Ancestors of Bosniaks, Herzegovinians, Montenegrins, Serbs and Croats are coming from White Croatia as Croats who later divided on these so-called nations....
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Why this respectable forum tolerate this chauvinistic idiot?
Doku
Someone can thinks that more times repeated construction (untruth) can become true. But no.
Nations are not biological entities, nations are social constructions.
This applies of course and for the Balkans, as for world generally.
State boundaries have changed over times.
In this map is Serbia 1282-1321 (orange is Bosnia, green is Hungary, yellow is Bulgaria, and in the lower part of map in lilac colour is Byzantine).
What this map tell us?
Where are Serbia and Bosnia in this map there is today the largest concentration of I2a1b2a1a3A356/Z16983.
Of course borders have changed
In that time Serbs were Orthodox and Roman Catholic, and Bosnians had religious pluralism, Bosnian church has dominated that considered as heretical by both the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox hierarchies.
Serbia had significantly strengthened and expanded its territory, but later, after the Battle of Kosovo in 1389 we all know what happened with the arrival of the Turks, where the Serbian medieval state destroyed.
It took many centuries to change things.
In the meantime there has been a significant change in religious population these areas.
Orthodox church in these areas (and in these areas carriers of haplogroup I2a1b2a1a3A356/Z16983 are dominated) was losing believers, orthodox Serbs converted to other religions.
In XIX century a lot of these areas came under rule of Austria Hungary.
This century is century of creating and integrating modern nations.
In these areas dominant factor for creating nations was religious.
Believers of Eastern Orthodox were Serbs, believers of Islam were Bosniacs. It is interesting there were Serbian and Bosnian Roman Catholic but over time they became Croats with creating a modern Croat nation.
So many carriers of haplogroup I2a1b2a1a3 A356/16983, Serbs and Bosnias, became Croats, not by origin, but by faith.
And it is normal,
nation is not biological but social construction.
...
For integrating in modern nation Croats had big problem. One part of Croats had kajkavian language or dialect. This language is close to Slovenian.
From Wikipedia:
The
Kajkavian dialect
/kaɪˈkaːviən/ (
Kajkavian noun:
kajkavščina;
Shtokavian adjective:
kajkavski [kǎjkaʋskiː],
[2] noun:
kajkavica or
kajkavština [kajkǎːʋʃtina])
[3] is a dialect of the
Serbo-Croatian language spoken by
Croats in
Central Croatia,
[4] Gorski Kotar[5] and northern
Istria.
[note 1][6][7] It has low
mutual intelligibility with the
Shtokavian dialect upon which Croatia's standard language is based.
[8][9] Some notable linguists consider Kajkavian to be a language of its own.
[10] As of 2015, Literary Kajkavian has a separate language ISO 639-3 code –
kjv. Active attempts are being made by some organizations to widen its recognition and status, which has thus far included introduction of school subjects in Kajkavian in some parts of Croatia as well as the creation of the aforementioned ISO code.
[11]
The term Kajkavian stems from the interrogative pronoun
kaj (
what). The other main dialects of Serbo-Croatian also derive their name from their reflex of the interrogative pronoun.
[12][13] However, the pronouns are only general pointers and do not serve as actual identifiers of the respective dialects. Certain Kajkavian dialects use the interrogative pronoun
ča, the one that is usually used in the Chakavian dialect. The pronouns these dialects are named after are merely the most common one in that dialect.
Outside of Croatia, the dialect is also spoken in
Austrian Burgenland and a number of enclaves in
Hungary (along the Austrian and Croatian border), and
Romania.
[14] Although speakers of Kajkavian are
Croats, and Kajkavian is as such also considered a dialect of
Serbo-Croatian, its closest relative is the
Slovene language, followed by
Chakavian and then
Shtokavian. Kajkavian is part of a dialect continuum with both Slovene and Chakavian.
[15]
Another part of Croatian spoked Chakavian language or dialect.
From Wikipedia:
Chakavian or
Čakavian /tʃaːˈkaːviən/ (
Serbo-Croatian: čakavski
[tʃǎːkaʋskiː],
[2] proper name:
čakavica or
čakavština [tʃakǎːʋʃtina],
[3] own name:
čokovski, čakavski, čekavski) is a dialect of the
Serbo-Croatian language spoken by a minority of
Croats. It has low
mutual intelligibility with the
Shtokavian dialect.
[4] There is much internal diversity, to the point where intelligibility between the northern and southern varieties of Chakavian is low.
[4] All three main Serbo-Croatian dialects are named after their word for "what?", which in Čakavian is
ča or
ca. Chakavian is spoken mainly in the northeastern
Adriatic: in
Istria,
Kvarner Gulf, in most Adriatic islands, and in the interior valley of
Gacka, more sporadically in the
Dalmatian littoral and central
Croatia.
Chakavian was the basis for the first literary standard of the Croats. Today, it is spoken almost entirely within Croatia's borders, apart from the
Burgenland Croats in Austria and Hungary and a few villages in
Slovenia.
...
But Croats have adopted the Shtokavian dialect, spoken in today's Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montengro and in parts of todays Croatia
.
Shtokavian or
Štokavian (
/ʃtɒˈkaːviən/;
Serbo-Croatian: štokavski / штокавски, pronounced
[ʃtǒːkaʋskiː])
[2] is the
prestige dialect of the
pluricentric Serbo-Croatian language, and the basis of its
Bosnian,
Croatian,
Serbian, and
Montenegrin standards.
[3] It is a part of the
South Slavic dialect continuum.
[4][5] Its name comes from the form for the interrogatory pronoun for "what" in Western Shtokavian,
što (it is
šta in Eastern Shtokavian). This is in contrast to the
Kajkavian and
Chakavian dialects (
kaj and
ča also meaning "what").
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In the picture is territorial display these languages/dialects in today's Croatia.
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Knowledge of haplogroups reveals interesting picture.
Kajkavian language/dialect is quite coincide with haplogroup R1a ecpacially M458:
...
On the other hand shtokavian language/dialect is quite coincide with haplogroup I2a Dyn S, I2a1b2a1a3A356/Z16983.
And the conclusion can be drawn,
those who speak a dialect of the Shtokavian language/dialect (Serbs, Bosnians, Herzegovinians, Montenegrins, and some parts of Croatia) are the real I2a1b2a1a3A356/Z16983 carriers.
...
If I2a Dyn S Gothic? I don't believe, and I wrote about it (but who knows).
Here I will say about
big irony of nationalists.
Some Serbian nationalists thought that Serbs are mostly R1a, but no. Serbs are mostly Old European and Balcanic.
Some Croat nationalists thought that Croats are German, but no. Kajkavian Croats are mostly R1a (mostly M458 closest to Chzecs).
Here the same data (plus "other" subclades):
A very interesting correlation can be seen (with only a few exceptions):
[WeS] - West Slavs
[EaS] - East Slavs
[SoS] - South Slavs
And this correlation (there are a few exceptions, as you can see below) is as follows:
West Slavs = more of M458
East Slavs = more of Z282
South Slavs = more of M558
Group (Z282 / M458 / M558 / other - as % of total R1a):
[WeS] Czechs----------------------------(10,1 / 79,8 / 10,1 / 0,0)
[WeS] Czechs Utah----------------------(0,0 / 70,0 / 19,9 / 10,1)
[SoS] Croatia mainland------------------(16,0 / 68,0 / 16,0 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Cherkassy-------------(22,4 / 53,1 / 24,5 / 0,0)
[WeS] Poland----------------------------(4,0 / 58,0 / 38,0 / 0,0)
[WeS] Slovakia--------------------------(4,1 / 46,2 / 48,0 / 1,7)
[SoS] Bulgaria---------------------------(10,8 / 42,0 / 40,4 / 6,8)
[WeS] Poles Wroclaw-------------------(17,6 / 43,2 / 39,2 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Ivano-Frank.----------(8,1 / 40,0 / 51,9 / 0,0)
[EaS] Belarusians Brest-Lit.-------------(15,8 / 38,6 / 45,6 / 0,0)
[EaS] Russians Kostroma---------------(18,9 / 37,4 / 43,7 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Donetsk---------------(30,4 / 30,4 / 37,0 / 2,2)
[EaS] Russians Pskov-------------------(37,1 / 25,8 / 35,5 / 1,6)
[EaS] Belarusians------------------------(38,4 / 23,2 / 38,4 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Belgorod--------------(49,9 / 11,6 / 38,5 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Khmilnyk--------------(39,4 / 15,7 / 44,9 / 0,0)
[EaS] Russians Belgorod----------------(25,9 / 18,8 / 55,3 / 0,0)
[EaS] Russians Oryol--------------------(25,0 / 23,6 / 51,4 / 0,0)
[SoS] Serbia------------------------------(17,9 / 23,2 / 47,0 / 11,9)
[SoS] Macedonia-------------------------(18,0 / 27,3 / 54,7 / 0,0)
[SoS] Bosnia-----------------------------(19,8 / 19,8 / 60,4 / 0,0)
[SoS] Slovenia---------------------------(0,0 / 10,7 / 83,9 / 5,4)
[SoS] Herzegovina-----------------------(6,2 / 6,2 / 87,6 / 0,0)
BTW - resemblance between Czechs and mainland Croats is striking. As if they were one group that split in two.
According R1a people Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina are closest (again
people who speak shtokavian).
What if I2a Dyn S is Ghotic?
It means that shtokavian people
Serbs and Bosniacs are descedents of Goths, it is logic.