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Thread: Autosomal map : Mediterranean admixture (from Dodecad)

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanp View Post
    Ashkenazim are genetically a mixed population of Levant/Anatolian originated genetic profile later mixed with Greco-Romance which shows them plotting with South-Eastern European groups (Greeks, Sicilians, etc.)

    Ashkenazim are also highly inbreed due to lack of recent gene flow from other groups so their genetic is drifted from both Europeans and Middle Easterners.

    Yeah, in this map above their plot is a bit more isolated than Greeks, Italians (afaik in that study they are from the Southern mainland and from Sicily).
    Sicilians and mainlander Southern Italian phenotype galleries.

    http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/1111/Re-Groups-of-Sicilians
    http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/375/Southern-italians-how-we-really-look

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Englander View Post
    The real question is how much has the genetic drift effected the plotting position, and overall Genetic results. I think that the Levantine Greek hybrid population moved into Central and Northern Europe, and interbred with BOTH Slavic/Germanic as well as Middle Eastern immigrants. Than they ended up isolating themselves after the population was somewhat diverse.
    The North European ancestry in Ashkenazi Jews are quite low, Ashkenazim are basically the same as Sephardi Jews with 10-15% more extra European. As far as i know they didn't mix with any recent ME populations except some Ashkenazi who mixed with Bukharian/Caucasian Jews in Russia.

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    JoeyD, SeanP

    This is one of the best threads on here about Ashkenazi genetics. The study fails to conclude how the Ashkenazim genome came to be and we desparately need ancient samples for comparison , but it's interesting noneoftheless.

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...azim-Xue-et-al

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    ^ Thanks for the link.

    Interesting post from oreo cookie:

    This right here is why people assume that Ashkenazim have Italian DNA. Because Sicilians and Ashkenazim on PCA plots, are both roughly halfway between North Italians and modern day Levantines, people say "well, Ashkenazim are Levantine on the male side, North Italian on the female side, and thus plot like Sicilians when you mix it all up." But Sicilians have very low IBD sharing with the Levant, which implies that West Asian input into Sicily occurred in the Bronze Age rather than from Phoenicians or anything more recent, and that the Sikels, Sicanians, and Elymians at the time of contact with Phoenicians had already been genetically shifted toward West Asia.

    At this point, Ashkenazim would not have existed... they'd still be Israelites. My guess is that ancient Israelites were probably closer to Druze than to Lebanese Arabs or Palestinians, and thus we should look at Druze or Cypriots as a good proxy, which means that you'd need closer to 1/3 South European admixture, not 1/2, to explain European Jews' plotting today. They only land in Sicily because Sicilians have enough West Asian affinity that they drift away from the core European cluster, it's not due to any directly shared ancestry. The same would be true of Cretans, who also are very close to Ashkenazim autosomally.

    IBD sharing, above all, reflects how recent the exchange took place. Sicilians DO have high IBD sharing with Maghrebi people, implying that the North African input into the population is more recent. I am unclear if Ashkenazim have the same.

    Not that this is scientific, but I have seen a few Druze results on GEDmatch and compared to Lebanese Arabs, they shift toward Iberia, Sardinia, etc. and their overall closest population is Cyprus.
    Misseri e sceccu cu tuttâ tistera
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  5. #130
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    Sicilians DO have high IBD sharing with Maghrebi people, implying that the North African input into the population is more recent.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1260717827

    "HIgh IBD between NW Africa and Italy
    South Italy(inclu. Sardinia) gets extremly high IBD with NW Africa, suggesting NW African ancestry.
    Although other Italians also get much higher IBD with NW Africa than with West Asia, much of it is .25+
    If anything this points towards European ancestry in NW Africa."

    Calabrians, Lucanians and Sardinians get also similar amount of IBD share with NW Africans and those lands were not under muslim invasion. It's more logic to think that most of the IBD sharing has to do with the Roman colonization to NW Africa and many Sicilian muslims expelled to modern Tunisia rather than the opposite. Otherwise the sharing must be limitated only for Sicily.

    But Sicilians have very low IBD sharing with the Levant, which implies that West Asian input into Sicily occurred in the Bronze Age rather than from Phoenicians or anything more recent, and that the Sikels, Sicanians, and Elymians at the time of contact with Phoenicians had already been genetically shifted toward West Asia
    The West Asian shift is not again only exclusivity of Sicily but also for the rest of South Italy, impossible to calculate an important Phoenician contribution in our gene-pool since they came here only for commercial purposes and only in two isolated and coastal emporiums in an ocean of Siculi, Sicani, Elimi, Morgeti and Greek and later Roman colonizers. And these last made an ethnic cleansing of Punic ethnicity from all over the Western Mediterranean after the three Punic wars.

    Bronze age introgression waves seems to be confermated by the last genetic studies by the way as well as older times (neolithic):

    However, the estimated age for Sicilian and Southern-Italian J1 haplotypes refers to the end of the Bronze Age (32611345 YBP), thus suggesting more ancient contributions from the East.
    However, sub-lineages of haplogroup J2 have been also associated with the Neolithic colonization of mainland Greece, Crete and Southern Italy [52], and our TMRCA estimates for J2-subhaplogroups (ranging from 32711157 YBP to 37671332 YBP) cannot exclude an earlier arrival of at least some of the J2 chromosomes in Sicily and Southern-Italy during Neolithic times.
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0096074

  6. #131
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    Mine Dodecad V3:
    # Population Percent
    1 Mediterranean 31.55
    2 West_European 27.34
    3 West_Asian 18
    4 East_European 13.56
    5 Southwest_Asian 8.48
    6 Northwest_African 0.52
    7 Southeast_Asian 0.42
    8 Northeast_Asian 0.12
    I think that the Mediterranean admixture is a little bit exaggerated in Macedonia.
    Hardly any ethnic Macedonian have over 40 percent Mediterranean admixture.
    As you can see, mine is 31.55!

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    Decode v3
    East euro 12.49
    West euro 35.94
    Mediterranean 28.76
    West asian 14.68
    South asian. 90
    Northeast asian 0.30
    Southwest Asian 4.79
    Northwest african 2.13
    Sicilian Croatian Slovenian german/french, british/irish

    I guess they are representative?

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    Dodecad V3:

    Population
    East_European 15.42
    West_European 23.31
    Mediterranean 33.03
    Neo_African -
    West_Asian 21.00
    South_Asian 0.85
    Northeast_Asian 0.52
    Southeast_Asian -
    East_African 0.84
    Southwest_Asian 4.73
    Northwest_African 0.20
    Palaeo_African 0.11

    My folks migrated to the Western Thrace region from the Eastern Thrace region of Turkey during the Great Population Exchange of 1922. They only moved about 15 km to the other side of the Evros/Maritsa River.

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    Eurogenes K13:

    Population
    North_Atlantic 19.45
    Baltic 19.80
    West_Med 19.27
    West_Asian 15.01
    East_Med 22.41
    Red_Sea 0.88
    South_Asian 0.67
    East_Asian 0.51
    Siberian 0.33
    Amerindian 0.28
    Oceanian 0.28
    Northeast_African 0.54
    Sub-Saharan 0.57

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    Wouldn't Med just represent Early Neolithic movement into Europe, while the Caucasian/West Asian represent a later migration of similar peoples? And the South Western Asian could be in the last 3,000 years?

    Western European could be a mix old Europe (HG) and Indo European, with HG component being larger, while Eastern Europe having a larger Indo European percentage.

    # Population Percent
    1 Mediterranean 31.37
    2 West_European 24.81
    3 West_Asian 22.11
    4 Southwest_Asian 10.52
    5 East_European 8.11
    6 Northwest_African 1.54
    7 South_Asian 1.15
    8 Neo_African 0.25
    9 Southeast_Asian 0.14

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