Poll: What will Ötzi's Y-DNA haplogroup be?

What will Ötzi's Y-DNA haplogroup be?

  • F

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I2b-ADR

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I2c

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I2*

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • J1

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • J2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • L

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • N1c1

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Q

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • R1a

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • R1b L11-

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • T

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    23
Sorry, no. We have been there before. The "Raeti" probably were not a homogenous group (the term "Raeti" is very likely to be an exonym!), and the "Raeti" language found in the so-called "Raetic" inscriptions was a language related with Etruscan. The Etruscans were not native to Europe. Whatever language Ötzi spoke, it was unrelated to any of the languages spoken there later.

As I stated before, the etruscans arrived around 800-900 BC , the raeti ( or whatever they where called then ) where already there in the alps, they spoke a language, it was not etruscan and I do not know what it was, ......I call it raeti because it was raeti lands in the bronze age.
If you can advise me on what was the true language at the time of Otzi, then we can move on. But he did not speak any kind of etruscan , and I am not saying that you said this.
 
As I stated before, the etruscans arrived around 800-900 BC , the raeti ( or whatever they where called then ) where already there in the alps, they spoke a language, it was not etruscan and I do not know what it was, ......I call it raeti because it was raeti lands in the bronze age.
If you can advise me on what was the true language at the time of Otzi, then we can move on. But he did not speak any kind of etruscan , and I am not saying that you said this.

What I'm trying to say is that the "Raeti" are an artificial, heterogenous grouping:

- The Lepontii were a Celtic people.
- The Vindelici were inconsistely also listed as Raetians (by some authors) and they too were Celtic.
- Some of the tribes (Breuni, Genaunes) are considered Illyrians.

If you look at this, you can quickly get the question of who the "real" Raetians were. In any case I think that any of the languages spoken in the area in the 1st century BC were unrelated to whatever language Ötzi spoke 3000 years earlier.
 
Ötzi's Y-DNA and other ancient DNA results this year are all confirming several of my theories. I wrote 2 years ago that G2a came to Europe in several waves :

- a first one with Neolithic goat and cattle herders from the Caucasus and Anatolia
- a second one with the diffusion of metallurgy.
- a third one (G2a3b1a) came alongside R1b1b2a1 with the Indo-European migrations during the Bronze Age

I wrote in February 2010 that G2a was linked to the diffusion of goat and sheep herding in the Neolithic via the Cardium Pottery culture. This was confirmed in May 2011 by Lacan et al. (Neolithic G2a in Treilles, France).

In the same thread in February 2010, I wrote that G2a3b1a (the most common subclade of G in Europe) came to Europe with R1b1b2a during the Bronze Age. So far, no R1b1b2a or G2a3b1a has been found in any Neolithic or Copper Age site, which also confirms this theory.

Ötzi confirms that G2a was indeed linked to early metallurgy, as I thought, but that the Copper Age cultures of Old Europe were not related to the latter wave of G2a3b1a and R1b1b2a.

Ötzi's G2a4 is very rare in Europe nowadays, and his mtDNA K1ö is all but extinct. Other Neolithic mtDNA samples revealed a much higher prevalence of haplogroup N1a and X2 (Neolithic Germany and France) than in the modern population. Both of these haplogroups are now found especially around the Caucasus, where Y-haplogroup G2a is also the most prevalent. This confirms a strong genetic discontinuity between Neolithic/Chalcolithic Europeans and modern Europeans. So much is necessary to explain that R1b1b2a arrived quite late (Bronze Age) in Europe and replaced most of the older population.
 
This is what I wrote on the 22 July 2011

otzi is mtdna of K10 and his dna is as you said G2a. This is because he was found in the middle of the Raeti/Rhaeti tribes of Venostes and Vennonete who resided in the modern region of Veneto in the alps.
The raeti are , when I read infomation once, 64% G2a


I wouldn't try to link Ötzi to any modern population. Even if there still parts of the Alps with a high percentage of G2a, there is no evidence that most or even any of it is G2a4. If it is G2a3b1, then it has absolutely nothing to do with Ötzi. Being from a Danubian Copper Age culture, I expect Ötzi's descendants, if any, to be found in isolated mountainous areas close to the Danube (meaning in the northern part of the Alps or in the Carpathians).
 
Thanks Sparkey, Maciamo and others, it was fun to investigate, guess and see there results coming. I wish we had more Otzis.
 
I have closed the poll now that we have the confirmation that Ötzi was G2a. Congrats to the 50% of you who guessed correctly like me. Only 18% of the visitors on Dienekes' blog chose haplogroup G (out of 502 people !). Not many people guessed right on DNA-forums.org either.

I guessed G in all three places. :grin:

Is there any way to automate reputation points for the "winners" by the way, Maciamo? Otherwise I'm just going to give the winners +rep on some of my favorite posts of theirs once G2a4 is reconfirmed in an official release.
 
I have closed the poll now that we have the confirmation that Ötzi was G2a. Congrats to the 50% of you who guessed correctly like me. Only 18% of the visitors on Dienekes' blog chose haplogroup G (out of 502 people !). Not many people guessed right on DNA-forums.org either.

So to scientifically prove which genetic anthropology community has the biggest brains and greatest psychic powers, I tallied the number of correct and incorrect answers from DNA Forums and Forum Biodiversity as well. I was generous and gave it to all the people who said "I2 or G2" or similar. The results:

DNA Forums
Correct: 6 out of 20, or 30%
Incorrect answers:
E1b: 1
G1: 1
I1: 1
I2b-ADR: 1
J2: 1
L: 1
R1a: 1
R1b: 6
R2: 1

Forum Biodiversity:
Correct: 4 out of 13, or 31%
Incorrect answers:
G1: 1
G2a3: 1
I: 1
I1: 1
I2c: 1
R1b: 3
T: 1

The final rankings:
1. Eupedia, 52%
2. Forum Biodiversity, 31%
3. DNA Forums, 30%
4. Dienekes Blog, 18%
 
I guessed G in all three places. :grin:

Is there any way to automate reputation points for the "winners" by the way, Maciamo? Otherwise I'm just going to give the winners +rep on some of my favorite posts of theirs once G2a4 is reconfirmed in an official release.

There is no automatic way to give rep points for choosing the right answer at a poll. You will have to give rep points to each member one by one. I will do it too.
 
I wouldn't try to link Ötzi to any modern population. Even if there still parts of the Alps with a high percentage of G2a, there is no evidence that most or even any of it is G2a4. If it is G2a3b1, then it has absolutely nothing to do with Ötzi. Being from a Danubian Copper Age culture, I expect Ötzi's descendants, if any, to be found in isolated mountainous areas close to the Danube (meaning in the northern part of the Alps or in the Carpathians).

Well, according to the video announcing the y dna result, it seems they spent a good amount of time looking in the SudTirol, so perhaps they did find something, although given the rarity of G2a4 (at least so far) it is probably a long shot. In the current results, there seem to be a few British men, a family group in Baden-Wurttemberg, a few in Italy, and a few from Morocco, who may be Sephardis. None in eastern Europe or the Balkans, although I will grant that they are not highly tested areas. However, there does seem to be a Mediterranean look to it. The researcher specifically, for example, mentioned Sardinia.

Given that one of the first copper mines in Europe was in Liguria (an area high in G), Otzi's culture is connected to the Remedello culture, and the ore for his ax came from Tuscany, I hope they also tested in those areas.

As far as autosomal dna is concerned, I hope that they looked in the Passeiertal Valley in the Sud-Tirol. This man is, I think, a dead ringer for Otzi, except for the red hair. (That might come from the Bavarian populations that later moved into that valley.)
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/82092554/Hulton-Archive

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...225-otzi-iceman-new-face-science-mummy-oetzi/
 
Well, according to the video announcing the y dna result, it seems they spent a good amount of time looking in the SudTirol, so perhaps they did find something, although given the rarity of G2a4 (at least so far) it is probably a long shot. In the current results, there seem to be a few British men, a family group in Baden-Wurttemberg, a few in Italy, and a few from Morocco, who may be Sephardis. None in eastern Europe or the Balkans, although I will grant that they are not highly tested areas. However, there does seem to be a Mediterranean look to it. The researcher specifically, for example, mentioned Sardinia.

Given that one of the first copper mines in Europe was in Liguria (an area high in G), Otzi's culture is connected to the Remedello culture, and the ore for his ax came from Tuscany, I hope they also tested in those areas.

As far as autosomal dna is concerned, I hope that they looked in the Passeiertal Valley in the Sud-Tirol. This man is, I think, a dead ringer for Otzi, except for the red hair. (That might come from the Bavarian populations that later moved into that valley.)
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/82092554/Hulton-Archive

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...225-otzi-iceman-new-face-science-mummy-oetzi/

well, they could have done a dna on the Ladini people in the alps of Veneto ( which is very close to where otzi was found ) and found these Ladini have 75% of g2a

Sometimes, it makes you think what government involvements are there that prevents certain things being revealed!!
 
otzi on haplogroup G2a branch L91
 
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I am Spanish, and my haplogroup is G, it is not very common here, I read that this was the same haplogroup as Otzi. I recently created a post about my DNA testing, you are all invited :)
 
1423178656_830079_1423179182_sumario_grande.jpg

I was searching on another topic and found this information. Ötzi tattoos. I have been struck by parallel horizontal lines because because I started drawing with a pen in my own hand when I was a teenager, specifically, I usually paint two lines in parallel and sometimes I had also painted them on some slate. And one of my matches, a U.S.A. woman by mitochondrial DNA; we have in the friends section but we have never had, curious, the fact is that once on his facebook cover he had two parallel vertical stripes.
 
1423178656_830079_1423179182_sumario_grande.jpg

I was searching on another topic and found this information. Ötzi tattoos. I have been struck by parallel horizontal lines because because I started drawing with a pen in my own hand when I was a teenager, specifically, I usually paint two lines in parallel and sometimes I had also painted them on some slate. And one of my matches, a U.S.A. woman by mitochondrial DNA; we have in the friends section but we have never had, curious, the fact is that once on his facebook cover he had two parallel vertical stripes.

Ötzi’s Tattoos were meant to be therapeutic, not decorative. I Doubt that he made them Himself.
He must have gone to the Witch-Doctor :petrified:

Many of his tattoos are located where there are signs of arthritis, old injuries, and holistic acupuncture points.

I saw it on TV, lol :)
a similar link:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/61-tattoos-otzi-5300-year-old-iceman-180954035/

Q-Matching with Ötzi the Iceman:

arnCA9r.jpg
 
To Salento:


OTZIwhitmekitsmall.JPEG


Largest segment = 7.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 7.5 cM (0.208 Pct)
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.5

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

144753 SNPs used for this comparison.

42.470 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 14.833 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.035 cpu seconds.

Ver: Aug 17 2019 0019

The first time I put those lines on the side of my hand towards the body I was abstracted in a class, which is said daydreaming but I don't remember what; I think I remember that it was in English class, I took the pen and painted two parallel lines, then I continued doing it for a long time. I believe that it is an internal symbol or code that could mean the reaffirmation of the individual in front of the world or even in front of the universe, to be aware of himself in a world with day and night, with wild beasts and ostilities being aware of our own individuality in the face of all that challenging him while facing all of it. Perhaps two stripes is a man without children and with more stripes a man with responsibilities, children, family, tribe.
 
To Salento:


OTZIwhitmekitsmall.JPEG


Largest segment = 7.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 7.5 cM (0.208 Pct)
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.5

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

144753 SNPs used for this comparison.

42.470 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 14.833 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.035 cpu seconds.

Ver: Aug 17 2019 0019

The first time I put those lines on the side of my hand towards the body I was abstracted in a class, which is said daydreaming but I don't remember what; I think I remember that it was in English class, I took the pen and painted two parallel lines, then I continued doing it for a long time. I believe that it is an internal symbol or code that could mean the reaffirmation of the individual in front of the world or even in front of the universe, to be aware of himself in a world with day and night, with wild beasts and ostilities being aware of our own individuality in the face of all that challenging him while facing all of it. Perhaps two stripes is a man without children and with more stripes a man with responsibilities, children, family, tribe.

Ötzi would’ve been entertained by your analysis.

:unsure: My Deep Thoughts are way Shallower than yours :)
 
Primeros%2BV%25C3%25ADdeos%252Bfotos%2B090.jpg


Very good, but ...
 

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