Looking for autosomal data (23andMe) from ex-Yugolslavia, Albania and Ukraine

[Maciamo]

In order to achieve relatively accurate autosomal maps, I absolutely need to find data from individuals with ancestry from the following countries:

- Croatia
- Bosnia-Herzegovina
- Serbia
- Montenegro
- Kosovo
- Albania
- Macedonia
- Ukraine

Those in bold are the most important as they represent key populations for the map.

I would also like more data from these countries and regions :

- Switzerland
- Austria
- Czech Republic
- Slovakia
- Latvia
- Estonia
- Brittany, Auvergne, Languedoc and Provence in France
- specific regions of Turkey (all ancestors in the same region)


Anybody who has taken a test with 23andMe or FTDNA's Family Finder is eligible. If you have not sent your data to the Dodecad Project, you can run the admixtures yourself with the Do-It-Yourself Dodecad. I can also run it for you if you wish.

[Knovas]

Actually, only DOD307 is known to be from Switzerland, and DOD810 to be from Czech Republic. The Balkan sample needs to be divided even more, because surely contains information about the first populations you mention.

I'm afraid Latvians and Estonians are absent till the moment at Dodecad. I know the results of all Lithuanians, and if one more sample like this gets into the project, it's very easy to identify.

[rogers]

I have already submitted my data...I thought Dienekes was doing this project? Are you helping out or something?

I have Bosnian / Croatian heritage...

I have already had a go at Dienekes for lumping all of the Balkans together which is a stupid idea IMHO...

I am no longer interested in this project until all of the Balkans are separated into individual countries...It's a very diverse genetic group...

[Knovas]

Hi Rogers,

Maciamo asked because he used Dodecad data to perform autosomal maps, and there are none of this samples identified till the moment, so yours it's a very interesting one. I wrote a message to a Bosnian girl a few days ago telling if she wanted to join Dodecad too, but I haven't recived an answer. I don't know if she finally will decide to get into the project or not.

If you check the blog, you'll see Dienekes' recently devided the Balkan sample, but of course there are still quite with unknown origin between them. That's because he only separates individuals when he has, at least, 5 individuals from the same population. I'm afraid you'll have to wait to see wich samples are exactly (or more or less) from the same region as you. Once you have the results, I recomend you download the population portraits (where the Balkan sample is included) to see wich individuals look more similar to you in the graphics, inferring then wich could be from the same country or near.

[Maciamo]

I have already submitted my data...I thought Dienekes was doing this project? Are you helping out or something?

I have Bosnian / Croatian heritage...

I have already had a go at Dienekes for lumping all of the Balkans together which is a stupid idea IMHO...

I am no longer interested in this project until all of the Balkans are separated into individual countries...It's a very diverse genetic group...

My approach is different from that of Dienekes. I want to clearly separate every country from the Balkans. Unfortunately he didn't mention which member was from what country. What is your DOD number ? (you can send me a PM if you don't want to reveal it publicly).

[Wilhelm]

Dodecad today has incorporated the Ukranian and Bulgarians sample taken from a recent study.

[rogers]

My approach is different from that of Dienekes. I want to clearly separate every country from the Balkans. Unfortunately he didn't mention which member was from what country. What is your DOD number ? (you can send me a PM if you don't want to reveal it publicly).

I can tell you that your map for NorthWest European admixture is completely wrong for Croatia and Bosnia. I score about 50% in that mix...as for East European???...there is no such admixture being evaluated in the Dodecad project so I don't know how you got this data...Mediterranean...? I think you mean southern European...15 - 20 % is correct..West Asian 10 - 20 % is correct..South West Asian is about 2 - 5%, African < 1 %..so essentially your North West European scores for Croats and Bosnians is very inaccurate...Hope this helps

[Knovas]

It seems you are looking the K=10 results. Actually, there's a new spreadsheet including the East European where your results must appear in the individual section here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...COCa89AJ#gid=3

According to what you say, you look very different from the two Bosnians I share genomes with at 23andme. Having both the higher similarity with Southern Europe and checking the values, it is impossible they get 50% North or West European like you do. They cluster with Southern Europe neatly, as well as Eastern Europe, so the results you describe simply don't match with this. Well, it's curious.

[Maciamo]

I can tell you that your map for NorthWest European admixture is completely wrong for Croatia and Bosnia. I score about 50% in that mix...

This is exactly why I started this thread, because I didn't have any data for Croatia and Bosnia and therefore couldn't make an accurate map.

as for East European???...there is no such admixture being evaluated in the Dodecad project so I don't know how you got this data...Mediterranean...? I think you mean southern European...15 - 20 % is correct..West Asian 10 - 20 % is correct..South West Asian is about 2 - 5%, African < 1 %..so essentially your North West European scores for Croats and Bosnians is very inaccurate...Hope this helps

As Knovas said, the map are based on the K=12 admixtures (first introduced in late June 2011). Could you check again your results and let me know.

[Maciamo]

Dodecad today has incorporated the Ukranian and Bulgarians sample taken from a recent study.

Thanks for letting me know. I will modify the maps as the Ukrainians have much more West European admixture than expected. I thought they would fit between the Belarussians and the Romanians, but it's not the case. Belarussians have considerably less 'West European' than all other Slavs.

[Knovas]

Thanks for letting me know. I will modify the maps as the Ukrainians have much more West European admixture than expected. I thought they would fit between the Belarussians and the Romanians, but it's not the case. Belarussians have considerably less 'West European' than all other Slavs.

I mentioned the new sample in the East European post, although didn't notice the Ukranian peculiarity. It's possible you'll have to do some other minor changes.

[rogers]

It seems you are looking the K=10 results. Actually, there's a new spreadsheet including the East European where your results must appear in the individual section here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...COCa89AJ#gid=3

According to what you say, you look very different from the two Bosnians I share genomes with at 23andme. Having both the higher similarity with Southern Europe and checking the values, it is impossible they get 50% North or West European like you do. They cluster with Southern Europe neatly, as well as Eastern Europe, so the results you describe simply don't match with this. Well, it's curious.

I can't speak for others but my DNA calc results show 60% North Western European 35% Southern European and 5 % Ashkenazi...On K12 my Eastern Euro is 20.5%

[Knovas]

EuroDNACalc is not much accurate, what you got makes "sense" considering I'm Iberian and the DNA Calc gave me 75% Northwest and 25% Southeast, with 0% Ashkenazi.

Maciamo was also asking your East + West + Mediterranean score in the K=12 v3. 20.5% for the moment makes sense, so ¿what about the others?

[rogers]

EuroDNACalc is not much accurate, what you got makes "sense" considering I'm Iberian and the DNA Calc gave me 75% Northwest and 25% Southeast, with 0% Ashkenazi.

Maciamo was also asking your East + West + Mediterranean score in the K=12 v3. 20.5% for the moment makes sense, so ¿what about the others?

34% Western Euro 25.8% Southern

I would be happy to hear what you think about this..

[Knovas]

OK.

At least, now it's more clear. I guess you both Croats and Bosnians are a bit heteregeneous like happens in the global Balkan sample, so more participants will be necesary to get an accurate idea. I expected less West Asian and Southwest Asian (I assume is the vast majority of the rest of admixture), and more Mediterranean, but probably other people from the same region will get reports like this in the future.

Thanks!

[rogers]

OK.

At least, now it's more clear. I guess you both Croats and Bosnians are a bit heteregeneous like happens in the global Balkan sample, so more participants will be necesary to get an accurate idea. I expected less West Asian and Southwest Asian (I assume is the vast majority of the rest of admixture), and more Mediterranean, but probably other people from the same region will get reports like this in the future.

Thanks!

It's quite obvious that Croats and Bosnians migrated from Northern-Eastern Europe to Southern Europe only recently...autosomal admixtures clearly indicate this...

[Maciamo]

Thanks, Roger. It looks that my maps were correct after all (based on your data), despite of the fact that I had to guess the Croatian and Bosnian admixtures.

What about the West Asian and Southwest Asian admixtures ? My guesses are between 5 and 10% for the first and between 1 and 5% for the second.

[rogers]

Thanks, Roger. It looks that my maps were correct after all (based on your data), despite of the fact that I had to guess the Croatian and Bosnian admixtures.

What about the West Asian and Southwest Asian admixtures ? My guesses are between 5 and 10% for the first and between 1 and 5% for the second.

Maciamo...I still don't understand your first map..You have it as NorthWest?? Where did you get the data? If it's from the K12 data there is no North aspect to this only West..so what you are saying is that West is not separate from North??

[Maciamo]

Maciamo...I still don't understand your first map..You have it as NorthWest?? Where did you get the data? If it's from the K12 data there is no North aspect to this only West..so what you are saying is that West is not separate from North??

It is 'West European' in Dodecad, but I renamed it 'Northwest European' as it was more appropriate.

[rogers]

It is 'West European' in Dodecad, but I renamed it 'Northwest European' as it was more appropriate.

It's misleading to some degree. There is an obvious East-West cline as there is a North-South cline...

One needs to represent this for what it is..."Western" pure and simple until such time there are Northern markers...which unduobtedly there are but for reasons unknown to me Dienekes is not using them??

[Maciamo]

It's misleading to some degree. There is an obvious East-West cline as there is a North-South cline...

One needs to represent this for what it is..."Western" pure and simple until such time there are Northern markers...which unduobtedly there are but for reasons unknown to me Dienekes is not using them??

It is not originally "Western". This admixture is found as far east as Mongolia (5%) and as far south as India (12% in the Vaishya Hindus). In my opinion, this admixtures comprise one Proto-Indo-European element from Russia, which is why the so-called 'Western European' admixture exceeds 30% in Russians, and reaches almost 40% in Ukrainians. It's just that Slavic people inherited a greater percentage of 'East European' from the Baltic region, but the origins of most of the "Western European" admixture might be in the North Caucasus, South Russia and Ukraine.

[Knovas]

What about the West Asian and Southwest Asian admixtures ? My guesses are between 5 and 10% for the first and between 1 and 5% for the second.

Your guesses are a bit low.

West + East + Med = 80.3 %

West Asian + Southwest Asian should be around 16-18% (or more), considering it's difficult he has much South Asian, Northeast Asian and Southeast Asian. And the African autosomes must be absent or plain noise if reported.

[rogers]

Your guesses are a bit low.

West + East + Med = 80.3 %

West Asian + Southwest Asian should be around 16-18% (or more), considering it's difficult he has much South Asian, Northeast Asian and Southeast Asian. And the African autosomes must be absent or plain noise if reported.

No..it's 14.8 (West Asian + Southwest Asian)


What's your breakdown Knovas..being Iberian?

[Knovas]

Oh, it really surprises me! I supose you don't have any (or insignificant) African reported, since it's pretty rare among the Balkans.

I'll send you a private message ;)

[rogers]

Oh, it really surprises me! I supose you don't have any (or insignificant) African reported, since it's pretty rare among the Balkans.

I'll send you a private message ;)

ha ha..of course not...it's 0.5% North West African...noise??

Thanks for the pm...Wow..you have a high Med score..is that typical for Spaniards?