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View Poll Results: How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?

Voters
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  • Paleolithic continuity

    98 44.55%
  • The Early Indo-Europeans

    8 3.64%
  • Sea Peoples

    3 1.36%
  • The Sarmatians

    6 2.73%
  • The Slavs

    86 39.09%
  • Other (please tell us your theory)

    19 8.64%
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Thread: How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?

  1. #1726
    Regular Member Ralphie Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-10-16
    Posts
    175

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a-Y18331-Y66192

    Country: United States



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuzlaq View Post
    Alright, makes sense. And what is your opinion about the origin of the i2a-din gene?
    Did it come with slavs or is it native?
    I think it’s pretty clear it came to the Balkans with the Slavs. Dinaric should be an obsolete term. However, it appears to have first come from further west, as there are basal clades so far from France and Germany. A clade just below those was found in Hungary. The oddball is Y18331, which has very few Slavs, a good number of Jews and high diversity in Greece/south Balkans, implying a different migration pattern.

  2. #1727
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    09-06-17
    Posts
    114


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Update is not finished. Most tnrca fluctuations are a bug according to yfull. Several ancients are older than the new formation date for example.

    Something similar happened last time. Last time it was fixed a few weeks after the update.
    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrios View Post
    No, we don't have samples from Archaic/Classical/Hellenistic Athens, Sparta, or Macedon yet. We do have samples though from the Phocaean Greek colony of Empúries (Spain), published in "The genomic history of the Iberian Peninsula over the past 8000 years (2019)", which included an Aegean cluster (designated as Empúries2) composed of five samples and dated to the Classical (x1), Hellenistic (x2), and Roman (x2) periods. 3/3 males belonged to haplogroup J; namely:
    I8215 - NE_Iberia_Greek (Empúries2) = Female
    I8205 - NE_Iberia_Hel (Empúries2) = Y-DNA J
    I8208 - NE_Iberia_Hel (Empúries2) = Y-DNA J
    I8216 - NE_Iberia_RomP (Empúries2) = Y-DNA J
    I8338 - NE_Iberia_RomP (Empúries2) = Female

    Furthermore, a lesser known case which i have discussed again in this forum and also includes the aforementioned medieval Cretan sample from Heraklion, is a preliminary presentation that was shown on
    February 16th 2018 by Nikolaos Psonis. It also included Classical samples (478-430 BCE) from the city of Ambracia, with one male sample being read sufficiently to give us a Y-DNA of R1b1b. You can see it at 15:15 of the presentation. Later on, at 23:52 he shares some details of a future publication which will include additional analysis of the Ambracian samples already shown (since these were just preliminary results), but also analysis of Archaic and/or Classical Corinthian samples. I contacted Psonis in early 2020 asking him for more details of when we can expect the study, and he gave me an approximate range of 2-3 years (back then). So, probably within 2022 we will have it.

    Last, there are probably thousands of ancient Greek skeletal remains that are found and stored not just in Greece but abroad as well. Aside of that though, there is also the aspect of quality, with many remains of ancient people lacking a number of alleles, rendering their analysis either difficult, deficient, or impossible. Then there is also the matter of funding and bureaucracy.
    There are 4-5 000 just from the recently excavated Salonica metro

  3. #1728
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    09-06-17
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    114


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Update is not finished. Most tnrca fluctuations are a bug according to yfull. Several ancients are older than the new formation date for example.
    Something similar happened last time. Last time it was fixed a few weeks after the update.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    I think it’s pretty clear it came to the Balkans with the Slavs. Dinaric should be an obsolete term. However, it appears to have first come from further west, as there are basal clades so far from France and Germany. A clade just below those was found in Hungary. The oddball is Y18331, which has very few Slavs, a good number of Jews and high diversity in Greece/south Balkans, implying a different migration pattern.
    Nothing from what it is written on Yfull about Y18331 makes sense.
    How in the world could all the descentands of I-Y18331 have a single ancestor going back to cople of centuries before the Slavic migrations , which person became the single father of the main lineage of Slavs and Central Europeans, spreading in all of eastern Europe and the Balkans with in 300 years(cause that's the age of the main subclasses that are ..geographically biased too)
    Or we can go by the logical accam's razor and conclude:
    The Adamov daiting method is way off and ages of the Haplogroups are much much older.
    Of course if the dating is wrong, and the results produce either slightly younger or older profiles, then automatically all the internet genetic forums theories collapse like a Domino chain and with them many state promoting naratives, like the Slavisist replacement theory of native populations
    Cause I would mean that the birth of the clades and their spread predate the recorded historical events.
    The geographic spread of the downstream clades is another line of evidence that the Adamov dating formula is wrong. You can't claim A mass migration event occured when the TMRCA of the main lineages of Y18331 in a specific region alludes to 2-3 common ancestors from the 5th century based on this dating method, like in the case of Bosnia. And the paradoxes don't stop there, you have to conclude that patriarch and his ofsprinngs had some magic fertility wand (in a general era of plagues and population stagnation through out Europe)that aided them in replacing local lineages and becoming the main one overtime, or the areas were depopulated earlier.
    Or the population of Bosnia in the 6th century after the massive relocation of Slavs(if we are to believe the historical records)was about 20 families of whom 10 were of
    I2 patrimonial lineage.

  4. #1729
    Regular Member Szigmund's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-02-19
    Posts
    30

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2 I-S17250
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a1

    Country: Hungary


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