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Thread: Vlach haplogroups & deep ancestry?

  1. #201
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    Another word inherited from Latin is catun,Albanian katund,meaning highland dispersed village,opposed to a
    compact Romanian sat,Aromanian fsat,Albanian fshat,from Latin fossatum,located on the lowlands/flatlands.


    http://www.academia.edu/23527880/ANC...MOYEN-%C3%82GE

    Aromanian has preserved an additional term,equivalent with catun,falcare,from Latin falcaria(or is it from
    falcare,which in Italian means "curved"?these two words come from falx,a sickle,having the semantics centred
    in the Italian meaning-curved,having the shape of a sickle-because it represents a well-known Romance development,
    for example, Albanian felqine,Romanian/Balkanic Romance falca*,a jaw,this kind of shift also apprears in Sardinian);


    Similarly,French canton and Italian cantone originates in the Latin canto(corner),their Romance constructions
    must have been derived from cantonum,who is also the root of the Romanian and Albanian terms.
    Cantonum has suffered typical Romanian phonetical shifts to turn to catun.

    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=canton

    Latin o,Romanian u
    Latin bonus,Romanian bun



    Dissimilation with the loss of sound


    Latin fratre,Romanian frate
    Latin cantonum,Romanian catun



    *These semantic changes, from a domain to another**, were typically Latin/Romance developments,
    not to mention that the Romanian-Albanian shift is not isolated,as it was previously suggested,
    another example being Romanian spate(back),from Latin spatha(sword),who actually has a Romance
    correspondent,Latin spatula,French epaule(Marius Sala's list).
    The Albanian-Romanian/Balkanic Romance shifts don't represent the influence of the "substratum",
    but the independent developments in the spirit of Latin/Romance that took place in the so-called
    Eastern Latin.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/falc%C4%83

    **ceata(fog), (< lat. caecia(blindness),only in Romanian(it sounds pretty lyrical,thus,literary);
    the alternative is negura,Albanian njegull,from Latin nebula.


    dezmierda (< lat. *dismerdare,only in Romanian(and Balkan Latin)



    " This is also indicated by the changes of meaning of a number of Latin words, many of which are shared by
    Romanian and Albanian. There are, for example, N. Rom. padure, Alb. püli "forest," from Lat. palus
    (genitive paludis), Vulgar Lat. padule "marsh"; N. Rom. ses, Alb. shesh "lowland," from Lat. sessum (sedere "to sit").
    Other examples of changes of meaning shared by Romanian and Albanian are words of everyday use, such as N. Rom. cuvînt "word,
    " cuvînta "to say, to utter, to speak," Alb. kuvendoj "I discuss," from Lat. conventus "district court, session, agreement";
    N. Rom. cui "nail," Alb. kuj, with the same sense, from Lat. cuneus "wedge."(Elemer Illyes)






    "The two languages are also alike in their use of substantive
    constructions rather than the infinitive. It is particularly important that
    the meaning of some words of Latin origin underwent the same type
    of change in Rumanian as in Albanian:
    Lat. conventus "gathering, meeting"; Dr. cuvînt, Alb. kuvënd
    "speech"; -
    Lat. draco "dragon"; Dr. drac, Alb. dreq "devil"; -
    Lat. falx "sickle"; Dr. falcã, Alb. fëlqinë‚ "jaw" –
    Lat. horreo ´I shudder (with horror)´; Dr. urãsc, Alb. urrej "I
    hate"; -
    Lat. mergo "I sink"; Dr. merg "I go", Alb. mërgonj " I remove";
    Lat palus, paludem. (palude) "swamp"; Dr. pãdure, Alb. pyll
    forest
    Lat. sella "chair"; Dr. ºale "waist"; Alb, shalë‚ "thigh, leg". –
    190
    Lat. sessus "session"; Dr. ºes, Alb. shesh "plains"
    Lat. veteranus "veteran"; Dr. bãtrîn, Alb. vjetër "old"."(Origins of the Rumanians,Hungarian paper)




    P.S.


    I won't blame Angela for suggesting that we are some sort of Italianized Illyrian pirates,
    who used to let their sheeps on the Albanian riviera,it was her own way to bring us closer.

    EDIT:

    I have nothing against Albanians or Illyrians,but it is hard to believe that their semi-Romanization
    took place on a ship.
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 30-11-16 at 17:49.

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    Similarities between Romanian and Calabrian


    R. insura,C. nzurar,to marry(a woman).Latin inuxorare,uxor=wife
    R. amar,amarat,C. amaru,poveretto, the initial
    sense is bitter, from Latin amarus
    R. acatarii,with qualities,fine,C. accattari,to buy,buying
    R. arama,C. arama,Italian rame,copper,brass
    R aseara, C arzira,Italian ieri sera,yesterday evening
    R aseza,sede,C assettari,Italian sedere,to sit
    R unde,C aundi,Italian dove,where
    Latin l>>>>Romanian,Calabrian r
    Latin o>>>>Romanian,Calabrian u
    C barcunu,Italian balcone
    R caragata( read caragazza),C carcarazza,Italian gazza,magpie
    R cas,C casu,Italian formaggio,cheese
    R cireasa,C cerasa,Italian ciliegia,cherry
    Latin j, preserved in Calabrese and Wallachian
    C jocari,Wallachian juca(joc=play),Italian giocare,Moldavian giuca(gioc=play),to play
    C jovi,Wallachian joi,Italian giovedi,Thursday
    In the northern Romanian dialects(Transylvanian and Moldavian) j is replaced by other Latin sounds ,dz(written z in Italian) and g.


    R curea,C curia,I cintura,belt
    R marita,C maritari,Italian sposare, to marry
    R nana,C nanna,Italian nonna
    Latin b>>>>Calabrian,Moldavian,Aromanian g
    Romanian bine,Aromanian,Moldavian ghini,good
    Latin nebula,Italian nebbia,Calabrian nigghia,Albanian njegulle,Romanian negura
    R nepotei,C niputeji, Italian nepotini,nephews,diminutive form
    R nora,C nora,Italian nuora,daughter in law
    R orb,C orbu,Italian cecco,blind
    R ou,C ovu, Italian uovo,egg
    Transylvanian pacurar,C pecuraru,Aromanian picurar,pecurar,Italian pastore,shepherd
    Calabrese pedi,Italin piedi,feet
    Latin pedica,North Romanian pedica,Moldavian chedica,Calabrian pedicinu,Wallachian piedica,Italian piedica,shackle,fetter
    R piersica,C persicu,perzica,Italian pesca,peach
    R soarece, C surice,Italian topo,mouse
    R turn,turnu(tower),C turnu,Italian turno(turn,shift,sentry or guard duty)
    The use of the term <man> to denote the husband
    R om, C uominu,italian marito,husband
    Wallachian scufunda,Calabrian skuffundare,Transylvanian and Moldavian cufunda,to dive.


    R tamp,tampit,C ntumpa,Italian stupida
    R foc,Old Romanian focu,C focu,italian fuoco,fire
    R musca,C musca,Italian mosca,fly
    R luni,C luni,I lunedi,Monday
    R marti C marti,I martedi,Tuesday
    Wallachian miercuri,North Romanian mercuri,C mercuri,I mercoledi,Wednesday
    R vineri, C venneri,I venerdi,Friday
    R duminica,C dominica,I domenica,Sunday
    R muiere, C mugliera,muggjeri, I moglie
    R rusine,C russure, I vergogna,shame
    R soacra, C socra,I suocera, mother in law
    R ulm,ulmu,C ulmu,I olmo,elm
    R unu,C unu,Italian uno,one
    ???R zimbru(wisent), C zzimbaru(montone,shepherd.s deputy) ,zimbaru,maschio della capra
    The Romanian word seems to be formed from a Proto-Romanian Calabrian-like term, under the influence of the Slavic zonbru.
    Other phonetical traits
    Latin e >>>>>>Calabrian,Moldavian,Aromanian i
    Latin f >>>>>>Calabrian,Moldavian,Aromanian,Spanish,Portug uese h
    Latin p>>>>>> Calabrian,Moldavian,Aromanian c
    Conclusions
    The closest Italian dialects are the Southern ones,Pugliese and Calabrese,because they were in contact with the Romanian language through the route which connected Southern Italy ,through Naissus and Lissus,with the Danube.It is a strong evidence for the autonomy of the Romanian language,the links with the dialects from northern Italy can be explained by the ecclesiastical influence of Aquileia over the Prefectura Illyricum.*my conclusions


    http://pulcinella291.forumfree.it/?t=53540796http://pulcinella291.forumfree.it/?t=53540796The most direct route between the southern Adriatic and the central Balkans is thatfrom Lissus at the mouth of the Albanian Drin to Naissus in the Morava valley (RV.1-11).More than once it has been suggested that some of the early Roman expeditions into theBalkans may have followed this line, following the Drin valley to reach Kosovo and thelater mining district around Ulpianum and then the Toplica valley to Naissus. (Roman Danube Survey)


    The Roman itinerary road Lissus–Naissus–Ratiaria was, as is well-known, atransversal communication across the central Balkans connecting the Adriaticcoast and the Danube Basin. Taking into account the maritime routebetween the Italic port of Brundisium and Lissus, it was the shortest linkbetween the capital of the Empire and the Danubian limes. Namely, theAppian Way led from Rome to Brundisium, and thence ships sailed to theBalkan Peninsula, where an overland route from Lissus continued along theDrim valley and across the highlands of present-day Albania and Serbia(mostly Kosovo and Metohija) to the Niš Basin with the ancient city ofNaissus at its centre. From Naissus, the road ran along the Timok river valley,took a northeast turn across Kadibogaz, a pass on Stara Planina (northwesternpart of the Balkan Mountain range), and ended at Ratiaria, a Romancolony (present-day Archar on the Danube, Bulgaria). In the period ofthe Empire’s expansion and consolidation of the border on the Danube, theroad was predominantly used for military purposes, for the transportationof troops and supplies to the Danubian limes. With the onset of mining activitiesin Upper Moesia, this important road began to be used for exportingores and thus assumed economic, i.e. commercial, importance.

    http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/0...530839047P.pdf
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 10-05-17 at 20:41.

  4. #204
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    Romanian murg,the typical reddish dark-brown horse
    Romanian amurg,dusk
    Albanian murg, monk
    Calabrian murga,Italian morchia dell ollio


    Mùrga - mùrghi : Morchia dell’olio, > amùrca .
    Mùrga : Morchia dell’olio che nel frantoio viene incanalata(Antonio Pisano,Dizionario Dialettale Calabrese)

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/murg#Romanian

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/amurg


    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/amurca#Latin





    From Antonio Pisano"s Dizionario Dialettale Calabrese


    Romanian cusuta,Calabrian cusuta,Italian cucita,sewed
    R jurai,C jurai,I ho giurato,I swore
    R lotru,C latru,I ladro,thief
    R laptuca,C lattuca,I lattuga
    R loc,C locu,I luogo,place
    R spaima,C spagna,I mette paura,fear
    R tata,C tata, I padre,father
    R negru,C nigru,I nero,black
    R pruna,C pruna,I prugna,plum
    R spate,C spadhi,I spalla,back
    Wallachian,Megleno-Romanian muma(mother),C mauma,I mia madre
    R literary sora mea, R popular sor-mea,C sorma,I mia sorella
    R lit. sora ta,R popular sor-ta,C sortta,I tua sorella


    EDIT
    Latin c>>>>>>>>Romanian ,Calabrian g
    The Calabrian pronounciation of Calabria,Galabria
    Calabrian arangu,Italian arancia
    Latin stancus(tired),Romanian stang(left),the semantic shift is explained
    by the position of the heart
    Latin scabia,Romanian zgaiba,scratch

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/st%C3%A2ng
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 12-05-17 at 09:16.

  5. #205
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    Romanian ce faci?Puglian ce sta faci? Italian che fai?
    R. puță(read puzza),P pizza, I.cazzo
    R sunt,P sontu,I sono,am,are
    R cine sunteti,P chi sinti?,I chi sei?
    R cioara(crow),P ciola(magpie)
    The term "christian",meaning person,people
    R crestin,P cristianu,I persona
    R coaie,P cuiuni,I testicoli
    R culme,P culme,colmo,I monticello
    R cumatra,P cummmare,I madrina
    R curea, P curiscia, I cintura
    R cutit,P curtieddhu,I coltello
    R doi,P doi,I due
    R frate,P frate,I fratello
    R fier,P fierru,I ferro
    Aromanian furnu,P furnu,I forno
    R manz(colt),P manzaru(montone,ariete)
    R mâță(read mazza),P musscia,I gatto
    R insurat,P nzuratu,I sposato
    R ou,P ou,I uovo
    R rusine,P ruscina, I sporco,dirty,obscene
    R sarcina,P sarcina, I fascio
    R spinare,P spinnare,I spennare
    R nun,P nununne,I padrino



    http://pulcinella291.forumfree.it/?t=53634683




    Brinnisi(Puglian pronunciation),Brindisi(Italian pronunciation)
    Latin brandeum,Aromanian brana,Romanian brau(plural form brana),popular Romanian brana ,traditional belt
    Latin granum,Aromanian gran,Romanian grau(plural grane),Istro-Romanian grawu


    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/br%C3%A2u

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post
    *These semantic changes, from a domain to another**, were typically Latin/Romance developments, Lat. falx "sickle"; Dr. falcã, Alb. fëlqinë‚ "jaw" –Lat. sella "chair"; Dr. ºale "waist"; Alb, shalë‚ "thigh, leg". –190Lat. sessus "session"; Dr. ºes, Alb. shesh "plains"
    because there are some clear patterns.Sense changesbject>>>>>body part,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,a bstract>>>>geographical term,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,anothe r thing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,The terms for church,Romanian biserica,Old Romanian baseareca,basearica,Aromanian basearica,Megleno-Romanian baserica,came from the Latin form baseleca(Nelu Zugravu),these are all related to some Southern Italian terms.https://nap.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basel...Baselecara,the local name of Basilicata.http://pulcinella291.forumfree.it/?t=56180038EDIT esti o capra basinoasa,mititica si paroasa,cati un arici iubaret,cu lipici, da si fasnet http://ro.bab.la/dictionar/romana-en...3-despre-femei https://nap.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basel...a_Lucia_a_Mare
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 18-05-17 at 06:28.

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    It's fascinating that the original homeland of the Vlachs corresponds almost exactly to modern Albania. I take it that's just one theory and not generally accepted? If so it would leave me wondering about the origins of the people we now know as Albanians who call themselves shqiptarët. Perhaps the Vlachs and Albanians have an ancient connection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    It's fascinating that the original homeland of the Vlachs corresponds almost exactly to modern Albania. I take it that's just one theory and not generally accepted? If so it would leave me wondering about the origins of the people we now know as Albanians who call themselves shqiptarët. Perhaps the Vlachs and Albanians have an ancient connection.
    Have you heard of a province in southern Romania called Vlachia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    It's fascinating that the original homeland of the Vlachs corresponds almost exactly to modern Albania. I take it that's just one theory and not generally accepted? If so it would leave me wondering about the origins of the people we now know as Albanians who call themselves shqiptarët. Perhaps the Vlachs and Albanians have an ancient connection.
    What makes you think it makes more sense for Vlachs to originate in Albania instead of Vlachia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Have you heard of a province in southern Romania called Vlachia?
    Yes, I have. It's unclear as to how it got its name, though it is probably related to the Vlachs though if this is the case that would mean they probably migrated there. "Vlach" was what Slavs called the Romanian people.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    And Muslim Bosnians also call Serbs "Vlah", plural Vlasi. At least the region I'm from (Posavina) mostly the older generations call them that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apsurdistan View Post
    And Muslim Bosnians also call Serbs "Vlah", plural Vlasi. At least the region I'm from (Posavina) mostly the older generations call them that.
    Because they are Vlachs settlers, brought by Ottomans to protect the borders. But they were also used for the same purpose by the Austrian. This people later were serbianised from the Serb orthodox Church. In some Ottoman sources Lazar Hrebeljanović is called son of the vlach meanwhile serbs are called eflaks, i.e. Vlachs.
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    It's fascinating that the original homeland of the Vlachs corresponds almost exactly to modern Albania. I take it that's just one theory and not generally accepted? If so it would leave me wondering about the origins of the people we now know as Albanians who call themselves shqiptarët. Perhaps the Vlachs and Albanians have an ancient connection.
    It's one theory. But you have to know that there are different people, unrelated among them who are called Vlachs. For example the Vlachs of Croatia are not related with the Vlachs in South Balkan. The majority of Vlachs in South Balcan were and are to be found in Thessaly. This region once was called Greater Wlachia. The history of the Vlachs is complicated and it's a great enigma.
    Meanwhile the origin of the Albanians is from the territories where we live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    It's one theory. But you have to know that there are different people, unrelated among them who are called Vlachs. For example the Vlachs of Croatia are not related with the Vlachs in South Balkan. The majority of Vlachs in South Balcan were and are to be found in Thessaly. This region once was called Greater Wlachia. The history of the Vlachs is complicated and it's a great enigma.
    Meanwhile the origin of the Albanians is from the territories where we live.
    As I understand it the small Romance-speaking groups of the Balkans of a tribal nature (so not the Adriatic islanders who spoke that old Dalmatian Romance) were referred to as "Vlachs", suggesting something of a common origin for some of them. This is of course complicated by the fact that some South Slavs refer to each other by the name as well.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Marriages controlled by the couple"s families were something common until recently,surely not only for the South Italian, Romanian/Aromanian and Bulgarian people.However,we see this obsession of the South Italian and Romanian/Aromanian people to preserve or more often,to try to raise their social status,this competition starts identically in both cases,when the dowry starts to be prepared soon after the child is born,being defended like the richest stronghold,the Romanian youngster will always marry the richer girl,surely not his lover, and the rural novel Ion has full coverage here.My grandfather from Baragan has done the same and he and his mates had a saying for this:'De la mine a treia casaMa insurai si luai nevastaO luai cu patru boiS-o turma mare de oiBoii tragOile imi placDar cu toanta ce-am sa fac?'"From my place to the third houseI got married and got a spouseI took her with 4 bullsAnd a large flockThe bulls pullThe sheeps I like the mostBut the silly girlI haven,t yet lost"Another common thing for both the Romanians and the Aromanians is this temptation,urge,to break the rules,in the Aromanian documentary Carvanea Armaneasca the couple escapes from the community party,but the man has certain doubts,"Your folks will gonna break my bones!",in the Romanian rural novels like Ion and Morometii or the documentary film Aluna of the Serbian Vlach people we see the typical Romanian scene ,where the man expects the girl or woman in an isolated portion of the road to approach her,the sweet little female won\t get borred,that,s for sure(because the methods are...well,at least complicated).That's why these episodes with Ivancu or Ivanko look tipically Romanian/Vlach.http://www.tuomatrimonio.eu/tradizio...mb&f=falseEDIT YOU STUPID PENGUINS ,FIX MY POSTS....NOWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!http://www.tuomatrimonio.eu/tradizio...itions-part-1/https://www.tentazionedonna.it/paese...i-in-calabria/http://www.encyclopedia.com/places/s...ography/vlachshttps://djaunter.com/bulgarian-weddi...itions-part-1/https://djaunter.com/bulgarian-weddi...itions-part-1/https://books.google.it/books?id=LvV...20kill&f=falsehttps://books.google.it/books?id=LvV...20kill&f=falsehttps://books.google.it/books?id=tMj...20lamb&f=falseEDIT VA IA MAMA DRACU DE LICURICI SPURCATI
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 22-05-17 at 09:28.

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    Marriages controlled by the couple"s families were something common until recently,surely not only for the South Italian, Romanian/Aromanian and Bulgarian people.However,we see this obsession of the South Italian and Romanian/Aromanian people to preserve or more often,to try to raise their social status,this competition starts identically in both cases,when the dowry starts to be prepared soon after the child is born,being defended like the richest stronghold,the Romanian youngster will always marry the richer girl,surely not his lover, and the rural novel Ion has full coverage here.My grandfather from Baragan has done the same and he and his mates had a saying for this:'De la mine a treia casaMa insurai si luai nevastaO luai cu patru boiS-o turma mare de oiBoii tragOile imi placDar cu toanta ce-am sa fac?'"From my place to the third houseI got married and got a spouseI took her with 4 bullsAnd a large flockThe bulls pullThe sheeps I like the mostBut the silly girlI haven,t yet lost"Another common thing for both the Romanians and the Aromanians is this temptation,urge,to break the rules,in the Aromanian documentary Carvanea Armaneasca the couple escapes from the community party,but the man has certain doubts,"Your folks will gonna break my bones!",in the Romanian rural novels like Ion and Morometii or the documentary film Aluna of the Serbian Vlach people we see the typical Romanian scene ,where the man expects the girl or woman in an isolated portion of the road to approach her,the sweet little female won\t get borred,that,s for sure(because the methods are...well,at least complicated).That's why these episodes with Ivancu or Ivanko look tipically Romanian/Vlach.IVANCU,RAISING THE STAKES:https://books.google.it/books?id=tMj...20lamb&f=falseIvanko (Bulgarian: Иванко) killed Ivan Asen I, ruler of the renascent Second Bulgarian Empire, in 1196. The murder occurred when Asen angrily summoned Ivanko to discipline him for having an affair with his wife's sister.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanko_of_Bulgariahttps://books.google.it/books?id=LvV...sister&f=falseThe Aromanian song Treili Inveasti posted on Romanian music speaks of these kind of events.
    Last edited by Diurpaneus; 22-05-17 at 09:22.

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    From Alexandru


    Oscan features in Romanian and Southern Italian


    Latin o>>>>>>Oscan, S. Italian,Romanian u


    Oscan vocabulary


    nú – novius – new [IE *newo- ‘new’]


    pru – pro – for, instead of
    prúfatted – probavit – he has shown, proven


    púst – post – after
    pústiris – posterius – posterior
    pustmas – postumae
    putíans – possint – they would be able
    púuttram – pontem – a bridge (acc.sg.)




    Italian Napoli,Napoletano Napule


    "Variation between o and u (only in the Latin alphabet,
    of course, since the native alphabet has no o), mostly in the case of original"(A Grammar of Oscan and Umbrian)


    Romanian o-u variation


    Transylvanian durmi,Aromanian durniri,Durmitor,a mountain from Montenegro,Wallachian,Moldavian dormi
    Wallachian ruman,Moldavian,Transylvanian(Palia de la Orastie) roman





    "For example, pjéskje ("rocks" or "stones") is related to Oscan *psk."(Molise language)


    Romanian pisc,Etymology Uncertain,peak, summit (of a hill or mountain)






    Latin q>>>>>>Oscan,Romanian p




    R.apă 'water' (cf. Latin aqua)


    patru 'four' (cf. Latin quattor)


    iapă, 'horse' (cf. Latin equa)


    păresimi, 'Lent' (cf. Latin quadragesima)




    O,


    four: petora
    water: aapa






    Diphtong au,preserved in S Italian and Romanian,possibly under the influence of the
    Oscan substratum.


    "10th cent. From Latin aut 'id.' From either *aut-i 'id.' in Proto-Italic.
    From Proto-Indo-European *h2eu̯ "away."
    Romance: Western Vulgar Latin: Asturian o, Portuguese ou, Galician ou, Catalan o, French ou, Italian o ;
    Eastern Vulgar Latin: Romanian au,Italic: Oscan aut "or," Umbrian ute 'id.'"




    Oscan-Latin
    aut – at – and, also
    censaum – censere – to estimate, to evaluate
    moltaum – multare – to increase, to multiply

    The loss of au in Albanian


    Latin aurum,Albanian ar
    Latin taurum,Albanian tar




    Betacism in Oscan and Romanian


    Oscan vocabulary


    bivus (nom.pl.) – vivus – alive [IE *gwei- ‘to live’]
    cúmbened – convenit – he came together


    Romanian


    Latin vervex,Romanian berbec,ram
    L veteranus,R batran
    L alveus,R albie



    Latin e>>>>>>Oscan,S Italian,Moldavian,Aromanian i




    "OSCAN. 1. Before another vowel, e becomes an open i and is invariably denoted by an i-cliaracter (i in the native
    alphabet, earlier i"(A Grammar of Oscan and Umbrian)


    "Among the commonest variations
    are the following :
    1. Variation between e and i. In the great majority of instances this occurs where the sound lies
    between e and i, or, more correctly, between the extremes of an open e and a close i ;
    that is, it is either the open i from original short i (45), or the, close e from original e
    (42) or from oi in final syllables
    (67, 2). The spelling e is relatively more frequent in the native than in the Latin alphabet.
    The use of e for closed I from original I, or, vice versa, of i for the open e from original short e,
    or for open e from original ai or ei, is rare. The variation between e and i corresponds then in general
    to the Oscan use of f"
    Last edited by Alexandru www; 27-05-17 at 21:34.

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    [QUOTE=Alexandru www;509428]
    Schwa,the most important vowel in Romanian and S Italian








    "Graficamente, in italiano (o in latino) non c’è un segno per questa importantissima sesta vocale,
    più usata di ogni altra, nel nostro dialetto: lo schwa. Il nome deriva dall’alfabeto ebraico ed
    indica un suono (non una vocale vera e propria) indefinito tra la /a/ e la /e/, o addirittura una
    sorta di piccolo stop tra le sillabe. Si scrive, di solito, così ‘ ə ‘, oppure anche con la più comune ‘ë’,
    come in albanese ed in arbëreshë (la lingua di Greci, il paesino di mia madre).
    Nessun altro dialetto italico ne fa un uso così massiccio, come il napoletano.
    Man mano che ci si sposta verso est, in Irpinia lo schwa può trasformarsi in ‘ i ‘ o ‘e’
    (se interconsonantico) ovvero in ‘o’ ed ‘a’ (dipende dal genere) se a fine parola.
    Infatti, di pàtətə abbiamo anche le versioni ‘pàtito’ e ‘pàrito’, di ‘màmmətə’,
    abbiamo ‘màmmita’ o ‘màmmeta’. Gli esempi sono innumerevoli.
    Prendete il celeberrimo verso del poeta-condomino del Professor Bellavista.
    “ ‘A libbərtà… purə ‘o pappəvəllə, l’addə pruvà!”
    Ci sono più schwa che ‘a’.


    La linguistica è una materia stupenda. Un orecchio attento, sa riconoscere le varianze
    dialettali della nostra terra attraverso il fluttuare dello schwa nelle parole.
    Come si può immediatamente intuire, non solo non è una vocale dal suono definito,
    ma non può assolutamente stare da sola: ha necessariamente bisogno di una consonante
    che la protegga, che ne agevoli la sopravvivenza. Lo schwa sembra un cucciolo,
    una mascotte e un jolly. Amo, dunque, lo schwa."(Schwa ,mon amour)






    MCK>


    "Where does the Romanian "ă"(schwa) come f"


    "Just curious. It certainly did not come from Latin since there are no other romance languages
    that have this vowel(as far as I know).So it's either inherited from the thracians,or borrowed
    from Slavic.What do you think? And how does it sound to you? Strange,...ugly,interesting?"

    EDIT

    "The most striking phonological difference is the Neapolitan weakening
    of unstressed vowels into schwa (schwa is pronounced like the a in about or the u in upon)."(Neapolitan language)


    Latin a,e>>>>>>Romanian schwa
    Last edited by Alexandru www; 28-05-17 at 19:22.

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    [QUOTE=Alexandru www;509429]


    The extensive use of Latin familia in Romanian,Aromanian and Albanian


    Old Romanian famEAie,Aromanian fumEAlji,from a Latin root famEl**,Albanian familje(family) and femije(child),
    literary Romanian femeie,Romanian dialectal fomeie,fumeie,femie,fimeie.
    In Old Romanian it meant family too,now it only means woman,while the Aromanian senses are familiy and child.




    "FAMI´LIA in Old Latin famelia, in Oscan famelo, in Umbrian famedia, is probably in its original
    sense a body of persons belonging to a house, a household (Osc. faa-ma =house, Sanskr. dhâ = to settle,
    dhâman = settlement). The etymology of Festus (s. v. famuli), deriving familia from the Oscan famel,
    meaning “a slave,” is now commonly rejected;"






    "Original meaning — ‘house full of slaves’
    In Latin, familia began as a collective noun meaning ‘all the slaves belonging to one master’ based on a common Latin
    word for slave-servant, famulus.
    The Romans appear to have borrowed the word from their Italian neighbours, one race of whom were the Osci. By 350
    BCE Rome had conquered the Osci. The Oscan word for ‘slaves of the household’ was famelo, while Oscan for household
    slave was famel.
    A little later in Latin, familia came to mean all the people over whom the paterfamilias (Latin ‘head of the household’)
    held sway. That included his wife, his sons and his daughters. So even in Latin familia sometimes meant ‘members of
    one’s immediate family,’ and sometimes the extended circle of one’s blood relatives out to second and third cousins"
    ("Thoughts on the Latin word familia ")



    Latin nd>>>>>>>Oscan,S.Italian,Romanian nn,n


    Oscan-Latin


    úpsannam – operandam – working


    Napoletano granne,Italian grande


    Latin brandeum,Aromanian brîn, bărnu,Romanian brau,plural brane,traditional belt


    Latin manduco,manducare,Italian manducare,Romanian manca,mancare(c=k),Aromanian mî(n)c, măc(u), mîncată, mîcare,
    Megleno-Romanian m(ăn)ǫnc, măncari,Istro-Romanian mărăncu,other Romance versions,with dj/g,for Latin d.


    Latin nd,preserved in other Romanian words,L intendere,R intinde,intindere


    Oscan tEfúrúm – sacrificium – a victim,Romanian tEAfar(=unharmed,the diphtong ea comes in Romanian,many times, from Latin e,other times,
    it comes from Latin ea,R. geaman,L geminus,R geamat,L gemitus,R geana,L genae)
    Last edited by Alexandru www; 28-05-17 at 20:10.

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    Italian bocca,Neapolitan mmocca,Romanian moaca(face)
    Latin porta,Romanian poarta


    Neapolitan moccafava,Romanian mocofan,uomo credulone,
    related to Romanian gura-casca(literally,yawning mouth),
    gura-sparta (literally, broken mouth).






    <Addurmirse cu ‘a zizza ‘mmocca
    Ad litteram: Addormentarsi con la tetta in bocca >


    Italian tetta,Neapolitan zizza,Romanian țîță(read tsîtsă)




    < Barba, capille e ppalluccella ‘mmocca specialmente nell’espressione serví ‘e barba etc.
    Ad litteram: barba, capelli e pallina in bocca specialmente >










    Neapolitan banne,Romanian ban,money,coin,from Latin banda,bandum,I say




    "e BANNË - s. m., pl. “i soldi, il danaro”; `o jammë è bbàchënë ncoppë e bbanë:
    “il tizio non paga”; ‘e bbane: “il danaro”; bano: nu bbano: “un soldo”.
    a BBANÈSIA – s. f. “il danaro”; `o jammë ra bbanèsia: “il tizio del danaro”.
    nu BBANO- v. BANË."(l'antica parlesia napoletana...)


    EDIT

    "The bandon (Greek: βάνδον) was the basic military and territorial administrative unit of the middle Byzantine EmpireIts name, like the Latin bandus and bandum ("ensign, banner"), had a Germanic origin,compare Gothic bandwa sign".




    "During the course of the 5th century, the Roman minting system collapsed.
    The western half of the Roman Empire was overrun by Germanic tribes,
    although some mints remained active in the West under the new barbarian rulers
    and continued to mint coins, including high-quality gold solidi, in the name
    of the eastern emperors, most notably in Ostrogothic Italy and Burgundy"(Byzantine mints)".




    "With the death of Attila the Hun (450 CE) the Ostrogoths declared their independence.
    In 474 CE, Theodoric (known as Theodoric the Great) became king of the Ostrogoths and,
    backed by the Byzantine Empire, led a campaign into Italy. The Byzantine Empire (formerly
    the Eastern Roman Empire) hoped for a return of the glory of Rome and Theodoric, it was thought
    , could accomplish this by re-claiming the kingdom from the Germanic King of Italy, Odoacer,
    who had taken it from the last Roman emperor. Theodoric defeated Odoacer, pretended to offer
    terms of peace, and then killed him, establishing, in 493 CE, the Ostrogothic Empire which
    stretched from Sicily, through Italy, to France and parts of modern-day Spain.
    Under Theodoric, the empire flourished and Roman art, literature, and culture were embraced.
    Although his campaign had been funded by the Byzantines, Theodoric ruled his empire independently
    and maintained friendly relations with the empire to the east.
    His daughter, and successor, Amalasvintha, ruled first as regent, in 526 CE and in 534 CE became
    queen at the death of her son Athalaric. She was assassinated by her cousin Theodahad, who claimed
    to be the rightful heir to the throne."
    Her death sparked the wrath of Justinian I, Emperor of the Byzantine Empire, who claimed Theodahad a usurper.
    He sent the famous general Flavius Belisarius on campaign to Italy to bring the region back into line with the empire"(Ostrogoth)



    EDIT

    Latin bandum had several meanings,IMO, the closest to the one of "money-coin" is that of "ensign".As mercenaries,those Germanic tribes knew under which banner they fought by the face of the Roman emperor from the coin,while in the scarcity of those periods even the native Roman soldiers were paid in products,mostly grains/food.
    Later,they were involved in large-scale minting,making of a big part of the whole process a "Germanic problem".





    " Medieval Latin bandum, bannum (“order, decree, ban”) "
    " Latin bandum, “a band or flag"
    "bandum (bandon, Latin bandum). Originally a battle standard, later a troop of 200 men fighting under such a..."

    QUITE A BIG EDIT

    Linguistic evidence for the movement of the Latin-speaking lowlanders into the highlands
    -the lowlanders have adapted to a Romanian/Latin phonology the Paleo-Balkanic terms,except for mal,which in Romanian means "shore,bank",while in Albanian,mountain.
    Latin L is preserved in Albanian,but it switches to R in South italian and Romanian,the so-called substratum follows this trend.
    Substratum words
    Albanian modhull,Romanian mazare
    Albanian brushtull,Romanian brusture
    Albanian mugull,Romanian mugur
    Albanian thumbull,Romanian sambure


    Latin words


    Latin masculus,Albanian mashkull(man,male),Romanian mascur(pig,hog,boar)
    Latin angelus,Albanian engjell,Romanian inger
    Latin mola ,Albanian mulli,Romanian moara
    "In Latin loanwords, intervocalic
    I appears as Alb II (popull, ulli, menjolle). Otherwise it gives I
    (larg, leti, plage). Geminated Lat II is reflected as I (pule, gjel, bule)."(Orel,Albanian Etymological Dictionary)
    L>>>>R shifts in Romanian and Southern Italian
    Calabrese sordi,Italian soldi
    Calabrese purviri,Italian polvere
    Calabrese pruppa,Italian polpa
    Calabrese furminari,Italian fulminare
    Calabrese curtejju,Italian coltello
    Puglian acierre,Italian uccello
    Napoletano barcunata,Italian balcone
    Napoletano purpo,italian polipo
    Napoletano sardo,Italian saldo
    Latin felicitas,Romanian fericire
    etc.


    Romanian cutreiera( to wander,to scour) comes from Latin contribulare,con plus tribulare,
    is the semantic shift that provide enough evidence for the movements into higher places ,treiera,from L. tribulare, means "to thersh".IMO,the expression "a cutreiera in lung si-n lat"
    ("to wander in long and wide") proves that the Proto-Romanians knew the initial sense of contribulare.




    <In the process of Romanization, the sense of a number of Latin words not pertaining to the life of shepherds was changed by the ancestors of the Rumanians to denote shepherding terms, obviously an indication of the main occupation of this people:


    meridies ,midday, middle day ,meriză,the place where the cattle rest at midday’
    animalia ,animals,nămaie,small cattle’
    coccineus ,scarlet red,coasin ,(dialectal):’sheep with reddish spots on its head’
    turma ,unit of the Roman cavalry; 30 men; (fig.): group ,turmă,flock’
    *stimular(ia) (stimulus) ,pointed stake’ (used in battles) ,strămurare,goad
    minor ,to rise, to menace,mâna,to drive, urge on; to carry, push, goad’
    Remarks: turmă is an example of a word with a special sense (military) being used in a different special sense (shepherd). Latin stimulus had a similar, but broader sense: pointed stake used in battle; and driving stake, with an iron point, used to drive oxen; as well as figuratively ‘stimulus, irritation’.
    Another Latin word, mixticius ‘mixed, crossed, hybrid’ may be added, probably => N. Rum. mistreţ ‘wild boar, (Sus scrofa)’; in French, Provençal, Spanish, and Portuguese with the original Latin sense (see Rosetti, A., Cazacu, B., & Coteanu, I. (red.), Istoria limbii române. [The History of the Rumanian Language], Vol. II, Edit. Acad. RSR, Bucharest, 1969 (Vol. I, 1965)., p. 150). Although this is not a specific shepherd term, it belongs to the life of shepherds.
    (Eastern Romance)


    Compared with the results,all the source-terms are rather theoretical,pointing to the typical Latin abstractions.



    The continuation of that edit is even bigger.


    "Insecure times called for construction of fortifications. Some of
    these fortified sites were regional centres with military crews and a still
    functioning ecclesiastical organization. Besides these, the imperial
    authorities strived to build smaller fortifications on important strategic
    points along the roads, so as to defend and oversee the communication and
    supply systems. These fortified sites also served as refuge centres that
    provided safe haven to the populations fleeing the endangered lowland
    settlements. Parallel to the construction of these fortifications, smaller
    ones were built by rural communities, to provide them with safer
    positions. Although their positions changed by moving into locations on
    higher altitudes, they carried on with their economic activities on earlier
    agricultural fields with a shift towards pastoralism.These measures created a new defensive system, born out of necessity and reflecting how weak the Empire had become. The aim was to reduce the influx of refugees that sought shelters in the south, since the refuges were built in every part of the Empire; but also put to a heavy test the barbarians’ ability to lay siege and to maintain their supply chain"(The World of the Slavs)


    "There is in fact enough Latin agricultural vocabulary in Romanian -words for sowing, ploughing, harrowing, and so on - to show that they were farming in Roman times. [69] The shift towards pastoralism was probably quite gradual. One particular factor that may have helped to promote it was the practice of horse-breeding, which was, or at least became, a Vlach speciality: the medieval records are full of Vlach muleteers and Vlachs leading caravans of pack-horses"(Noel Malcom)


    "One of the significant elements of the economic life
    of an ancient society were market days/village fairs
    (nundinae), which had a significant role in supplying
    both the urban and rural population.41 In urban areas,
    periodical market days were held where the townspeople
    could buy produce. The residents of nearby villages
    sold their goods there and thus obtained much needed
    money for rent or taxes, as well as for buying required
    goods or services.42 The Theodosian Codex points to the
    importance of selling produce by stating that peasants
    were freed from paying lustral tax if they sold produce
    from their own farms.43 Products bought for farming
    were exempt from the same taxes.44 These regulations
    clearly demonstrate the importance of sustaining agricultural
    production on both, large and small estates.
    The decrees of Emperor Justinian I also stated this view.
    In Novella XXXII, addressed to Dominicius, the praetorian
    prefect of Illyricum, a series of decrees were
    passed to guard against the greed of creditors who took
    pawned land from peasants who were unable to repay,
    due to poor harvests, the loan of crop seeds.45 In certain
    areas itinerant traders also had a significant role.
    At Caricin Grad, a large number of artisans, such
    as potters, blacksmiths, goldsmiths, glaziers and others
    were testified to, clearly indicating that it was a regional
    centre which supplied both the local area and those
    further afield. The very concept of a newly built centre
    with wide streets and porticos points to the fact that the
    city was planned as an administrative and trade centre.
    (Fig.3) An indication of the lively local and regional
    trade is the presence of camels and mules at Caricin
    Grad,48 which were particularly used in the 6th century
    for transporting goods."
    "The 8-day nundinal cycle also seems to have been observed elsewhere in Italy, particularly Campania, as attested in stone calendars and graffiti, as at Pompeii.[85] There are records from the imperial period of towns and villas petitioning for the right to hold such markets (ius nundinarum).[86] Such a right seems to have been universally granted to the capitals of Italy's prefectures (praefecturae) but also extended to some smaller localities where markets were necessary for local trade.[87] These local fairs used the same calendrical system as Rome's, marking out the days of the year into cycles from A to H, but each town or village in an area typically used a separate day, permitting itinerant traders (circumforanei) to attend each in turn."(Nundinae)
    "According to Frayn, we may speak of a
    « central place » wherever a large town functions as a market centre for a
    number of smaller settlements (both smaller towns and villages) in a
    surrounding plain. Thus Capua was the « central place » of North Campania
    because it was a market centre for the rural population of the area (Cic, Leg.
    Agr. 2.88-89), while Noia performed a similar function for the population of the
    South Campanian plain."(Markets and Fairs in Roman Italy)


    "La straordinaria fertilità della Campania antica, famosa soprattutto per il grano
    e il vino, consentiva di sostenere un’articolata rete di città, che trovavano nell’enorme
    mercato di Roma lo sbocco principale per le loro eccedenze produttive,
    alimentando intense relazioni commerciali, episodicamente attestate dai ritrovamenti
    archeologici, ma ricostruibili nei loro meccanismi fondamentali grazie
    alla documentazione epigrafica (indices nundinarii) relativa alle nundinae,
    mercati periodici di ciclo breve, che si tenevano ogni 7 o 8 giorni in alcune delle
    città più importanti della Regio "(TRA LAZIO E CAMPANIA: REGIO I AUGUSTEAE PROBLEMATICHE ODIERNE DI RIPARTIZIONE TERRITORIALE)




    "The economic activities of some castella were connected
    to agriculture, which particularly applies to those
    fortifications situated along the plains and valleys.
    This is indicated by the names of castella in some areas
    which, according to M. Mirkovi}, bear the names of
    former landowners: Tim/ana – Timiana, OÙrbr/ana –
    Urbriana, Kassia – Cassia








    In the region of the Leskovac basin there were also
    villages in the river valleys, evident by the rare finds of
    Early Byzantine coins in Re~ica, Turjane, Rafuna
    (Crkvena Livada site), Lipovica, Ora{ac (Padina site)
    and Rujkovac (Vaskina Porta). These are coin finds
    which can be dated to the period of the reigns of Justin
    I and Justinian I. What is particularly indicative are the
    finds of a solidus of Justin I in Re~ica and a tremissis
    of Justinian I in Turjane.32 The cessation of coin circu-
    lation in the second half of the 6th century in lowland
    parts of the basin points to the fact that the population,
    by and large, abandoned the valleys and retreated to
    hilltop fortifications. This corresponds with the intensified
    building of structures within the empty areas of
    the city and porticos at Caricin Grad."
    "Towards the end of the 4th century, as a result of
    the barbarian invasions and their subsequent settling of
    the region of northern Illyricum, significant socio-economic
    turmoil started to occur, which was particularly
    reflected in the changing roles of the settlements. Roman
    lowland settlements gave way to new fortified settlements
    on the dominant and well-guarded higher grounds
    above the river valleys or in the mountainous regions."
    "The anthropogeographic features of the area, the
    economic resources in particular, played a significant
    role in the settlement of the Leskovac basin. Most of
    all, the river valleys stand out, the South Morava in particular,
    as well as the Veternica, Jablanica, Pusta Reka
    and Toplica, as being suitable for agricultural production
    and wheat cultivation. It is worth remembering that
    annona represented the foundation of the economy for
    urban and rural populations.7 On the other hand, the
    foot hills on the margins of the Leskovac basin were
    suited to cattle breeding. Viticulture was also present as
    one of the most important cultures of that time, judging
    by the finds of stone winepresses from Vrbovac,8 in
    the vicinity of Caricin Grad and grape seeds at Caricin
    Grad. It is quite certain that in this area, as indicated by
    the numerous remains of different kinds of grain and
    fruit at Cari~in Grad, other agricultural produce was also
    grown."(Late Roman Fortifications in the Leskovac Basin
    in Relation to Urban Centers)
    Last edited by Alexandru www; 04-06-17 at 20:26.

  22. #222
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Romania



    Diphtongs,mostly

    Italian e,South Italian ie,Latin e,Romanian ie


    Lucanian pariende,Italian parente
    Lucanian tiempe,Italian tempo
    Puglian fierru,Italian ferro,Romanian fier
    Puglian cientu,Italian cento
    Lucanian cerviedd,Italian cervello
    Calabrian nsiettu,Italian insetto
    Calabrian giergu,italian gergo
    Calabrian tiella,Italian teglia
    Naploletan miereco,Italian medico
    Napoletan miezzo,Italian mezzo,Romanian miez
    Napoletan auciello,Italian uccello
    Latin perire,Romanian pieri
    Latin pectus,Romanian piept
    Latin felem,Romanian fiere

    EA

    Napoletan currea,Romanian curea,Latin corrigia,belt

    From Treppecore and Pulcinella
    Abruzzese plaje,nudi pianori montani,Romanian plai,plateau.related to playa and so on
    A. nemale,I animale,R namaie(cattle)
    A carria, I trasportare,R cara,Latin carrare,from carrus,R carare=path,car-cart
    A avemo,R avem,I abbiamo,we have
    A ammistricari(to mix),R mistret(boar)


    EDIT


    The maritime route Brindisium-Dyrrachium was well-known,used ,for instance, by the Via Egnatia.Wikipedia\s Roman Roads map gives two main ways to Brindisium,from Rome,through Campania,and along the eastern coast,from,let's say,Abruzzo,while from Dyrrachium you could have gone either Constantinople,through Via Egnatia,or Lissus-Naissus-Danube.










    "Pescara's first indicators of settlement date to 1500 BCE, but it is unknown which tribe first settled in the city.[2] It was conquered by the Romans in 214 BCE and remained "Aternum" after the city allied itself with Punic Carthaginian military commander Hannibal. The Romans developed the city and it became an important location for shipping and trade occurring between the Balkans and Rome; the Romans made the city of Pescara the capital of the Valeria region"(Province of Pescara)


    "The importance of Pescara in the territory in which it is located, is measured in the strategic role that thecity has taken in economic and social relations with the neighboring territories. In particular: the relationship with the other cities of Abruzzo region, the relationship with Rome, the role in the Adriatic director, and the relationship with the Balkan side of the Adriatic."(Pescara partner profile)
    "Aternum was a Roman town, on the site of Pescara, in Italy. Some historians refer to Aternum with the name of Ostia Aterni: in fact, the town was built at the mouth of the river Aternus. Aternum had an important role in Italian transport and it was connected to Rome through the Via Tiburtina, and its extension the Via Valeria. The city was an important port for trade with the Eastern provinces of the Empire; the seaport was supposedly also used for military purposes"



    EDIT
    Those ancient Abruzzese merchants didn\t stop at the Albanian shore,because a large part of the Roman army was expecting them at the Danube frontier.
    Maybe these people were involved in certain seamantic shifts that took place in Romanian,
    murg(red/dark-brown horse) and amurg*(dusk,twilight),from Latin amurca,I would say.

    amurca f (genitive amurcae); first declension
    The watery part that flows out in pressing olives
    The lees or dregs of oil
    Aragonese: morca
    English: amurca
    Italian: morchia
    Portuguese: amurca
    Spanish: amurca, morga, murga
    "wo and a half million olive trees, more than a thousand farms, two thousands years of experience in the production of high quality olive oil: this is Sabina.
    Our olive groves stretch over more than one thousand square kilometres of hilly countryside, from the heart of Central Italy to Rome, across oak forests, historical abbeys and medieval villages.
    The vocation of Sabina for olive oil production is rooted not only in ancient traditions, but also in solid paedoclimatic conditions: clay and limestone soil, prevalence of southern exposure, altitudes ranging from 200 to 500 metres above sea level, a temperate Mediterranean climate, characterised by the absence of temperature peaks and drought limited to the summer period.
    In this ideal habitat, the hands of man have selected a wide range of olive varieties, a valuable resource of biodiversity, that the product specification of Sabina PDO identifies as a key feature in the characterization of our olive oil."(Olio Extra Vergine Di Oliva.Sabina Dop)






    "Museum of Olive Oil in Abruzzo – how is extra virgin olive oil made?
    The “Museo dell’Olio” (Museum of Olive Oil) in Bucchianico (Chieti), which I visited recently, it is quite a unique and interesting place whether you are new to Abruzzo, a local or a seasoned Abruzzo lover.
    I absolutely loved it, and not just because it was created and it is run by my dear friends at natural farm and winery Cantinarte. I genuinely think it’s a great place to visit, for tourists and locals alike, and why not, with classrooms and in study trips. Discovering the traditional, artisanal way of making olive oil will not just give you theoretical knowledge (and extra conversation points at dinner parties) but will also help you when it comes to buy olive oil for your consumption."


    "The aim of the Olive Oil Museum is is to celebrate one of our region’s food treasures – Abruzzo olive oil – and to preserve the memory of traditional oil making tecniques. In fact, the Museum holds a precious relic of the bygone era when olive oil was made entirely by hand and without any electrical power involved: a giant wooden press from the XVIII sentury, used to extract the oil from the olive paste."
    Last edited by Alexandru www; 08-06-17 at 20:33.

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    However,the exclusive Romanian-Albanian shifts that took place within Latin originated along the Danube.The following change ,Latin paludem(swamp),Romanian padure/Albanian pyll(forest), occurred in this area,probably along the Sirmium-Singidunum-Viminacium line.








    "Matasović lists some developments in Albanian that are readily familiar to Romanian speakers. Lexically there is, for example, the borrowing of Latin paludem ‘swamp’ with metathesis and shift to the meaning ‘forest’: Albanian pyll < *padule, Romanian pădure.
    Should the Proto-Albanian Urheimat be located in Vojvodina or Slavonia instead, with southern Serbia as only a later point of Albanian expansion?"(Romanian-Albanian parallels and the location of the Proto-Albanian Urheimat)


    "A reference to their early history lies in the poetic inscription of a grave in Lãžen (see above), part of which reads: Ipso immargebam caro florente marito in quartum decimumque annum ... 'I died at the age of 14, in the flowering of my precious manhood'. The meaning of the Latin mergo is "I sink," while in-mergo could be translated as "I dip, I dive". Yet, C. Daicoviciu is right in translating the text as "Mergeam în (pe) anul al 14-lea"*, i.e., "I departed at the age of 14." In this case we can pinpoint the locale of the change from
    Lat. mergo "I sink > Dr. merge "goes, departs", Alb. mërgonj "I remove". The finding was made along the river Asamus, today Osãm, Southwest of Novae (Svištov) in Moesia Inferior. The process which led to the formation of the Rumanian language may have begun here. Indications of this process may be seen not only in the change of meaning in mergo; in immargebam the a in place of e may be an error but, more likely, it points to a very early a > ã** alteration (Alb. mërgonj). "(Gabor Vekony)


    * Actually, the expression can also be typically translated "I was going on/towards my 14th year",
    "a merge pe"="to go on(on=towards)(a year/age)
    **in Romanian,a,e,i,o from Latin shifts to ã,some dialects have a form mãrg.
    L capistrum,R cãpãstru,Lcontra ,R cãtrã
    "Similarly to the Greek belief, the Romans would leave coins on the tombstones of their soldiers who died in combat.
    According to an ancient Greek myth, souls of the deceased needed to pay Charon the ferryman a toll to cross over the underworld river Styx and then enter the afterlife. For that to happen, they would put coins in the mouths of the deceased.
    "(The Origins Of Leaving Coins on Soldiers' Tombstones)






    With that many people sinking in the Danube marshes,the Romans from these parts have realized that in Rome and Constantinople people party alot ,on their efforts,it appears that many of the soldiers were connected somehow to South Italy,so they became extremely jealous.
    The local chiefs/commanders have understood that a big part of the Roman army was sitting next to them,the following step being autonomy-they didn't want to be Romans anymore,this term was suited for the peoples who spend alot of money on their backs,but "Dacians",Regalian was "Decebal's nephew",Galerius wanted to switch the name of the Empire into Dacian(=My Empire or The Empire of Where I Come From),leading Rome using thier own style,just like Sirmium's Valentinian,there were many emperors from those areas.




    "Regalianus (260) was a Dacian, falsely pretended to be a descendant of Decebal"
    "According to Lactantius, Galerius affirmed his Dacian identity and avowed himself the enemy of the Roman name once made emperor, even proposing that the empire should be called, not the Roman, but the Dacian Empire, much to the horror of the patricians and senators. He exhibited anti-Roman attitude as soon as he had attained the highest power, treating the Roman citizens with ruthless cruelty, like the conquerors treated the conquered, all in the name of the same treatment that the victorious Trajan had applied to the conquered Dacians, forefathers of Galerius, two centuries before."
    Last edited by Alexandru www; 09-06-17 at 17:26.

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    Country: USA - Illinois



    It's doubted that they are only one people. It's also extremely doubtful that they all sprang up from a small region of Albania, northern Greece, and FYROM. The total amounts of Vlach population is at least equal to all 3 of those countries put together.

    It's likely that it does constitute a mix of Illyrians, Dacians, Thracians, and (official) Macedonians who were Romanized and likely were similar in appearance and culture from long before then.

    Most Vlachs do have those haplogroups but when it goes to the northernmost points in Slovakia, Poland, Ukraine that descend from Transylvanian Vlachs, haplogroup R1a, I2a, and E-V13 are very dominant, but the J2 from other Vlach groups is more rare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post
    Autosomal STR markers maps from "Analiza genetica a
    populatiilor umane de pe teritoriul Romaniei folosind markeri STR"




    The genetic signature of the first map shows a wider(at least south of the Danube,
    where it is also present very consistently in northern Serbia*,unlike the other maps)
    distribution,with higher frequencies and density,suggesting an older origin.
    In Romania it strongly resembles Dacia Traiana, while south of the Danube
    it reminds of the Latin-speaking areas from the Balkans, during the Roman/Eastern Roman Empire.




    *I'm sure that,if this set of genes is present in/near Novi Sad,there must be a further,
    western,extension,which the map doesn't show it,into the traditional Serbian lands and beyond.


    Attachment 7888

    Attachment 7889

    Attachment 7890

    Attachment 7891


    EDIT:


    The Romanians have plenty more Balkanic genes,
    but the study offers a few locations for comparison from south of
    the Danube,Serbia has only two(Novi Sad and Kosovo),the
    rest of the countries,only one each.
    The first map represents the Proto-Wallachians,starting with Gustav Weigand ,the linguists have recognized their speech until,at least ,the Mures river,while the Transylvanians,who had initially dwelled in the northern parts,according to scholars,can be connected with second and third ones.

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