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View Poll Results: How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?

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  • Paleolithic continuity

    100 43.86%
  • The Early Indo-Europeans

    9 3.95%
  • Sea Peoples

    3 1.32%
  • The Sarmatians

    6 2.63%
  • The Slavs

    90 39.47%
  • Other (please tell us your theory)

    20 8.77%
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Thread: How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?

  1. #451
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    [QUOTE=Eldritch;405734]
    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    This is another proof that makes this haplogroup ancestral of Slavs.
    Read the link i posted.
    OK.And?Exactly wich part of the link support your assumption?

  2. #452
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    [QUOTE=gyms;405736]
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldritch View Post

    OK.And?Exactly wich part of the link support your assumption?
    Here it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Cullen
    He is
    identical to the other Dinarics with two exceptions:

    he is ancestral (A) for CTS10228
    he is ancestral (T) for CTS5966

    He is derived for three other SNPs like the other Dinarics:
    CTS10936
    CTS11768
    CTS4002

    (the Disles guy is ancestral for all 5 of these SNPs).

    (Also, the new Polish guy is ancestral for the SNP found only in the Disles
    guy, he is ancestral for the SNP found only in one Greek Dinaric, and he is
    ancestral for the SNP found only in one Jewish cluster Dinaric)

  3. #453
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    I2 came to Balkans with Ostrogoths.

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by al-kochol View Post
    I2 came to Balkans with Ostrogoths.
    Probably you mean I-M223 not I2a1b.

  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldritch View Post
    Probably you mean I-M223 not I2a1b.
    I mean I2. Ostrogoths were one of many tribes that emerged out of Scythia. Do not be mislead by their name, given to them by Romans. Ostrogoths were not a Germanic tribe and had zero connection to "Swedish" Goths, i.e. Adolf Hitler's Nordics. Ostrogoths did not speak a Germanic language, which is the truth that Germans do not like to hear as it undermines their Drang Nach Osten policy.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by al-kochol View Post
    Ostrogoths did not speak a Germanic language,
    And what language did they speak?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_language
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by al-kochol View Post
    I mean I2. Ostrogoths were one of many tribes that emerged out of Scythia. Do not be mislead by their name, given to them by Romans. Ostrogoths were not a Germanic tribe and had zero connection to "Swedish" Goths, i.e. Adolf Hitler's Nordics. Ostrogoths did not speak a Germanic language, which is the truth that Germans do not like to hear as it undermines their Drang Nach Osten policy.
    No.....
    Ostrogoths lived for some period of time in the region of today's Dalmatia but they continued their movement to the west. More precisely, they left Dalmatia and settled Italy.

    Do we have I2a Dinaric in Italy? As far as I know, it is not true.

  8. #458
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    Ostrogoths spoke the language similar to their neighbours'. Germans were not there.

  9. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gosh View Post
    No.....

    Do we have I2a Dinaric in Italy? As far as I know, it is not true.
    We have plenty of I2 in Sardinia.

  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by al-kochol View Post
    We have plenty of I2 in Sardinia.
    Completely different clade.

  11. #461
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    I2a1 could come with Vandals (Sardinia) while I2a2 with Ostrogoths (Bosnia, Hercegovina, Croatia). Both were non-Germanic tribes, contrary to claims of German propaganda.

  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by al-kochol View Post
    We have plenty of I2 in Sardinia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldritch View Post
    Completely different clade.
    I2a M26 is not called "Dinaric" :)

  13. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gosh View Post
    I2a M26 is not called "Dinaric" :)
    So, it is then "Vandalic" :)

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by al-kochol View Post
    So, it is then "Vandalic" :)
    M26 lived there many thousands of years before any Vandals. The highest level of variance is in the southern France.

  15. #465
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    Dinaric I2a got to its current position either directly from Anatolia through Greece to their highest concentration location of Bosnia Herzegovina, Serbia, Croatia area. Or through the Caucasus and extreme southern Russia hugging the coast of the black sea until penetrating Ukraine until reaching Moldova from where they subsequently spread to their current highest % locations in the Balkans, in my opinion.

  16. #466
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Here is my answer to the thread's original question - Slavic migrations represented on a map of Ukrainian origin. The tribes were initially somewhere in western Ukraine, moved south to western Moldavia (or Romanian Moldavia), then to Wallachia and from there to different parts of the Balkans. My opinion is that this scenario was the same for all Balkan I2a-Din. The time frame for Bulgarian and Macedonian Slavs is well described in historical sources, and for Slavs that are now are west from them I give interpretation that is not mine originally but it is also not broadly accepted. So, I think that the crucial event was when Avars destroyed Gepid kingdom in 568, when large number of Slavs moved west and southwest from Wallachia. For initial reading see this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclaveni .

    SlavicMigrations.jpg

    I've had this opinion for some time but two recent researches additionally convinced me. First one from Romania which showed only 12% for I2a in Cluj, and second one more recent, from Bulgaria which gave approximate ratio between Din-N and Din-S in Bulgaria. It seems to be around 55% Din-N : 45% Din-S.

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  18. #468
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    If this is not the proof that I2a-Din is recent in Southeast Europe, then I don't know what is: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0065441
    Last edited by Shetop; 01-06-13 at 14:20.

  19. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shetop View Post
    If this is not the proof that I2a-Din is recent in Southeast Europe, than I don't know what is: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0065441
    That study is another proof of the statement you made.

  20. #470
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    This proofs only one thing:I2a-Din was not in the Balkan during Roman times.

  21. #471
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    resurrecting an old renaissance theory with current modern new ideas.

    I2a as reported by KenN is ukraine and moldovian which in the late bronze-age and early iron-age was the land of the Cimmeranians. The cimmeranians where pushed out of the pontic steppe by the scythians.
    Recored history tells us that one branch of the cimmeranians went to Anatolia ( cappodocia)and the other branch settled initially in the Hungarian plains ( pannonia ).
    A further split occurred as one branch went from pannonia to dalmatia and the other along the danube and sava rivers.
    By 500BC they had been absorbed by eastward moving celts and disappeared from history in the balkans.

    My take, I am unsure, I still ask if the I2a went into the balkans, then what marker was in northern Illyria since there is very very little of the E marker there
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

  22. #472
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    Many Roman emperors were born in areas that are high with I2a nowdays.
    Any research on their haplotyope?

  23. #473
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    My thoughts on how I2a1 got to the balkans
    It arrived by 700BC with the cimmeranians, they then merged with "illyrians" who where R1b and G2a in majority and swept south over time punching into E1B thracian lands. eventually to be stopped by the macedonians

    Note: there where other haplotypes but I focused on the main



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  24. #474
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    u gues are making i2a1b much more recent than it actullely is G2a came in Neloithic R1a and R1b came in brnze age hg I has been in europe for over 30,000 years. I2a1b has probably been in eastern europe for over 15,000 years it is re everything exceot paloithic it is from cavman times u cant find a Neolithic ion age culture that will match where i2a1b came from. trying to say iit is the cimmermans honestly makes n sense at all.

  25. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    u gues are making i2a1b much more recent than it actullely is G2a came in Neloithic R1a and R1b came in brnze age hg I has been in europe for over 30,000 years. I2a1b has probably been in eastern europe for over 15,000 years it is re everything exceot paloithic it is from cavman times u cant find a Neolithic ion age culture that will match where i2a1b came from. trying to say iit is the cimmermans honestly makes n sense at all.
    It's possible to claim both that the ancestors of I2a-Din were Paleolithic Europeans, and that its modern spread is primarily the result of much later migrations. Hence why I argue that I2a-Din descends from residents of Paleolithic Europe (I've argued for the Franco-Iberian Ice Age refuge, although most other authors argue for the Balkans); but at the same time I believe it spread later with the Slavs. I think that's the best guess you get when you traverse the I2 tree. I2a P37.2+ as a whole is very western in its diversity and seems to have an affinity for the Atlantic Fringe and the Rhine. I2a-Din itself is in fact a geographic outlier in the I2a family, and STR dating, along with a lack of ancient samples compared to I2a1a M26+, indicates that it only became the most common I2a subclade recently.

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