpg



    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...C_Geissler.jpg

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    Romanian Cyrillic alphabet was adapted to use the Latin g,kept especially in the Wallachian speech,you don't see it replaced to dz that's for sure.

    Kinda bold action,don't you think?


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhe

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    De Bruyne,1576-1578


    1)Wallachian rider


    2)Wallachian archer


    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qSFdDy17E1...s1600/004.jpeg



    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LZhSp5kJ7Z.../s1600/005.png



    anthropological analysis:


    1)dinaro-alpine,slight pamirid influence


    2)dinaro-baltic,dinaro-balto-gorid

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    Vlachs inherit the haplogroups of the local population, they are not some unique case here.

    Vlachs exist in all-over Eastern Europe. They are mostly local East/South East Euros who adopted Latin in the years of the Roman Empire and onwards.

  7. #907
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    Not quite, Merlin.


    "Primo enim occur it desertum Bulgariae,quod est Terra Blacti,ubi vicus Ravana et vicus Nifa."



    https://books.google.ro/books?id=S9n...lgaria&f=false


    Lots of Hungarian documents recorded Romanians living in the forests (Hungarian Latin Silva ), originally inhabited by the bears wolves and squirrels.



    This idea is nothing new,so we can safely call it simple supposition, contradicted by the historical sources.



    http://mek.niif.hu/03400/03407/html/73.html

  8. #908
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    Even where Romanians were a clear minority, they have managed to keep important ethnic boundaries for long time.



    https://books.google.ro/books?id=Lt3...vlachs&f=false



    About an Moravian Vlach that came to town:
    "He was like a shepherd among the noisy cattle,which seems to migrate without a cowherder,he cannot understand this way of life so he quickly drives his herd up in the mountains, only there he can find peace."


    (From Ius valachicum to the Vlach folcloric influences within Central Europe)

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    As a personal remark,I could have choose to be conservative like my (great-)grandparents(who raised me,my parents don't enter the charts here either),but since I was a small kid,it was my turn to draw clear lines even since ,I choose 100% independence from my big family and gathered data from all over the places to make my own brand,from American,Russian,Italian movies, eurodance90's,various Romanian influences,etc.,with good results.


    However, I kinda controlled these too,that's why there are still a lot of differences in regards with the town people...

  10. #910
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    In the case of Romanians, the y-hg boundaries with North Slavic and Hungarian speakers are very clear:


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3131682/


    The Moravian Vlachs lineages have way more I2a than the surrounding Czech populations, just the same as the Moldavians, in comparison with the Russians, Ukrainians and Poles.


    Without a doubt there are lots of I2a Romanian-Vlach clusters,the question is ,how easy to be recognized are these?


    I2a could have ultimately come from the Northern Greeks/Macedonians (who lived among lots of Vlachs) or South Slavs,because the Vlachs,as very good warriors always searched for political affirmation, alliances.


    Then ,this hg was spread as a prestige signal among Vlachs,I2a was a sign of wealth and power,after all ,see the Asens,Kaloyan.


    I wonder if the Moldavian Musat (Old Romanian for handsome)family ultimately had searched ancestry/allegiance from Kaloyan(Greek for Handsome John).


    If this is true ,then,unlike the Bulgarians,Kaloyan's name was translated from Greek by the Moldavians.

  11. #911
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  12. #912
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    From the same paper(around 1580):

    "Another mention of the Vlach communities was a letter by the Catholic bishop of the town of Hukvald sent to the Spanish count de Fuentis in which he promised ten or more brave and skillful Vlach men for protections against robbers during his journey to Prague.



    Two days later 8 strong men arrived at the Bishop's residence and for three days they entertained the local nobility and their guests with bagpipes and dulcimers showing their musical talents and skillful technique through many beautiful songs."

  13. #913
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    Vioara doesn't come from Italian viola,both words simply share the same Latin root.


    Regardless of the root(some say vitula),in Romanian the intervocalic consonant also falls,while the l-r rhotacism proves that this term is inherited.

    This form appears in other words, Latin in etymology,the typical result for a V-I-consonant-vowel(o,u)-la construction.


    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/vioară#Romanian

  14. #914
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    EDIT

    Hint,vioara didn't looked like a violin, in the first place,could have been generally used for string instruments.

  15. #915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreptul Valah View Post
    Not quite, Merlin.
    "Primo enim occur it desertum Bulgariae,quod est Terra Blacti,ubi vicus Ravana et vicus Nifa."
    https://books.google.ro/books?id=S9n...lgaria&f=false
    Lots of Hungarian documents recorded Romanians living in the forests (Hungarian Latin Silva ), originally inhabited by the bears wolves and squirrels.
    This idea is nothing new,so we can safely call it simple supposition, contradicted by the historical sources.
    http://mek.niif.hu/03400/03407/html/73.html

    Kekaumenos,about the Vlach rebellion from Thessaly,"The Emperor asked them, where are your women?and they all answered, "In the Bulgarian mountains(Bulgarian theme)".



    " This area(Lailias forest) is used by the Vlachs as a place where various folkloric events take place."


    https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._open_software

  16. #916
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    https://historywitch.com/tag/muma-padurii/


    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/mumă


    Wallachian word branca(a hand),from Latin branca,see also Codrii Vlasiei.


    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/brâncă#Romanian


    While in Romanian and Aromanian codru is the word for forest,Albanian has koder that means hill,mountain.



    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/codru#Romanian


    EDIT

    Branca is 100% inherited, because it also appears in remote mountain regions from Transylvania.
    Last edited by Dreptul Valah; 27-05-19 at 12:25.

  17. #917
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Kodër in Albanian is hill. Mal is the word for mountain.
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.


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  19. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Kodër in Albanian is hill. Mal is the word for mountain.

    This is not so important, where the Albanian saw the hill near his valley(with the Slavs behaving the same,see Zagora), the Romanian-Vlach spotted his living space,more specifically, the forests that form the hills/ mountains,and these differences took place at least from the Roman times.


    "As many as 100 kilometers of forest roads..."


    http://www.blanca-resort.com/en/o-hotelu/o-vlasicu

  20. #920
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    I see your handle is 'Litovoi'. In my family I have a family name Lidovoi that is from Vatos on Corfu. In Greek the name is written Λιντοβόη.

    What do you know about this name?

    Thank-you in advance

  21. #921
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    That's a very good question,Litovoy(Slavic for Fierce Warrior, a "stage name" basically) was very used 800-1000 years ago,in the areas of Greece that strikingly overlap with the Aromanians.


    Caught somewhere between the Slavs and Greeks,the Aromanians have managed to signal their status,by wearing this kind of names.

  22. #922
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    I don't know if Muma Padurii is Sumska Majka,even if the names are the same,because she basically...represents a dryad, that is a deity of the tree,turned into a witch.



    https://www.delfi.rs/_img/artikli/20...a_majka_vv.jpg


    https://www.zajednicavlahasrbije.com...a2a8_05_06.jpg

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    EDIT


    About the second picture,if she stayed all day long into the forest,how she got tanned?

  24. #924
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    Baci,the Master Shepherd, in Romanian,equivalent of the Aromanians celnic(that also appears in South-Slavic),with no valid etymology.



    I think it's a Dacian word,PIE root,*bak-(staff,beak,bill),cognate to Latin bacillus,Greek baktron,,that has the sense,"Staff Bearer",it's not Romance because the intervocalic c doesn't fall.


    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Rec...-European/bak-



    It ultimately has to be similar in meanings with celnic(chelnik),the Slavic word for strategos.



    http://www.promacedonia.org/en/ban/ma1.html
    Last edited by Dreptul Valah; 28-05-19 at 12:42.

  25. #925
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    Baciarka Franka,Polish Gipsy caricature song:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zPw_i49-atg
    Last edited by Dreptul Valah; 28-05-19 at 17:04.

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