Vlach haplogroups & deep ancestry?

Ma'am's above article was obviously inspired by Jirecek's writings,I mean,there are surely a lot of things that doesn't fit here.


First of all,she speaks about the Asen's Uprising as if it was the most clear evidence for the Slavization of the Vlach nobility or at least part of it.


But in this case the Vlach warlords would have been only simple military tools ,acting on behalf of the Bulgarian boyars.


Another thing that the little princess seems to forget,is the fact that the Asen brothers ,as Cuman-Vlachs, most likely didn't come from the main cores of Romanianness,but most likely from the Wallati area,the Cuman bishopric of Milcov.


It explains why the Pope(meaning priest in Romanian) called him a "Roman"," we know that your ancestors came from Rome",because he was both a Vlach and a Catholic.


It is known the Wallati's zealous character,the Catholic chronicle mentions that they have fake bishops, converting the Germans and Hungarians from SE Transylvania (Burzenland)
In other words, the Wallati were a majority of Orthodox Vlachs,possibly led by a minority of Catholic Vlachianized Cumans or Vlacho-Cumans.


However,the strong religious activity of those Vlachs clearly indicates that they were at least autonomous and a better term for their relationship with the Vlacho-Cumans would be cohabitation.

Speaking of the Polaka's proposed Slavization of the Vlach rulers

In reality,it was quite the opposite, when these groups of Vlachs seized the power,they began a policy of cultural compatibilization,to achieve the elite's integration into the Bulgarian structures conjuncturally,in my words, these actions were only for the big guys,without affecting the masses of the Vlachs,that didn't understand anything from the Church Slavonic,especially, knowing their habits.


https://books.google.ro/books?id=YI...wAXoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=walati vlachs&f=false
https://books.google.ro/books?id=Q9...AgQAQ#v=onepage&q=qui walati vocantur&f=false
 
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Another important clue comes from a member of the Vlach group led by Asens,Ivanko.


They certainly didn't know the typical diplomacy of the Bulgarian boyars,Slavicized and Byzantinizized for centuries,the way Ivanko addresses the Emperor clearly shows that they didn't have strong and for long relations with the Greeks either, using words like,"goat",for the imperial ladies,verbs like "impregnate", and this gazing atmosphere that comes from the chronicle, pointing that it was a shepherdly,Romanian ,business,,having an "I'll **** her until she can't walk straight on the street",in his head'.


Actually, the Vlachs natively had also the walk,they had the talk(signaled by their shrewdness),but these words prove that they were novices in dealing with the pressures on the highest level.

Nichetas also says about Ivanko that was "tall"(=Dinaric;not Bulgarian or Greek like) and "schrewd"(again,Vlach).


https://books.google.ro/books?id=tM...Q#v=onepage&q=ivanko vlach gazed goat&f=false
 
"Schrewed as a fox" ,a well-known expression says,and the things weren't different in the case of Thracians and Illyrians.

The Thracians wore in battles a cap made of fox skin,most likely ritualistic,associated with skillfulness,agility or cunningness, another prove that they really believed in these attributes comes from the peltast soldiers.

The fox in the IE mythology is well represented, for instance,English vixen,meaning foxy,that's why ,we,the Balkan men, will always find these Russian,American,Irish,Germanic,etc.,women very attractive, even without the obvious propaganda.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/vixen

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracian_clothing

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltast

The peltasts or the paintings from Kazanlak and Alexandrovo(there are a lot of men,in tone with the reality,very active and wit) offer another clues,that we're not dealing only with a Yamnaya skillfulness, but,with a strong Old Europe ancestry as well.

However, although the Romans and Greeks seem to be formed from the same kind of blendings,they and their culture look totally different.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxes_in_popular_culture
 
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Since the Indo-Europeans were shepherds with a stratified society, they were very good at making woolen clothes and these had to be well-defined, especially wored on important ceremonies,such as the funerary banquet, that ensured the life-death cycle.


We do have these two words in Romanian that clearly speak about the funeral parties:
Joc(substantive),a juca (verb),who have an additional meaning than in the other Latin languages,it doesn't mean only to play,but to dance as well.

Petrecere,meaning a party,comes from Latin per+traicere,literally," to cross over",connected to the funerary rituals and treasures found in the Dacian,Thracian and Illyrian lands.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/petrece#Romanian


https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/traicio#Latin

stecci,stecak,funerary dance

https://www.google.ro/imgres?imgurl...-zaAhXMZFAKHdwNA4QQMwhPKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8

Kazanlak,Thracian tomb


https://travelfinder.bg/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/202_Kazanlak-Thracian-tombs-6-1024x768.jpg
 
LABERIA said:
Also, the word passed from Albanian to Greek and greeks use the word kopela for girl.
Click to expand...

I didn't like to be offended ,that's for sure,when I was 8,there was a boy ,Babau,that hit me with a snowball, when we were playing; I was hitting him too before,but the problem was that he started laughing, pointing at me,after we have continued the game,I made a snowball with a rock inside and waited for his moment of weakness,breaking his head.


This happened at school and the professors have started to investigate me,but I have told them that I didn't know it had a rock inside,that's how I got it from the ground;they believed me,because I had the blue cord,meaning the best from school.
When I was 5 or 6 ,I used to literally disintegrate kids bigger in size and age(with about 2 years),their parents came to my house constantly complaining.

In the early twenties, for example,I was caught in a difficult situation, they were a dozen,I was alone,I don't remember what've said ,but you convince them using the eyes,look,it has to be extremely confident,daring,sharp,a short one slapped me once though.

However, after a certain time ,you'll understand that violence can't get you any satisfaction.
 
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Dobromir-Chrysos,another Vlach according to Nicetas,could have been Dinaric as well, because he is described as a"wild boar".



https://books.google.ro/books?id=tM...noECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=vlach wild boar&f=false



https://img.purch.com/w/660/aHR0cDo...2MDEvb3JpZ2luYWwvd2lsZC1ib2FyLTE4MDMwMS5qcGc=



The Dinaric race arose when a certain type of selection was triggered, by females, choosing men with boar -like heads,for either virility or religious reasons,we are talking about reversible relations here,with males adopting the animals' attributes.
 
Bachus said:
Dalmatian language belong to Italo-Dalmatian branch of Romance languages, unlike Romanian, Aromanian and Istro-Romanian which are eastern Romance languages.
Speakers of Dalmatian language were not Vlachs. They were at the high at high degree of cultural development and they were urban population which lived in coastal cities of eastern Adriatic.
Unlike Dalmatin Romance people Vlachs were sheperds from central, southern and eastern Balkans.
Click to expand...


Not really.


This difference also exists in the Latin countries from Western Europe,some of the dialects have the l-r rhotacism,like Romanian, others,don't,as the Albanian and Dalmatian.

Rhotacism was extremely common for Latin,the s-r,d-r,for example,thus, the l-r must represent as well the Vulgar speech,that, in certain conditions, such as,isolation or the existence of a big number of speakers ,has survived the corrections coming from the Roman ecclesiastical and institutional fields.


An argument for this,would be the existence of a specific type of l-r rhotacism in Romanesco(the dialect from Rome) and Andalusian Spanish,both territories with lots of colonies.


It would explain why the Albanians* didn't "migrated northwards", because they didn't have enough guts and were clearly fewer than the Romanians.

*Of course, the same can be said for the Serbs and Bulgarians,the other...famous monks.
The monks can be fanatically brave too,can yell for instance," Balkaniaaaaa!!!!",but you have to have many solutions,initiative,because the guts come mainly from the brain.

Don't get me wrong here,I like the Hollywood movies,but,in reality,there isn't a compensation,balancing,supreme authority, just because I know how to talk to the ladies,it doesn't mean that I lack other qualities...
 
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To summarize, the Dacians,Thracians and Illyrians were very smart people,with tremendous culture,that's why they have interpreted the Roman and Greek influences in their own way,that's why the Romanians can't be Italians or Greeks ever.
 
Bachus said:
Dalmatian language belong to Italo-Dalmatian branch of Romance languages, unlike Romanian, Aromanian and Istro-Romanian which are eastern Romance languages.
Speakers of Dalmatian language were not Vlachs. They were at the high at high degree of cultural development and they were urban population which lived in coastal cities of eastern Adriatic.
Unlike Dalmatin Romance people Vlachs were sheperds from central, southern and eastern Balkans.
Click to expand...


Let's not exaggerate, every people had vices...


For instance,the Ardiaei were well-known heavy drinkers.

"To the Greek world,the Illyrians appeared as heavy drinkers,from the drinking bouts of the Ardiaei,from which intoxicated men were conveyed home by their women,who had also participated,to the overindulgence of their kings,Agron and Gentius.


CTRL+F:heavy drinkers

https://archive.org/stream/15826619...s/15826619-John-Wilkes-The-Illyrians_djvu.txt
 
Dreptul Valah said:
To summarize, the Dacians,Thracians and Illyrians were very smart people,with tremendous culture,that's why they have interpreted the Roman and Greek influences in their own way,that's why the Romanians can't be Italians or Greeks ever.
Click to expand...

I wonder what will happen to this thread when Dacians, Thracians and Illyrians will turn out majority R1a (as expected).
 
Romanians vlachs are predominantly Slavic DNA with various influences (the Balkans category), and the Vlachs of Greece and Albania (aromanians) have predominantly Greek DNA and mixed with various influences.
 
Hi there,

I recently have tested Big Y and my subclade confirmed as E-Y16729.
I also have one match on 67 str markers with origins from Korce county in Albania.
This man is probably an orthodox Christian as he has a Christian name and lives in USA as some of his ancestors have emigrated there at the beginning of the 20th century.
Recently I found out about this useful website: https://yhrd.org
There you can compare your str markers with thousands of other samples from all over the world, collected by various researchers.
What I found is that I have very close matches with Aromanians from Stip, Macedonia and Dukasi, Albania:


forum image hosting


I have also uploaded my VCF file to YFULL and I am assigned as YF12612 and on the Y-tree as Y16729*.
I am not an Aromanian myself, however these close matches with Aromanians make me think that there is a possible Aromanian connection when it comes to my paternal line.
Also there is a family story that my paternal line originates somewhere more to the west in the Balkans as they came to the place where I am from, with some eastward migrations that occurred during the time of the Ottoman empire.
This coincides well with my match having origins from the Korce county in Albania!

So my question is, is my subclade, which right now is found in only one Bulgarian and me in the Balkans, in the British isles and the Persian gulf, possible Aromanian linage?
Keep in mind that I don't cluster with the Bulgarian nor with the British or the Persian gulf branch but I form my own branch, probably together with my 67 str markers match who hasn't tested for deep subclade!
 
JajarBingan said:
I wonder what will happen to this thread when Dacians, Thracians and Illyrians will turn out majority R1a (as expected).
Click to expand...
I wonder what will happen to this thread when you find out your expectations are stuck in 2009
 
JajarBingan said:
I wonder what will happen to this thread when Dacians, Thracians and Illyrians will turn out majority R1a (as expected).
Click to expand...

What are you on about? Proto-Illyrian was already discovered in Dalmatia to be J2b-L283. I can't comment on Dacians, but 2 Thracian graves uncovered were E-V13, and the other was R1a(of the Z93 variety). They wouldn't turn out the majority of R1a in the Balkans today which is Slavic/Germanic/Central Asian. Unless alot of basal M417 pops up. DOUBTFUL.
 
Aspar said:
Hi there,

I recently have tested Big Y and my subclade confirmed as E-Y16729.
I also have one match on 67 str markers with origins from Korce county in Albania.
This man is probably an orthodox Christian as he has a Christian name and lives in USA as some of his ancestors have emigrated there at the beginning of the 20th century.
Recently I found out about this useful website: https://yhrd.org
There you can compare your str markers with thousands of other samples from all over the world, collected by various researchers.
What I found is that I have very close matches with Aromanians from Stip, Macedonia and Dukasi, Albania:


forum image hosting


I have also uploaded my VCF file to YFULL and I am assigned as YF12612 and on the Y-tree as Y16729*.
I am not an Aromanian myself, however these close matches with Aromanians make me think that there is a possible Aromanian connection when it comes to my paternal line.
Also there is a family story that my paternal line originates somewhere more to the west in the Balkans as they came to the place where I am from, with some eastward migrations that occurred during the time of the Ottoman empire.
This coincides well with my match having origins from the Korce county in Albania!

So my question is, is my subclade, which right now is found in only one Bulgarian and me in the Balkans, in the British isles and the Persian gulf, possible Aromanian linage?
Keep in mind that I don't cluster with the Bulgarian nor with the British or the Persian gulf branch but I form my own branch, probably together with my 67 str markers match who hasn't tested for deep subclade!
Click to expand...


It is not accepting my CSV file. Is there a way it has to be formatted or something? Mine is from FullGenomes. Also on manual entry some of my STR values are coming up red and the system is not accepting my values? strange.
 
Aspar said:
Hi there,

I recently have tested Big Y and my subclade confirmed as E-Y16729.
I also have one match on 67 str markers with origins from Korce county in Albania.
This man is probably an orthodox Christian as he has a Christian name and lives in USA as some of his ancestors have emigrated there at the beginning of the 20th century.
Recently I found out about this useful website: https://yhrd.org
There you can compare your str markers with thousands of other samples from all over the world, collected by various researchers.
What I found is that I have very close matches with Aromanians from Stip, Macedonia and Dukasi, Albania:


forum image hosting


I have also uploaded my VCF file to YFULL and I am assigned as YF12612 and on the Y-tree as Y16729*.
I am not an Aromanian myself, however these close matches with Aromanians make me think that there is a possible Aromanian connection when it comes to my paternal line.
Also there is a family story that my paternal line originates somewhere more to the west in the Balkans as they came to the place where I am from, with some eastward migrations that occurred during the time of the Ottoman empire.
This coincides well with my match having origins from the Korce county in Albania!

So my question is, is my subclade, which right now is found in only one Bulgarian and me in the Balkans, in the British isles and the Persian gulf, possible Aromanian linage?
Keep in mind that I don't cluster with the Bulgarian nor with the British or the Persian gulf branch but I form my own branch, probably together with my 67 str markers match who hasn't tested for deep subclade!
Click to expand...

I tried again by manual entry with Yfiler, and no matches in the entire database. Does that make sense?
 
Dibran said:
I tried again by manual entry with Yfiler, and no matches in the entire database. Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

Hi Dibran,

After you type your values manually, press on "Add" and choose minimal haplotype.
Than further down, you will see a map with your close matches...
 
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