Scythian/Sarmatian DNA, your thoughts.

I haven't post in a few years. I was under impression, due to suggestions from other members of this forum, that my YDNA was Sarmatian, because it is R-Z93, since then I've tested Big Y at FTDNA and I am R-Z93>YP5585>YP5578>BY30053>Y28816>YP5905>YP27595.

Let's disregard all after YP5578, as I know from research and YFULL when and even who was the original "bearer of that SNP.

I want to concentrate on YP5585 and YP5578.

YP5578 is unique. It virtually stands alone as to origin and time of appearance, being in the north of England (Northumbria at the time) and about the time of the returning crusaders. It also appears at the time when English castles were being rebuilt from mud, wattle and timber affairs on motte and baileys to stone castles and English steel was upgraded from the crude steel the crusaders used to the high quality of Damascus steel. And the area in which the DNA was originally centered is also a rich iron ore bearing area called Cleveland (Clifflands) in Yorkshire.

So far there are 20 men, most who have the same surname or a variation, who have tested YP5578, all have an ancestral origin in the north of England (Dane and Angle Northumbria, modern Yorkshire).

Now the kicker. There is also an Indian (subcontinent) whose DNA is YP5585. We know that the Scythians swept into the Indus Valley, the so called Aryan Invasion, and left their DNA in what is now the Brahim class, and of course converts to Islam especially in Pakistan, but I do not have an inkling as to their subclades, and subclades are important. R-Z93 is too broad, covers too much territory, too many peoples.

I have arrived at a tentative conclusion that my first English ancestor was actually a Christian Dhimmi, perhaps an expert in forging Damascus steel (the late 13th, 14th and 15th century spelling of the name was Ferror, a ferror is a maker of iron, as opposed to a smith who works iron.

He was a descendant of an Indian, who was taken captive during the Arab conquest of the Indus Valley in the 8th Century, he survived the trek over the mountains named for them, Hindu Slaughter or Hindu Kush, and was sold in a slave market, perhaps in Damascus.

As a kufr, unbeliever or infidel, and not a Peoples of the Book (Christian or Jew) he would have been given a choice to say the Shahada or die, however he was also a valuable commodity and one does not waste their property or investment, so Hindu slaves, during the reign of the Umayyad caliphate which considered Islam to be an Arab only religion, allowed or persuaded their Hindu and pagan slaves to Christianity. Conversion to Judaism required instruction and cooperation of Rabbi's, not forthcoming. Christianity required only baptism by a priest.

Life as a Christian under Islam meant living as a second class citizen and paying a poll tax (jizzyah).

Thus when the Crusaders appeared and marveled at the technology and techniques of the old Greco Persian empire as inherited by the Arabs, they were like kids in a candy shop. Enamored of their masons and forgers of steel, they wasted little time in convincing these dhimmi's to return with them to England, and the skilled dhimmi's, saw relief from paying jizzyah and living as second class citizen and eagerly boarded crusader ships for transport to Europe and England.

The transformation of Europe and England and it's climb out of the dark ages actually started with the Crusades, when the encountered the philosophy, science, technology and techniques of the old Greco Roman Persian empire as brought together and synthesized by the Arabs.

The Arabs who themselves were amazed and enthralled by the philosophy, technology, skill, medicine of the Greeks, Romans and Persians who they conquered and very much like the Christians later, were like kids in a candy shop, absorbing everything new that they found, and taking it one step further by amalgamating all, improving and enhancing such as the mathematics of al Jabr which bears his name today in albebra.

Too bad it has gone backwards in the modern era, but the same retrograde, conservative tendency is apparent in Christianity and Judaism as so called fundamentalism or fear or discomfort with modernity and progress is on the uptick. But I wander afield as I always do.

Point is that a "son" of R-Z93 apparently landed in England between 1000 and 800 ybp, by the circuitous route of India and Damascus. At least that is the idea for now.
 
thracian samples
Sample P192-1 was found at the site of a pit sanctuary near Svilengrad, Bulgaria, excavated between 2004 and 2006. The pits are associated with the Thracian culture and date to the Early Iron Age (800–500 BC) based on pottery found in the pits. A total of 67 ritual pits, including 16 pits containing human skeletons or parts of skeletons, were explored during the excavations. An upper wisdom tooth from an adult male was used for DNA analysis......belonged to haplogroup E1b1b1a1b-Z1919........mtdna U3b

Sample T2G2 was found in a Thracian tumulus (burial mound) near the village of Stambolovo, Bulgaria. Two small tumuli dating to the Early Iron Age (850–700 BC) were excavated in 2008. A canine tooth from an inhumation burial of a child (c.12 years old) inside a dolium was used for DNA analysis......belonged to R1b-Z2103.
Sample V2 was found in a flat cemetery dating to the Late Bronze Age (1500–1100 BC) near the village of Vratitsa, Bulgaria. Nine inhumation burials were excavated between 2003 and 2004. A molar from a juvenile male (age 16–17) was used for DNA analysis.
Sample K8 was found in the Yakimova Mogila Tumulus, which dates to the Iron Age (450–400 BC), near Krushare, Bulgaria. An aristocratic inhumation burial containing rich grave goods was excavated in 2008. A molar from one individual, probably male, was used for DNA analysis......belonged to J2-Z7402

And your point being? This doesn't negate what I said. There was also a R1a-Z93 sample discovered in a Thracian from Bulgaria. Additionally, the 2 Cimmmerians tested in a recent paper were Q and R1b-Z2103(if I am not mistaken). Which furthers my point that Cimmerians were not I2a1b-Din.
 

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