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Thread: Vlach haplogroups & deep ancestry?

  1. #101
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    E1b1b1a1 is about 29% in Montenegrins, 19% in Serbs, 19% in Upper Macedonians (former Yugoslav republic), 14% in Bosniacs.

    I don't know precisely in Bulgarians (in Eupedia is 24%).

    E1b1b1a1 is 45,6% in Geg Albanians in Kosovo (Pericic et al.), and 41,2% in Geg Albanians in Albania (Ferri et al.).

    E1b1b1a1 is 28,1% in Tosk Albanians.

    But it is surprising lack of J2 in Arbereshe (Albanian colonists in Calabria and Apulia). Geg Albanians have 23% J2 (Ferri et al.) and Tosk Albanians have 16,5% (Ferri et al.). I have no explanation for Arbereshe about the absence of J2. I would like to hear some opinion about this.
    Arbreshe community that reside in Italy should not be used as an example to determine what hg Albanians of middle ages had. Reason, they were mostly Tosks that emigrated to Italy from today's Greece and South Albania with a minority of Gheg element, and traveled in faras (Clans) as mercenaries (patriarchal). That should tell us that such groups were most likely not divers in halpogroups.

  2. #102
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skerdilaidas View Post
    Arbreshe community that reside in Italy should not be used as an example to determine what hg Albanians of middle ages had. Reason, they were mostly Tosks that emigrated to Italy from today's Greece and South Albania with a minority of Gheg element, and traveled in faras (Clans) as mercenaries (patriarchal). That should tell us that such groups were most likely not divers in halpogroups.
    Arberesh community, especially that of Hora in Sicily and the other 2 settlementgs are consider the pure Arbanon that Anna komnene describes,
    they belong to revolt group of Maniakis, and are known much before Arberia of Progon and Albania of Anju.
    they are the perfect group to find medieval and more ancient Albanian DNA
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Arberesh community, especially that of Hora in Sicily and the other 2 settlementgs are consider the pure Arbanon that Anna komnene describes,
    they belong to revolt group of Maniakis, and are known much before Arberia of Progon and Albania of Anju.
    they are the perfect group to find medieval and more ancient Albanian DNA
    They are not pure Arbanon. Before they left to Italy they had been living for 300 years in Morea (Peloponeses)
    They resisted Turkish occupation of Morea until they were decimated by the Turks. Turkey was way superior in numerical terms, cut their olive trees, burned their crops, eat their livestock and the Arbereshe were left with two alternatives; Die or Go to Italy. Today in Arbereshe settlements of Italy Arbereshe are the majority but there minorities living there too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    They are not pure Arbanon. Before they left to Italy they had been living for 300 years in Morea (Peloponeses)
    They resisted Turkish occupation of Morea until they were decimated by the Turks. Turkey was way superior in numerical terms, cut their olive trees, burned their crops, eat their livestock and the Arbereshe were left with two alternatives; Die or Go to Italy. Today in Arbereshe settlements of Italy Arbereshe are the majority but there minorities living there too.

    no they are the pure, the Arberesh of Hora Sicily are the purest Arber you can find, and they have the lowest Slavic admixture

    they went to Koroni Peloponese after the battle of Thessaloniki and the death of Maniakis,
    much before Arbanites invited by Latin rulers in Greece, much before Arbanon, much Before Albania,

    all the rest are Albanian immigrants, the true Arberesh are 3 villages Hora, sant Demetrio and 3rd is away from remembering now

  5. #105
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Arberesh community, especially that of Hora in Sicily and the other 2 settlementgs are consider the pure Arbanon that Anna komnene describes,
    they belong to revolt group of Maniakis, and are known much before Arberia of Progon and Albania of Anju.
    they are the perfect group to find medieval and more ancient Albanian DNA
    Yetos, I see that you are not very familiar with the chronological events and overall the history of Arbresh that reside in Italy. They first started to settle in Italy in 15th century, and have no connections whatsoever with Maniakis and the Principality of Arbanon (except that some of them might have migrated down to Greece from Central Albania about 200/300 years prior to their journey to Italy). The Arberesh that have preserved their culture to this day are Tosk in majority, while the Principality of Arbanon was Gheg!

    Most of today's Arbreshe that have preserved their culture actually decent from the Stratioti that settled there in 1500s, that migrated there from today's Greece, hence whey they were also considered "Greeks" in the beginning.

    Their most popular song that has survived to this day is actually a song about Morea, and how they migrated from there:




    Anyways, I want to say again that during those days Albanians warrior clans were quite compact in y-dna because of their patriarchy. My region where I come from, so far from all the people that have tested are either R1b, E-V13 or I1 because of these very traditions. So, if such a group emigrates or resettles in a different region, would not be ideal to study them and determine what y-dna Kosova Albanians have. Same thing with them, they mostly moved there from few regions....

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    Foarte interesant!

  7. #107
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Argeș(~SER+MAC)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Walati(Vlachs)

    Ethnic group
    Thraco-Roman
    Country: Romania



    A Morlach pair from Split(the Venetian/Italian term is Spalato,which

    in Romanian means "Washed"):









    "The Illyrian name(Splaunon, Splanum, Splanistae) of the town Split (‘Spalato’ in Italian) – whichprobably meant ‘town washed by the sea’ – verifies that another variant of the rootword *pleu was once *spleu, as shown – besides Romanian and Albanian – in theGerman word spülen (rinse)"


    http://www.zeitschrift-fuer-balkanol...viewFile/15/15


    EDIT:

    The morlachs were of Orthodox faith,mostly.

    EDIT2:

    A pattern of straightness.Should we try it again?

    http://www.academia.edu/7453833/Bein...8th_Centuries_
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 13-03-16 at 18:16.

  8. #108
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Romania



    Markeri STR autozomali





    versus Valahia Transilvania Moldova Dobrogea
    România (București) [91] 10 10 0 10
    Turcia [92] 20 55,55 44,44 22,22
    Grecia [53] 7,69 - - 7,69
    Italia [55] 23,07 - - 0
    Croația [51] 0 - - -
    Serbia [81] 0 6,66 6,66 0
    Ungaria (Budapesta) [33] 62,5 62,5 37,5 -
    Polonia [93] 73,33 66,66 33,33 -
    Belarus [79] 100 100 70 60

    0-related groups


    100-unrealted groups

    Source:Florin Stanciu"Analiza genetică a populațiilor umane de pe teritoriul României folosind markeri STR"


    Sample size:5777

    EDIT:

    The blood samples were taken from the suspects,victims or witnesses involved in trials,the database was provided by the National Agency of the Prisons(pg.12)
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 15-03-16 at 12:45.

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    To our Albanian girls:


    There seem to be no other papers,and yet,I know what you did last summer,you won't get away,


    "Another Romanian vernacular word is dandur (stranger) inthe Transylvanian dialect, of which no mention has been made so far and whoseAlbanian origin is also proved by István Schütz. This word also provides importantdata concerning the length of the Albanian-Romanian symbiosis and the assumptionthat the Romanians wandered from the Balkan Peninsula to the north in severalwaves, rather than all at once. The meaning of the Albanian base word dhëndër (inthe northern dialect dhânder) is son-in-law. We could ask with good reason: howcould such a great semantic change take place? Here is the way István Schütz argues:We can only understand this semantic transformation if we know the unwritten maritallaws that are still alive in the villages of Albanian uplands. [...] According to these rules,the boy brought his wife to the paternal home, but the girl was taken to her groom’sfather house, irrespective of whether he had won her by marital agreement or simplyrobbed her from her parents. [...] The wedding proposal and the redemption of theblood-revenge sworn for the robbery were arranged by either the fiancé’s father or theappointed mediators. Also, a host of mediators collected the bride and accompanied herto the groom’s house. Once, this was the first time the boy had seen the face of his futurewife. Three days after the wedding, the young wife visited her parents, accompaniedby her friends. However, the husband did not enter his father-in-law’s house.Thus, he remained a stranger in the eye of the girl’s family. The fact that the Albanianword was borrowed in the meaning ‘stranger’ clearly shows that the ancestors of today’sTransylvanian Romanians once lived in the neighbourhood of or mingled withAlbanian highlanders, and also knew their local customs "

    http://www.zeitschrift-fuer-balkanol...viewFile/15/15




    ,with this:

    https://books.google.ro/books?id=97T...lygamy&f=false


    EDIT:

    "In the medieval period, multiple wives were often obtained through kidnapping."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_Christianity
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 12-03-16 at 17:17. Reason: the proof

  10. #110
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    Important words(mostly of Classical Latin origin) that reveal a more civilized background:

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/scrie


    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C8%99ti

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/m%C4%83iestru#Romanian

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boare

    Latin sOl Romanian sOAre


    Latin bOreas Romanian bOAre

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/biseric%C4%83

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C3%AEn%C8%9Belege

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cuget

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jude#Romanian

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/merge

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mergo#Latin




    They had escaped from the absolute shepherdry(Vlachization),the 6-7 th c. Roman-Byzantine decentralization,caused by the Slavic-Avar invasions,and the Slavic influences.

    Jewelry terms without Albanian correspondences:

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/inel


    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cercel


    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/br%C4...C4%83#Romanian


    Just a thought:wouldn't this semantic change imply a military environment(it certainly wouldn't be the only one),having the meaning "keep it low profile,cause the enemy will see you"?

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mergo
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 12-03-16 at 18:15.

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    https://books.google.ro/books?id=vWP...govina&f=false



    https://books.google.ro/books?id=s6r...bsburg&f=false

    EDIT:

    Speaking of self-will,there is a very comprehensive Romanian proverb, composed only from Latin words:

    "Cainii latra,ursul merge"="The dogs bark,the bear walks"
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 14-03-16 at 21:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post


    Just a thought:wouldn't this semantic change imply a military environment(it certainly wouldn't be the only one),having the meaning "keep it low profile,cause the enemy will see you"?

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mergo



    This shift could had involved the (Danube) marshlands too,since Latin "mergo" refers to tacking some actions into the water(I dip (in), immerse; plunge into water; overwhelm, cover, bury, drown,I sink down or in, plunge, thrust, drive or fix in I engulf, flood, swallow up, overwhelm.)


    In the Roman times,the military activity seems to had overlapped with the swampland environment(mostly on the Danube limes),and this association is also present in another duo, "paludem-padure":

    http://www.christopherculver.com/lan...-urheimat.html



    The Huns and the Avars were skilful besiegers,so the city-dwellers too could've taken refuge into the swamp's forests.


    But the military factor might've been also involved in this process,maybe sometimes alongside the civilian one:the strategy would had involved ambushes, by using an unfamiliar environment for the steppe-people,but also to withdraw to safety for a better regroup.


    A very interesting semantic difference between these two substratum correspondences,Romanian "mal"(shore,bank),which in Albanian means "mountain", could've marked the initial geographical distribution pattern of the two populations.

    http://www.academia.edu/5766282/Comm..._and_Loanwords


    The Albanians too would've been (temporarly) disclosed from their environment(the mountains) by the invasions or summoned to help protect the limes,thus,learning how to "walk" into the "swamp-forest".


    Eventually ,both the Romanians and the Albanians had lost the swamps to the Slavs,withdrew into each owns mountains(because we have always had two languages),but they had returned to descend in it once again,where they had very few early contacts(possibly as temporary "guests"-the Slavs used to release their prisoners after a while;or maybe it was the movement caused by the transhumance) with the Early (Danubian) Slavs,as it is testified by this Early Slavic loan,before the metathesis of the liquids:"balta"(swamp).

    http://www.romanfrontier.eu/en/about...ine-and-danube

    http://www.danubeparks.org/?story=10

    https://www.icpdr.org/main/issues/wetlands

    https://books.google.ro/books?id=qTL...slavia&f=false

    EDIT:These are my ideas.

    EDIT2:

    The Romanians were inland people,because the autochthonous "mal" mainly refers to a river or lake bank,while the Latin "tarm" designates the sea shore.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C8%9B%C4%83rm#Romanian

    EDIT2.1:

    For the Romanians,the sea shore(tarm,from Latin terminus) was nothing more than an abstract notion designating the end of the land.
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 19-03-16 at 09:25.

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    "Without an own state, the Aromanians or the Vlachs were mentioned
    in the Byzantine sources only when they came to be involved in some
    way into the political and military history of the empire.
    In Macedonia, they were mentioned for the first time with the
    occasion of an event happened in 976. Several Vlachs called hoditai
    (“travelers”) killed David, the brother of the future Bulgarian tsar
    Samuel, on the road between Prespa and Kastoria. This testimony
    comes from an interpolation in the chronicle of Ioannes Skylitzes
    made by an unknown copyist who was obviously accustomed with
    the local history of Macedonia.1 According to Werner Seibt, the
    information comes from the lost work of Theodore of Sebasteia, who
    wrote a biography of Basil II2. The word hoditai, which does not mean
    “nomads”, concerns the same people who were recorded in the Serbian
    sources with the name kjelatori, involved in the military transportation.
    The name kjelatori renders the Romanian word of Latin origin călători
    (“travelers”). Mathias Gyóni, Radu C. Lăzărescu and Achille Lazarou
    sustained that the Vlachs guilty for that murder were guards of the
    military road and that they acted as representatives of the Byzantine
    authority against the rebelled Bulgarians3. If this information remains


    questionable, there is another source that reveals the beginning of the
    Vlach military units in the Byzantine army. Kekaumenos, the aristocrat
    from Larissa, has remembered that his grandfather, Niculitzas, was
    in the year 980 the commander of the Vlachs settled in the Hellas
    theme. This Niculitzas, who was the duke of that province, was also
    appointed by the emperor Basil II as archon of these Vlachs4. His title
    of duke is an anachronism, because the commander of Hellas was
    called strategos in Taktikon Scorialensis (975)5. During the lifetime
    of Kekaumenos, the themes were no more ruled by strategoi, but by
    dukes or katepanoi. Since the oral tradition from Larissa recorded that
    his grandfather was the chief of that province, Kekaumenos believed
    he was a duke.
    The fragment belongs to the section Logos basilikos, considered a
    different work by the last editor6. Even so scarce, the information is,
    as has shown the Romanian Byzantinist George Murnu, a proof that a
    particular territory existed in the theme of Hellas, a region that could
    be called Vlachia. Actually, the source tells even more if it is read with
    more attention. The function bestowed to Niculitzas in 980 was the
    command over an army corps recruited from the local Vlachs7. This
    function was received in exchange to the previous one, domestikos of
    the Exkubitors from the Hellas theme, which was given by Basil II to


    a German nobleman established in the empire. The Exkubitors were
    one of the fourth cavalry tagmata of the imperial guard established
    by Constantine V. In the 10th century, these elite troops were no more
    settled in Constantinople, being spread in various provinces which
    required a better defense8. Larissa remained in the following decades
    the garrison of the Excubitores unit. One of the chiefs of the rebellion
    of 1066, Theodore Petastos, was a skribon, the third officer in the
    structure of the tagma of Excubitors.9 It is obvious that Niculitzas was
    not downgraded, and this means that his new function was of a same
    kind, the command over a tagma. In that time, besides the troops that
    composed the army of a theme (peasant stratiotes who were mobilized
    when it was needed), some provinces had a permanent force, a kernel
    to which these stratiotes were added in the wartime. These permanent
    units were called too tagmata10. The Vlachs commanded by Niculitzas
    were most probable such a tagma. Being an important part of the
    population of Thessaly and being good horsemen because their way of
    life, it was normal that some of them were recruited in these permanent
    elite forces."

    https://www.academia.edu/18072996/Vl...pje_2015_47-55


    "Simultaneously, the existence of the hussars "inherited" from the Byzantine military
    machinery of the 10th century intermediated through the Balkan can likely be detected in
    the southern border regions of Hungary in the 14th century. In other words, not only the
    ancestors of the succeeding Hungarian hussars should be traced among the Southern Slav
    warriors fleeing from the Ottoman Empire, but also the Southern Slav or Vlach population
    that served in the royal army of the Southern Banat regions might have belonged to them."


    https://www.academia.edu/4141874/FRO...IAEVAL_HUNGARY




    "The Vlachs were particularly suitable for the Ottoman government's purposes,
    not only because they were mobile (their typical occupations were shepherding,
    horse-breeding and organizing transport for traders), but also because they
    had a strong military tradition".




    Other Byzantine writers refer to to the transhumance of the Vlachs,
    and medieval Serbian documents refer to them as shepherds and kjelatori --
    a version of the Latin calator, "packhorse-leader", surviving in modern Vlach
    as calator, "traveller". Their only other distinctive occupation at that period
    was fighting: as hardy mountain-dwellers they were valued for their stamina,
    and their supply of horses made them useful adjuncts to any military campaign.
    The Byzantine authorities seem not to have trusted them very much, and generally
    used them as auxiliaries; sometimes they functioned as quite independent irregular troops




    Most of these early Dalmatian and Bosnian Vlachs seem to have led quiet, secluded lives in the mountains.But in Hercegovina itself, where there was a large concentration of Vlachs, a more military and aggressive tradition developed. There are many complaints in Ragusan records of raids by these neighboring Vlachs during the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. The Vlachs of Hercegovina were horse-breeders and caravan-leaders who,
    when they were not engaged in plunder, grew rich out of the trade between Ragusa and mines of Bosnia; some ofthem were probably responsible for commissioning the imposing Bosnian stone tombstones or stecci decorated with carvings of horsemen. Their trading links to the east must have brought them more into contact with the Vlach peoples
    of Serbia and Bulgaria, who had long traditions of military activity in the armies of the Byzantine emperors and Serbian kings."

    http://www.farsarotul.org/nl16_1.htm


    https://books.google.ro/books?id=3or...obbers&f=false






    The Vlach riding tradition has surely an earlier origin than the Byzantine era,since turma exclusively referred to cavalry
    only in the Imperial Age.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turma

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/turm%C4%83

    Edit:

    And alot of Latin words have been preserved in this respect.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cal

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/buiestru

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/capistrum

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sella

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/admissarius

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/roib

    Regarding buiestru,the first of the proposed etimologies seems the closest,since the suffix is Latin-derived,as in maiestru or capastru,
    not to mention the obvious semantic origin- the fetter.

    Edit2:

    https://books.google.ro/books?id=2Wc...rsemen&f=false
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 16-03-16 at 23:34.

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    "Between Kastoria and Prespa in the year 976 an incident occurred, resulting in the death of the brother of the Bulgarian or Macedonian emperor Samuel at the hands of Vlach highwaymen.
    This is the first mention of the Vlachs in history."

    http://www.farsarotul.org/nl30_2.htm

    https://books.google.ro/books?id=-71...waymen&f=false


    "The four brothers David, Moses, Aron and Samuel of the Cometopuli dynasty ruled in the free territories and in 976 launched a major offensive against the Byzantines to regain the lost lands"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzant...st_of_Bulgaria




    "The core of the army consisted of armoured Boyars and Bulgar horse archers supplemented by Vlach cavalry and Cuman horse archers. "


    http://www.balkanhistory.com/medieval.htm




    Regardless of their supposed habit,the Vlachs who killed David were military men,enlisted by the Byzantines to fight against the Bulgarians,while others did quite the opposite.


    They had a heavy military background as it is shown by these Latin words that had semantically developed in the military environment,selected from Cristian Mihail, "Modificari semantice...":

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/b%C4%83tr%C3%A2n

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lingula#Latin

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cumplit

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cumpli#Romanian

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/compleo#Latin

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/apleca

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/applico#Latin

    indupleca(to submit,to persuade),from in+duplicare

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/duplico

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C3%AEndupleca#Romanian

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sarcina

    It also means "pregnancy" in Romanian:

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sarcin%C4%83#Romanian


    An alternative solution,without necessarily deviating from Mihail's conclusion.

    "Augustus's attempt to raise the birth-rate did not lack precedent in Roman
    history. Valerius Maximus teils the story that the censors Camillus and
    Postumius, as early as 403 B.C., had fined elderly bachelors for failing to marry
    and sire children (Va!. Max. 2.9.1) and Metellus Macedonicus, censor in 131 B.C.,
    made a speech urging men to marry and procreate, which was read out to the
    Senate by Augustus in support of his own legislation (Suet. Aug. 89.2). However
    it seems unlikely that Augustus's attempts to solve the problem were very successfu!.
    Tacitus states explicitly that they were not (Tac. Ann. 3.25) and in view of the
    fact that the Augustan legislation was reinforced by Domitian and re-enacted in thesecond and third centuries A.D. it seems that the low birth-rate continued. Jones
    disagrees with this view and argues that there was a slow but appreciable increase
    in the birth-rate following Augustus's legislation.
    Nevertheless there is considerable evidence for the existence of
    marriages which produced no children at all or only one child, as &lsdon shows
    a.p.V.D. Balsdon, Roman Women [London 1962] pp. 194ff.)."

    http://www.rhm.uni-koeln.de/128/Devine.pdf

    EDIT:

    A consequence of a multitask legion?(Romanian copil=child,Albanian kopil=bastard)


    https://powerimagepropaganda.files.w...illon-2006.pdf



    Or just Thracians?(The child as a burden)

    "they sell their children and let their maidens commerce with whatever men they please"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians

    https://books.google.ro/books?id=5xt...20born&f=false


    sarcinam effundit, i. e. brings forth, Ph

    http://latinlexicon.org/definition.php?p1=1014627
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 19-03-16 at 22:35.

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    The Vlachs from historical Poland,Ukraine and Russia




    from "The Annals of UVAN,vol.IV-V,1955"


    "During the Great Northern War (1700-1721) a considerable
    number of Moldavians served in the Russian army"(pg.40)


    "The Hungarian and Moldavian regiments, formed from these recruits, were stationed
    in the Ukraine"(pg.40)




    "In October 1751, Khorvat brought the first party of settlers to
    Kiev, which at that time was the gathering and distributing point
    for all foreign immigrants; it numbered only 208 people, including
    women and children. Khorvat proceeded to St. Petersburg,
    wThere he submitted a more detailed plan of colonization. This
    time, he proposed to settle sixteen thousand people instead of
    the original figure of three thousand, to be divided into four
    regiments, two Hussar and two Pandur infantry, each of four
    thousand people. In addition to the Serbs, Khorvat intended to
    recruit Macedonians, Moldavians and persons of other nationalities."(pg.44)


    "By orders of Ševic and Preradovic,
    up to one hundred Moldavian and Walachian families were
    settled in winter quarters and farmsteads of the Ukrainian villages
    of Nyzhnye on the Sivers’kyi Donets in 1754, where they
    founded Nyzhnya settlements."pg.72


    "When in 1763 the Senate authorized Khorvat to admit
    Bulgarian and Moldavian settlers living in Poland, it enjoined
    both him and Glebov to watch that no Poles moved in with these
    colonists"pg.80


    It appears from the proposal submitted by Khorvat to the
    government as well as from the charter granted to him on January
    11, 1752 that the immigrants to Russia were to be of “Serbian,
    Macedonian, Bulgarian and Moldavian nationality” and Orthodox
    faith(pg.102)




    The planned exodus of the Moldavians alarmed the Porte. In
    1753, the pasha of Bendery approached the Polish authority and
    demanded that the Moldavians heading for Nova Serbiya through
    Poland be stopped and returned to Bendery. Tatar posts were
    set up along the border to intercept the emigrants. Vasyl Movchan,
    who reported to the Russian government on the situation
    in Bendery, wrote to the Vice-Governor of Kiev, Kostyuryn,
    that “everybody has rebelled” in Moldavia and “they all are
    fleeing there [i. e., to Nova Serbiya].”328 It must be added, however,
    that the practical value of this undertaking was slight,
    since only a few Moldavians and Vlakhs settled in Nova Serbiya
    this time.(pg.104)




    "At a later date a fourth regiment, the Moldavian Hussar,
    was settled in the Yelizavetgrad district(pg.188)


    "In the Catherine district the land was divided among various
    regiments. At first, it was decided in 1764 to form one
    Hussar regiment out of the two formerly commanded by Ševic
    and Preradovic, to add three Lancer regiments to it, and to
    move the Moldavian Hussar regiment from Kiev"(pg.188)




    By 1765, the activity of the special recruiting agents had
    become energetic. Colonel Filipových, assisted by a certain
    Myrolyub, Major Bashkovych, Lieutenants Roste, Stefanov,
    Chechuliy, Ratmet, Nikolayev, Fedorov and others were sent
    abroad in that year. They recruited Moldavians and Vlakhs,
    Bulgarians, Greeks, Prussians, and “the Emperor’s subjects”
    (inhabitants of the Austrian Empire)All new colonistst
    were first settled in Kiev’s Podol. From there, they were
    distributed among the various provinces, including New Russia.(pg.250-251)






    "Many Vlakhs and Moldavians arrived in the New Russia
    province between 1760 and 1770. Jassy and Focsani lost a
    large percentage of their population by 1765 and the whole
    monastery of Buzuluk moved to New Russia. The movement
    of Vlakhs and Moldavians increased during the Turkish War,
    since Moldavians serving in the Turkish army were eager to desert
    and settle in New Russia. For instance, a large Moldavian
    and Walachian unit commanded by Skarzhyns’ki moved to
    New Russia and was allotted lands along the Southern Bug,
    forming the nucleus of the Bug regiment.101
    Colonel Vasili Lupul-Zverev, an officer of the Russian army,
    was particularly active in persuading Moldavians to migrate
    to the New Russia province. Acting in the name of the Russian
    government, he dispatched a number of manifestoes in
    1769, stating that Catherine II had appointed him “to receive
    and escort people of his nationality into i:he Nova Serbiya
    land.” Lupul-Zverev advised all Moldavians to leave the Tu rk ish
    army and become subjects of the “Orthodox Empress.”
    Later, Lupul-Zverev claimed to have recruited over 30,000
    Moldavians between 1769 and 1771
    These immigrants were
    organized into a Moldavian regiment
    "(pg.253)


    In all, Lupul-
    Zverev settled over 15,000 people."(pg.254)




    "Güldenstädt remarks that Moldavians and Vlakhs were RAPIDLY
    ASSIMILATED among the Ukrainian population and differed
    little from the Ukrainians in customs and dress"(pg.254)
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 19-03-16 at 11:46.

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    "Further extensive colonization took place in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, the Polish princes of Podolia encouraging the creation of large farms by Moldavian boyars;and in the eighteenth century, Russian generals took back with them from their campaigns against the Turks, enormous numbers of Roumanian peasants. In 1739, Gen. Munnich carried back with him 100,000 Roumanian peasants, according to the memoirs of Trenck, his companion; and_ in 1792, another great immigration took place. As a result, it is reckoned that there are probably half a million Roumanian peasants in Russia east of the Dniester."






    https://depts.washington.edu/cartah/...rk/bc_29.shtml


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolokhoveni

    https://books.google.ro/books?id=WDR...alicia&f=false



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magura_National_Park


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podhale-Magura_Area

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magura_Cave

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/m%C4%83gur%C4%83




    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...682/figure/F2/


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3131682/






    http://www.academia.edu/4388454/Kumans_and_Vlachs

    about the "tower"(=fortress):

    https://books.google.ro/books?id=LvV...rtress&f=false


    https://books.google.ro/books?id=tMj...antine&f=false

    "Since the Vlachs were faithfully fulfilling castle service, they were given
    istimâlet, and their harâc was settled at the amount of 80 akçes like the filuri tax.87
    In some instances, istimâlet included confessional concessions as well, such as a
    right to possess churches, and the like. According to a report of Evliya Çelebi
    in the mid-17th century, a regiment of the Vlachs numbering 1.000, was engaged
    in the repair of the Buda’s castle, in addition to tax reductions, i.e., exemption
    of the tekâlif-i örfiye tax, possessed three “Vlach churches” (üç aded kenîse-i
    Eflakân) in Buda."("Being An Ottoman Vlach")


    about the "tower" and the fitting into the Roman military-lowland(swampland) pattern(which was very closed to the highland one,especially along the Danube, Sava and Morava,because the Slavs had used the Roman roads and the Balkan valleys in their expansion):

    http://www.staraplanina.eu/Balkan-mountains--map.htm

    https://books.google.ro/books?id=qTL...slavia&f=false




    "[The Vlachs] never kept their word to anyone, not even to the ancient Roman Emperors. Having been attacked in war by Emperor Trajan and having been defeated totally, they were subdued and their King, named Decebal, was killed and his head was put on a pike and brought to the city of the Romans. These [Vlachs] are, in fact, the so-called Dacians, also called Bessians [Bessoi]. Earlier they lived in the vicinity of the Danube and Saos, a river which we now call Sava, where the Serbians live today, and [later] withdrew to their inaccessible fortifications. Relying upon these fortifications, they feigned friendship and submission to the ancient Roman Emperors and then swept down from their strongholds and plundered the Roman provinces. Therefore, the exasperated Romans crushed them. And these left the region: some of them were dispersed to Epirus and Macedonia, and a large number established themselves in Hellas"

    http://www.promacedonia.org/en/ei/ei_1.htm


    "Dacians"(geographical)=the northern/north-western frontier of Diocese of Dacia,the Danube and Sava

    "Bessi"(geographical)=the Upper Morava valley,western Bulgaria and the eastern part of Republic of Macedonia

    The Romans and the Ancient Roman Emperors=The Byzantines,Romaioi

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:I...a_-_AD_400.png

    "Finally, according to Ce-caumenos, the Vlachs are descendants of the Daciansand Bessi, thus geographically localizing the Bessi
    to the territory where the Vlachs settled later, which isalmost identical to the territory with cemeteries withrectangular vessels finds"

    http://www.academia.edu/1305850/Rect...ing_the_Roman_





    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 20-03-16 at 10:04.

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    Kekaumenos had in mind Simeon's Bulgaria,when the Empire had expanded to Greece(and Epirus),with almost the same western boundaries(south of the Danube) as Diocese of Dacia.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...orBozhinov.png

    For him, the Vlachs were "Dacians" not only geographically,but also militarily ,holding mountain fortresses and attacking the "Romans"

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    Country: Greece



    The Vlachs were nomads of Dacian origin according to Kekaumenos as you say. So the theory that they were latinized Greeks is wrong. This theory became popular in Greece since most of the Vlachs of Greece adopted a Greek (Hellenic) national identity. Τhe greek text says that before they lived "near (πλησίον) Danube and Sava". What do you think about the reference "where the Serbians live today"?

    I 've read that Romanian, Albanian and Bulgrarian have one similarity. They have "definite articles" as suffixes. I've also read about an hypothesis that Albanian comes from "Daco-mysian" and that it has more similarities with Eastern Balkan Romance languages than with the extinct Dalmatian. So, that might say something about the origins of Albanian language.

    The Greeks of Greece were calling themselves "Romii" (=Romans) and they were calling the Aromanians "Vlachs". Whereas the Aromanians were calling themselves "Armun" and the Greeks "Grek".
    Last edited by A. Papadimitriou; 21-03-16 at 21:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    The Vlachs were nomads of Dacian origin according to Kekaumenos as you say. So the theory that they were latinized Greeks is wrong. This theory became popular in Greece since most of the Vlachs of Greece adopted a Greek (Hellenic) national identity. Τhe greek text says that before they lived "near (πλησίον) Danube and Sava". What do you think about the reference "where the Serbians live today"?

    I 've read that Romanian, Albanian and Bulgrarian have one similarity. They have "definite articles" as suffixes. I've also read about an hypothesis that Albanian comes from "Daco-mysian" and that it has more similarities with Eastern Balkan Romance languages than with the extinct Dalmatian. So, that might say something about the origins of Albanian language.

    The Greeks of Greece were calling themselves "Romii" (=Romans) and they were calling the Aromanians "Vlachs". Whereas the "Aromanians" were calling themselves "Armun" and the Greeks "Grek".

    Vlachs is general term for all Latin Speaking populations of Balkans,
    there are many Theories, Like
    Vilachs, from Latin Villas
    Wallachs from Wallachia
    Generally are considered :
    1) ex-Roman Legeoners like the Pharsallos Vlachs Thessaly who come from Roman Legions retired and Desband to create 4rth Macedonica Legion (Vespacian)
    2) Illyrian tribes, Illyrian spoke Celtic languages and not Albanian, specially around West and North parts of Makedonia Nova Epirus, and FYROM.
    3) Cingueari from Legion V cantral and east Makedonia Fyrom and Bulgaria,
    4) Local balcanic population that work or lived at Roman Villas so mixed with Roman/Latin speakers
    5) Local Balkanic populations that were latinised by Flavians, Flavians ruled Blakns and Con/polis for centuries, and officially state language was Roman/Latin
    Flavians wrote CODEXes and not Kanones-Nomoi (Κανονες-Nομοι)
    6) Few remants from Crusades spoted in few certain places

    Vlachs in some areas means peasant (villager)
    Their inner names are from language they use. like Aromani, Armanesti
    there are group of Vlachs that have no connection among each other, and certify the difference among the tribes

    Romania was latinised due to heavy Roman legions occupation, and goverment and education
    Romania was Getto-Thracian speaking, and also has quite significant Slavic population, although speaks Latin

    Even among MoschoVlachs, KoutsoVlachs MegleVlachs MoesioVlachs etc (big Aromanian tribes) etc lingusitic differences exist due to the origin of population
    searching the village they come from you will see either a Historical legion disband, either a long time military camp, either elite Roman rulers fields and villages or cities (Λατιφουντια)


    PS
    the origin of termination Vlach or βλαχος is still not certified
    possibly origins
    1) well considering that are connected with Latin language many believe that is connected with Latin word for small self-suficient foundations call Villas
    2) the connectivity of Armanesti with Romanian gave some the idea that has to do with Wallachia, area where Herodotus puts Keltos to Live
    3) searching older IE tribes connectivity we see that Galates spoke Belgae, Galates were Gauls, but that G with B and W have a coonection,
    Walles Walloons Wallachs are all conected Galates Keltes, probably has to do with a word for speak, yell, and possibly meant tongue/language
    compare yell Wall Gaul Kel and Γλωσσα
    4) it is certified that at Thessaly area at Pharsallos Roman Vespasian gave lands to disbanded Legions, Pharsallos is the same word with Versailles (compare Verenika-Pherenike)

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    Romanian "mare"(big,large,great,important;referring to objects and people as well) is a Latin-derived word(the morphology obviously points to this;similar to "tare" and others),developed in Thracian circumstances and backuped by the Germanic presence.


    The semantic difference seems pretty big , since this word comes from Latin "mas/maris"(a male),but it must be considered the Pre-Roman way of thinking/life,where we have the following equation,


    "big men= important/great men",and Pyrmerulas is not an exception from this rule,it's about the "Big Maize" as a demanded good harvest,as well as the"Great Maize",the divine messenger that ensures it.




    "The epithet Pyrumerulas (variants: Pyrmerulas, Pyrymerylas, Pirmerulas), which occurs as an epithet of the Thracian deity of Heros,
    is obviously a two-component word. The first component is linked to the Greek pyrós ‘maize, corn’ from the IE *puro-,
    compare also to the Lith. purai ‘winter maize’, the Latv. puri ‘maize’, the Church Slavonic peiro ‘spelt’, etc.;
    the second component is an extension of the stem of the IE verb *mer- ‘big, great’ in Slavic personal names, ending in -mer (Vladimer),
    the Old-HighGerman -mar in names suc as Volk-mar, Hlodo-mar, the Gal. -maros in names as Nerto-maros ‘great-in-strength’, the Old-Icel. mar ‘big’."


    http://groznijat.tripod.com/thrac/thrac_4d.html


    "mer- ‘large, great’ [Church Slavic personal name Vladi-mer, Old-HighGerman Volk-mar, Hlodo-mar, Old-Icel. mar ‘big’]."

    http://groznijat.tripod.com/thrac/thrac_5.html




    "But the strongholds which now stand beyond Pontes he himself built new;
    these are named p275Mareburgou and Susiana, Harmata and Timena, and Theodoropolis, Stiliburgou and Halicaniburgou."


    "Nor did he neglect the fort named Burgualtu, which previously was desolate and wholly without inhabitants,
    but also surrounded with a new circuit-wall another place which they call Gombes."

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...dings/4B*.html


    Mareburgu=Big Fortress


    Burgualtu=High Fortress


    The source of Aromanian"mare/mari" might've been Kekaumenos' "Dacians".


    This word is absent in Albanian,a language that has many Latin loans of Romanian type.



    English meaning: big, important
    Deutsche Ubersetzung: “gros, ansehnlich”
    Material: Positiv me-ro-s, mo-ro-s: Gk. -miros “big, large (?) in
    Speerwerfen” under likewise, O.Ir. mor (das o from dem comparative), mar “big, large”,
    Welsh mawr “big, large”, Bret. meur ds., Gaul. -maros in Eigennamen as Nerto-maros (“big,
    large in power “); with e O.H.G. -mar in names as Volk-mar etc., further das denominative
    Gmc. *merjan “*as gros darstellen, vaunt “, from which “kunden”: Goth. merjan, O.S.
    marian, O.H.G. maren, O.N. maera “ announce, declare “, wherefore Ger. Mar, Marchen
    under likewise, as well as das post-verbal adj. O.H.G. O.S. mari “illustrious, gleaming”, O.E.
    maere, O.N. maerr ds., Goth. waila-mereis “from gutem shout, call”;
    Slav. -meri in names as Vladi-meri(Pokorny)


    EDIT:




    The Celts were no longer present in the area after the campaigns of Burebista.


    Regardless of the adoption of "burg" by the Romans and Byzantines,Stilliburgou and Halicaniburgou are obviously Germanic.


    " In the older literature it was often thought that the Iron Gate region was inhabited predominantly by the Scordisci. According to the Roman historian Appian, after their defeat in 84 BC, the surviving groups of the Scordisci withdrew to the south bank of the river and to some islands in the stream. New excavations, however, suggest that the Scordisci left behind few traces in these places and most likely settled much farther to the west in the modern region of Srem. The Iron Gate, in general terms, was the territory of the Dacians and the Getae, tribes that were united about the middle of the first century BC under the leadership of Burebista into a cohesive and strong confederation, which was a clear forerunner of the Dacian state whose strength the Romans were to experience to their disadvantage in the first century AD"

    http://danube-cooperation.com/danubius/2012/06/12/roman-limes-frontier-line-of-the-roman-empire-in-the-iron-gate-area/
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 05-04-16 at 18:36.

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    The Aromuns,like all Vlachs and Romanians,had lived in "Bulgaria",Aromanian has Slavo-Bulgarian loans,plus the composite word "untulemnu"(oil),Romanian "untdelemn",literally "butter-of-wood", who is just a translation of the Bulgarian "darveno maslo".


    The Aromuns(or at least their "Bessi" part) surely knew of Thessaloniki,preserving it in the form of Saruna(the rhotacization of Salona),they have also exclusively kept some southern-type vocabulary,hic(latin ficus),caroari(heat;latin calorem).
    After the Slavic invasion/settlement the Latin speakers had withdrawn into the highlands forming scattered groups that had kept strong ties between each other through transhumance/pastoralism.
    Kekaumenos view of Vlach's ancestors corresponds with this:they were "Dacians" and "Bessi", two geographically-separated communities.


    The "Bessi"'s origin was diverse:from the citymen or farmers of Roman,Thracian and Thraco-Dardano-(and Macedonian?) origin ,who lived in towns like Scupi(Skopje), Naissus(Nis) and along the Upper Vardar or the Southern Morava valleys,
    to the highland herdsmen of real Bessian stock,that had been Christianized by Nicetas of Remesiana .


    The (southern part) of the "Dacians" dwelled along the Danube,especially in the lands situated east of Morava river,in eastern Serbia and north-western Bulgaria.They were of legionary tradition,the genetic base would have been the Roman soldiers detached along the Danube limes and,somehow coincidentally, the autochthonous Thraco-Dacians.




    "Dacian" toponyms:


    Latin-derived toponymy from the above-mentioned area:Timok(Timacus),Florentin(Florentiana),Archar( Ratiaria),Motru(Amutriam,Amutria),Ogosta(Augusta), Vidin-Budin(Bonomia),Cibrica(Cebrus).


    Toponymy inherited from the Roman Age:Osam(Asamus),Vit(Utus),Lom(Almus),Iantra(Iatru s),Iskar(Oescus)


    In the case of Motru,Archar and Ogosta,the terms initially designated settlements,which had been later abandoned by their inhabitants,but they didn't left the areas,passing them to the nearby rivers.


    "Florentin BUL (Florentiana): possible fort (B-L, 227; Iv, 481; GMs, 28a)."




    There are clear phonetical discrepancies between certain Latin elements of Romanian,Aromanian and Albanian,suggesting pre-Slavic differentiation,even if the Albanians had also received Latin influence of Romanian type before the arrival of the Slavs.


    However,all the Vlachs dialects plus Romanian share a considerable higher number of innovations within Latin,than,let's say the entire Italian dialects.






    "(d) The kw => p change in front of all vowels except a (a phenomenon of delabialization) in Vulgar Latin is seen in inscriptions and mentioned by grammars:
    conda instead of quondam; coquens non cocens, etc. In front of a this phenomenon occurred in Sardinian and in East Latin only in the following words:


    This phenomenon is not found in Albanian: Latin quattuor => Alb. katre, quadragesima => kreshme."


    "Latin cl corresponds to Northern Rumanian ch: Lat. clavis => N.Rum. cheie.
    Istrorumanian and Arumanian have the intermediary consonant group kl:
    e.g., Arumanian klem. According to Densusianu,
    this seems to have been the case in Balkan Romance when it was separated from Italian.
    Italian has chiave, French cle."(Eastern Romance-Orbis Latinus)



    "The disappearance of the
    Late Roman and Early Byzantine urban centres in Dalmatia and Illyricum
    was not related only to the arrival of the Slavs, but rather it was a process
    that had already been taking place for at least 50 years (approximately),
    since ca. 548 when the Slavs had made their first major incursion south of
    the Danube River.21 Therefore, the economic decline of the cities in
    Illyricum and Dalmatia was among the main reasons why these cities were
    doomed to disappear.22 The last onslaught of invaders, which took place
    during the first years of Heraclius’ reign, just dealt the final, fatal blow; it
    was the closing act of a long, ongoing process. However, the rural population
    did not entirely disappear.
    To the contrary, the Romanized population survived the arrival of the Slavs,
    and in a far greater number than was previously
    thought.23 It was merely a shift of political power which marked
    the profound changes in the former Praefectura Illyricum – from the
    Romans/Byzantines to the Slavs.
    "




    "The cities of the Praefectura Illyricum had been in the state of constant
    decline since the mid-fifth century; see: P. Lemerle, Invasions et migrations
    dans les Balkans depuis la fin de l’epoque romain jusqu’au VIII siècle, Revue
    historique 211 (1954) 281; Zivkovic, Juzni Sloveni, 55-56. However, during
    the rule of Justinian I (527 – 565), a number of fortresses and towns in what
    is today modern Serbia were either rebuilt or constructed (after 540); Cf.
    Procopii De aedif. IV, 4, 116.6-117.10; 122.15-129.4. "


    "The population density in Dalmatia or the Praefectura Illyricum
    was not equally distributed. Neither had the Roman population lived in all
    of its different regions in equal numbers, nor did the Slavs settle in vast
    numbers all the areas exposed to their arrival.
    It can be assumed that the
    survival of a long-standing name of some particular Roman settlement is a
    proof that Roman population did persist in the area;79 on the other hand if
    the name of the settlement became Slavic, the indigenous population must
    have fled from the particular area"


    "It is also evident that many terms related to the Christian rites in Serbian
    (as well as in Croatian) derive from Latin:
    oleum – ulje, acetum – ocat, arca – raka, paganus – paganin, altare – oltar,
    sanctus – sveti, vinum – vino, crux – krst, calendae – koleda, compater –
    kum, panis – panja.81 This terminology is the definite proof that there was
    contact between the Slavs/Serbs and the indigenous population with their
    Latin Christian rites in the Early Middle Ages;
    this also proves the existence
    of an earlier ecclesiastical organization (which was established in the
    ninth century, if not before)"


    "This would mean that the Slavs settled in the
    cities or fortified places along the main Roman roads, taking control of the
    most fertile and arable land."


    "On the linguistic side of the matter, terms related to agriculture, which
    were borrowed from the Slavs, make regular appearance in Hungarian,
    Romanian, Albanian, and even Greek languages, while the Slavs adopted
    the terminology for animal husbandry and products related to it from the
    indigenous population."


    "The Slavs (Croats, Serbs, and others) settled in the areas around the
    main routes and in the most fertile areas of Dalmatia and Praefectura
    Illyricum, by using the network of ancient Roman communications"





    "The Fortifications of the Late Antiquity and Early Byzantine Period"(Serbia)


    "The social crisis that struck the Roman Empire caused striking
    pauperization of the population, while the continuous flood of settlers,
    various peoples and looters made the difficult situation even worse. These
    groups benefited from the proximity of the frontier and the well-branched
    road network to reach their loot in the flatland settlements and towns. The
    Hunnic wrath caused destrucion of some important towns, such as Singidunum,


    Viminatium, Margum and Naissus. It took plenty of time for these towns
    to recover. The horrible times were exacerbated by the natural disasters
    that befell certain parts of the Empire. The catastrophic earthquake struck
    Dardania in 518,548 followed by a plague epidemic that decimated the
    population and weakened the defences of the Empire.549
    Insecure times called for construction of fortifications. Some of
    these fortified sites were regional centres with military crews and a still
    functioning ecclesiastical organization. Besides these, the imperial
    authorities strived to build smaller fortifications on important strategic
    points along the roads, so as to defend and oversee the communication and
    supply systems. These fortified sites also served as refuge centres that
    provided safe haven to the populations fleeing the endangered lowland
    settlements. Parallel to the construction of these fortifications, smaller
    ones were built by rural communities, to provide them with safer
    positions. Although their positions changed by moving into locations on
    higher altitudes, they carried on with their economic activities on earlier
    agricultural fields with a shift towards pastoralism.




    These measures created a new defensive system, born out of
    necessity and reflecting how weak the Empire had become. The aim was
    to reduce the influx of refugees that sought shelters in the south, since the
    refuges were built in every part of the Empire; but also put to a heavy test
    the barbarians’ ability to lay siege and to maintain their supply chain; in
    addition, the barbarians were rather unaccomplished besiegers of
    fortifications, which by then had no riches left to loot. In any event, the
    smaller hordes roaming the roads of the Empire did not even pose a threat
    to the villagers any longer, unless they carried out sudden attacks. But the
    remains of fire on some fortifications, together with numismatic material
    and relevant archaeological horizons of hoards confirm that settlements
    were played havoc with, and speak of volatile times.550 This concept,
    adapted for the precarious sixth century, reached its culmination during
    the reign of Justinian, as was corroborated by the writings of Procopius,
    but also by the plentiful material finds from throughout the Empire."
    (from Tibor Zivkovic,"The World of the Slavs")






    It is possible that Kekaumenos' sources of inspiration were the authors of confusion;these sources could've referred to
    events that happened during the rule of Simeon of Bulgaria,when Serbia and some parts of Greece(where the Vlachs live today) were included in Bulgaria.
    If this thing didn't happened,he could've misinterpreted them.
    And,of course,there's a third option,where everybody(or more than one) is guilty,distorting things,but we can only legitimize it by referring to Simeon I.



    Alternatively,Kekaumenos mentions the north-eastern end of Serbia( the parts "along the Danube and Sava"), not Zeta,he or his sources knew something about
    a far-northern Vlach homeland,these were the "Dacians", harder to be localized because they lived beyond "Bessi".



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Serbian_Kingdom_under_King_Constantine_Bodin-sr.svg


    EDIT:

    Apologies for the chaotic text,this is not intentional.

    EDIT2:

    clarification:"ch" corresponds to ALL the Romanian dialects

    EDIT3:


    Kekaumenos' text contains some errors,one of them surely big,but it's definitely not a reason to absolutize the conclusions ,
    the "Bessi"'s location matches almost perfectly the archaeological reality,the fragmentation of this group("Dacians"-"Bessi")
    was also recorded,the Danube remains a logical location,but it was not among Serbs.
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 09-04-16 at 13:40.

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    Vespasian disband legio IV at the same area, where before Romans defeated Makedonians,
    Κυνος Κεφαλαι, and establish a town named ceasariana there.

    what connection has that area with Bulgaria or Romania?

    Aromani populations have many origins, not one,
    and many dialects, not one,
    plz name which tribe of Aromani has his origin in Bulgaria?

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    The Greek language had a heavy influence in the Balkans even during the Roman Empire;
    therefore, the pillars Latinity must have been the forts and towns located along the Danube,where there was
    an intensive and prolonged Roman activity.The second Balkanic core would have been also of strategic importance,
    the Danube-Morava corridor,that could have been for the barbarians the easiest way to reach Greece and Asia Minor,
    Athens or Constantinople.
    According to the distribution of the inscriptions,the southermost area of Latin influence was the Upper Vardar valley(Scupi and Stobi).




    These river valleys would have had,the most likely,much higher populations than the entire provinces where Latin was also used,for instance
    the mountainous Dardania and Praevalitana(it is hard to believe that in these regions
    the Latin-speakers were the majority).


    The Albanians probably lived in the highlands of Dardania,but they were very involved in the above-mentioned areas,both
    militarily and economically,enlisted as auxiliary troops or searching for a good bargain.


    Map07.gif

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B...th_century.svg


    It was about the medieval Bulgarian state,the Bulgarian Empire.


    EDIT:

    If the Albanians had orbited along these mechanisms,the autochthonous populations of the Danube,Morava and Vardar valleys
    were INTEGRATED in it(thus, forming the Rumanii and Armanii),it is very wrong to call this process "acculturation",because
    this isn't about the innocent and spontaneous frenzy caused by a happy polka.
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 09-04-16 at 15:59. Reason: polka creates sometimes too much happy energy

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    The great majority of the Romanian samples(both Y-DNA and mt-DNA) were taken from the cities(Constanta,Ploiesti,Piatra-Neamt, and Bucharest,the big sample).The only study that mentions counties is Martinez-Cruz 2012,but it doesn't necessarily mean that they
    have used(only) villagers.

    Most of mt-DNA comes from Bucharest("Genomul Uman").


    This does not correspond to the demographical reality,the majority of the Romanians live in villages,not to mention that many countries had mostly sampled from the
    rural environment(using the term "region").


    I'm not saying we're Scandinavians(in the cities),but really,this is too much.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_...an_populations


    Despite the "myth",even the southeastern and eastern Romania has at least the same quantity of(quite depigmentated) Dinaric strain as the Slavic one,caused by both early ( Proto-Romanians) and
    more or less recent events (involving transhumance).


    The Nordic("Germanic") element(or most of it?) is probably not autochthonous("Goths") in the outer Carpathian Romanian populations(Wallachia and Moldova),it was spread through transhumance by the southern Transylvanian shepherds(Mocanii) coming from the "Saxon"
    region located between Sibiu and Brasov. The "Saxons" were German-speaking communities with diverse background:many or most of them(despite the name ) had come from SW Germany,plus the Flemish and Wallon areas.
    Of course,this element remains of secondary importance.

    http://www.dgt.uns.ac.rs/pannonica/p...ume_13_4_3.pdf

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    @ mihaitzero,

    the headquarters of Roman Legion was today NIS, Serbia,
    why? cause it is the center and the crossroad of 2 heavy traffic roads,
    Egnatia Road, and the aquatic road Thessaloniki-Belingrad, via rivers from Aegean to Istros

    but At borders Thessaly-Makedonia a Legion has disband, and we see Latin Speaking villages nearby,
    also around old Makedonian capital we know Romans settle a quard, oh and we also see a core of few Latin speaking villages, there,
    Following Egnatia road West, we know it was protected by Roman legions, oh another 2-3 cores of Latin speaking tribes,

    Thessaloniki was East Rome, second city with power after Rome before Nova Roma, and east of the city we know Roman did not settle quards, but created villas to produce wine,
    oh a small core exists there also,

    etc etc

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