How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?

How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?


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I don't know about their Y-DNA in depth, but a paper i read a couple of years ago found out that most of Ashekanzim Jewish mtDNA lines are European. Namely from "A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages" (2013), "Given the strength of the case for even these founders having a European source, however, our best estimate is to assign ~81% of Ashkenazi lineages to a European source, ~8% to the Near East and ~1% further to the east in Asia, with ~10% remaining ambiguous (Fig. 10; Supplementary Table S9).".

Concerning the Pomaks that you aforementioned, can you specify what do you mean by minor Turkic ancestry? Because minor is a relative term.
Their Y chromosome is the same as Palestinian bediouns though. Their Maternal line comes from Indo European Eurasian populations and South East Europe.
 
I don't know about their Y-DNA in depth, but a paper i read a couple of years ago found out that most of Ashekanzim Jewish mtDNA lines are European. Namely from "A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages" (2013), "Given the strength of the case for even these founders having a European source, however, our best estimate is to assign ~81% of Ashkenazi lineages to a European source, ~8% to the Near East and ~1% further to the east in Asia, with ~10% remaining ambiguous (Fig. 10; Supplementary Table S9).".

Concerning the Pomaks that you aforementioned, can you specify what do you mean by minor Turkic ancestry? Because minor is a relative term.

About 7 to 14 percent on average, it's usually almost always over 7 percent but rarely is as much as 14 but I have heard they can be.
 
Their Y chromosome is the same as Palestinian bediouns though. Their Maternal line comes from Indo European Eurasian populations and South East Europe.
From a quick review of that paper, i see that it deals with a number of Jewish populations, namely 7 (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) while what is of interest in our case are Ashkenazim Jews exclusively. By reading the abstract of the paper, it seems that one of the 7 aforementioned Jewish populations is excluded from that Palestinian and Syrian cluster, "Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians.". I suppose that the one of seven that is excluded pertains to Ashkenazim Jews, right? Haven't read the whole paper, hence the question.
 
From a quick review of that paper, i see that it deals with a number of Jewish populations, namely 7 (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) while what is of interest in our case are Ashkenazim Jews exclusively. By reading the abstract of the paper, it seems that one of the 7 aforementioned Jewish populations is excluded from that Palestinian and Syrian cluster, "Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians.". I suppose that the one of seven that is excluded pertains to Ashkenazim Jews, right? Haven't read the whole paper, hence the question.

They are like Palestinians in their Y chromosones yes or they have it from Semitic people from the Caucasus. Armeniod phenotype is from the Caucasus J1C1 is a Ashkenazi Jewish haplogroup from the Caucasus
 
About 7 to 14 percent on average, it's usually almost always over 7 percent but rarely is as much as 14 but I have heard they can be.
Can you please provide a source for these numbers? Also, does this pertain to autosomal, Y-DNA, or mtDNA? If autosomal, does it pertain to East Asian admixture, or something else? 7-14% seems too high for Pomaks. I mean, that would be the Turkish average, https://i.ibb.co/TP34vsy/EN0v-Lc-BWs-AAKnji-East-Asian-admixture-Turkey.jpg, so i doubt its that high in Pomaks. Consider this image as well, https://www.eupedia.com/images/content/East-Asian-admixture.gif.
 
They are like Palestinians in their Y chromosones yes or they have it from Semitic people from the Caucasus. Armeniod phenotype is from the Caucasus J1C1 is a Ashkenazi Jewish haplogroup from the Caucasus
That doesn't answer my question though. Anyways, we are diverging from the thread's subject, we can continue this through PM if you want.
 
Can you please provide a source for these numbers? Also, does this pertain to autosomal, Y-DNA, or mtDNA? If autosomal, does it pertain to East Asian admixture, or something else? 7-14% seems too high for Pomaks. I mean, that would be the Turkish average, https://i.ibb.co/TP34vsy/EN0v-Lc-BWs-AAKnji-East-Asian-admixture-Turkey.jpg, so i doubt its that high in Pomaks. Consider this image as well, https://www.eupedia.com/images/content/East-Asian-admixture.gif.

Turkish people are not simply Balkan converts to Islam they have admixtues and 7 percent for any Turk is not too much at all.




There was a user Kasipas on the apricity who had 8 to 10 percent and another one called Onur who got a similar score. I think at least 7 percent is quite typical
 
That doesn't answer my question though. Anyways, we are diverging from the thread's subject, we can continue this through PM if you want.

Ashkenazi Jews are European through their female line and deeply Middle Eastern through their male. That's all you need to know.

I came because I would like some additional information on my result I was hoping the Serbian guy could answer.
 
A Bulgarian result

This is one result and he is not Turkish nor Muslim nor Pomak and his result is 3. something Siberian
This is his


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 20.87
2 Baltic 15.41
3 North_Atlantic 14.82
4 West_Med 13.53
5 West_Asian 11.48
6 East_Asian 5.52
7 Northeast_African 4.13
8 Siberian 3.71
9 South_Asian 3.49
10 Red_Sea 2.9
11 Amerindian 2.35
12 Oceanian 1.52
13 Sub-Saharan 0.27

0.5x preferably.




A Turkish one
Target: Kaspias
Distance: 3.0036% / 0.03003601 | ADC: 0.5x
53.2 Balkan
24.8 Iranic
16.0 Oghuz
6.0 Ugric




 
Turkish people are not simply Balkan converts to Islam they have admixtues and 7 percent for any Turk is not too much at all.

There was a user Kaspiras on the apricity who had 8 to 10 percent and another one called Onur who got a similar score. I think at least 7 percent is quite typical
Assuming 7-14% out of thin air doesn't make it a fact though. Do you have a source for these numbers? There are a number of Turkish people who were simply Balkan converts by the way. One of them was Cretan Turks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretan_Turks), who spoke Greek as a mother tongue. Today their descendants live in Turkey, Lebanon, and Syria. And others of course. The other day i run some autosomal coordinates for a Balkan Turk, here are his Eurogenes K15 PCA (https://i.ibb.co/9V3pW19/K15-V4-Ata-T-rkc-Eurogenes-K15-PCA-2.png) and Eurogenes K36 Similarity Map (https://i.ibb.co/DDp3Pxf/Eurogenes-K36-Similarity-Map-1.png).
 
In Lebanon and Syria they live in the Turkish areas those are when the Ottomans attacked Crete the stats are above of both Bulgarian and Turkish


A Bulgarian result

This is one result and he is not Turkish nor Muslim nor Pomak and his result is 3. something Siberian
This is his


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 20.87
2 Baltic 15.41
3 North_Atlantic 14.82
4 West_Med 13.53
5 West_Asian 11.48
6 East_Asian 5.52
7 Northeast_African 4.13
8 Siberian 3.71
9 South_Asian 3.49
10 Red_Sea 2.9
11 Amerindian 2.35
12 Oceanian 1.52
13 Sub-Saharan 0.27

0.5x preferably.




A Turkish one
Target: Kaspias
Distance: 3.0036% / 0.03003601 | ADC: 0.5x
53.2 Balkan
24.8 Iranic
16.0 Oghuz
6.0 Ugric
 
In Lebanon and Syria they live in the Turkish areas those are when the Ottomans attacked Crete the stats are above of both Bulgarian and Turkish


A Bulgarian result

This is one result and he is not Turkish nor Muslim nor Pomak and his result is 3. something Siberian
This is his


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 20.87
2 Baltic 15.41
3 North_Atlantic 14.82
4 West_Med 13.53
5 West_Asian 11.48
6 East_Asian 5.52
7 Northeast_African 4.13
8 Siberian 3.71
9 South_Asian 3.49
10 Red_Sea 2.9
11 Amerindian 2.35
12 Oceanian 1.52
13 Sub-Saharan 0.27

0.5x preferably.




A Turkish one
Target: Kaspias
Distance: 3.0036% / 0.03003601 | ADC: 0.5x
53.2 Balkan
24.8 Iranic
16.0 Oghuz
6.0 Ugric
No, they left Crete for Lebanon and Syria between 1866 and 1897, on the outbreak of the Cretan uprising against the Ottoman Empire. Some others left with the 1923 population exchange between Greece and Turkey.

All these still don't provide any Pomak average. That Kaspias is actually more of a Turk of Thrace than Pomak, and a single sample.

Anyway, please stop spamming the thread with multiple (you could include everything in a single post) unrelated posts. We have diverged enough. If you want to continue this discussion send a PM.
 
Yes they descend from one another origin of Cro Magnon people


11221759_1483422381977597_6413641935768712088_n.jpg

this doc you provide (thanks for it) is nonsense! (for more than a reason, but it's so tiring to explain allways the same things)
 
No, they left Crete for Lebanon and Syria between 1866 and 1897, on the outbreak of the Cretan uprising against the Ottoman Empire. Some others left with the 1923 population exchange between Greece and Turkey.

All these still don't provide any Pomak average. That Kaspias is actually more of a Turk of Thrace than Pomak, and a single sample.

Anyway, please stop spamming the thread with multiple (you could include everything in a single post) unrelated posts. We have diverged enough. If you want to continue this discussion send a PM.

No it provided one Pomak average you said get them or even one Turkish average so I did. The majority of them I have seen are way above 6 or 7 or 10 percent anyway

No, don't talk to me like that. Don't ask me for averages on Turks and Jews and then say I am spamming when I provide scientific evidence

Turkmen of Lebanon is provided here. https://www.albawaba.com/editorchoice/lebanon-turkmen-villages-524898 They came to Lebanon/Syria because the Turks attacked Crete

Now, can we please get back on track? About the origin of I2 in the Balkans.
 
No it provided one Pomak average you said get them or even one Turkish average so I did. The majority of them I have seen are way above 6 or 7 or 10 percent anyway

No, don't talk to me like that. Don't ask me for averages on Turks and Jews and then say I am spamming when I provide scientific evidence

Turkmen of Lebanon is provided here. https://www.albawaba.com/editorchoice/lebanon-turkmen-villages-524898 They came to Lebanon/Syria because the Turks attacked Crete

Now, can we please get back on track? About the origin of I2 in the Balkans.
That sample still doesn't answer what the Pomak average that you claimed as 7-14% actually is. Here is also another graph from Anthrogenica that provides a more detailed view, and it lists the Pomaks with 0.25% East Asian and 0.18% North Asian admixtures.
https://abload.de/img/mdlpworld0snj4v.png
https://abload.de/img/mdlpworldsbj26.png

Don't talk to you like what? I said to try and include everything in one post, and you are making multiple posts at a time. Aside of the fact that what we are discussing is unrelated to the thread.

What do Turkmen have to do with Cretan Turks, other than sharing some settlements? Again, Cretan Turks migrated to Lebanon and Syria at the second half of the 19th century. Some of them still speak Greek.
 
That sample still doesn't answer what the Pomak average that you claimed as 7-14% actually is. Here is also another graph from Anthrogenica that provides a more detailed view, and it lists the Pomaks with 0.25% East Asian and 0.18% North Asian admixtures.
https://abload.de/img/mdlpworld0snj4v.png
https://abload.de/img/mdlpworldsbj26.png

Don't talk to you like what? I said to try and include everything in one post, and you are making multiple posts at a time. Aside of the fact that what we are discussing is unrelated to the thread.

What do Turkmen have to do with Cretan Turks, other than sharing some settlements? Again, Cretan Turks migrated to Lebanon and Syria at the second half of the 19th century. Some of them still speak Greek.
#

I said the Turkish average meaning Pomak he is a Pomak. Many other Turkish groups have this average. Turks are in no way shape or form simply ''Balkan converts to Islam'' apart from Bosnians or Bosinaks and yes some Greeks.

It lists Cretan Turks as coming as refugees when the island fell in the 19th Century.

I listed the reason why.

It fell because increased attacks from the Turks.


 
They didn't just decide to go to Lebanon or Syria on holiday. Look I am not interesting in Turks or Jews. I am interested in my result and can the Serbian users here explain in my detail pre historic migrations and also the origin of I2 Dinaric. I will make another comment regarding that. Bye.
 
#

I said the Turkish average meaning Pomak he is a Pomak. Many other Turkish groups have this average. Turks are in no way shape or form simply ''Balkan converts to Islam'' apart from Bosnians or Bosinaks and yes some Greeks.

It lists Cretan Turks as coming as refugees when the island fell in the 19th Century.

I listed the reason why.

It fell because increased attacks from the Turks.

They didn't just decide to go to Lebanon or Syria on holiday.
Pomaks are not Turks, they are simply Muslims and bulgarophones. Also, i provided you a table with more detailed information, and Pomaks have negligible amounts of Turkic admixtures. Nothing to suggest 7-14%. Also, i am not going to expand on the amount of Balkan converts to Islam, but they obviously have minor East and North Asian admixtures, and other than that they have different frequencies of certain other admixtures than those of Anatolian Turks. Also, the fact that they all have such low East and North Asian admixture frequencies, suggest conversion and assimilation in one way or another.

You wrote that they came to Lebanon and Syria because Turks attacked Crete. Conquest of Crete by the Ottomans began in 1645 and ended in 1669. The island didn't fell in the 19th century. I say again, that those Cretan Turks of Lebanon and Syria left Crete between 1866 and 1897, during the Cretan (Orthodox Christians) uprising against the Ottoman Empire, yes, as refugees. With the Treaty of Constantinople (1897) Crete became an autonomous State, until it was finally unified with Greece in December of 1913.

I didn't claim that they ended up in Lebanon and Syria because of holidays, they were obviously refugees and unwanted on the island. But what you wrote in prior comments suggested that they were Turkmen and that they ended up in the Middle East because of the Turkic conquest of Crete, which is wrong.
 

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