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Thread: Who were Vandals?

  1. #76
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The major problem in this thread, aside from the fact that it does not talk about Vandal genetics at all, is that many people here are confusing history/archaeology with politics/national mythology. It's all fine and well to say that the Venedi and the Veneti were the same people, as long as you back that up with peer reviewed scientific articles that support your opinion. I see quite a few nationalists here who refuse to provide evidence, and if they do, choose to provide non peer reviewed nationalist sources. Could you please leave your emotions and feelings for a moment while we attempt to discuss a matter that should, as everyone alive today literally has the same connection to these people as human beings are so intensely interrelated, have no bearing on an individual identity or ethnicity?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    All I wanted to see was some aDNA results, as I read a post here that mentioned "Vandal" DNA from sardinia. Was this in fact ancient DNA studied in an academic setting, or rather popular DNA results from living populations? I can find no article referencing aDNA in Sardinia, so my gut is resting on the latter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vigilante777 View Post
    The major problem in this thread, aside from the fact that it does not talk about Vandal genetics at all, is that many people here are confusing history/archaeology with politics/national mythology. It's all fine and well to say that the Venedi and the Veneti were the same people, as long as you back that up with peer reviewed scientific articles that support your opinion. I see quite a few nationalists here who refuse to provide evidence, and if they do, choose to provide non peer reviewed nationalist sources. Could you please leave your emotions and feelings for a moment while we attempt to discuss a matter that should, as everyone alive today literally has the same connection to these people as human beings are so intensely interrelated, have no bearing on an individual identity or ethnicity?
    Vandals where any germans under the Vindili confederation

    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    This is a very old thread. A lot has changed since then.

    The Veneti and the Venedi are not the same people.

    It's impossible to talk about the genetics of either with any specificity because we have no ancient dna samples for them. We have it for the Lombards, so perhaps that's a bit of a clue for all the original "Germanic" tribes.

    See:
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ht=Lombard+dna


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodin View Post
    Hier are some haplogroups from aerias they use to setle. I would please someone to post Haplogroups % for Corsica and Baelarean islands. From this data it looks like most probably they were R1b with maybe some G2a.
    land I1 I2a I2b R1a R1b G2a J N E1b1b T and L Q Poland 6% 9% 1% 56,40% 16,50% 0,50% 2% 0% 3,50% 0% 0% Hungary 8% 15% 2,50% 32,50% 17% 5% 7% 1% 9,50% 1% 1% Algeria 0% 0% 0% 0% 13% 35% 50% Oran (ALG) 0% 0% 0% 1% 10,80% 27,40% 50% Morocco 0% 0% 0% 0% 3,80% 4% 2,40% 0% 85,50% 0% Sicilly 3% 1% 1% 4,50% 30% 5,50% 30,50% 0% 17,50% 6% 1% Sardinia 0% 37% 0% 0% 22% 14,10% 12,50% 0% 10% 1,50% 2% Andaluzia 0% 9,50% 0% 3,50% 58,50% 3% 12,50% 0% 10% 3% 0% Gallaecia 3% 2,50% 1,50% 0% 63% 3% 4,50% 0% 22% 0,50% 0% Tunisia 1% of I 1% 4,50% 3,50% 30% 0% 52% 4% 0%
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...logroups.shtmlCorsica.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodin View Post
    Vandals are somewhat of enigma . Who could gess which haplogroups they were ?
    They could be conected with Przeworsk culture , which maybe belonged to Lugii tribe confederacion , which lidering clans were probably Celtic ( Lug -Celtic god ) . But they could also have German and Baltic elements ( I would exclude Slavic because Slavs do not have maritime tehnology and word for amber - main export article from Baltic sea ) . Very interesting is extinct Balt nation Prussi , who use to burn they deads like Przeworsk , and Veneti probably Balt nation Vindi has very simillar name to Vandals ( same IE roth -love , desire ).Vindic river names are Proto Celtic and simillar to names of rivers in lands of Adriatic Veneti . There was also proposed that Vandals come from Scandinavia : Hallingdal in Norge , Vendel in Swerige and Vendsyssel in Denmark about 120 BC .
    Vandals had two tribes Silingi who use to live in Silesia in west Poland , and Hasdingi ( real name was Aria/ Haria , and they were called Hasdingi because of rulling dinasty) around Vistula.
    Names of tribes could be conected with Slavic words for force/power -SILA , and master/lord - GAZDA/HAZDA .
    Since II century AD they were part of Sarmatian empire, and later they were conected with Alans . II-IV century AD Hasdingi use to live in Panonia on the place where later lived Gepidi . 406 AD they crosing in Galia with Suebes but 20.000 Vandals was kiled by Franks , but then comed Alans alies of Vandals and defeated Franks.Silin 409 they crosed Pirrinei and entered Iberian penincula. Hasdingi setled in Gallaecia , and Silingi in Hispania - Betica ( Andalusia ) .418 Visigots destroyed Hasdingi , and kiled Alan king ( Alans lived in Lusitania , and Carthago Nova ). After that Silingi and Alans conjoined in one nation . 429 they crossing in Africa , in that time Procopius say they numbered 80.000 . In coming years they conquered Numidia , Africa Proconsularis with city Carthage, Sicilly , Sardinia , Corsica , Balearic islands , Byzancena and Tripolitania , using Hunic attacs on Empire .533 Byzantium has conquered they state . Most of them gone to Saladae ( today Bejaia in North Algeria ) and mixed with Berbers . Some escaped in Visigothic and Ostrogothic kingdoms . 5 regiments of Vandalic cavalry was send on Persian border , and rest were moved to Constantinopolis .
    Vandals were from Baltic region of Germany and Poland,you should expect that they were mostly R1b with some others lineages : R1a,I2,G-L140,E-V13,...
    Germanic Invasions.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodin View Post
    Vandals are somewhat of enigma . Who could gess which haplogroups they were ?
    They could be conected with Przeworsk culture , which maybe belonged to Lugii tribe confederacion , which lidering clans were probably Celtic ( Lug -Celtic god ) . But they could also have German and Baltic elements ( I would exclude Slavic because Slavs do not have maritime tehnology and word for amber - main export article from Baltic sea ) . Very interesting is extinct Balt nation Prussi , who use to burn they deads like Przeworsk , and Veneti probably Balt nation Vindi has very simillar name to Vandals ( same IE roth -love , desire ).Vindic river names are Proto Celtic and simillar to names of rivers in lands of Adriatic Veneti . There was also proposed that Vandals come from Scandinavia : Hallingdal in Norge , Vendel in Swerige and Vendsyssel in Denmark about 120 BC .
    Vandals had two tribes Silingi who use to live in Silesia in west Poland , and Hasdingi ( real name was Aria/ Haria , and they were called Hasdingi because of rulling dinasty) around Vistula.
    Names of tribes could be conected with Slavic words for force/power -SILA , and master/lord - GAZDA/HAZDA .
    Since II century AD they were part of Sarmatian empire, and later they were conected with Alans . II-IV century AD Hasdingi use to live in Panonia on the place where later lived Gepidi . 406 AD they crosing in Galia with Suebes but 20.000 Vandals was kiled by Franks , but then comed Alans alies of Vandals and defeated Franks.Silin 409 they crosed Pirrinei and entered Iberian penincula. Hasdingi setled in Gallaecia , and Silingi in Hispania - Betica ( Andalusia ) .418 Visigots destroyed Hasdingi , and kiled Alan king ( Alans lived in Lusitania , and Carthago Nova ). After that Silingi and Alans conjoined in one nation . 429 they crossing in Africa , in that time Procopius say they numbered 80.000 . In coming years they conquered Numidia , Africa Proconsularis with city Carthage, Sicilly , Sardinia , Corsica , Balearic islands , Byzancena and Tripolitania , using Hunic attacs on Empire .533 Byzantium has conquered they state . Most of them gone to Saladae ( today Bejaia in North Algeria ) and mixed with Berbers . Some escaped in Visigothic and Ostrogothic kingdoms . 5 regiments of Vandalic cavalry was send on Persian border , and rest were moved to Constantinopolis .
    The Vandals, Alans and Sueves

    Sizeable numbers of all three of these groups were displaced by the Huns, and travelled down the North Bank of the Danube to escape them. After battling with the Franks, who controlled the northern Rhine regions, they were able to walk across the river Rhine when it froze in the cold winter of 406-7, and invade Gaul. They moved South, and in 409 moved into Spain, where they tried to settle but were dislodged by the Visigoths.
    In 429, the Vandals moved on to North Africa, in part of the complicated political manoeuvring of the dying Roman empire, when different groups would be promised lands in return for military aid to different court factions. They were at the gates of Hippo as its bishop, Augustine, was dying.
    https://www.animatedmaps.div.ed.ac.u...movements.html

    vandals.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodin View Post
    Vandals are somewhat of enigma . Who could gess which haplogroups they were ?
    They could be conected with Przeworsk culture , which maybe belonged to Lugii tribe confederacion , which lidering clans were probably Celtic ( Lug -Celtic god ) . But they could also have German and Baltic elements ( I would exclude Slavic because Slavs do not have maritime tehnology and word for amber - main export article from Baltic sea ) . Very interesting is extinct Balt nation Prussi , who use to burn they deads like Przeworsk , and Veneti probably Balt nation Vindi has very simillar name to Vandals ( same IE roth -love , desire ).Vindic river names are Proto Celtic and simillar to names of rivers in lands of Adriatic Veneti . There was also proposed that Vandals come from Scandinavia : Hallingdal in Norge , Vendel in Swerige and Vendsyssel in Denmark about 120 BC .
    Vandals had two tribes Silingi who use to live in Silesia in west Poland , and Hasdingi ( real name was Aria/ Haria , and they were called Hasdingi because of rulling dinasty) around Vistula.
    Names of tribes could be conected with Slavic words for force/power -SILA , and master/lord - GAZDA/HAZDA .
    Since II century AD they were part of Sarmatian empire, and later they were conected with Alans . II-IV century AD Hasdingi use to live in Panonia on the place where later lived Gepidi . 406 AD they crosing in Galia with Suebes but 20.000 Vandals was kiled by Franks , but then comed Alans alies of Vandals and defeated Franks.Silin 409 they crosed Pirrinei and entered Iberian penincula. Hasdingi setled in Gallaecia , and Silingi in Hispania - Betica ( Andalusia ) .418 Visigots destroyed Hasdingi , and kiled Alan king ( Alans lived in Lusitania , and Carthago Nova ). After that Silingi and Alans conjoined in one nation . 429 they crossing in Africa , in that time Procopius say they numbered 80.000 . In coming years they conquered Numidia , Africa Proconsularis with city Carthage, Sicilly , Sardinia , Corsica , Balearic islands , Byzancena and Tripolitania , using Hunic attacs on Empire .533 Byzantium has conquered they state . Most of them gone to Saladae ( today Bejaia in North Algeria ) and mixed with Berbers . Some escaped in Visigothic and Ostrogothic kingdoms . 5 regiments of Vandalic cavalry was send on Persian border , and rest were moved to Constantinopolis .
    https://www.animatedmaps.div.ed.ac.u...movements.html
    vandals.jpg

  9. #84
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    More infos on haplogroups would be nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauteville View Post
    Which sources you have?The Vandals were the only Germanic people who counquered Sardinia and in the island there is zero Slav and Baltic dna but a small percentage of Germanic haplogroups yes.
    Actually Ostrogoths occupied Sardinia for one year during the Gothic War

    Apparently there is little Germanic admixture in Sardinia (2% average), using DEU Ostrogoths as a source. However those samples are almost pure Germanic (more than 50% Yamnaya), i believe that when the Vandals arrived in Sardinia they were mixed with Central Europeans and possibly Iberians and North Africans, so their contribute to Sardinian genetics could be actually higher than 2%




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    Another model adding the Alans from Russia, who accompanied the Vandals in their migrations. My bet is that the Vandals of the V century were as mixed as the Rome Imperial samples, probably the Germanic element was minoritarian infact they did not left much traces culturally, they were highly romanaized

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    Vandals / Vandili were not a single tribe - it is a collective name for all East Germanic peoples, including also the Goths.
    There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.

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