Vlach haplogroups & deep ancestry?

Munti (Latin for Hill) Buzului (Buze- Albanian for Lips, Uje - water, Buzeuji - composite for touching the water, sounds like latinized Albanian for Mountain by the water...
 
Archetype0ne said:
In Albanian Bregas, means costal people... Yet Breg, or Berg means Mountain and Castel in the respective proto-slavic and proto-germanic languages respectively.
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Breg/Bereg/Bryag means coast in some Slavic languages.

Polish: brzeg
Bulgarian: bryag
Ukrainian/Russia: bereg
Macedonian: breg
 
Some anthropologists claim that the Romanians-Vlachs had more loose community structures than the Albanians, Greeks,Serbs or Southern Italians,because of the transhumance on very long distances, this also might imply a lot of things.
 
Dreptul Valah said:
Some anthropologists claim that the Romanians-Vlachs had more loose community structures than the Albanians, Greeks,Serbs or Southern Italians,because of the transhumance on very long distances, this also might imply a lot of things.
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Curious as to the implications. Express yourself.
 
Dreptul Valah said:
Some anthropologists claim that the Romanians-Vlachs had more loose community structures than the Albanians, Greeks,Serbs or Southern Italians,because of the transhumance on very long distances, this also might imply a lot of things.
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I do not think so! The Romanians were not traveling shepherds. They come from a population of farmers, seated and linked to their places. This is also evident from the linguistic and religious unity on territory of Romania. If they were a "loose community", then all the multiple invasions and great empires like Greeks, Romans, Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians and Russians who made big waves all around... would have broken this unity. Which is not the case!
 
Sometimes being loose is beneficial in retaining ones culture... Nomads are known for maintaining their way of life over millenia with great flexibility. I agree however that modern Romanians are a mix of both pastoral and farmer ancient populations, hence it is hard to deduce much about societal structures. Yamnaya proto-Romanians would most likely have been farmers, with settled animal domestication. While the ancient Balkan component would most likely have been pastoralist.
 
Archetype0ne said:
I suspect J2B2 was present ~>3300 years ago among proto-Thracian, proto-Illyrian/Pelasgian, proto-Dacian and Gaet populations... stemming from a common origin in the caucasus >4k years ago, and having taken two separate paths to the balkans, leading to the divide among Thracian/Dacian/Illyrian populations when they arriven the balaksn destination. One path of J2B2 would have taken would be around the black sea, through the Bassarabian gap in the Carpathian mountains as shephers, while the other path would have been through western Anatolia into Macedon - Vardar - Dardania. Hence the similarties, as well as the many differences from modern Romanian and Albanian, as well as the obvious pre-Slavic substratum in slavic languages today in the Balkans.
In Albanian Bregas, means costal people... Yet Breg, or Berg means Mountain and Castel in the respective proto-slavic and proto-germanic languages respectively. Bryges were indeed living in the coast, while Dardans were landlocked in Kosovo.
"Bryges or Briges (Greek: Βρύγοι or Βρίγες) is the historical name given to a people of the ancient Balkans. They are generally considered to have been related to the Phyrigans, who during classical antiquity lived in western Anatolia"
Thracian tribes, Pelasgian Tribes, were among the allies of the Troyans, among whom the Dardans were one of the two leading dynasties ~3300 years ago according to homer. Among the people that fought in the Trojan War these groups probably had an alliance based on common culture or shared values/ways of life, or even origin. If the hypothesis I gave above is to be taken seriously, J2B2 segment of Albanian population were similar in Blood and in language to the Thracians as well as Dacians and Gaets, so I would suspect J2B2 to be present among the pastoral communities in the region and possibly all the way to Ukraine, as well as Anatolia, with a common ancestor in Caucasus, yet differentiated do to the path they took into the Balkans to the point where Thracian and Illyrian had to be classified as different languages.
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i presume you got your info from this book
https://books.google.com.au/books?i...wAXoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=strabo bryges&f=false
 
The Daco-Romanians were organized in catuns/katuns,these were more or less small temporary villages that had wooden buildings,used by the shepherds when they moved in the mountains.




Aromanians had as a form of organization falcarea,who was also made from families (fumealj), the scholars say that probably this settlement was originally in the form of a curve
,from Latin falcalis,related to Italian falcatura.



https://educalingo.com/en/dic-it/falcatura




"Yet,the base of both were the families, with each clustered along a house,hut or tent", from an Aromanian study .



Another Aromanian source confirm that each family had the power to decide on which falcare will be joining.



These two structures were similar, however, falcarea was more mobile,present every time, even when they were on the road,while in the katun the leaders waited until the shepherds turned back into the mountains(this is well documented,see for instance the dramatization of it, in the movie " Intoarcerea Vlasinilor","The Return of the Vlachs").
 
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Another proof for the autonomy of the family in the Romanian-Vlach society:



"The shepherds from SE Bosnia,Hum,are also nomads,unlike the Serb,Bulgarian or Greek ones,they share a custom with the Farsherots,that are also conservative: in the winter,people gather in villages,while on the summer dwellings ,that are located down the valleys,they move after a 3-4 days walk.Very rarely you can find a more mature man at their sheepfolds,only their women are in charge there."(Th. Capidan)



These kind of activities are recorded in the Sadoveanu's novel,Baltagul,with the woman taking control of the shepfoold,when the men were gone with their sheeps.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hatchet_(novel)



This type of transhumance was/is also typical for the Daco-Romanians, the Aromanians have the reversed migrations:the summer is spent in the mountains, while the winter ,into the valleys.
 
@ArchetypeOne



I guess that some people are more ...proud of their national costume than others,but this isn't a fashion gallery ,stop patrolling, I mean it.



This should be available also for the Serb meteorologists from the Apricity.
 
The Hatchet,explained by the Romanian literary man Stefan Borbely,it was also based on traditional myths and legends,at least,that's how I understood :


https://books.google.ro/books?id=T5...RAB#v=onepage&q=the hatchet sadoveanu&f=false



The article from wikipedia is not that useful, the woman's husband was killed by other shepherds, who had constantly tried to catch him into a trap.



He sensed something, was not stupid, but had no other choice because he needed to buy sheeps,the others convinced him to go in the forest near the road,where they killed him with the hatchet from behind.
 
How is any of this related to haplogroups and deep ancestry?
 
"I have three things to say,two are positive,one,not so much".



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8i7pEPYEBJ0



I'm not in the mood for Jewish rhetoric here,the posts about history ,culture,etc. , on the thread are connected to genetics, because that's what real science is,if we're not too theoretical for you,just start another thread with a link to this one.

Ask Laberia,if you don't know how to do it.
 
Dreptul Valah said:
Other facts:



The name Ciobanu (The Shepherd) is most commonly used in Baragan,also appears in Central Moldavia, especially around Iasi.



Viezure,a Dacian name,Oltenia and Western Wallachia




Spulber,in South- Western Moldavia it makes sense since this is a mountain land and in my village the word is used for blizzard, winter ,snowy, wind.




https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/spulbera




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spulber




https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/viezure


Bucur,Bucharest area and the N,NE and E Wallachia.


https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/bucura#Romanian
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The Ciobanu actually comes from the Turkish Cioban
 
bigsnake49 said:
The Ciobanu actually comes from the Turkish Cioban
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And tattoo actually comes from Samoan,Facebook from American English,etc.
Turkish coban was also borrowed in all the Balkan languages,Polish,Hungarian, Ukrainian or Russian.



In Romanian it also has the typical pejorative, depreciative ,connotation, "a backward man", most certainly brought with the people of the Phanariote rule.



The origin of this sense comes from Constantinople,either Anatolian Greek or Turkish, it is about the " provincial,backward,people, that don't have access to civilization ".



It was an insult word used by the Anatolian Greeks towards the people from Greece,they call them "shepherds,vlachs",to be precise,Michael O'Sullivan,"The Greek Interwar Refugee Crisis...", pg.52, note 21.



The pejorative sense of the shepherd is not something new,see the Southern Italian song " U Pecuraru",that I've posted on this thread,however,in the Ottoman Empire this could also have been a cheap rhetoric, perhaps even regret ,because these were marginal people that couldn't be effectively controlled by the state,plus,since the Turks eat especially sheep meat,they were useful,tolerated, somehow.
 
That's why ,Sadoveanu still is my favorite author,the myths and legends that he described are actually support for an extremely real description of the common ,traditional, man.


He had Northern Carpathian(Bukovinian) ancestry, that has kept many Old Romanian, shepherd, traditions,that's why he was very determined to rehabilitate them.


In "The Hatchet", he presented the shepherds as a real thing,with a rawer life,but definitely not without initiative, determination ,intuition or an advanced sense of reality.
 
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