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Thread: Albanians (OFFTOPIC Macedonians)

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Sorry pal, only by the dates you give
    I see that you know nothing about ARbanitika
    and the old Languages,

    mainly it is the oposite,
    Search all good linguists,


    the rest is like the claim that E-V13 is founder effect


    Arbanites first in peloponese?
    only that is a prove that you read and transmit and you do not know nothing
    search better,

    like Aristeidh kolla,

    What dates? You do realize that I've read this dates not in Internet or any book i bought to learn about this question. I've read and heard this dates on official Albanian school books. If you have smth to complain about the dates you can write a complain letter to the Greek ministry or education or whatever you have there or one directly to the Albanian ministry of science and education and complain, but since this dates are on an official book it means that the Greek Gov, even maybe indirectly agreed to them cause otherwise we by now would have had like at least 5 press conferences by diff greek ministers or vice about this matter.

    About the Peloponez, idk if that's the right peninsula name but i mean the peninsula where Athens and it's suburb is located, whatever that peninsula is called, and I said (or i meant) that they settled mainly or first there. They might have been as far am concerned even in Timbuktu but they settled in that peninsula whatever it's name is.

    The opposite of what? What's mainly the opposite?

    And what do you mean by E-V13 founder? Like founder, the one who founded like an company for example. I'm afraid i do not understand you...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endri View Post
    What dates? You do realize that I've read this dates not in Internet or any book i bought to learn about this question. I've read and heard this dates on official Albanian school books. If you have smth to complain about the dates you can write a complain letter to the Greek ministry or education or whatever you have there or one directly to the Albanian ministry of science and education and complain, but since this dates are on an official book it means that the Greek Gov, even maybe indirectly agreed to them cause otherwise we by now would have had like at least 5 press conferences by diff greek ministers or vice about this matter.

    About the Peloponez, idk if that's the right peninsula name but i mean the peninsula where Athens and it's suburb is located, whatever that peninsula is called, and I said (or i meant) that they settled mainly or first there. They might have been as far am concerned even in Timbuktu but they settled in that peninsula whatever it's name is.

    The opposite of what? What's mainly the opposite?

    And what do you mean by E-V13 founder? Like founder, the one who founded like an company for example. I'm afraid i do not understand you...

    In this forum
    I have many posts about the subject, I am not going to repeat them

    search better All Arbanites clubs and organizations and the official and you understand,
    All exept one which is Albanian and claim them shelves as Arbanites, you realize who,
    the same think you claim the same say all Albanians but non search the Data
    the kangoure gitoni are not in peloponese but in Lefktra, in 1200-1300 about
    from there under the bless of Venice they moved to peloponese when Nayplio pass under Venice command, and from there majority left
    these are the kangoures, about 60 000
    the others the Klefts arbanites like suliotes and rest are about 1700 and after when Albanians hunt them from berat to Arta and more south to mesologgi, Ali pasha case
    a third group mainly Arbanto-Vlachs came after the Arnauts lute and burn down the Moschopolis.
    I think you better read the story of ARbanites better, as also their language,
    especially the Kleft-Arbanites which are about 50 000 about,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtcc1 View Post
    I think you guys have a problem accepting or considering various opinions. For "strong nationalist views and highly skewed information" most Greek activists are second to none. I have never been in Albania, but in writing they seem to be less demagogic than the Greeks. I am sure you have not read anything from Albanian historians, and I have read Greek historians. Let's move away from historians and talk about real things, Albanians have not attempted to expel populations and change the character of regions and say oh, this has always been Greek, like Greeks have done throughout Greece. Be considered.
    Well, let's skip the Greeks and other bordering countries that might have had bad history with Albania. I thought it was obvious that I was referring to rest of people from 200 other countries around this planet who didn't have emotional connection with Albania. I even singled out german individual Taranis as one to give you objective opinion, and I must say, very educated in linguistics, who also spent his time analyzing Albanian language.

    As for myself, I'm polish with no ties to Albania. I personally and briefly knew only one Albanian, and he was one of best tradesmen working on my house. I have no reason to undermine and derogate Albanians and their language.

    If you think that we, in this context, will disregard all Albanian's post about Albanian language, I must tell you that this is not true. I, and I'm sure Taranis too, have a big respect to Endri and his/her posts on this subject. Even though he/she is Albanian, we find his/her post very objective and insightful.

    Remember, we are not your enemy. We just love these subjects and are trying to find the light, or something resembling the truth, in dark basements of history of human kind. Well, maybe except our friend Yetos, the big greek nationalist, always swimming against the current, and never agreeing with anyone. (Did I hear it on german tv, or was it from thread "You were too long in Greece when...."?)

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Well, let's skip the Greeks and other bordering countries that might have had bad history with Albania. I thought it was obvious that I was referring to rest of people from 200 other countries around this planet who didn't have emotional connection with Albania. I even singled out german individual Taranis as one to give you objective opinion, and I must say, very educated in linguistics, who also spent his time analyzing Albanian language.

    As for myself, I'm polish with no ties to Albania. I personally and briefly knew only one Albanian, and he was one of best tradesmen working on my house. I have no reason to undermine and derogate Albanians and their language.

    If you think that we, in this context, will disregard all Albanian's post about Albanian language, I must tell you that this is not true. I, and I'm sure Taranis too, have a big respect to Endri and his/her posts on this subject. Even though he/she is Albanian, we find his/her post very objective and insightful.

    Remember, we are not your enemy. We just love these subjects and are trying to find the light, or something resembling the truth, in dark basements of history of human kind. Well, maybe except our friend Yetos, the big greek nationalist, always swimming against the current, and never agreeing with anyone. (Did I hear it on german tv, or was it from thread "You were too long in Greece when...."?)

    good point LeBrok
    South Balkanic people (including me) are 'war-head' or 'warm-head'.
    and many times we follow fanatics who are pushing 'news' and paid by goverments,
    (remember Nazi and Goebels)

    just think that after crisis, Greek 'scientists' prove that Greeks found New Zealand before Maori
    same is in every Balkanic country,
    the problem is that some are pushing ideas like the above, the case of kangoure gitoni is a wrong tranmission to those who did not know, by officials
    for example all say one and other, but who knows that dictator Pagkalos was one of them, as also prime ministers in the past, and they are mostly the richest among Atheneans,
    on the other hand nobody speaks about Ismail Vlore and his newspaper etc

    the problem in Balkans is that in order to keep people stop talking about their life, their status, economics, all day tv shows semi-porn, and 'scientists' who spread buls....
    and people believe them.

    no need to put more examples, of my talk,
    when linguists say that Albanian has a small connection with Thracian, the next day one 'scientist' will say Thracian were Albanians, or Makedonians were Slavs, or Bulgars were Iranians, or Turkish is autochthonus
    I even heard by someone that Alexander reach Yunan in china cause Greece in Semitic languages is Yunan-istan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    In this forum
    I have many posts about the subject, I am not going to repeat them

    search better All Arbanites clubs and organizations and the official and you understand,
    All exept one which is Albanian and claim them shelves as Arbanites, you realize who,
    the same think you claim the same say all Albanians but non search the Data
    the kangoure gitoni are not in peloponese but in Lefktra, in 1200-1300 about
    from there under the bless of Venice they moved to peloponese when Nayplio pass under Venice command, and from there majority left
    these are the kangoures, about 60 000
    the others the Klefts arbanites like suliotes and rest are about 1700 and after when Albanians hunt them from berat to Arta and more south to mesologgi, Ali pasha case
    a third group mainly Arbanto-Vlachs came after the Arnauts lute and burn down the Moschopolis.
    I think you better read the story of ARbanites better, as also their language,
    especially the Kleft-Arbanites which are about 50 000 about,
    Just so i make sure...what are you tryin' to prove? That Arvanites are not Albanian (by origin) or that they do not speak an Albanian sub dialect, or both?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endri View Post
    Just so i make sure...what are you tryin' to prove? That Arvanites are not Albanian (by origin) or that they do not speak an Albanian sub dialect, or both?

    read carefull what I am writing,

    and start understand who is Arbanites and about whom you you talking,
    All orthodox Albanians are not Arbanites, neither all Albanians are Arbanites neither All Arbanites are Albanians,

    Deutsch is German but German does not mean Deutsch

    make clear about who ARbanites you are Speaking.


    the kangoures (Arbanites of Leyktra Athens etc)
    are from around Lake Skodra North Albania
    they are almost same with Arberesh,
    they moved to Greece after a disease (or a massacre) to Help the Latin rulers of AThens after their invitation, they settled in North of Athens around Theba, and from there split,
    they came at about 1240-1300 (need to search to tell you the exact year)
    their dialect is old Albanian Speakers mainly,

    You probably speak about them,
    but these are not the only one Arbanites but 1/3 of what is called Arbanites. I gave you estimation about 60 000 with a possible mistake of 10-15%

    about the rest of Arbanites is another story, which is different to every case and family,

    All Arbanites are from area that is today Albania,
    But that does not mean that all Arbanites are Albanians,

    it is like the exchange of population of '23 among Greeks and Turks, a case that affected a few Chamerian families,

    in '23 came from minor Asia Turkey hundreds thousands o million peoples
    from some areas it was prohibited to speak Greek, so they spoke Turk, (turkophones) what that means? that they all were Turks? no
    I will not expand more to that,

    so what I am saying is that Arbanites means Albanophones,
    part of them like Kangoures are from North Albania, and by what i read in some net pages and Dienekes they share same genetic with Arberesh with different autosomal due to 800 years living in Greece, But what were they? their genetic show big concentration of I Hg by what i can remember,
    Now if they are Albanians or Greeks or Illyrians or Thracians?
    they just claim that they are from today Albania, Arbanitika dialect Speaking.
    that is a fact that nobody can deny, neither Greek neither Albanian Neither Slav.

    the Arbanto-Vlachs mainly from Moschopolis is another case, they are consider and claim them shelves as Aromani and their language is mainly Latin Aromani with Albanian elements.

    The Kleft-Arbanites is last case,
    in this case each family or village has its own history, and i read many due to relatives of mine,


    All the above are considered Arbanites, about which you are talking?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Citation from:http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/english/...arvanites.html

    Trudgill (1994) has shown that, in Greece, as minority languages are all alien (Abstand) to Greek, the use of different names for them (Arvanitika rather than Albanian, Vlach rather than Romanian, Slav rather than Macedonian) has contributed to denying their heteronomy (i.e. their dependence on the corresponding standard language) and increasing their autonomy (by assigning them the status of autonomous languages). As a result, the minority language’s vulnerability grew significantly, as well as the dissociation of the speakers’ ethnic (Arvanite, Vlach, Slavophone) identities from the corresponding national identities (Albanian, Romanian, Macedonian) which have developed in the respective modern nation-states. Today, Arvanite ethnic identity is perceived by many members of the community as distinct from that of the other Greeks who have Greek as their mother tongue but as fully compatible with Greek national identity (likewise for many Vlachs and Macedonians). A similar phenomenon has helped weaken the links between Pomaks in Greece (speaking a Bulgarian-based language) and Bulgarians, and the consequent Pomaks’ assimilation into the Turkish ethnic and, by now, national identity in Western Thrace, an assimilation here detrimental to Greece’s homogenization and anti-minority policies.

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    one more citation:
    Experts, therefore, agree that Arvanitika in Greece is threatened with extinction more than the equivalent Arberichte language of Southern Italy, as the latter country is more tolerant and does not feel threatened by plurilingualism (Hamp, 1978; Tsitsipis, 1983).

    And a big Thanks to Italy

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    Quote Originally Posted by FBS View Post
    Citation from:http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/english/...arvanites.html

    Trudgill (1994) has shown that, in Greece, as minority languages are all alien (Abstand) to Greek, the use of different names for them (Arvanitika rather than Albanian, Vlach rather than Romanian, Slav rather than Macedonian) has contributed to denying their heteronomy (i.e. their dependence on the corresponding standard language) and increasing their autonomy (by assigning them the status of autonomous languages). As a result, the minority language’s vulnerability grew significantly, as well as the dissociation of the speakers’ ethnic (Arvanite, Vlach, Slavophone) identities from the corresponding national identities (Albanian, Romanian, Macedonian) which have developed in the respective modern nation-states. Today, Arvanite ethnic identity is perceived by many members of the community as distinct from that of the other Greeks who have Greek as their mother tongue but as fully compatible with Greek national identity (likewise for many Vlachs and Macedonians). A similar phenomenon has helped weaken the links between Pomaks in Greece (speaking a Bulgarian-based language) and Bulgarians, and the consequent Pomaks’ assimilation into the Turkish ethnic and, by now, national identity in Western Thrace, an assimilation here detrimental to Greece’s homogenization and anti-minority policies.
    First. Pomaks is a special case from 1923, I remind you the Poamak Strungle to Join and aceepted by Greek in 50-60 against Bulgaria of Zivkov,

    Second Arbanites as minority is to them,
    Arbanites share heritage of Greek national Heroes, of Greek Big politician prime minister and of Greek modern Scientists,
    Now if you understand the term Arbanites as it given the rest is up to you,
    I guess we don't disagree about my post, cause you know it is True, but then with what?
    I think your problem is
    why in today Greece that the last 15 years moved 1,500 000 Albanians the Greek does recogn Albanians as a minority and opens school to them?
    the answer is that after 1912 and the liberty of Albania and its form as a state, the terminology Arbanites stop, all the rest are Albanians who migrate, not minority.

    so all ALbanians that enter Greece after 1912 are considered as Greeks-North Epirotans or Albanians by nation,

    Third Aromani does means Romanian
    I wonder the Aromani in Albania do you consider them as Romanians?
    it is another case the Latin Speakers of Balkans and another the Romanians of Balkans,
    cause both Speak Latin does not mean that they are Romanians,
    Aromani have high concentrations of R1b of Roman-Italian times of Roman empire.

    4rth if you believe that Makedonians are Slavs then no need to discuss further,

    even in genetic of M458 allthough the old theory is making them Slavs, the modern is denying that they are Slavs, since they older than the R1a which is considered Scythian -Sarmatian,
    Soon R1a M458 will a mark of older than Slavic populations, with a possibility to be Anatolian origin, not Asian-Sibir,
    just wait genetic to speak more in few years,

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    Quote Originally Posted by FBS View Post
    one more citation:
    Experts, therefore, agree that Arvanitika in Greece is threatened with extinction more than the equivalent Arberichte language of Southern Italy, as the latter country is more tolerant and does not feel threatened by plurilingualism (Hamp, 1978; Tsitsipis, 1983).

    And a big Thanks to Italy

    you are talking about Kangoure Arbanitika,
    I inform you that Kangoures are not minority but equals, the situation comes every 30 in discuss among them,
    it is up to them, and only up to them to say what they want,

    Kangoures had and have big places in the army and in govermant, in which country happens that?


    Kangoures are not regognised as Albanian minority, no matter Albania goverment wants to, but as a Greek minority.
    if they want to save their language it is up to them, and believe me they do in their own clubs and organisations, as their language-dialect exist for >800 years in Greece, so all efforts of Albanians to open Albanian schools in Greece are just an effort to use Greek money to be spend so Albanians in Greece learn Albanian, and not about Arbanites.

    if Albania wants to open schools in Greece about Albanian language it is up to them,
    let them spend the money as Greece does in Foreign lands like Germany Australia Russia USA etc,

    YOU CAN NOT FORCE GREECE TO SPEND MONEY SO THAT ALBANIANS THAT CAME AT '97 after the pyramid collapse LEARN ALBANIAN,
    FORCE ALBANIAN GOVERMENT TO SPEND MONEY TO BUILD SCHOOLS FOR THE ALBANIAN IMMIGRANTS


    the kangourika language-dialect today is spoken by >35 000 to 50 000 after a population of about 60 000, how they manage? after 200 Greek state and more than 800 years in greece if they are hunt by Greeks as you say?
    cause that is a myth, they have their own schools, their own teachers and professors and magazines and even a search and develop area in the university of Athens,
    the rest are just political games.



    When Albania pay money so that North Epirotans learn Greek,
    When Albania spend money so that Aromani of Albania learn their Latin Language,
    then Speak about the others, of anti-minority policy.

    Same is with Turkey,
    When it opens the old Greek scools of Con/polis when the big school of Chalke opens again then we might speak again,

    as about Fyrom? no comment,
    Pan-Slavism at its maximum.


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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Well, I am not talking or claiming anything actually, so I do not understand what are you getting so worked up about. I only made the quotations from the Greek Helsinki Monitor. Maybe you should tell them that you do not agree with what they say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post

    Albanians are a Dacian tribe who colonised Illyria, and from there spread,
    original Albanians are considered the arberesh who moved from Romania with Byzantine army to sicily to Albania to Greece and then back to sicily,
    Why they are not Illyrians which retreat from Dacia?

    Do you now Dacia was heavily colonized by Illyrians?? the tribes of Dalmats, Sardeats, Piruistes etc, colonized Dacia as miners, and then retreat in Dardania and etc..

    What do you think about Dacian-Thracian-Illyrian conection? Simmilar people which lived together, for long time, with same origins, even they incvaded together, for example Dardanians (which are called alternately thracians and illyrians) inmvaded Anatolia, built Troy etc.

    And why do you think illyrians vanished in their homeland (where logic says they were stronger) but they saved identity in the diaspora / Dacia (where logic says they were weaker, sa they were diaspora) and then came to Albania/Kosovo??? Or maybe they saved identity since there they met their brothers Dacians which spoke the same language, so there was not danger of assimilation???

    Why, you have no answer for all these problems??? Or why your answers don't explain anything but just make it more dificult, and you don't live answer for anything???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    Why they are not Illyrians which retreat from Dacia?

    Do you now Dacia was heavily colonized by Illyrians?? the tribes of Dalmats, Sardeats, Piruistes etc, colonized Dacia as miners, and then retreat in Dardania and etc..

    What do you think about Dacian-Thracian-Illyrian conection? Simmilar people which lived together, for long time, with same origins, even they incvaded together, for example Dardanians (which are called alternately thracians and illyrians) inmvaded Anatolia, built Troy etc.

    And why do you think illyrians vanished in their homeland (where logic says they were stronger) but they saved identity in the diaspora / Dacia (where logic says they were weaker, sa they were diaspora) and then came to Albania/Kosovo??? Or maybe they saved identity since there they met their brothers Dacians which spoke the same language, so there was not danger of assimilation???

    Why, you have no answer for all these problems??? Or why your answers don't explain anything but just make it more dificult, and you don't live answer for anything???
    Wrong

    Thracians where the most populous people in the balkans in ancient times, then greeks, then Macedonains and lastly illyrians who where the last to enter the balkans...........read what the historians wrote
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    you are talking about Kangoure Arbanitika,
    I inform you that Kangoures are not minority but equals, the situation comes every 30 in discuss among them,
    it is up to them, and only up to them to say what they want,

    Kangoures had and have big places in the army and in govermant, in which country happens that?


    Kangoures are not regognised as Albanian minority, no matter Albania goverment wants to, but as a Greek minority.
    if they want to save their language it is up to them, and believe me they do in their own clubs and organisations, as their language-dialect exist for >800 years in Greece, so all efforts of Albanians to open Albanian schools in Greece are just an effort to use Greek money to be spend so Albanians in Greece learn Albanian, and not about Arbanites.

    if Albania wants to open schools in Greece about Albanian language it is up to them,
    let them spend the money as Greece does in Foreign lands like Germany Australia Russia USA etc,

    YOU CAN NOT FORCE GREECE TO SPEND MONEY SO THAT ALBANIANS THAT CAME AT '97 after the pyramid collapse LEARN ALBANIAN,
    FORCE ALBANIAN GOVERMENT TO SPEND MONEY TO BUILD SCHOOLS FOR THE ALBANIAN IMMIGRANTS


    the kangourika language-dialect today is spoken by >35 000 to 50 000 after a population of about 60 000, how they manage? after 200 Greek state and more than 800 years in greece if they are hunt by Greeks as you say?
    cause that is a myth, they have their own schools, their own teachers and professors and magazines and even a search and develop area in the university of Athens,
    the rest are just political games.



    When Albania pay money so that North Epirotans learn Greek,
    When Albania spend money so that Aromani of Albania learn their Latin Language,
    then Speak about the others, of anti-minority policy.

    Same is with Turkey,
    When it opens the old Greek scools of Con/polis when the big school of Chalke opens again then we might speak again,

    as about Fyrom? no comment,
    Pan-Slavism at its maximum.

    Well, i am new here. But you guys typically use references to confirm your theories?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Gods I am tired of hearing what ever,

    First Yehunda's work did not say that pelasgians are Hebrew, but Hatti language is the mother of Pelasgian Etruscan Phoenician Aramaic.

    Second the A kola and the rest charlatanism is over, They were speaking mostly to People that like to hear fairytales but did not Search. the Ismail Kandere Method,

    Third, E-V13 in Balkans as Founder effect? and what about the law of Diversities? we just overlap him yeah?


    I personally believed that the time of Hotza is ended, but I see it is not,


    and Arvanitika is Tosk!!!!! and which Arbanitika? why don't you search how many are the Arbanites and how many Speak the Language?
    Have you ever Read Mpotsari?
    does Suliotet with Leyktra Arbanites spoke the same?


    Search the Data. in another post Epirotes who by STrabo are the Archegonus Greeks Γραικοι are named as non Greeks!!!!

    whatever and whenever,
    I even heard that Greek revolution started by Albanians!!!!!!
    from someone that never read Greek modern History,

    I even heard that Albania is a poor land, although the estimations and the search say that is the most rich in Balkans in water reserves, in silver in asphalt in minerals,
    I was working in the project about the Hydro-plants
    the one that few years before made riots in Tirana (when people were shoot)

    when I was a Kid I was thinking like a kid,
    Now I can't, cause I learn to judge by facts and not by heart.
    even today I make many mistakes, but at least I have Learned to search the Truth,

    I know that nobody here will take me serious, cause I say bad things to your Hears, I represent the enemy to some in here
    But at least some of you who read this understand the charlatanism that is pushed by charlatans.

    DON'T WAIT TO RESPECT YOU IF YOU DON'T RESPECT YOUR SHELF

    there are countries with few pages of history in modern world that are ahead of countries with millions of pages.

    E-V13 founder effect??
    "Second the A kola and the rest charlatanism is over"

    Aristir Kola was an important scholar who was eliminated from EYP, greek secrete police, and serbian sercete police,for his contribution, for the liberation of Kosova.

    "the Ismail Kandere Method,"

    His name is ISMAIL KADARE.

    "I personally believed that the time of Hotza is ended, but I see it is not,"

    Of course, is finished. Now we are free to speak even about Arvaniti people, during Hodja regime was prohibited. The question is: Greece will continue together with Iran to be an Theokracy, or will be an Democracy?

    "and Arvanitika is Tosk!!!!! and which Arbanitika"?


    Arvanitika, is spoken in different subdialects, all part of Tosk dialect.
    But there are some villages which started from toponims we can conclude that their origine was from North Albania , like Has in Athens ore Kelmend, if i am not wrong in Thessaly.

    "why don't you search how many are the Arbanites and how many Speak the Language"?

    It is strictly forbidden by the Greek government.

    Have you ever Read Mpotsari?
    does Suliotet with Leyktra Arbanites spoke the same?"


    Suliotes are Christian Cham and their dialect is cham is part of the Tosk dialect.

    "I even heard that Greek revolution started by Albanians!!!!!!
    from someone that never read Greek modern History,"

    Of course Greece was liberate from the Ottoman occupation by Arvaniti,i.e. Albanians, not just started from them. Of course there were other factors, such Greate Powers, Russia, GB, France. But speaking about internal factors we can say that Arvaniti,i.e. Albanians, liberate Greece. Can you tell me a name, a greek hero?
    An citation just to make clear this idea:
    I went in the evening to ThouveneFs and Marshal- Randon's receptions. At the Hotel des Affaires Etrangeres I found in the most magnificent private rooms in the world about fifteen persons. Among them was General Kalergi, the author of the Greek Revolution of 1843, now Minister from Greece. I asked if my acquaintance, R_____ was still Minister of Foreign Affairs ? Kalergi. — Certainly not, or 1 should not be here. We have had a change of Ministry. We talked of Garibaldi.If he establishes himself for a few weeks he will succeed, not by the aid of the Sicilians, who are a feeble race, but by that of Italians, Frenchmen, and perhaps Germans, who will flock to join so distinguished a partisan and so attrac- tive a cause. In that case the Sicilian revolution will resemble ours. The real Greeks would never have driven out the Turks. They were too degraded even to wish for liberty. For many years after we had achieved our own independence they called the times of Turkish rule ^the good times.^ It was the Albanians and Macedonians and -foreigners who fought the Turks. Conversations with M. Thiers, M. Guizot, and other distinguished persons, during the Second Empire; (1878) VOL II p 304-305

    I don`t agree totally with this gentelman, because my idea is that
    Greeks simply did not exist.

    "there are countries with few pages of history in modern world that are ahead of countries with millions of pages". Whohaa, you are a new fresh nation.
    About Albania:

    This man, Robert Elsie is the autor of this book, Robert Elsie (2010). Historical Dictionary of Albania. Historical Dictionaries of Europe 75. Scarecrow Press. ISBN 978-0-8108-6188-6.
    During a TV show the director of the program asked him:
    Google translate
    First I want to share with the viewer the reason why you are in “Albania” this time. Books that you will have the vocabulary historical promote Albania and Kosovo in Albanian and English. Can you explain to viewers what these books?
    These books came out in English recently, is a periodical books that includes every country in the world and I was charged with designing a publication for Albania. Called historical dictionary of Albania and Kosovo but in the end are more like vocabulary, general encyclopedia with information not only historical but also the culture, economy, geography, etc.. I started with the volume of Albania. I put a limit on the volume no more than 250 pages needed to do this and when I finished more than 500 pages. The publisher was a bit disappointed. She said, "If we walk so, the volume of the country will come greater than the volume of Russia" nonetheless accepted and actually went higher than that of Russia, this small encyclopedia of Albania.


    "when i was a Kid I was thinking like a kid,
    Now I can't, cause I learn to judge by facts and not by heart.
    even today I make many mistakes, but at least I have Learned to search the Truth,
    "

    I will give you a little help, finding the truth.
    Thank you.

  16. #66
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    pfffffffff

    Albanian propaganda learner and radio transmission.

    pfffffffffffffff

    every linguist laugh with the lawer who wanted to be the great linguist, writting whatever

    as for rest,

    I am not going to repat my shelf,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    pfffffffff

    Albanian propaganda learner and radio transmission.

    pfffffffffffffff

    every linguist laugh with the lawer who wanted to be the great linguist, writting whatever

    as for rest,

    I am not going to repat my shelf,
    The lesson started bad. I promise you in all my posts, i will never, repeat never i will make use of albanian materials, or "albanian propaganda", because in that case you have to log out imediatly. I promise you i will use only greek and indipendent sources.

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    Let`s start with the famous question made by the first King of Greece, King Otto. "Where are the greeks"?
    Any idea? Can you help us finding them? Meanwhile i am going to jump into the sea. Bye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Bardhyl View Post
    Let`s start with the famous question made by the first King of Greece, King Otto. "Where are the greeks"?
    Any idea? Can you help us finding them? Meanwhile i am going to jump into the sea. Bye.

    Lets finish with what the famous old man said, Kolokotronis Γερος του Μωρια,
    'First for the Albanian is crime and money'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Lets finish with what the famous old man said, Kolokotronis Γερος του Μωρια,
    'First for the Albanian is crime and money'
    When did he dais that ? Before he was prisoner or after ? Before he saw his parents and friends including his son to be kille, poisoned and imprisoned ore after ?
    BTW can you tell me how was killed Gjergj Karaskaqi ,the famous hero?

    P. S. No greek hero name again ? Where are the greeks

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Bardhyl View Post
    When did he dais that ? Before he was prisoner or after ? Before he saw his parents and friends including his son to be kille, poisoned and imprisoned ore after ?
    BTW can you tell me how was killed Gjergj Karaskaqi ,the famous hero?

    P. S. No greek hero name again ? Where are the greeks

    radio transmission of Albanian propaganda,
    pffffff]

    where king otto said that and for what reason?
    surely not the reason you would like, too, ssearch why, just put your mind to think,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    radio transmission of Albanian propaganda,
    pffffff]

    where king otto said that and for what reason?
    surely not the reason you would like, too, ssearch why, just put your mind to think,
    When King Otto of Greece came in Greece in 1830, he hardly heard anyone speak in Greek and so he asked: "Where are the Greeks in Athens?"

    His court looked at each other and answered: "There are no Greeks, but do not be troubled because this Albanian population will always be faithful to your monarchy".

    Zaharias Papantoniou, "King Otto"

    Also you can read FINLAY, and a bunch of other scholars .
    As you see is "greek propaganda".

    For the curiosity of non greek members, Kolokotronis alias Bythguri (Stoneass in english ) was an albanian bandit, today he is the most important hero of Greek Revolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Bardhyl View Post
    When King Otto of Greece came in Greece in 1830, he hardly heard anyone speak in Greek and so he asked: "Where are the Greeks in Athens?"

    His court looked at each other and answered: "There are no Greeks, but do not be troubled because this Albanian population will always be faithful to your monarchy".

    Zaharias Papantoniou, "King Otto"

    Also you can read FINLAY, and a bunch of other scholars .
    As you see is "greek propaganda".

    For the curiosity of non greek members, Kolokotronis alias Bythguri (Stoneass in english ) was an albanian bandit, today he is the most important hero of Greek Revolution.

    ΗΑΗΑΗΑΗΑΗΑΗΑ

    you are funny you know,

    so an Albanian bandit, with Greek surname said about Albanians 'Πρωτον δια τον Αλβανον το χρημα και το εγκλημα'
    besides κωλον and Κιτρος or kotros = kolokotronis first is Greek and second is half Greek half thracian,
    compare κοτυωρα, Κωθορον, Kotrys etc


    besidew about who send him to prison,
    ask the one you mention, Otto Friedrich Ludwig von Wittelsbach, who knew Hellenistic Greek and koine , but not the modern idioms, so all spoken were unknown to him
    although Athens was inhabited also by Arbanites, so I am not impressed, and you say nothing to me,
    It is like I go to Moschopolis of 18th century before Albanians burn it to the ground, expect to hear Albanian, and instead I hear Aromani Vlach,
    I would also say the same

    So your Lesson 2 finished,
    you lose again,

    want to go to lesson 3?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    ΗΑΗΑΗΑΗΑΗΑΗΑ

    you are funny you know,

    so an Albanian bandit, said about Albanians 'Πρωτον δια τον Αλβανον το χρημα και το εγκλημα'
    besides κωλον and Κιτρος or kotros = kolokotronis first is Greek and second is half Greek half thracian,
    compare κοτυωρα, Κωθορον, Kotrys etc


    besidew about who send him to prison,
    ask the one you mention, Otto Friedrich Ludwig von Wittelsbach, who knew Hellenistic Greek and koine , but not the modern idioms, so all spoken were unknown to him
    although Athens was inhabited also by Arbanites, so I am not impressed, and you say nothing to me,
    It is like I go to Moschopolis of 18th century before Albanians burn it to the ground, expect to hear Albanian, and instead I hear Aromani Vlach,
    I would also say the same

    So your Lesson 2 finished,
    you lose again,

    want to go to lesson 3?

    You learned something, Athens was just a albanian village, like Peleponesi, all Attiki, Islands,etc.
    So back to the Real question :"Where are the greeks"?
    It was not question of different linguistic experiment made by greeks in 200 years of modern Greece. The nobels of court answered to their King :"There are no greeks, your citizens are albanians, faithfully to your monarchy .
    It's brought to us by an greek author.
    It's said that King Otto was furios with his staff, His words "Why i lose time learning greek, why you don't you told me to learn albanian"?
    About Kolokotronis he was an albanian,and in a moment when he saw all those peoples including himself, finished killed and imprisoned by the greek goverment and Phanarioti Loby he said :
    ....o skilos. ...o fanariotis.
    ....this dog. ... the phanariotis.
    Congratulation you are making significant progress.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Bardhyl View Post
    You learned something, Athens was just a albanian village, like Peleponesi, all Attiki, Islands,etc.
    So back to the Real question :"Where are the greeks"?
    It was not question of different linguistic experiment made by greeks in 200 years of modern Greece. The nobels of court answered to their King :"There are no greeks, your citizens are albanians, faithfully to your monarchy .
    It's brought to us by an greek author.
    It's said that King Otto was furios with his staff, His words "Why i lose time learning greek, why you don't you told me to learn albanian"?
    About Kolokotronis he was an albanian,and in a moment when he saw all those peoples including himself, finished killed and imprisoned by the greek goverment and Phanarioti Loby he said :
    ....o skilos. ...o fanariotis.
    ....this dog. ... the phanariotis.
    Congratulation you are making significant progress.
    Now you are going to tell me that Greeks are Albaninas who learn a wrong language?

    first of all try to understand the difference among news, search, science, and jokes,
    Papntonioy was a kind of literrary joker, ανεκδοτα, for pleasant reading.

    second,

    no ones denies that Arbanites came at 1200 after the invitation of a latin ruler, a foreign one crusader, of the duchy of Athens,
    Arbanitika is an ancient dialect, more ancient than modern Albanian that strangely share much Italian and Greek than modern Albanian,
    about phanatiote and Con/polis Greeks is another case,
    are going to teach me the mistakes of the Greek revolution?
    or you want to tell me that All Greeks are Arbanites?

    and to finish with you,
    try the numbers given by the same Arbanites clubs and unions, instead of guesses,

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