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Thread: Autosomal map : West Asian admixture (from Dodecad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    Genetically speaking they are not. All Northern side of Scandinavia and Finland has increased levels of Mongoloid influence. If you don't like, that's another thing. No need to mention Russia, where Mongoloid genes are present in EVERY Russian leaving there, perhaps excepting the ones who border the Baltic countries and near the Southern side.

    You have absolutely no reason, but I know it's a waste of time.

    Good afternoon.
    The so called 'Mongoloid influences' has been in Northern Europe for ever. 1000 years ago and 1000000 years ago! They're NATIVE to all parts of Northern EURASIA!

    You're ignorant! Go to school and get some basic education!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    What're talking about? Sami ARE the most NATIVE and INDIGENOUS inhabitants of Northern Europe! Sami are 100% PURE NORDICS! And they're absolutely NOT Indo-European!
    Wow, where do you come up with these notions!? Any person who understands anything about population genetics is well aware that the Sami have elevated levels of Mongoloid, Siberian influences for the most part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundis View Post
    Wow, where do you come up with these notions!? Any person who understands anything about population genetics is well aware that the Sami have elevated levels of Mongoloid, Siberian influences for the most part.
    Yes, Siberia, Alaska etc. are NORDIC areas too! Nordic areas are not only in Europe!

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    Hello?

    The Section is called General GENETICS. To post childish nonsense and twist all things, there is the Chit-Chat section.

    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Yes, Siberia, Alaska etc. are NORDIC areas too! Nordic is not only in Europe!
    The ancient Siberians were Mongoloid, not Nordic in the Euro sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    Hello?

    The Section is called General GENETICS. To post childish nonsense and twist all things, there is the Chit-Chat section.

    Thank you.
    Like I said:

    What you do consider 'Mongoloid' is actually native North European! Haplogroup N is actually native to North Europe and European Nordics. The European Nordics are actually closer to Finno-Ugric folks than to the orginal proto-Indo-Europeans from West Asia.

    These 2 maps tell million stories and are actually the EVIDENCE that proto-Indo-Europeans came from West Asia, since Finno-Ugric NATIVE Nordic Europeans lack West ASIAN component!

    West Asian admixture:



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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundis View Post
    The ancient Siberians were Mongoloid
    Like the most and only indigenous and officially recognised (as indigenous) inhabitants of Europe's northernmost and the Nordic countries.

    Here's a source for you!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    What're talking about? Sami ARE the most NATIVE and INDIGENOUS inhabitants of Northern Europe! Sami are 100% PURE NORDICS! And they're absolutely NOT Indo-European!
    Please, you might want to look at this autosomal study on Saamis, they have more than double asian than Russians :


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    Please, you might want to look at this autosomal study on Saamis, they have more than double asian than Russians :

    Ok. Thanks. But NORDIC areas are in ASIA too, not only in Europe!

    Sami are the most and only indigenous and officially recognised (as indigenous) inhabitants of Europe's northernmost and the Nordic countries! They're EUROPEAN, like Finns, Basques, Hungarians etc. FACT!

    Here's a source for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people

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    I like these maps very much. These 2 maps combined are actually the EVIDENCE that the proto-Indo-Europeans came from West Asia, since Finno-Ugric NATIVE Nordic European speakers lack West ASIAN component!

    North European component doesn't correlate with the proto-Indo-Europeans!




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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    And the Balts and Slavs, which are possibly the purest Indo-Europeans of all, have even less West Asian (almost 0% for the Lithuanians). This is an undeniable proof that the Indo-Europeans did not originated in West Asia, as people like Dienekes would want you to believe, but in the Pontic-Caspian steppes, as I have always said.
    The Balts and Slavs with their strong Finno-Ugric admixture are most probably one of the least representative Groups for proto-Indo Europeans. The North European component peaks in the Baltic Region while the West Asian component has its origin in Northwest Caucasus. So what is more realistic, that Proto-Indoeuropeans moved from the Baltics into the Steppes or from Northwest Caucasus? I highly doubt that the Proto-Indoeuropeans moved from the Baltics into Pontic-Caspian steppe. However I assume that some West Asian folks whom spread into the Pontic-Caspian steppes came in contact with North European Hunthers and Gatherers and the Proto-Indoeuropeans developed. Central and North Russia might be very low in West Asian admixture but if we look at Ukraine-Southeast Europe, we clearly see that it is very much present and it only goes as far as the kurgan area was located in East Europe. Further North, where there was no trace of Kurgan People, there is also no significant West Asian admixture.

    In my opinion the Proto-Indoeuropeans were Maykop people which moved into the steppes, influenced the hunthers and gatherers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post



    That is because you confuse the appellations based on the modern distribution with the ancient locations of haplogroups. If you were to test 8000 year-old samples of R1b1b people from northern Anatolia (as was done with Ötzi), and ran them in the Dodecad calculator, it is likely that they would turn out to be "West European", even though there was no R1b in Europe at the time. Dienekes labelled the admixture "West European" because that was where it was more commonly found today (in fact he should have called it "North-West European"). There isn't a sequence in the DNA that says "West European" in it ! We call it whatever we want. The point is, this particular admixture was probably found in northern Anatolia a long time ago, but the people migrated, and it is now found most in North-West Europe. You should think this way for every admixture and every haplogroup. It's easier to think only in modern terms, but it is mistaken. Most people think like you, and that is why most people originally thought that R1b was associated with Cro-Magnon, and why many people now think that R1b came with Neolithic farmers. It's not that easy to redraw the map of population movement through the ages in one's mind.
    My speech. Exactly the same can be said about the ANI component which is labeled as "South Asian" because its modern distribution is mainly Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan but this component is closer to West Asian (most probably developed from West Asian) as it is to ASI in which it is clustered together as "South Asian"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    In my opinion the Proto-Indoeuropeans were Maykop people which moved into the steppes, influenced the hunthers and gatherers.
    100% true! Maykop folks were 100% West Asians from SOUTHWest Caucasus (where the modern Georgia is located nowadays) with very much J2 & G2!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    100% true! Maykop folks were 100% West Asians from SOUTHWest Caucasus (where the modern Georgia is located nowadays) with very much J2 & G2!
    Goga cant you one time give an answer without acting like hyperactive. Sometimes I imagine you jumping on your seat all around and going crazy when someone doesent agree with you.

    It is nice that you agree with me, you are welcome to disagree, but when someone disagrees with you than make your arguments in a more calm behave. This is a Forum where people share there knowledge but in almost every of your comments you sound very aggressive. I ask you one more time please stay calm and stop acting like insane otherwise not many people will take you serious.

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    I think what Goga wants to say is, both "Mongoloid-looking" people and "White-Caucasian-looking" people entered Europe at the one or other time. But as Mongoloid-looking people have entered Northern Europe before "Whites" did, people like Saami can be considered as the "true Europeans". It is more from a geographic perspective than from a genetic one. But even from a genetic point of view it becomes necessary to draw a geographic line between Europe and the rest.
    But btw, it might be true for Northern Europe, but one should keep in mind that Cro-magnid people have lived in Southern Europe during the last Ice Age, while Northern Europe was completely under a thick glacier-mass.

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    @Mzungu mchagga I know what Goga meant to say and I totally agree with him in many points. I am simply saying that he should discuss more calm otherwise even though he is right and knows much, no one will take his words serious. I know that because I ones were similar to him. And this is sad. He has much knowledge.
    Last edited by Alan; 20-09-11 at 21:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    My point is that Sami people are maybe 100% North European, but they aren't Indo-Europeans at all. I mean Sami folks are even more pure European that the Balts, are Sami more Indo European?
    As you can see, this is the first message he wrote in relation with the other discussion (Samis). After my reply, he dishonestly changed the arguments claiming a very old Mongoloid presense there, wich makes this peoples the same "Nordic". Now, of course, including Northern European and North Asian in the category.

    Just wanted to point that, originally, the message did not say what he stated at the final. I said no way they were the most purest Northern Europeans, and he added the other part to "keep the reason".

    Time to go with the insanity nonsense.

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    Actually he is right. Mongoloid components doesnt have to be from Asia. The Saami people are native to this region as well Finno-Ugric people. Considering that all Caucasian elements in North Europe came as invaders from somewhere else,(doesnt matter when this was) than obviously the Saami are North Europeans.

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    For the same reason the real Northern Europeans were Neanderthals, not Mongoloids. And we can follow such silly logic all day.

    No, genetics separate exceedingly well what is NORTHERN EUROPEAN and NORTH ASIAN. Trying to use the term "Nordic" including both categories AFTER the reply is just a dishonest trick. Very clear clear as I showed above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    For the same reason the real Northern Europeans were Neanderthals, not Mongoloids. And we can follow such silly logic all day.

    No, genetics separate exceedingly well what is NORTHERN EUROPEAN and NORTH ASIAN. Trying to use the term "Nordic" including both categories AFTER the reply is just a dishonest trick. Very clear clear as I showed above.
    Indigenous North-European Finno-Ugric Sami folks are Nordics.

    Nordics = indigenous inhabitants of Northern Europe(, + north Asia etc.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Indigenous North-European Finno-Ugric Sami folks are Nordics.

    Nordics = inhabitants of Northern Europe(, + north Asia etc.)
    The thing is very clear from what you said before to what you said after my post. The message is quoted, keep trying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    The thing is very clear from what you said before to what you said after my post. The message is quoted, keep trying.
    Ok. But this is what I always tried to say you. That Finno-Ugric Scandinavians and Baltic folks are Nordic. Being Nordic (North-European Dodecad component) doesn't correlate with the ancient proto-Indo-Europeans. Because native Finno-Ugric Nordics don't speak an Indo-European language.

    Dienekes is right that proto-Indo-Europeans were West Asian.


    Btw, Sami are 100% (= native) European / Nordics!

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    It's possible Dienekes' is right, although he wasn't other times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    It's possible Dienekes' is right, although he wasn't other times.
    Ok. But many 'western' scolars suggest that Europeans actually aren't Indo-European. Dienekes is not the only source...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundis View Post
    Wow, where do you come up with these notions!? Any person who understands anything about population genetics is well aware that the Sami have elevated levels of Mongoloid, Siberian influences for the most part.
    Where did you get that Saami has Mongolian influence - N haplogroup is NorthWest Siberian and Northeast European haplogroup - Uralic . There is significant Mongolic influence in East Europe and Scandinavia , but not by Saami but by various Turkic nations that settled steppes - Altaic R1a and Q

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