Slovenians , west-slavic, south-slavic or celtic

Which is a proof that there never existed some major Slavic migration in 6th century "AD". Among all of these facts, there are no traces (0%) of any N patrimonial haplogroups which would indicate any migration with "Avars" from the east and northeast.

"later Slavic (20-50%, which came from North-East, as paper says)." According to recent archeological studies, this (minor) migration occured already since 1st century AD, and not since 6th century as it is still believed. This fact was confirmed with studies in Prekmurje region where are the R1a haplogroups the most common. The same branch(haplogroup) appeared in current Austria (that's why are claims that Austrian R1a1a haplogroup (especially) belonged to Germans rather bald; otherwise they would simply deny the fact that Slavs(eastern tribes called Antes or Anti) ever existed... ). There still exist old theory of Slavs which rather ignores the newest genetic and archeological indications on this territory and keeps going with its claims about some "major slavic invasion in 6th century". With other words; the R1a haplogroup belonged to the Slavic branch of the Antes (according to Jordanes), when I2a1b belonged to the Sclaveni or Vens (another branch of Venetic Slavs according to Jordanes). The recent migration of men (women did not migrate) from territories of curren Ukraine could explain the theory that Antes looked for brides in current territories of Slovenia. Language was not a major problem, that's why there were never found any indications of some major revolts or wars.

since you know the story of Slovenia, can you tell me who are the Carantani and where are they from? before we mix Avars and rest.
 
Scythian just means "archer"... it's a word based on the same IE root as the word "Shooter".

Sarmatians were an Iranic-speaking people. The letter "S" in those languages tends to transform into "H",
so, these people could have also been called Hauromatae ( Hrvati, Croats ) or Saurovatae ( Srbi, Serbs ), or later Carantae ( Carantanians, Slovenes ).

Which could be an ancient Thracian ( and later Greek ) word for a people who live behind the Rocky ( Karpe ) mountains ( Carpathians / Carbhatians ).
Thracian language's closest relatives are Iranian languages.

http ://en .wikipedia .org/wiki/Indo-European_sound_laws
 
Scythia was a geographical term, multi ethnic society; which included also eastern Slavs, Avars, Hungarians, Iranians, Osetians,... Besides almost all Greek transliterations (transmutations) for Scythians can be easily explained through Slovene language; for example Skolotoi (as being 'scythians') according to Herodotus. The transmutation went from Sokolotoi or Sokoloti or Sokoli (Falcons; as was rather their symbol. In old times Hyperborean tribes wore names of birds; just like Ghauls (Celts); Ghaul means Gull (seaGull), Kelt (Golt); Gut; Gallus (rooster in italian); Glagolica; Glas, Golos, Galeb (the Lingual container is GL) which means a "throat", "voice" (a bird)... गल (gala), गलक (galaka),... people who "speak" (like birds).

Amazon was simply Amožena or Omoženka or "masculine woman" (A transmuted into O; as happened also with "Agni" which transmuted into O; Ogenj or I; "ignite"; Agnistaha as Ognjišče (fireplace). Women who were equal to men... (this is the next answer want to answer to your question "who were Carantanians" (as a society)..., where woman was equal to man. This Democratic law was called Rota (the word remained in Slovene as porota (po = "after") or "Jury" on a court (otherwise it was called Institutio Sclavenica (Slovenika) lex(law); note that from Sclavens (Skolotoi-Veni) came "Sloveni").

http://voices.yahoo.com/carantanian-tribal-society-lived-democratic-principles-1906.html

slovenian_cleveland_thomas_jefferson.jpg
 
""Scythian just means "archer"... it's a word based on the same IE root as the word "Shooter".""
In Ossetic it is
æhSgutæ = archers, shooters compare with Ishkuza(Assyrian), and Scythes(Greek)
æhSæg = arher, shooter compare with Sakae
 
Scythian just means "archer"... it's a word based on the same IE root as the word "Shooter".

Sarmatians were an Iranic-speaking people. The letter "S" in those languages tends to transform into "H",
so, these people could have also been called Hauromatae ( Hrvati, Croats ) or Saurovatae ( Srbi, Serbs ), or later Carantae ( Carantanians, Slovenes ).

Which could be an ancient Thracian ( and later Greek ) word for a people who live behind the Rocky ( Karpe ) mountains ( Carpathians / Carbhatians ).
Thracian language's closest relatives are Iranian languages.

http ://en .wikipedia .org/wiki/Indo-European_sound_laws


you seem to have good knowledge on these things.

allot of Indo European words which startwith the letter s turn into an h in the Middle Iranic period, to which Sarmatian , Parthian(descend of Median with Scythian admixture) Sassanid( descend of Achamaenid/Old Persian), belonged.
Since Sarmatians are an Middle Iranic linguistic group, their Iranic name is Hauromatae and this is why the Iranic name of Croats starts with H (Hrvat) translated into old Iranic it would have been Srvat. Ironically if I am not wrong Srvat is the Kurdish word for Serbs. Which brings me to the conclusion the names Croat and Serb might have the same root.

In the new Iranic period, to which Kurdish (descend of Parthian), Farsi(descend of Sassanid era Persian), Ossetian (descend of Alanian Saramatic) and Pashto(descend of Bakthrian?) belong, the letter H which previously was a shift from S turns into an X.

Some examples. This is why Kurdish Xwishk, Persian Xahar, Pashto Xor and Ossetian Xo would be backshifted into old Iranic "swishk", "Sahar", "Sor" and "So" which mean "sister" in English and schwester in German.

Sanskrit on the other hand preserved the S and had allot less loudshifts. This can be simply explained with the fact that Sanskrit is seen as the language of holy religion among Indo_Aryans.
 
Very interesting about the Kurdish word for Serbs!
I think both groups names stem from the same old IE / Iranian root, despite these two peoples being at love and war in the last ~70 years,
they come from the same source, possibly an Iranian horsemen elite which got assimilated into Slavs.
 
Scythian just means "archer"... it's a word based on the same IE root as the word "Shooter".

Sarmatians were an Iranic-speaking people. The letter "S" in those languages tends to transform into "H",
so, these people could have also been called Hauromatae ( Hrvati, Croats ) or Saurovatae ( Srbi, Serbs ), or later Carantae ( Carantanians, Slovenes ).

Which could be an ancient Thracian ( and later Greek ) word for a people who live behind the Rocky ( Karpe ) mountains ( Carpathians / Carbhatians ).
Thracian language's closest relatives are Iranian languages.

http ://en .wikipedia .org/wiki/Indo-European_sound_laws
Ok, so Thracians spoke Iranian or very similar, as the local substratum before Serbs and Croat arrival. Then Serbs and Croats came as Iranians, and yet they all speak Slavic, at least from 10th century. How can you explain that?
 
"
Sarmatians were an Iranic-speaking people. The letter "S" in those languages tends to transform into "H",
so, these people could have also been called Hauromatae ( Hrvati, Croats ) or Saurovatae ( Srbi, Serbs ), or later Carantae ( Carantanians, Slovenes )."

Yeah another pro-Serbian nationalist... Serbs were never called Slovenes. There lived Croatian, Slovenian and Slovak tribes in Carantania but the official language was Slovene. Those are Freising manuscripts from 10th century. The language is not called Serbian, Sarmatian, but Slovenian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freising_manuscripts

640px-Freising_manuscript.jpg
 
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Carantes derives from the tribe of Gorotani (current name in Slovene for Koroška (Carinthia) or Korotan (another transliteration is Carni, which were probably Celtic tribes ). Slovenes called it "Korotan", which is a transmutation of Korostan or Gorostan... However the term Gora, Kir, Kar,... means "mountain" in many languages, not only in Slavic; including in Kiratas (a mongoloid tribe from Nepal).
Serbs carry mainly I2a-P37.2 haplogroup and non-Indo European (African & Semitic) E1b1b1a2 haplogroup. R1a trace is rather a rarity, which means their ancestors almost didn't mix with eastern Slavs and Scythians (Sarmatians) at all.
 
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Very interesting about the Kurdish word for Serbs!
I think both groups names stem from the same old IE / Iranian root, despite these two peoples being at love and war in the last ~70 years,
they come from the same source, possibly an Iranian horsemen elite which got assimilated into Slavs.

Also considering that the thracian found ( 192.1 ) has only positive marker of the ydna of H ....which is basically from Gedrosia ( eastern persia) and that his admixture seems more "french" would indicate a "persian" entrance into europe via the South East balkan route prior to any scythian/Sarmatian movement from the steppes.

Throw in that cyrillic text has never appeared in slovene and croatian lands in the early times is another indicator of non-steppe people. Clearly one might ask, the term slavic which is purely a linguistic term would be of no value for ancient migrational discussions.

Also, as per karafet recent paper ( 2 months ago), which states that the "father " of the R haplogroup people ( which is P ) formed in modern Malaysia and also that haplogroups G, I, J, T, L and H formed all within 6000 years between modern irak and modern india is another indicator that these haplogroups are "iranic" and must have migrated together into SE Europe and the Caucasus. Question is how much of this great "iranic" haplogroup made there way north to form a later scythian group ( with a late arrival of R ).
Next question is - The croats once stated that they where from modern Iran.................is this theory reviving
 
Scythian just means "archer"... it's a word based on the same IE root as the word "Shooter".

Sarmatians were an Iranic-speaking people. The letter "S" in those languages tends to transform into "H",
so, these people could have also been called Hauromatae ( Hrvati, Croats ) or Saurovatae ( Srbi, Serbs ), or later Carantae ( Carantanians, Slovenes ).

Which could be an ancient Thracian ( and later Greek ) word for a people who live behind the Rocky ( Karpe ) mountains ( Carpathians / Carbhatians ).
Thracian language's closest relatives are Iranian languages.

http ://en .wikipedia .org/wiki/Indo-European_sound_laws

no
sauromates its clear Greek, the name herodotos gave them, means Sauro +eye, means lizzard eye people, so it depends if it is an exonym or an esonym,
as exonym we must accept the description name that Greeks gave them 'lizzard eye people'
as an esonym we must secure that it existed accepted and spoken and try to explain it in their own language before compare it with other languages.
besides their flock is described to be tarando means raindeer, no goat no sheep, raindeer as the Saami people today, and !!!! did not spoke IE but learn it from Scythians !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


BESIDES THERE WAS AN AVAR TRIBE CALLED HRPT
any suggestion about that?
 
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Carantes derives from the tribe of Gorotani (current name in Slovene for Koroška (Carinthia) or Korotan (another transliteration is Carni, which were probably Celtic tribes ). Slovenes called it "Korotan", which is a transmutation of Korostan or Gorostan... However the term Gora, Kir, Kar,... means "mountain" in many languages, not only in Slavic; including in Kiratas (a mongoloid tribe from Nepal).
Serbs carry mainly I2a-P37.2 haplogroup and non-Indo European (African & Semitic) E1b1b1a2 haplogroup. R1a trace is rather a rarity, which means their ancestors almost didn't mix with eastern Slavs and Scythians (Sarmatians) at all.

studied serbs have always indicated that the bulk ( 70% ) of the serbs are ancient thracian triballi tribe ............they have been stating this from early middle-ages to the present . They also state they are "pure" in the sense that the celtic absorption of the illyrian tribes prior to the entrance of the Romans was halted by the Thracian triballi ...........in other words .....a purity of race exists.
Since I haplogroup originated somewhere in modern Iran , then an early neolitihic ( or earlier) entrance into Europe via the balkans is the only scenario
 
you seem to have good knowledge on these things.

allot of Indo European words which startwith the letter s turn into an h in the Middle Iranic period, to which Sarmatian , Parthian(descend of Median with Scythian admixture) Sassanid( descend of Achamaenid/Old Persian), belonged.
Since Sarmatians are an Middle Iranic linguistic group, their Iranic name is Hauromatae and this is why the Iranic name of Croats starts with H (Hrvat) translated into old Iranic it would have been Srvat. Ironically if I am not wrong Srvat is the Kurdish word for Serbs. Which brings me to the conclusion the names Croat and Serb might have the same root.

In the new Iranic period, to which Kurdish (descend of Parthian), Farsi(descend of Sassanid era Persian), Ossetian (descend of Alanian Saramatic) and Pashto(descend of Bakthrian?) belong, the letter H which previously was a shift from S turns into an X.

Some examples. This is why Kurdish Xwishk, Persian Xahar, Pashto Xor and Ossetian Xo would be backshifted into old Iranic "swishk", "Sahar", "Sor" and "So" which mean "sister" in English and schwester in German.

Sanskrit on the other hand preserved the S and had allot less loudshifts. This can be simply explained with the fact that Sanskrit is seen as the language of holy religion among Indo_Aryans.

No,

I gave answer in my above post,
Sarmatians learn IE.
 
Ok, so Thracians spoke Iranian or very similar, as the local substratum before Serbs and Croat arrival. Then Serbs and Croats came as Iranians, and yet they all speak Slavic, at least from 10th century. How can you explain that?

I personally don't believe that Thracians were Indo_Iranian but as I myself wrote in some times earlier, the Thracians were probably the closest you get to Indo_Iranian speakers. And If I am not mistaken, Thracian burials had this typical Iranic mtDNA U2a and HV.

Serbs and Croats are Slavs no doubt but there is definitely an Iranic admixture into it, since both names are Iranic.
 
No,

I gave answer in my above post,
Sarmatians learn IE.


As far as I know Sarmatians are Indo European of the Iranic branch.
 
Carantes derives from the tribe of Gorotani (current name in Slovene for Koroška (Carinthia) or Korotan (another transliteration is Carni, which were probably Celtic tribes ). Slovenes called it "Korotan", which is a transmutation of Korostan or Gorostan... However the term Gora, Kir, Kar,... means "mountain" in many languages, not only in Slavic; including in Kiratas (a mongoloid tribe from Nepal).

Read here.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30052-Iranic-words-in-European-languages?p=435785&viewfull=1#post435785



and here
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...d-in-Kurdistan?p=435779&viewfull=1#post435779
 
Carantes derives from the tribe of Gorotani (current name in Slovene for Koroška (Carinthia) or Korotan (another transliteration is Carni, which were probably Celtic tribes ). Slovenes called it "Korotan", which is a transmutation of Korostan or Gorostan... However the term Gora, Kir, Kar,... means "mountain" in many languages, not only in Slavic; including in Kiratas (a mongoloid tribe from Nepal).
Serbs carry mainly I2a-P37.2 haplogroup and non-Indo European (African & Semitic) E1b1b1a2 haplogroup. R1a trace is rather a rarity, which means their ancestors almost didn't mix with eastern Slavs and Scythians (Sarmatians) at all.

so Carantani Carniola Carnia Carinthia all the same from Gora? or from the same root of Carnios Apollo (meat eater Apollo a minor asian Apollo), or from Turkish Kara Dag dan = Black forest, black hills/mountain,
Besides the Slavic Goranje kor etc as Greek ορος κορυφη (Kur+υβος) is after Summerian Kur mountain
 
As far as I know Sarmatians are Indo European of the Iranic branch.

Herodotos the first who wrote about them, names them sauromates (lizzard eye in pure Greek, or if we use Pelasgian (exist also in Summerian) mat (land field area) then saur(o)landers) neighbors of scythians who breed raindeer (no goat or sheep or horse) and learn IE by scythians (they spoke the scythian language but not as scythians, cause they learn the language from the scythians)
 
Herodotos the first who wrote about them, names them sauromates (lizzard eye in pure Greek, or if we use Pelasgian (exist also in Summerian) mat (land field area) then saur(o)landers) neighbors of scythians who breed raindeer (no goat or sheep or horse) and learn IE by scythians (they spoke the scythian language but not as scythians, cause they learn the language from the scythians)


According to Heredotus and historically they came from further East of Scythia(east of the Caspian). In this area no Uralic people existed. The name Sarmatian might be Greek, but there is no doubt that Sarmatians are Indo Europeans and were not simply language shifters. herding raindeer is no prove for this. In fact raindeer wouldbe breed were there isn't enough alternative.

Also Heredotus did not wrote that they adopted their language from Scythian. Heredotus wrote they are descend of Scythian who mixed with Amazons.
 
According to Heredotus and historically they came from further East of Scythia(east of the Caspian). In this area no Uralic people existed. The name Sarmatian might be Greek, but there is no doubt that Sarmatians are Indo Europeans and were not simply language shifters. herding raindeer is no prove for this. In fact raindeer wouldbe breed were there isn't enough alternative.

Also Heredotus did not wrote that they adopted their language from Scythian. Heredotus wrote they are descend of Scythian who mixed with Amazons.

yes Scythian men Amazon women, but he also says that went away from Scythians following their own culture,

and Strabo places them south of KeltosKythae!!!

BESIDES WE KNOW FROM HISTORY THAT SCYTHIANS MOVED WEST, THEY EVEN CARRY THEIR DEAD TO FIND A PLACE CALLED GERROS Γερρος
surely not Greece but Ger comparing Germ (warm?)
 

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