The elusive non-Germanic I1

nordicfoyer said:
Lebrok I'm glad you said that about the meteor radiation--
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More like natural uranium deposits found in crust of Earth. Same sources where we get fuel to fission/atom reactors. It is rare but naturally occurring, and if poor bastards found it accidentally, the very heavy warm rocks,....let's put it this way, something magical happened on many levels.
 
LeBrok said:
More like natural uranium deposits found in crust of Earth. Same sources where we get fuel to fission/atom reactors. It is rare but naturally occurring, and if poor bastards found it accidentally, the very heavy warm rocks,....let's put it this way, something magical happened on many levels.
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I1 - Fuelled by your friendly neighbourhood radiation.
 
where could we find the 'exit' out this thread, please?


seriously, the must of non-germanized Y-I1 could have been proto-basque speaking or finnicized in Scandinavia - the remnant in Denmark-Germany became germanized - among neo-celtic population I do'nt know, there were/are still very scarce... some Belgae??? some Pre-Neolithic scarce and lost tribes ? or some (mixed with as scarce Y-R1a and R1b) post-BB of Wessex and First Tumuli wave in W-Armoric???
 
MOESAN said:
where could we find the 'exit' out this thread, please?[ /QUOTE]

You're right Moesan, we need to wrap this up so we can get back to a fifteen page thread where Albanians and Greeks fight a three thousand year old turf war. Which is exciting for me personally because I'm neither Albanian nor Greek. :)
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Why would we close this thread? It can be a very interesting discussion.

Moesan, why should it be closed because you think you know the answer? It is a discussion of something we don't know much about.
 
I agree Spruithean, I think there's some meat left on the bone here. I did want to clarify a couple of points I made earlier regarding the constant (or lack thereof) mutation rate.

If radiation spikes from the sources mentioned above (with solar flucuation being the most probable) jiggled the rate, that would make it difficult to predict ALL y-haplogroup timescale branching... not just hg I or I1. We would essentially have a moving target. Throw in the fact that some y-hg's might be more radiation resistant and you have quite a puzzle.

Svante Paabo has something interesting to say about the genetic testing of modern humans that the readers of this thread might want to check out. Keep in mind Paabo's lab discovered Fox P2 and of course was instrumental in Neanderthal's game changing genetic exploration.

At the end of a talk by Dr. Dennis Stanford--Head of Archaelogy Division of the U.S. Museum of Natural History-- on Solutreans Theory... Paabo and Stanford have an great exchange. Check youtube video titled "Solutreans: First Americans". It's 1 hr. 31 minutes long, but save time and forward to 1 hr. 16 minutes and 45 seconds in to see Paabo's participation. Paabo says he is skepical of reading modern human remains because of contamination. Did he mean living populations? Recently deceased populations? I don't know, but if the heavy hitters are having issues with these topics at least we are in good company.
 
I think the the thing that makes research harder is trying to call one haplogroup "Celtic" or "Slavic" or what have you. People migrate, breed regardless. You could have someone with the strangest haplogroup in the area at the time who was the most "Germanic" person in the tribe.

Though it is interesting to try and identify what group of people a certain line of yours may be connected with. I know for my direct paternal line it doesn't help that the paper trail stops due to lack of records and the lack of info I've yet to find on the haplogroup I belong too lol.

I would think some Haplgroups mutate more than others, whether that is due to radiation or not I don't know. But I bet there are some families and groups who mutate faster and others slower leading to all kinds of variations and interesting results.
 
spruithean said:
I think the the thing that makes research harder is trying to call one haplogroup "Celtic" or "Slavic" or what have you. People migrate, breed regardless. You could have someone with the strangest haplogroup in the area at the time who was the most "Germanic" person in the tribe.

Though it is interesting to try and identify what group of people a certain line of yours may be connected with. I know for my direct paternal line it doesn't help that the paper trail stops due to lack of records and the lack of info I've yet to find on the haplogroup I belong too lol.

I would think some Haplgroups mutate more than others, whether that is due to radiation or not I don't know. But I bet there are some families and groups who mutate faster and others slower leading to all kinds of variations and interesting results.
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Exactly, always important to remember that race does not equal y-haplogroup. And regarding y-DNA stability, I think I read somewhere that hg E is particulary stable... but I can't remember where I read this.

I've noticed that some of us in the New World (U.S. Canada) have a strong interest in these fields because in a way we've been "cut-off" from parts of our heritage. But that's a seperate thread!
 
nordicfoyer said:
Exactly, always important to remember that race does not equal y-haplogroup. And regarding y-DNA stability, I think I read somewhere that hg E is particulary stable... but I can't remember where I read this.

I've noticed that some of us in the New World (U.S. Canada) have a strong interest in these fields because in a way we've been "cut-off" from parts of our heritage. But that's a seperate thread!
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You share very little in common with your very distant yDNA uber-grandfather. You share more in common with your recent kin group.

I can see that as being somewhat true. It is especially frustrating (or infuriating) when a genealogical paper trail doesn't take to specific locations in the old world of some of your ancestors.

Perhaps that thread will soon be created.
 
spruithean said:
Why would we close this thread? It can be a very interesting discussion.

Moesan, why should it be closed because you think you know the answer? It is a discussion of something we don't know much about.
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I don't think I know the answer (very often, I make suppositions upon what I have at hand, like others) - but sometimes I felt we were far from the thread core... Sorry if I shock somebody...
 
MOESAN said:
I don't think I know the answer (very often, I make suppositions upon what I have at hand, like others) - but sometimes I felt we were far from the thread core... Sorry if I shock somebody...
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It's okay. I just didn't see why the thread should be closed. We can always get back to the original questions.
 
heres an idea,youve heard of the term celto-german or celto germanic,would that apply to i1as4
 
i guess that what it means i read it online......celtic culture german dna
 
Yes, I have heard of the term "Celto-Germanic" or "Germano-Celtic" often implies a mixture of Celtic and Germanic culture, genetics, etc.

You should know you share very little in common with your distant yDNA ancestor. For example say he was an Angle settling in Britain. The only thing you inherited from him was his y-chromosome. You have more in common with your recent kin.
 
yeah i know its just fun to talk about..lol
thanks for replying though
 
spruithean said:
I think the the thing that makes research harder is trying to call one haplogroup "Celtic" or "Slavic" or what have you. People migrate, breed regardless. You could have someone with the strangest haplogroup in the area at the time who was the most "Germanic" person in the tribe.

if no haplogroup nor autosomals mean have any signification in regard of History, I think we can all of us close definitely all these useless threads and go to pub to have true human contacts! - haplogroups are not "celtic" nor "slavic" but at some point of History they have been (maybe?) linked statistically to some human group for a time and so can help us to "tell the story", have they not?
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Oh they certainly have and can help use tell the story.

What I'm trying to say I guess, it is difficult and sometimes completely useless to try and assign labels to someone's Haplogroup.

Yes, going to a pub for some real human contact is probably much healthier!
 
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