Albanians (OFFTOPIC Macedonians)

[Besir Bajrami]

\
I sence again that you imply albanian decent from Illyrians, there is no continuation, I'm sorry. Albanian started to appear and were recorded in the middel ages, not before.
Just another nationalist.

This part of your post, is provocative, outside the topic (and makes me to react... in this way the topic deviates),and it's continuation of the propaganda that some of the southern slavs and new greeks, not not convenient the albanian autochthony, for millions of devouring reasons. The administrators should take action when we found these kind of deviations, thus promote long explanations (from another member), to make the "question" clear, and what is not related directly whith the topic!
I tried to post here some of the objectives of this propaganda, but administrators here, could not have been withheld from the gruesome sight of the bitter of that albanian reality (That's why, now I will not post photo from the massacres of children, the elderly and Albanian womens, from the albanian "neighbors" (south slavs and new greeks).

In this topic, i give you so many arguments (from international studies), against your way of thinking http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page7 ...but simply, you're not interested sincerely about this question and you dont even read anything in this direction.
But, let's leave in a side international scientists, tell me from who you want materials, from free slavic scholars, or Greek (the only two albanian neighbors, who still devolop a propganda against albanian autochthony, because they still have pretense to take more from this small remaining land of the Albanians, or if it possible to assimilate all the Albanians what are still left, because their identity creates much problems about the monopoly of historical glory, that is created onerously!

Ok let's give you a synthesis:) ...one book from a slavic and greek researcher in the same time.
"The Albanians are generally considered to be the most ancient ethnic group in Southeastern Europe. They are the descendants of pre-Hellenic stock that was pushed back into the mountains of the western Balkans by the Hellenes and the Slavs. In this respect the Albanians may be compared to the Celts of the British Isles who were forced into the mountains of Wales, Scotland, and Ireland by the Anglo-Saxon invaders. The Albanian language is organically distinct from the neighboring Slavic and Greek languages in the same manner that the Celtic language is different from the Germanic".
The Balkans since 1453, Leften Stavros Stavrianos, Traian Stoianovich, C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, 2008, p. 496-497

A fragment of the above in a concise manner that includes the thousands years of the Albanian Odyssey. One of the authors is slav and the other from a greek. Both were educated in the U.S. increased, while the Balkan and its bloody history has been the vocation of their historical research.
I Chose exactly why these two historians is their impartiality, meaning the lack of nationalist passions, of whom suffer no less from their colleagues in south slavis states and Greece.
Now, I dont want to make you a list of so much other well known slavic and greek scientists, who came to the same scientific conclusions (like the albanolog Milan Sufflay, who was killed by serbs, only because of his work about albanian autochtony... Einstein was the one who reacted more for his murder), because you are not a person who have a free mind, to accept facts and argument. You simply don't read. I gave you a lot of books in the links above, but but it is vain. You are simply a spamer and a pseudo nationalist. From people like you, science has suffered too much!

But it's interesting to know that albanians who attempt to argues or to clash whith someone like you, is not nationalism, but is simple REACTION, not ACTION. All the albanian philosophy is reaction, not action. And only reacion enabled us to survive, no matter that we are the bigest loosers in the World history until today, in relation of prerequisites that how we had to be. "Albanian nationalism" in itself, is neither more nor less than simply the national awareness that, in comparison with that of other nations, for besides that it is not predatory, or dangerous, it is so unique and also very controversial, that can not clearly define how the Albanian ethnocentrism, in itself mean multiculturalism (globalization / Khalifa), which is reflected in all components of social culture, to religion. This phenomenon undoubtedly has to do with being Albanian, as the older extract the creation of humanity and deep in our subconscious, all mankind may perceive as a 'nation' alone or 'fellow'.

- And yes, I agree that Balkan nationalism is the worst!
Only for south slavs, and greeks and any individual (not a free scientist) around the world, who has an emotional affinity with these nations, is a problem to accept the fact that albanians are autochthon in this region and they(alb) are there before them. Greeks started to accept the ties of albanians whith illyrians, thracians & epirotes, but they dont accept the ties of albanians whith pelasgians, because than the credits of this well known greek historic glory all around the world, will be presented by these poor and 'underdeveloped' people = shqiptars (sons of the eagle). That's why Greece wanted the region of south Albanian whith at any cost, and they pay the poor albanians in this region (provide pensions) to declaire themselfs today as a greek, because they know that this region and the ancient culture what still survived among these people, is the heart of pelasgian civilisation, and as a result, that region rised the glory of ancient greeks, which is presented today by milion of manipulation, by this religion state (not a national state) of Greece today, what was created by the european powers, after the breakdown of the Ottoman Empire. This orthodox state of Greece and north orthodox Serbia, was created on the occupied territories of Albanians who accepted Islam. So, the creation of these states, was a revenge against those Albanians, who thought that the better way to deal whith slavic invasions, was the alliance with the Turks, but with the condition of autonomy, to preserve the national idenditity. In the same way, some albanians thought to make an alliance whith the germans, italians... in brief, this "foundling" nation of Europe, whith no sisters, brothers, parents and childrens, like every nation around has, who survived and preserved in the mountains in Balkans, from permanent invasions, the original ancient identity of this region.
In the other hand, free scientists tell us that illyrians, thracian, epirotes or macedonians (like thraco-illyrian combination), in fact are pelasgians, and for greeks, this race was barbarian (foreign).
But finally, as some greeks accept the ancient origin of albanians and ties whith illyrian, thracian and epirot culture whith albanian, they also today accept that new greek state, was created from the albanian orthodox blood who prefer to call them self helens, and other muslim albanian preserve their authentic identity(language, symbols, culture at all) as a shqiptar (sons of the eagle-pelasgian): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p98D7Fql1Dk

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._5968696_n.jpg
Greek constitution in 1821
This is the approach that today Greece and "new greek nation" is formed. Here's the constitution of 1821 in Greece
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1227707_n.jpg
Here is translated in english:
http://i55.tinypic.com/29qjyuu.jpg
...is clearly seen in what basis the Greek state was formed, thus clearly stating that the Greeks had no need to talk Greek, or to have Greek blood, enough was the religion (ie Orthodox) and this policy made possible the absorption (or assimilation) of many other ethnicities.
Also, just like in north, north-west and north-east of the Balkans, that catholic and othodox albanians were assimilated from south slavic population, also in south too othodox albanians were assimilated in greeks, and become more greek, than other races what were inhabites the Greece in that time (vlachs, mongols, slavs, ethiopians...) And when an albanian become slav, or greek, than he did not have that normative or moral code agains enemy, or culture of behavior like an albanian, and with that specific energy and that anger from permanent suffering, that characterizes this nation, they (assimilated albanians), when they felt themselves as Greek, Slavic, turk... they have led the wars against its remaining Albanians who survived from assimilations (because albanians are know like a brave soilders). But, when an original albanian, never take part in the massacres. They have a high moral code in these questions:
Dr. Alexander Lambert: (Europe sabotage albanian history in the nineteenth century, when Illyria was called the Balkans)
Europe should be proud to have in her bosom the Albanian nation, which should be evaluated as more tolerant ... there is no case that the Albanians in any moment of history they are no recognized as a nation that has attacked other nations and they never did not take part in the massacres. It is known that the Albanians have to shame to kill an enemy who surrenders... and that many Albanians have excellent running if the empire, whether other countries. Likewise, in his other Albanians have left their name in different fields of sciences in various countries of the world...
Anyway, do not expand more my explanation, let's speak now for slavs:

- South slavs are more frustrated from the autochthony of albanians. Today, croatians, slovenians, and some bosnians and bullgarians, accept that original identity of ancient cultures and peoples of this region, is presented today by albanians (shqiptars=sons of the eagle), even that in their population is a large percent of ancient people, who were assimilated by south slavs, but serbs and slavo-macedonians, still don't accept this simple fact, because they still pretend to continue tp occupied or dissolve this small albanian territory what is left (populated by Albanians who continue to resist assimilation), because they wanted their sea. And they worked permanently with their pseudo academics, to atack the conclusions from international free scientists,institutes and institutions of world renown, they are trying to deviate the conlusions of ancient writers also, fabricate new ridiculous stories, deny and tried to stop any presentation of Albanian culture internationally (in that region where Slavic invaders operated), and they work hard permanently in this direction.
Simply, they used the lack of albanian state, institutions, and interest about these questions, because the primar task about albanians was and maybe still is, TO SURVIVE! - And for albanians, all scientific work in this direction, was realized from free international scientist, who have not had reason or interest from them, to favored this nation that went to extinction (and still is in the same risk).
Today, for international scientist is no primary task to prevent the albanian history, that's why in internet still is evident the south slavic and greek propaganda. Albanian institutions still dont wory about these questions, their interes is only the politics and money... but whith a few young albanian people today who know to read and thanks to internet (again not our institutions) that allows us access to the books of international scientists, we will re-inform the world, to unmask this racism, pseudo-nationalism against my unfortunate people.
Finally, we have records of the arrival of south slavs for the first time in these areas...
Also, we have records of arrival of ancient, and new greeks for the first time in these areas...
But:
http://oi53.tinypic.com/jhcvf5.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3956048_n.jpg

If there is a truly autochthonous race in the world it is certainly the Albanian race, as it is formed of the descendants of the Pelasgians and has kept for centuries the unique qualities of energy and intelligence which characterized its ancestors.
http://books.google.com/books?id=tPE...ed=0CCsQ6AEwAA
...
Albanian indeed the right to look on Greek, Roman, Norman, Angevin, Servian, Ventian and Ottoman, as alike intruders whithin his own immemorial land
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4863425_n.jpg
... and thousends of books, from international free scientists, institutes and institutions of world renown until today, that meet, with different methods of study, that are adding more books and conclusions of this level, and now i read somone like you, who even didn't now nothing about this people, to make conclusions whith dry words, whithout any contra argument. This is what i call pseudo nationalis, racism, hate...
Read in this topic some of arguments from the method of comparison in lingiustic, DNA, folk elements, symbols, physic anthropology, and the culture at all of these people. If you are interested in this question, you should read the two sides, the propaganda, and the international studies in the other side, and make your approach:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page6


- This is the goal of the refusal of Albanian autochthony... and this is what I call racism, pseudo nationalism, unhuman behavior, or actions without any human or moral code... only to disappeared from the earth this survived "foundling" nation of Europe, whith no sisters, brothers, parents and childrens, like every nation around has, who survived and preserved in the mountains in Balkans, from permanent invasions, the original ancient identity of this region... only for serbs to have access in the sea!:
In all maps, albanians are a result of expensions (invasions). We have survival history and as you go deeper in time, will see that our territory is larger. Restriction (contraction) of our territory is continuous occurrence since prehistory, we can't boast with any map, except the oldest ones that comfort us a little bit (because contraction is lower).
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...9&l=2734f5e6e0

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...18031154_n.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ba...%281861%29.jpg

Genocide against Albanians
- Death Toll: 120,000 – 270,000 Albanians of both sexes and all ages.
255,878 Albanians expelled.
- Genocide against Albanians in the First Yugoslavia
- DR. V. CUBRILOVIC
THE EXPULSION OF THE ALBANIANS
Memorandum presented
on March 7, 1937
in Belgrade
- The Expulsion of the Albanians
- The Problem of Colonization of the Southern Regions
- The International Problems of Colonization
- The Mode of Evacuation
- The Organization of the Evacuation
- Depopulating and Repopulating Regions
- The Colonization Apparatus
http://espressostalinist.wordpress.c...nian-genocide/
Memorandum of Serbian Head of state on asimilation and expultion of Albanians from Kingdom of Serbes Kroat Slovenes
https://www.facebook.com/notes/mirsa...52432388186718
GENOCIDE AGAINST ALBANIANS (Kosovo)
GRAPHIC CONTENTS: Some of the 15 bodies of ethnic Albanians, what have been massacred, are seen in the village of Obrija, in the Drenica area southwest of Pristina, Yugoslavia, Tuesday Sept. 29 1998. Tensions between Serbs and Albanians were stoked with the discovery of 15 Albanian men, women and children _ apparently refugees _ who were shot in the back of the head at a makeshift camp. They were massacred by the Serbs on Sunday. There was no immediate Serb response. The bodies were seen by diplomats from the United States and other countries visiting some of the estimated 275,000 refugees driven from their homes in the seven-month crackdown. (AP Photo/Adam Brown) AP - (I can't post the photo!)
THIS CHILD WHAT IS SEEN IN PHOTO IS VALMIR ADEM DELIU- ONE YEAR CHILD massacred by SERBS
(I can't post the photo from the massacre, because of the disallowance from the administrators)
Massacre in upper Arbri of Drenica - September 26, 1998
https://www.facebook.com/media
(I can't post the photo from the massacre, because of the disallowance from the administrators)
KOSOVO: Ethnic Cleansing redux
http://www.zeriyt.com/kosovo-ethnic-...t27054.15.html


(...and "albanian nationalism" if it exist at all, was and is a REACTION, not a ACTION... Dr. Alexander Lambert: Europe should be proud to have in her bosom the Albanian nation, which should be evaluated as more tolerant ... there is no case that the Albanians in any moment of history they are no recognized as a nation that has attacked other nations and they never did not take part in the massacres. It is known that the Albanians have to shame to kill an enemy who surrenders...
And this is a REACION that makes us to survive and in this time too: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3728697_n.jpg )

Greek Genocide Against the Albanians (there were involved and albanians othodox who became more greek than the greeks and still today the orthodox albanians, declaire themself as a greek, to live better in Greece like a greek)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_b1vUeML1YN...+ne+cameri.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_b1vUeML1YN...E/S230/169.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_b1vUeML1YN...U/S230/171.jpg
http://diatribe-column.blogspot.com/...am-chumps.html
http://chameria.blogspot.com/
http://www.illyrians.org/genonc.html
Albania's Golgotha
The atrocities committed by the Serbs against the Albanians at the present time are not different from those perpetrated in 1912-1913, as described in Albania's Golgotha.
http://www.alb-net.com/juka1.htm
Here (Drenica) are massacred 147 Albanian, all old men, women and children
(I can't post the photo from the massacre, because of the disallowance from the administrators)
Mass migration of Albanians in Turkey
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._7826581_n.jpg
From 'Naçertanie' Ilia Garashaninit - 1844
Genocide against Albanians
Masakra e Tivarit
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6405533_n.jpg
Genocide against Albanians
Masacre of Tivar after ww2 in Montenegro ~4300 albanians killed
Genocide against Albanians
KOSOVO CRISIS
[Mod edit: Please do not copy and paste entire articles from the Internet. Use summaries and links instead. The article Besir refers to can be located here.]

Now, let's speak about ancient macedonians... stop this approach and talk scientifically, whith historical arguments, whith "cold" head, whithout hate, with patriotism, but whithout pseduo nationalism... learn to behave like a valuable HUMAN ('The human' this is a big word I think)... people are not toys!

[zanipolo]

@Besir Bajrami

You are a very confusing individual...........2/3 weeks ago you get me to translate one of you documents and it says Albanians are ancient Molossians and not something else. It siad Molossians. Are you not satified with this ?

Do you have any idea or any clue what you are aiming for ?...........you know you need to aim for the truth even if it is against the propaganda that you where raised/taught .

I will not reply to you anymore when you place multi attachments.

[Yetos]

The thread is About Makedonians,

now if you also consider Makedonians Albanians then no comment,

try to understand that truth is above propaganda,

no body denies the existance of Albanians,
but from that to Albanians from italy to Japan is very far,
now if your problem is Kossyfo then suitable threads exists,

[Besir Bajrami]

@ Zanipolo
I see that you can't make a difference about a single tribe, belonging to a more inclusive culture and being presented with their name (whith other tribes in common too).
Here you have the answer about your dilemma 2/3 weeks ago.
It's interesting how you remember that wonderfull piece of book, and not all other books that I posted about you. It's imported to understand that all these books are telling the same thing. From the ancient writers... from the beginning of the period of illumination in Europe (when europeans began to make a lot of scientific studies, to understand the truth of ancient Europe, without being influenced by nationalism)... to today.
For example only from german scientists, who make the same conclusions about albanians, from the albanolgy (using the method of comparison of languages, ethymology...); latter and from anthropolgy (physic, today and genetic too); archeology; symbolism; and all other elements of a culture at all... are:
G. V. Jajbnic;
J. G. Herder;
J. Thunman;
F. Bop;
J. R. von Xylander;
J. G. von Hahn;
J. F. Fallmerayer;
T. Momsen;
P. Kretchmer;
H. Fromer;
P. R. Franke...

But I think you are an italian. Ok except that book about Molossians, try this one: “Rivista di studi politici internazionali, Volume 60”
Giacinto Bosco, Florence. Facoltà di scienze politiche "Cesare Alfieri.", Università di Firenze. Studio fiorentino di politica estera
Sansoni, 1993 >
"La storia non manipolata prova infatti che il territorio chiamato in serbo Kosovo, e con tale nome ormai accettato internazionalmente, fin dalle epoche più remote, molto prima anche della discesa delle tribù elleniche, era abitato dagli Illiri (ilir = libero), i cui eredi diretti sono noti oggi come Albanesi."
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...6_524923_n.jpg

Just tell me if you want other books from italian scientists who have written about these people (from ancient times, to today). Or from other french, english, american, even slavic & greek scientist

+ something to remind:
Victoria magazine, Volume 9
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4973691_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...9_545192_n.jpg
A companion to Latin studies
Sir John Edwin Sandys
Cambridge University Press, 1913 (second edit.)
(By the way, he is talking about these Thraco-Illyrian... and now Albanian tatoos http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page5)

The Trojans also spoke a kind of Illyrian dialect, and through them several Illyrian words came into Greek.
pp.116
[...]
According to Kretschmer the recessive accent of Hellenes is due to Panellenes (also in the second book of the Iliad); it was originally *Hellanes. Now –anes is certainly a non-Greek, Illyrian suffix, as can be seen clearly from the names of the Agrianes, Athamanes, Akarnanes, Atintanes, Arktanes, Enchelanes (or better, Engelanes)...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._2266786_n.jpg

Albanian > Greek
Albanian (Etruscan) > Latin
Europe, Stanford's compendium of geogr. and travel
Frederick William Rudler, George Goudie Chisholm
Andrew Crombie Ramsay (sir)

London, Edward Standford, 55, Charing Cross, S.W
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...92396591_n.jpg
(+ ...before it had split https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...7_586144_n.jpg... that means Albanian = Pelasgian
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3&l=121558727c)

+
Epeirotes and Macedonian languages ​​belong to the Illyrian family, Pelasgian, today Albanian, the language of Skipetarian (or Arvanite/Arnaut/Arbresh/Arber/n)
The Genesis of the earth and of man *: or, The history of creation, and the antiquity and races of mankind considered on Biblical and other grounds Edward William Lane
Reginald Stuart Poole
Edition 2
Williams and Norgate
...

or:
These people are generally and in all probability accurately identified as the result of the combination of the ancient Illyrians, Macedonians, and Epirotes, who were all the descendants of the more ancient Pelasgians.
The American review of reviews, Volume 47 - Albert Shaw - Review of Reviews, 1913

Recent French research on the Etruscans suggests that the Albanians could well be the descendants of the Pelasgians, a related race inhabiting the Balkans many centuries before the arrival of the Greeks.
p.304
The Geographical magazine, Volume 36
Michael Huxley
Geographical Press, 1963

+
We are able to trace with tolerable certainty the long series of historical transformations by which the ancient Epirotes, Illyrians, and Macedonians, were reborn during the Middle Ages into the modern Albanian race.
[...]
Now it was, however, that the Illyrians and men of Epirus constituted a breakwater against the floods. For a long time they maintained a defensive attitude against the Teutonic and Slavonic races on the north and west. At length the Mohammedans came in from the East, and the people whom we may now call Albanians had to face about and defend themselves against Islam. The Turks made little headway against this resolute enemy. A popular leader appeared in the celebrated George Castriota, whom the Turks called Scanderbeg. Time and again Mohammed II, after his conquest of Constantinople, set his armies against the Albanians, only to suffer defeat at their hands.
[...]
This is to say that the modern Greeks and the Albanians are at the end of the twigs of the first branch of the Aryan tree which we have been considering.
[...]
Thus we have presented for our consideration the modern Greek and Albanian races as the repre sentatives of the first division of the old Aryan family of mankind.
Ridpath's history of the world - Ridpath, John Clark, Volume: 2 - New York, Merrill & Baker

Except Albanians, none of peoples of the Balkans was not native, they were all conquering...
Europe and the Turk: a pattern of alliances, 1350-1700 (Edition reprint)
Dorothy Margaret Vaughan
AMS Press, 1976
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._1683867_n.jpg

Albanians are the oldest race in Europe - older than Latin and Greek populations
The Biblical world, Volume 41

William Rainey Harper, Ernest De Witt Burton, Shailer Mathews
Composed and Printed By The University of Chicago Press Chicago, Illinois. U.S.A.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._5296689_n.jpg

Albanian language is the most ancient tongue in Europe and is the mother of latin and greek...
Thus pressed back, the Illyrian, Epirote and Macedonian clans consolidated themselfs in what modern geography knows as Albania...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6004692_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...8_934157_n.jpg
National Geographic: vol 59

UP to the present time the Albanians have been looked upon in Europe as the ferocious auxiliaries of the Turks and to them have been imputed the crimes which desolate the orient, but the fact is that matters are very different.
If there is a truly autochthonous race in the world it is certainly the Albanian race, as it is formed of the descendants of the Pelasgians and has kept for centuries the unique qualities of energy and intelligence which characterized its ancestors.
In the whole of Macedonia the Albanian language is spoken and the villages of Janina and Scutari are alone peopled by Albanians.
p.587
Public opinion, Volume 34
The Public Opinion Co.,
Princeton University

The Encyclopaedia Britannica
http://oi53.tinypic.com/jhcvf5.jpg

Alber Pike
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3956048_n.jpg

Also, Skipetar blood must be found far south of the present Skipetar area, even as Bask (Iberic) blood is to be found in the non-Iberic parts of Spain and Portugal and France.
Page 351
The Encyclopaedia Britannica, or Dictionary of Arts, Sciences, and General Literature: Ent - Fra, Volume 9, Edition 8
Adam and Charles Black, Edinburgh, MDCCCLV
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4276547_n.jpg

Tumalare ancient tombs in Greece as those of Theroic roy heroic; their denomination comes from Albanian language...
The Journal of Hellenic studies
Autori: Society for the Promotion of Hellenic Studies (London, England)
Volume: 2,

London : Published by the Council of the Society
KRAUS REPRINT
Nendeln/Liechtenstein 1971 Germany
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6989610_n.jpg
...

Albania is the only country in the Balkan region where the feeling of nationality appears to be independent of religion
The East end of Europe: The report of an unofficial mission to the European provinces of Turkey on the eve of the revolution
Allen Upward, J. Murray

Albanians remain today unchanged representatives of prehistoric Pelasgians
America and the great war for humanity and freedom
Johnson, Willis Fletcher
Philadelphia, The John C. Winston company

Almost the entire population of Eleusis is Albanian and speak Albanian - a language quite different from the Greek language, and which is claimed by many, to be a descendant of the ancient Pelasgian language. It is still the language of the nation in Albania (Epirus), the country in which the Pelasgian Zeus was worshiped.
"Greece and the Greeks" -tr.[from Lifvet i gamla verden] by M. Howitt-Fredrika Bremer
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._7498786_n.jpg


The true history of mankind will be written only when Albanians participate in its writing
Maximilian Lambertz
Albanien erzählt: ein Einblick in die albanische Literatur. Übersetzt und herausgegeben. Literatur der Volksdemokratien, 7
(Berlin: Volk und Welt)
191 pp.
...and so many other scientific conclusions, which come as a result of the methods mentioned above.


@Yetos (former iapetoc)
First, try to read all my post, to understand why you saw the name Kosovo there (there are and materials about new greeks too). Not only to reply about a single word. By the way, you have serious problem whith the perception of history at all. You want only to reach the attention here, by denying everything. You use the fact that the truth is not absolute, and you abuse whith this relativity of the truth, by denying everything, even the name or existence of a nation at all.


__________________________________
More precisely about ancient Macedonia
(Attention: These are not empty words, influenced by nationalism, but are international studies that have not had reason to become an instrument of nationalism for this small, poor and suffered nation, called "sons of the eagle")

... and what about ancient Macedonia ?

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=1f8bcdeead

- Albanians are not like slavo-macedonians to offend the other ethnic groups just for chauvinistic pourpouses. We have nothing against the greeks, they are our neigbours and if we want to be respected we must show some dignity not to fall in the same level of slavo-macedonians. The real enemies stand behind what is called "greek nation". These people mostly living in mount Athos and in some government buildings are the real people who need a DNA test. I bet the result would be: blood from another solar-system.

[zanipolo]

@ Zanipolo
I see that you can't make a difference about a single tribe, belonging to a more inclusive culture and being presented with their name (whith other tribes in common too).
Here you have the answer about your dilemma 2/3 weeks ago.
It's interesting how you remember that wonderfull piece of book, and not all other books that I posted about you. It's imported to understand that all these books are telling the same thing. From the ancient writers... from the beginning of the period of illumination in Europe (when europeans began to make a lot of scientific studies, to understand the truth of ancient Europe, without being influenced by nationalism)... to today.
For example only from german scientists, who make the same conclusions about albanians, from the albanolgy (using the method of comparison of languages, ethymology...); latter and from anthropolgy (physic, today and genetic too); archeology; symbolism; and all other elements of a culture at all... are:
G. V. Jajbnic;
J. G. Herder;
J. Thunman;
F. Bop;
J. R. von Xylander;
J. G. von Hahn;
J. F. Fallmerayer;
T. Momsen;
P. Kretchmer;
H. Fromer;
P. R. Franke...

But I think you are an italian. Ok except that book about Molossians, try this one: “Rivista di studi politici internazionali, Volume 60”
Giacinto Bosco, Florence. Facoltà di scienze politiche "Cesare Alfieri.", Università di Firenze. Studio fiorentino di politica estera
Sansoni, 1993 >
"La storia non manipolata prova infatti che il territorio chiamato in serbo Kosovo, e con tale nome ormai accettato internazionalmente, fin dalle epoche più remote, molto prima anche della discesa delle tribù elleniche, era abitato dagli Illiri (ilir = libero), i cui eredi diretti sono noti oggi come Albanesi."
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...6_524923_n.jpg

Just tell me if you want other books from italian scientists who have written about these people (from ancient times, to today). Or from other french, english, american, even slavic & greek scientist

+ something to remind:
Victoria magazine, Volume 9
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4973691_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...9_545192_n.jpg
A companion to Latin studies
Sir John Edwin Sandys
Cambridge University Press, 1913 (second edit.)
(By the way, he is talking about these Thraco-Illyrian... and now Albanian tatoos http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page5)

The Trojans also spoke a kind of Illyrian dialect, and through them several Illyrian words came into Greek.
pp.116
[...]
According to Kretschmer the recessive accent of Hellenes is due to Panellenes (also in the second book of the Iliad); it was originally *Hellanes. Now –anes is certainly a non-Greek, Illyrian suffix, as can be seen clearly from the names of the Agrianes, Athamanes, Akarnanes, Atintanes, Arktanes, Enchelanes (or better, Engelanes)...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._2266786_n.jpg

Albanian > Greek
Albanian (Etruscan) > Latin
Europe, Stanford's compendium of geogr. and travel
Frederick William Rudler, George Goudie Chisholm
Andrew Crombie Ramsay (sir)

London, Edward Standford, 55, Charing Cross, S.W
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...92396591_n.jpg
(+ ...before it had split https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...7_586144_n.jpg... that means Albanian = Pelasgian
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3&l=121558727c)

+
Epeirotes and Macedonian languages ​​belong to the Illyrian family, Pelasgian, today Albanian, the language of Skipetarian (or Arvanite/Arnaut/Arbresh/Arber/n)
The Genesis of the earth and of man *: or, The history of creation, and the antiquity and races of mankind considered on Biblical and other grounds Edward William Lane
Reginald Stuart Poole
Edition 2
Williams and Norgate
...

or:
These people are generally and in all probability accurately identified as the result of the combination of the ancient Illyrians, Macedonians, and Epirotes, who were all the descendants of the more ancient Pelasgians.
The American review of reviews, Volume 47 - Albert Shaw - Review of Reviews, 1913

Recent French research on the Etruscans suggests that the Albanians could well be the descendants of the Pelasgians, a related race inhabiting the Balkans many centuries before the arrival of the Greeks.
p.304
The Geographical magazine, Volume 36
Michael Huxley
Geographical Press, 1963

+
We are able to trace with tolerable certainty the long series of historical transformations by which the ancient Epirotes, Illyrians, and Macedonians, were reborn during the Middle Ages into the modern Albanian race.
[...]
Now it was, however, that the Illyrians and men of Epirus constituted a breakwater against the floods. For a long time they maintained a defensive attitude against the Teutonic and Slavonic races on the north and west. At length the Mohammedans came in from the East, and the people whom we may now call Albanians had to face about and defend themselves against Islam. The Turks made little headway against this resolute enemy. A popular leader appeared in the celebrated George Castriota, whom the Turks called Scanderbeg. Time and again Mohammed II, after his conquest of Constantinople, set his armies against the Albanians, only to suffer defeat at their hands.
[...]
This is to say that the modern Greeks and the Albanians are at the end of the twigs of the first branch of the Aryan tree which we have been considering.
[...]
Thus we have presented for our consideration the modern Greek and Albanian races as the repre sentatives of the first division of the old Aryan family of mankind.
Ridpath's history of the world - Ridpath, John Clark, Volume: 2 - New York, Merrill & Baker

Except Albanians, none of peoples of the Balkans was not native, they were all conquering...
Europe and the Turk: a pattern of alliances, 1350-1700 (Edition reprint)
Dorothy Margaret Vaughan
AMS Press, 1976
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._1683867_n.jpg

Albanians are the oldest race in Europe - older than Latin and Greek populations
The Biblical world, Volume 41

William Rainey Harper, Ernest De Witt Burton, Shailer Mathews
Composed and Printed By The University of Chicago Press Chicago, Illinois. U.S.A.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._5296689_n.jpg

Albanian language is the most ancient tongue in Europe and is the mother of latin and greek...
Thus pressed back, the Illyrian, Epirote and Macedonian clans consolidated themselfs in what modern geography knows as Albania...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6004692_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...8_934157_n.jpg
National Geographic: vol 59

UP to the present time the Albanians have been looked upon in Europe as the ferocious auxiliaries of the Turks and to them have been imputed the crimes which desolate the orient, but the fact is that matters are very different.
If there is a truly autochthonous race in the world it is certainly the Albanian race, as it is formed of the descendants of the Pelasgians and has kept for centuries the unique qualities of energy and intelligence which characterized its ancestors.
In the whole of Macedonia the Albanian language is spoken and the villages of Janina and Scutari are alone peopled by Albanians.
p.587
Public opinion, Volume 34
The Public Opinion Co.,
Princeton University

The Encyclopaedia Britannica
http://oi53.tinypic.com/jhcvf5.jpg

Alber Pike
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3956048_n.jpg

Also, Skipetar blood must be found far south of the present Skipetar area, even as Bask (Iberic) blood is to be found in the non-Iberic parts of Spain and Portugal and France.
Page 351
The Encyclopaedia Britannica, or Dictionary of Arts, Sciences, and General Literature: Ent - Fra, Volume 9, Edition 8
Adam and Charles Black, Edinburgh, MDCCCLV
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4276547_n.jpg

Tumalare ancient tombs in Greece as those of Theroic roy heroic; their denomination comes from Albanian language...
The Journal of Hellenic studies
Autori: Society for the Promotion of Hellenic Studies (London, England)
Volume: 2,

London : Published by the Council of the Society
KRAUS REPRINT
Nendeln/Liechtenstein 1971 Germany
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6989610_n.jpg
...

Albania is the only country in the Balkan region where the feeling of nationality appears to be independent of religion
The East end of Europe: The report of an unofficial mission to the European provinces of Turkey on the eve of the revolution
Allen Upward, J. Murray

Albanians remain today unchanged representatives of prehistoric Pelasgians
America and the great war for humanity and freedom
Johnson, Willis Fletcher
Philadelphia, The John C. Winston company

Almost the entire population of Eleusis is Albanian and speak Albanian - a language quite different from the Greek language, and which is claimed by many, to be a descendant of the ancient Pelasgian language. It is still the language of the nation in Albania (Epirus), the country in which the Pelasgian Zeus was worshiped.
"Greece and the Greeks" -tr.[from Lifvet i gamla verden] by M. Howitt-Fredrika Bremer
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._7498786_n.jpg


The true history of mankind will be written only when Albanians participate in its writing
Maximilian Lambertz
Albanien erzählt: ein Einblick in die albanische Literatur. Übersetzt und herausgegeben. Literatur der Volksdemokratien, 7
(Berlin: Volk und Welt)
191 pp.
...and so many other scientific conclusions, which come as a result of the methods mentioned above.


@Yetos (former iapetoc)
First, try to read all my post, to understand why you saw the name Kosovo there (there are and materials about new greeks too). Not only to reply about a single word. By the way, you have serious problem whith the perception of history at all. You want only to reach the attention here, by denying everything. You use the fact that the truth is not absolute, and you abuse whith this relativity of the truth, by denying everything, even the name or existence of a nation at all.


__________________________________
More precisely about ancient Macedonia
(Attention: These are not empty words, influenced by nationalism, but are international studies that have not had reason to become an instrument of nationalism for this small, poor and suffered nation, called "sons of the eagle")

... and what about ancient Macedonia ?

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=1f8bcdeead

- Albanians are not like slavo-macedonians to offend the other ethnic groups just for chauvinistic pourpouses. We have nothing against the greeks, they are our neigbours and if we want to be respected we must show some dignity not to fall in the same level of slavo-macedonians. The real enemies stand behind what is called "greek nation". These people mostly living in mount Athos and in some government buildings are the real people who need a DNA test. I bet the result would be: blood from another solar-system.

you are still confused....your here link goes to some sites saying the albanians of skantanberg where epirotes
your Italian link saying nothing, it says in the area once lived illyrians and the people now in kosovo are SIMILAR to albanians.

you have major nationalistic issues which is making you post so many things which contradict each other.

Let me say ..If you believe the albanians where original people in the albanian area, then ALL I have found is that albanians in the ancient times where either Epirotes or Molossians ( maybe a bit of both) ........the original homeland was in the Pindus mountains.

The name Albanoi was first mentioned by Roman historians in 100AD ( BCE) , so completly non-illyrian as the area mentioned was non-illyrian area...........secondly , illyrians never reached the Pindus mountains.

Between the Illyrians and Helles /greeks where the Epirotes, molossians, dorians, macedonians, dardanians ............where does the albanians fit in?

Trojans as far as I know spoke Luwian.

Is Pelagasian a people or a linguistic dialect/language spoken by many different races?

so, if you can make it clear who you beleive the albanians are we can check

[Besir Bajrami]

you are still confused....your here link goes to some sites saying the albanians of skantanberg where epirotes

Yes, and so what is wrong whith that ?!

your Italian link saying nothing, it says in the area once lived illyrians and the people now in kosovo are SIMILAR to albanians.

Please stop deviating the words !
The link there is saying:
Italian:
"La storia non manipolata prova infatti che il territorio chiamato in serbo Kosovo, e con tale nome ormai accettato internazionalmente, fin dalle epoche più remote, molto prima anche della discesa delle tribù elleniche, era abitato dagli Illiri (ilir = libero), i cui eredi diretti sono noti oggi come Albanesi."

English:
"History without manipulating proves that actually the territory named in Serbian Kosovo, the name which is already recognized internationally since the early days, long before the arrival of Hellenic tribes, was inhabited by the Illyrians (Illyrian = libero), direct descendants of which are known today as Albanians."
“Rivista di studi politici internazionali, Volume 60”
Giacinto Bosco, Florence. Facoltà di scienze politiche "Cesare Alfieri.", Università di Firenze. Studio fiorentino di politica estera
Sansoni, 1993 >
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...6_524923_n.jpg

And you have should considered that i can overspread you whith thousands of other books, if you try to degrade the importance of any of the aforementioned

you have major nationalistic issues which is making you post so many things which contradict each other.

How can be nationalistic about albanians, all these thousands of international studies, from antiquity until today?!
I doubt here who is pseudo nationalist, international fre scientists, or you !

Let me say ..If you believe the albanians where original people in the albanian area, then ALL I have found is that albanians in the ancient times where either Epirotes or Molossians ( maybe a bit of both) ........the original homeland was in the Pindus mountains.

You still dont understand the difference of a tribe and a nation or the culture at all.
Mollossians were Epirot or Illyrian TRIBE of the same culture whith other Illyrian or Epirot tribes. In fact, you have to understand that Macedonians were thraco-illyrians (pelasgian)... just like all hundreds of other tribes in these areas, before the arrival of hellenic tribes.
How many times I have to say that you should read about Illyrians, Epirotes and Macedonians(from the same 'barbarian' culture-pelasgian) here:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page9

1

The name Albanoi was first mentioned by Roman historians in 100AD ( BCE),

2

so completly non-illyrian as the area mentioned was non-illyrian area...........

Hahaha... I'm wondering where to find any connection between these two sentences ?!
+ http://www.illyrians.org/shouldweignore.html

secondly , illyrians never reached the Pindus mountains.

Learn more about Illyrian tribes and territory in all periods, not to post me any map after X invasions

Between the Illyrians and Helles /greeks where the Epirotes, molossians, dorians, macedonians, dardanians ............where does the albanians fit in?

1.Dorians-------the real Greeks (Helenes)- (1100 BC migrate to Greece main land). Their original Home Phthia
Very, very, very small tribe of Pelasgians 1100 BC. Very specific dialect of Pelasgians
(“Now all those who dwelt about Pelasgian Argos, those who lived by Alos and Alope and at Trakhis, thos who held Phthia and Hellas the land of fair women, who were called Myrmidones and Hellenes and Akhaians, of all these and their fifty ships the lord was Akhilleus.” - Homer, The Iliad 2.681
Phthia and Hellas the land of fair women(english)----Phithia and Hellas toke grash te drejta (albanian)

2.Ionians--------Pelasgians( become "greeks" in classical time 450 BC after Peloponesian War and were "assimilated" by doric dialect of pelasgians 750-450 BC.

3.Aeolians----------same story as Ionians

4.The islanders-----same story as Ionians and aeolians

5.Achaeans of Peloponesus---------same with Ioninians (under Argos kingdom 1200 BC)

6.Achaeans of Thesaly-------same as Dorians

Pelasgians (the Albanians today)------Pelasgians (people that were never assimilated by the Doric dialect)

Trojans as far as I know spoke Luwian.

Dardanians were founders of Troy. Dardanians were thraco-illyrian (pelasgian) powerfull tribe. Troy (or Illius), were Illyrian (Pelasgian). - Read the piece of book above about this question too ;)
But Luwian are not aliens :)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3291884_n.jpg
The Trojans and Dardanians were probably of the same stock, a mixture of aboriginal Anatolians and Luwians (such as could be found in nearby Arzawa), with later influxes of Hittites and Mycenaens
Ancient greeks referred to Luwians as pelasgians too even that Luwian is known as indo-europian language

Luwians are related to "LUD" and became "LYDIA" (Ant.1:6:4) in W. ASIA MINOR just as Isaiah 66:19 indicates as a location. His portion was "the land of Arara (Ararat)," and "the mountains of Asur (Assur)" (Jub.9:6). Herodotus 1:7 mentions "LYDUS" as the first king of Lydia (see 7:74). Egyptian monuments portray this nation of "LUDEN" as Semitic and not far from the fertile crescent. King Atys "divided the population into two groups and determined by drawing lots which should emigrate and which should remain at home ... his son Tyrrhenus to command the emigrants... They ... finally reached UMBRIA in the north of Italy, where they settled ... Here they changed their name from Lydians to TYRRHENIANS" (Her.1:94). They were also known as TUSCI or ETRUSCI from ETRURIA (Lempriere, pp.646,231). "The ETRURIANS (were) ... descended from a LYDIAN colony" (Lempriere, p.348; Tacitus Ann.4:55) and founded ETRURIA in N.W. ITALY (ibid., p.231) with Mount ALBAN to their south and the city of "ALBA" in Piedmont to the north and the Isle of ELBA to their west. "Dionysius of Halicarnassus quotes a tradition that the name (ALBANIA) arose from the alleged fact that the people were the descendants of emigrants from ALBA in Italy" (Encyc. Brit. 11th, 1:481). The ETRUSCAN language is closely related to ALBANIAN (Coon, Living Races of Man, p.57). The Caucasus region was also anciently called ALBANIA (Strabo map 12) and had an ELBRUZ Mt. (23:874, II C2) similar to the ELBURZ Mts. of Persia (21:188, B1). Today its called GEORGIA where we find "TSKHINVALI" and "TSKARO." The European ALBANIA has the "Ghegs" and "TOSKS" and the capital is called "TIRANA." Both ALBANIAS apparently have a GIRGASHITE presence. Some "TOSKS" are called "Chams" (Ham's) (Encyc. Brit., 11th, 1:484). The Persians knew the Asiatic province as "Gurjistan" (Encyc. Brit. 11th, 11:758). Even the original LYDIA dwelt next to "the land of Karkisha" in Asia Minor. A river in Macedonia was called "LYDIAS" (Lempriere, p.343) and another river in Germany was called "ALBIS" (Strabo map 6) later called "ELBE." A tribe of Albanians is known as the SHOSHI (1:485a) possibly Elamites from Susa Persia. As in other etymologies, the Hamitic LUD may have gotten his name from the Semitic LUD and therefore N. W. Africa is another colony.
http://www.british-israel.us/1503.html
More info from this level: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=16a1ad75fe
More info about Etruscians (Tyrrheni, Tusci, Toskany...):
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...9&l=0deac217ab
+ http://www.etruscan-translation.com/
+ Etruscan - Albanian - English - Vocabulary
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
....
+ https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...0&l=1c4c6738d3
...and from here onward: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...8&l=a7334f738f...

+ Here you can read some inscription from these people, what can be read today so easly through Albanian language. Also see how other tribes (Illyrian-Thracian, or Pelasgian tribes) moved arund the Meditterean, specifically from Asia Minor to Balkans, drawn from the invasions of greeks, indo-europians or whoever. + *Lydia, Lybia, Luwia, Likia, Lycaonia (Lukka or Luqqa... in albanian Luq/lloq/ç... means something wet, backwater...) - in Asia Minor... Lyncests in Illyria, or near the lake of Ohrid (was called Lychni) between Albania and Macedonia... the Lake, in albanian is Liqen.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page7

And Dardanians are related whith Dodanim (from Japhet):
- In Albania is the RODONI Cape (27:426, A2) and the town of DODONA in Epirus.
http://www.british-israel.us/1502.html
- The Dodonians were known to be an ancient people (cf. Iliad 2:748; Herodotus 2:52-57). The Targum renders it as Dardania, a city on the Dardanelles, after which the strait was named (cf. Herodotus 1:189, 7:43; Iliad 2:819).
http://bible.ort.org/books/Torahd5.a...splayid&id=237
- Dodanim has Rodanim as an alternative reading, and if so it will indicate the inhabitants of Rhodes.[4]
The peoples of Rhodes were known as Rhodians or Dardani.
- In the Bible Dardanim obviously refers to the residents of Asia Minor in the area of Troy which traces its origin to a certain Dardanus.? Later we find the city of Dardanus there and the surrounding area became known as Dardany.
- Ancient historian, Ammianus Marcellinus refers to the Dardani as occupying Illyricum
- A branch of Dodanim dwell to this day in northern Italy. They are concentrated in the north and northwest. In this regard, Pliny refers to the tribe of Dardi living in Apulia in Italy.[26] In the north-east they dwell near the Bavarians and Illyrians (related to the Albanians). They are of the Alpine sub-racial stock, comprising 25% of the population of Italy
- According to tradition, during Niall’s reign, he traveled across the water to Alba where he engaged the Picts in battle, taking certain of the Pict royal family hostage - one from each of the kingdoms he conqureed - hence the nickname "Niall of the Nine Hostages"
...his brothers went to Alba Scotland
Kenneth Mac Alpin was born at Iona, and died in 860. He was a King of Albany, and united the kingdoms of the Picts and Scots.
CONSTANTINE I * was a King of Albany.
DOMNALL II * was a King of Albany.
CONSTANTINE II * was a King of Alba.
MALCOLM I * was a King of Albany.
DUBH * was a King of Albany
KENNETH II * was a King of Albany.
KENNETH III * was a King of Albany, Chief of Clan Duff.
MALCOLM II * was a King of Albany. He was King of Scotland from 1003 to 1033.
DUNCAN I * was a King of Albany. Duncan married Sybil
LULACH (THE SIMPLE) * was a rival King of Albany, Chief of Clan Duff.
MALCOLM III (CAENN-MOR) * was a King of Albany.
ALEXANDER I * was a King of Albany.
DAVID I * was a King of Scots. He united Lothian, Albany and Cumbria in 1124.
__________________________________________________ ______
CAMBO BLASCON18 * (BLASCON17, ALTHEO16, THUSCO15, HERCULES14, DODANIM13, JAVAN12, JAPHETH11, NOAH10, LAMECH9, METHUSELAH8, ENOCH7, JARED6, MAHABEEL5, KENAN4, ENOSH3, SHETH2, ADAM1)
Child of CAMBO BLASCON * is:
1. DARDANO19 *.
http://www.cgca.net/coglinks/origin/...d_Japanese.htm
- ISACON17 * (ELINUS16, DOHE15, BODB14, IBATH13, GOMER12, JAPHETH11, NOAH10, LAMECH9, METHUSELAH8, ENOCH7, JARED6, MAHABEEL5, KENAN4, ENOSH3, SHETH2, ADAM1)
Children of ISACON * are:
A. ROMANUS18 *.
B. FRANCUS *.
C. BRITUS *.
D. ALBANUS *. According to the Leabhar Gabhala Earrainn, Albanus was the individual "who first took Albania, with his children, and of him is Alba named; so he drove his brother across the Sea of Icht, and from him are the Albanians of Latium of Italy."
http://www.motherbedford.com/AdamGen01.htm
The Septuagint translation states Ionan for Yavan, as well as Rodanim for Dodanim - For more details and explanation read Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book I, Chapter 6
______________
Albania - Britania:
- The name Briton originated from Brutus (a descendant of Elishah), the first king on Britain's mainland, arriving about 1100 B.C. Two sons of Brutus, Kamber and Albanactus, are referenced in English prehistory. From Kamber came Cambaria and the Cambrians (who integrated with the Gomerites [mostly Celts] and became the present-day Welsh). The descendants of Albanactus were known as the Albans (or the Albanach whom the Irish commonly called them). Geographers would later call the land Albion. The Britons (also Brythons), Cambrians and Albans populated the British Isles, which later endured multiple invasions, beginning with successive waves of Celts about 700 B.C. The Celts (or Gaels) called the land Prydain, their name for Briton. Those Celts (descendants of Gomer) integrated with the descendants of Elishah and Tarshish (sons of Javan), creating what some scholars called "a Celticized aboriginal population" in the British Isles. Some of the invading people groups were Scythians, descended from Magog, who became known as the Skoths or Scots. The name for the Celts or Cymru was "Weahlas," from Anglo-Saxon origins, meaning "land of foreigners"—Wales. The Welsh still call themselves Cymru, pronounced "Coomry." Later the Romans referred to the land as Britannia, invading there about 50 years before the birth of Christ. By the third century A.D., Jutes, Franks, Picts, Moors, Angles, Saxons and other groups were invading from surrounding Europe. In the sixth century A.D., Saxons called the land Kemr (Cymru), and the language Brithenig (Breton). The Angles eventually conquered Britannia, renaming the territory Angleland, which became England. Vikings invaded in the 9th century, and the Normans (or Northmen—former Danish Vikings) conquered England in 1066. Today, the British isles are settled by the ancestors of those people groups, which included Gomer and Javan (first inhabitants), plus Magog (later invasions by various people groups). http://www.michel-desfayes.org/namesofcountries.html
http://www.soundchristian.com/man/
+ https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3356751&type=1
+ https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3356751&type=1
... the ancient city of Unuk (in the Bible is the first city ever built, equated with Enoch), later appears as Uruk and Erech, then as Wark or Warka by the Sumerians.
* From Babel the three families of man would populate the earth, and here we have the beginnings of all people groups through Shem, Ham and Japheth
http://www.soundchristian.com/man/
See Peleg, the king of Babel... in his time the nations started to divide...

Is Pelagasian a people or a linguistic dialect/language spoken by many different races?
so, if you can make it clear who you beleive the albanians are we can check

Pelasgian were the original most ancient dwellers of all around the Medditerean... and they started to distributed in other cultures (nations) and to interanct whith them, and melt away whith them... in one word, they started to be more heterogeneous... in this way, from pelasgian language, culture, were formed other later cultures, languages and nations and that part of pelasgians who decided to retreat in the mountains around (see careful in Balkan mountains, until in these late years, the only original inhabitants were albanians), called them self Alba (Arba), and they had the opportunity to preserve their original identity until today (no matter the effects from neighbors in language, but nevertheless, the original words of common language, remain alive until today, among others, and the method of comparing the language and etymology, proves this).

Herodotus Book 8 Urania...the Pelasgians used to speak a Barbarian language

The New York Times (1998)
...Strabo (7.7.1) and Pausanias (1.41.8) both offer the opinion that Hellas was once entirely or almost entirely inhabited by barbarians...
The Greeks and Greek Civilization
https://myaccount.nytimes.com/auth/l...=Q5fQ72Q3dQ32+ http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-...ery=Str.+7.7.2

@ all: And now, stop deviating every topic whith your lack of information, because I don't want to believe that the barrier here to speak scientifically whithout emotions, hate... is pseudo-nationalism!
______________________________
So, let's proceed whith the topic again: ...what about ancient Macedonia ?
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.196367803744330.45871.100001133356751&type= 1&l=1f8bcdeead

[Taranis]

I have move this - again - into a separate thread.

[razor]

I have move this - again - into a separate thread.

Yeah, it's either that or pistols at dawn...

[zanipolo]

Yes, and so what is wrong whith that ?!

nothing wrong just make up your mind are you epirote now? or are you saying epirotes are illyrians?

Please stop deviating the words !
The link there is saying:
Italian:
"La storia non manipolata prova infatti che il territorio chiamato in serbo Kosovo, e con tale nome ormai accettato internazionalmente, fin dalle epoche più remote, molto prima anche della discesa delle tribù elleniche, era abitato dagli Illiri (ilir = libero), i cui eredi diretti sono noti oggi come Albanesi."

English:
"History without manipulating proves that actually the territory named in Serbian Kosovo, the name which is already recognized internationally since the early days, long before the arrival of Hellenic tribes, was inhabited by the Illyrians (Illyrian = libero), direct descendants of which are known today as Albanians."
“Rivista di studi politici internazionali, Volume 60”
Giacinto Bosco, Florence. Facoltà di scienze politiche "Cesare Alfieri.", Università di Firenze. Studio fiorentino di politica estera
Sansoni, 1993 >
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...6_524923_n.jpg

stop using stupid online translators, the sentence means what i said
oggi = today
come = like/similar

How can be nationalistic about albanians, all these thousands of international studies, from antiquity until today?!
I doubt here who is pseudo nationalist, international fre scientists, or you !

i dislike nationality, its all lies and propaganda.

You still dont understand the difference of a tribe and a nation or the culture at all.
Mollossians were Epirot or Illyrian TRIBE of the same culture whith other Illyrian or Epirot tribes. In fact, you have to understand that Macedonians were thraco-illyrians (pelasgian)... just like all hundreds of other tribes in these areas, before the arrival of hellenic tribes.
How many times I have to say that you should read about Illyrians, Epirotes and Macedonians(from the same 'barbarian' culture-pelasgian) here:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page9

i know the difference between a tribe and a nation. a tribe began with the creation of man and is still in use today.
A nation began in the 18th century and evolved from feudal states and other different dictatoral systems.
BTW, modern nations are more feudal than nationalistic these days anyway

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...0tribe&f=false

no illyrians near pindus mountains and no albanoi tribe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...d_environs.png

no albanoi tribe prior to roman conquest
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Illyrians.jpg

no albanoi in this 6 AD map, because they where only mentioned from 150AD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Il...onofTribes.png

Lastly , I read that albanians derived from norman settlements in Durres aroubd 1000AD, ......so there are many stories.

Another problem for you is that albanians are in majority HG E and very little of this is found north of montenegro in central and northern illyrian lands. The only other major E in the area are greeks

[Besir Bajrami]

nothing wrong just make up your mind are you epirote now? or are you saying epirotes are illyrians?

Your ignorance is infinite! How many times I have to say that you should read about Illyrians, Epirotes and Macedonians(from the same 'barbarian' culture-pelasgian) here, not to ask me what albanians WANT to be!
You dont read and this is your problem !
Let's try other info one by one:

+
Epeirotes and Macedonian languages ​​belong to the Illyrian family, Pelasgian, today Albanian, the language of Skipetarian (or Arvanite/Arnaut/Arbresh/Arber/n)
The Genesis of the earth and of man *: or, The history of creation, and the antiquity and races of mankind considered on Biblical and other grounds Edward William Lane
Reginald Stuart Poole
Edition 2
Williams and Norgate
...

or:
These people are generally and in all probability accurately identified as the result of the combination of the ancient Illyrians, Macedonians, and Epirotes, who were all the descendants of the more ancient Pelasgians.
The American review of reviews, Volume 47 - Albert Shaw - Review of Reviews, 1913

+
We are able to trace with tolerable certainty the long series of historical transformations by which the ancient Epirotes, Illyrians, and Macedonians, were reborn during the Middle Ages into the modern Albanian race.
[...]
Now it was, however, that the Illyrians and men of Epirus constituted a breakwater against the floods. For a long time they maintained a defensive attitude against the Teutonic and Slavonic races on the north and west. At length the Mohammedans came in from the East, and the people whom we may now call Albanians had to face about and defend themselves against Islam. The Turks made little headway against this resolute enemy. A popular leader appeared in the celebrated George Castriota, whom the Turks called Scanderbeg. Time and again Mohammed II, after his conquest of Constantinople, set his armies against the Albanians, only to suffer defeat at their hands.
[...]
This is to say that the modern Greeks and the Albanians are at the end of the twigs of the first branch of the Aryan tree which we have been considering.
[...]
Thus we have presented for our consideration the modern Greek and Albanian races as the repre sentatives of the first division of the old Aryan family of mankind.
Ridpath's history of the world - Ridpath, John Clark, Volume: 2 - New York, Merrill & Baker

Albanian language is the most ancient tongue in Europe and is the mother of latin and greek...
Thus pressed back, the Illyrian, Epirote and Macedonian clans consolidated themselfs in what modern geography knows as Albania...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6004692_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...8_934157_n.jpg
National Geographic: vol 59

+
Epirus, during the true historic period, was not Greek, but Illyrian; Pelasgian period, pre-Hellenic, the golden age...
A manual of ancient history, from the earliest times to the fall of the Sassanian Empire, comprising the history of Chaldaea, Assyria, Media, Babylonia, Lydia, Phoenicia, Syria, Fudaea, Egypt, Carthage, Persia, Greece, Macedonia, Rome and Parthia
Rawlinson, George
Oxford Clarendon Press

i dislike nationality, its all lies and propaganda.

All lies and propaganda comes from these false religious states like new greek and south slavic states (especially Serbia)

But I'm following these
http://www.greektexts.com/
...and free international European and American institutes and institutions after the period of ilumination, when they started to studie the ancient Europe, whithout pseudo-nationlism

i know the difference between a tribe and a nation. a tribe began with the creation of man and is still in use today.
A nation began in the 18th century and evolved from feudal states and other different dictatoral systems.
BTW, modern nations are more feudal than nationalistic these days anyway

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...0tribe&f=false

no illyrians near pindus mountains and no albanoi tribe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...d_environs.png

no albanoi tribe prior to roman conquest
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Illyrians.jpg

no albanoi in this 6 AD map, because they where only mentioned from 150AD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Il...onofTribes.png

Lastly , I read that albanians derived from norman settlements in Durres aroubd 1000AD, ......so there are many stories.

I told you to stop postin here maps after the X invasion was started.
Learn how ancient greek writters wrote about the borders of Illyria!
+
You forgot the toponym Arbon (Greek: Ἄρβων or Ἀρβών) [3] or Arbo[4] (Greek: Άρβωνα)[5] is mentioned by Polybius in the History of the World (II century BC). It was perhaps an island[6] in Liburnia or another location within Illyria. Stephanus of Byzantium centuries later, cites Polybius, saying it was a city in Illyria and gives an ethnic name for its inhabitants.

That's why E. Bidera wrote: when some albanians, or Arbresh escape into Italy after the death of Skanderbeg:
Arbëreshët, Albanians or the first Pelasgians came as before 4000 years, the Greeks did not understand Pelasgian language Albanian myths...
Quaranta secoli racconti su le Due Sicilie del Pelasgo Matn-Eer, Volume 4 Emmanuele Bidera
A. Manuzio [poi] Tip. de' Gemelli




+ Albanoi." Encyclopædia Britannica (not Wikipedia):
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/12564/Albanoi
+ Albania: From Illyria to Albania
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...chor=ref476168
+ The Encyclopaedia Britannica
http://oi53.tinypic.com/jhcvf5.jpg
+
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4276547_n.jpg
...

And what about Albania toponym all around the Europe and Asia ?



+ Maliq culture in Albania, more specifically Maliq III was around 2100 BC http://books.google.com/books?id=IJ2...ulture&f=false ...
This is the period when the Bronze age starts and elite single graves, horses and the whole Indo-European package was introduced. This is late for south-east Europe. The Bronze Age reached Scotland almost exactly at the same period. Both could be offshoots from the Unetice culture from Central Europe. Perhaps this common source of IE people called themselves "Alba(n)" ?
Also, folk elements, for example the bagpipe could therefore be a genuine Indo-European musical instrument, as it is found in regions thousands of kilometres apart from each that only have R1b1b in common (e.g. Albania, Scotland/Ireland, France, Iberia, northern Italy, Germany, Crete, north-east Turkey and Armenia). The most famous bagpipes are also the askomandoura from Crete. Interestingly Crete also happens to be a hotspot for R1b (at least the Lasithi plateau, which has over 40% of R1b). R1a regions also have bagpipes (Poland, Ukraine, Iran, India) but it is far rarer than in R1b regions.
Alba - the Eagle
http://www.youtube.com/user/2B1985#p/f/483/Yhg9X0LhEI4
Alba - the Day Lighting
http://www.youtube.com/user/antonKAS...56/MmFlmceV75c
Eagle of the Sky, Alba - Albania
http://www.youtube.com/user/2B1985#p/f/484/SVSRmNIK5V8

+ The problem of lack of written documents of albanian-illyrian ties (illyrians in Balkans), are not today albanians, but "guilty" are Illyrians (in the region of Balkans only), because they did not leave written documents (in region of Balkans only)... But when Messapian insciptions wer proclaimed as the Illyrian language, scientists were able to decipher it only by the Albanian language! - Also, there are a lot of Pelasgian, Etruscan, Tyrrhenian, Lycian, Thracian, Hittite... words in albanian language.
In the other hand there are not other nations who are more closest whith Illyrians, as Albanians are. Other sciences have confirmed this.

Albanians in middle ages call them self Arban/Arbën/Arbër/Arbëresh... greeks called them Arvanit (because b-v), also turks called them Arnaut... and after all these thraco-illyrian (from illyria, macedonia & epir region) tribes, retreat in the mountains around (see careful in Balkan mountains, until in these late years, the only original inhabitants were albanians), they had the opportunity to preserve their original identity until today (no matter the effects from neighbors in language, but nevertheless, the original words of common language, remain alive until today, among others, and the method of comparing the language and etymology, proves this).
And, as in the book that you've posted here to me (that has so much propaganda, it was enough to read that: "77 % of albanians in Macedonia do not to be united whith an Albanian state"!", anyway), albanians called them self Shqiptar - Sons of the eagle.
This name can represent all these original/autochthonal ancient tribes of this region retread and united from permanent invasions to save their original identity. Albania is in use only by foreigners to identify this state, which is created around this Illyrian tribe Albanoi (or Parthini - Parth/Barth in albanian means White; Also Alb in lattin means White), Albanoi can consider as a latin name about Parthini, but Alb is PIE root, not IE... we shoul consider here that this name was in use before italic tribes as Alba Longa founded by pelasgians or etruscans (specifically, by Aeneas Dardani), that passed there from southern part of Albania and from all Illyria at all. See this map:

is taken from this book "The Etruscans begin to speak", by Z. Mayani:


And about Skipetar/Shqiptar/Shqyptar/Shqipëtar... you can see hear a describtion of that name in the books: The Academy and literatur: vol.18)


Also:

And so on...

Another problem for you is that albanians are in majority HG E and very little of this is found north of montenegro in central and northern illyrian lands. The only other major E in the area are greeks

Info:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/europe...logroups.shtml
+ learn about the concept of ASSIMILATION!

P.S: Don't undertake to debate about any thread, when you are not able or well read about that question!
+ I see in you a lack of love for reading, when someone oposses you whith books from every period of history, from antiquity, until today.

[Taranis]

I will not go into detail in my reply, but I'd like to issue a few general objections:

- citing sources which try to link biblical genalogy into historical linguistics/ethnogenesis is neither a good idea nor is it scientific.

- You're citing Z. Mayani, who's claim that Albanian is related with Etruscan is has been completely and thoroughly debunked, in particular due to the fact that the Etruscan language was evidently a non-Indo-European language, whereas Albanian is obviously and firmly an Indo-European language. I outlined parts of this here and here. As you can see, the original poster of the threads too believes Mayani's hypothesis, and you will find extensive counter-argumentation on my side how and why Etruscan is not Indo-European.

[julia90]

I find the theory that albanians are descendands of people of the etruscan/pelasgian stock, fashinating.

thought modern albanian is indoeuropean, while etruscan is not.

i find also that albanians have some similar looks with italians

[julia90]

as you said in italian toponimy there are many names Albano, Albani, thought they may be connected with latin Albus, i wich means white, or with modern italia Alba that means Sunrise

ancient roman city http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba_Longa
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populi_albenses

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba_Fucens

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colli_Albani
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Albano
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albano_Laziale
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba_(Italia)
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba_(Canazei)
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba_Adriatica
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanella_(Italia)
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albano_Sant%27Alessandro
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albano_di_Lucania
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albano_Vercellese
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albano_(torrente)

[julia90]

a curious thing in favour of etruscan-pelasgian-people from albania connection is the etruscans hat, similar to the albanian hat, the shape is similar thought i don't know if the hat is also turkish. or it must be similar but not with the same origins

[Taranis]

Mind you, the root is not only found in Latin "albus". The root word is probably Proto-Indo-European and also found in other branches, including Celtic (compare 'Alba', 'Albion', 'Albiones') and Germanic (compare English 'Elf', German 'Elb').

Another issue is, the term "Albanians" is an exonym, not the self-designation of the Albanians (which is Shqiptar), and that is a huge difference. It's the same as with "Germans" and "Deutsche" or "Welsh" and "Cymry".

[julia90]

Mind you, the root is not only found in Latin "albus". The root word is probably Proto-Indo-European and also found in other branches, including Celtic (compare 'Alba', 'Albion', 'Albiones') and Germanic (compare English 'Elf', German 'Elb').

Another issue is, the term "Albanians" is an exonym, not the self-designation of the Albanians (which is Shqiptar), and that is a huge difference. It's the same as with "Germans" and "Deutsche" or "Welsh" and "Cymry".

i think you are right.

Albus, is very indoeuropean, in the case of german and celtic, what does it mean?

in latin, white
also the Alps, derive from it, meaning white (mountains)

[Yetos]

Mind you, the root is not only found in Latin "albus". The root word is probably Proto-Indo-European and also found in other branches, including Celtic (compare 'Alba', 'Albion', 'Albiones') and Germanic (compare English 'Elf', German 'Elb').

Another issue is, the term "Albanians" is an exonym, not the self-designation of the Albanians (which is Shqiptar), and that is a huge difference. It's the same as with "Germans" and "Deutsche" or "Welsh" and "Cymry".

I think the word elf is after another meaning

elf in northern many things by with south is connected with deer (ελαφ-ος)
elf might be connected with hunting tribes or cultures who wear deer horns etc mainly deep forest culture
godess artemis living and worship style,
ιερα ελαφος

while the word alba exist in Greek as alabastros albiona
probably connection of word white or change of al with la
remember the stone for stone is la
so maybe in latium is mountain Albani but if it original was mount Labani means rocky mountains as in Pelasgian minoan etc
compare the word La-riss = Stone fortification or rocky nose (acropolis)
Lapis in italian
Lapis lazuli
Labrys (the stone hammer)

personnaly both are accepted

since albion is also the white seagull
(compare albatros) etc
Besides albion (england) in Greek means land of seagulls

alba must be also connected with alabaster

[Taranis]

i think you are right.

Albus, is very indoeuropean, in the case of german and celtic, what does it mean?

in latin, white
also the Alps, derive from it, meaning white (mountains)

In the case of Celtic:
- "Albion" is an ancient name for "Britain" that was recorded by the Greeks
- "Alba" was the name of a kingdom in Scotland in the medieval ages, and is also today the Scottish Gaelic name for "Scotland"
- the "Albiones" were a tribe in modern-day Galicia.

In the case of Germanic:
- An "Elf" (plural "Elves") are mythological beings or magical creatures from Germanic mythology and folklore. To pick an example from popular culture, they are popularized in the Lord of the Rings.
- The German word for nightmare, "Albtraum" also aludes to the elves and literally means 'elven dream'.
- The river name "Elbe" probably means "white river".

[Elias2]

This part of your post, is provocative, outside the topic (and makes me to react... in this way the topic deviates),and it's continuation of the propaganda that some of the southern slavs and new greeks, not not convenient the albanian autochthony, for millions of devouring reasons. The administrators should take action when we found these kind of deviations, thus promote long explanations (from another member), to make the "question" clear, and what is not related directly whith the topic

I'll say it again, because you are mad about the truth, Albanians do not decend from Illyrians. Albanains began to appear in the middle ages, alot of migrations happened in the middle ages. Albanians coverted to islam under the ottomans, this is why they were able to grow in the 500 years, the product is modern day albania.

Look, read, take it in, and understand I know you are mad because Albanian history is constructed around this notion of Illyrianism, but it is false, and albanian intelectuals should speak out against this delusion.

[Besir Bajrami]

I will reply you again word by word (as always, and I wonder when you'll do the same whith my posts) for the last time that you're spaming. If you proceed to respam only this dirty serbian propaganda, whithout arguments, I don't now what else I can "talk" whith someone like you, because you don't have the culture to read what your "interlocutor" writes!

I'll say it again, because you are mad about the truth

Yes I am mad when people like you (who don't even read), in the name of the truth, repeat the same words, as the parrot, whithot trying to give any contra argument.

Albanians do not decend from Illyrians.

If you say it, I'm gonna leave it as you say ;)

Albanains began to appear in the middle ages, alot of migrations happened in the middle ages.

If you have contra arguments...
- Tell me when albanians come into Balkans (don't tell me about any internal movement, field-mountain, mountain-field... addiction to invasions of others, remember here: Except Albanians, none of peoples of the Balkans was not native, they were all conquering...
Europe and the Turk: a pattern of alliances, 1350-1700 (Edition reprint)
Dorothy Margaret Vaughan
AMS Press, 1976
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._1683867_n.jpg
Or this one: Albanian indeed the right to look on Greek, Roman, Norman, Angevin, Servian, Ventian and Ottoman, as alike intruders whithin his own immemorial land
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4863425_n.jpg
Or this:
If there is a truly autochthonous race in the world it is certainly the Albanian race, as it is formed of the descendants of the Pelasgians and has kept for centuries the unique qualities of energy and intelligence which characterized its ancestors.
In the whole of Macedonia the Albanian language is spoken and the villages of Janina and Scutari are alone peopled by Albanians.
p.587
Public opinion, Volume 34
The Public Opinion Co.,
Princeton University
Or:
Alber Pike:
...in fact, but autochtons.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3956048_n.jpg), from where ? (and why there are no any serious institution in the World, that confirm that migration)... ?
- Tell me how albanians called them self in middle ages, and what is the history of that name in this region ?
- Tell me why they now are still called Albanian, and what is the history of this name in this region ?
- Tell me why albanians, when after all thraco-illyrian (from Illyria, Macedonia & Epir region) tribes, retread in the mounains around the Illyrian tribe Albanoi, decided to call themself shqiptar (what is the meaning of this name) ?
- Tell me why albanians lived in the mountains and latter the slavs in the fields ?
- Tell me who are the native, those who live in the mountains, or those who live in the fields ?
- Tell me why they have pelasgian, illyrian, thracian, etruscan, hittite... words in their lexicon?
- Tell me why they have greek and latin atrocities in their langauge ?
- Tell me how can they borrow so much Latin and a few Greek words, if they whould not live near them (greeks) or under them (latins), when they (latins) invaded Illyrian peninsula ?
- Tell me why some albanian roots and other small semantic units are in the greek and latin language ?
- Tell me from where are derived these albanian pure words (which are not greek, not latin, not slavic... but a particular language in their own) ?
- Tell me why all international serious scientists (linguists), whith the method of comparison of the language, and etymology ... have reached the conclusion that Albanian is one of the oldest languages ​​of the continent (are they all nationalist) ?
- Tell me why albanians language has so much sub-dialects (Dr. Robert Elsie was registred 137 of them, but there are much more); Does that mean that these people have lived in a wider region (about ancient greeks, or the elite of the region, they were barbarians= Pelasgians, or Thraco-Illyrian tribes... Epirotes, Macedonians...), but of the same culture (the same language) ?
Answer me about all these question, if you don't want to spam again...
...
Also, against your serbian propaganda, I've posted you so much material here:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page5
... to make up your mind, but as always, you don't read or care at all !

Also about "migration" i've posted you so much materials there, and above also... but as always, you don't evend read!
Let's try one by one again.... from a book, not from my mind:
(Let's give sentence by sentence, as a child, because you don't read:)
Step 1:
...We are able to trace with tolerable certainty the long series of historical transformations by which the ancient Epirotes, Illyrians, and Macedonians, were reborn during the Middle Ages into the modern Albanian race...
Ridpath's history of the world - Ridpath, John Clark, Volume: 2 - New York, Merrill & Baker
Step 2 in the second comment, this time i will not post you another book ;)

Albanians coverted to islam under the ottomans

Some albanian were able better to survive when they change their religion in Islam, because then the differences beetwen south slavic invaders and new greeks, became double (national & religious). Other orthodox albanians become the greaters greeks and slavs... you can see it today from their DNA ;)
Also I posted you the first constitution of the new Greek state in 1821
This is the approach that today Greece and "new greek nation" is formed. Here's the constitution of 1821 in Greece
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1227707_n.jpg

Here is translated in english:
http://i55.tinypic.com/29qjyuu.jpg

...is clearly seen in what basis the Greek state was formed, thus clearly stating that the Greeks had no need to talk Greek, or to have Greek blood, enough was the religion (ie Orthodox) and this policy made possible the absorption (or assimilation) of many other ethnicities.

this is why they were able to grow in the 500 years, the product is modern day albania.

You have a great fantasy, but why you post in a thread about the albanians, when you don't now nothing at all about these people.
Albanians have a SURVIVAL history, and a CONTINUAL RESTRICION of the territory and population (what is still going on...!).

Look, read, take it in, and understand I know you are mad because Albanian history is constructed around this notion of Illyrianism, but it is false

While I'm reading people like you, is being made ​​completely clear :)
Illyrian origin about albanians is composed from international scientists, not by Albanians. No serious study is not done by the Albanians, because they did not have a free state, institutions ... only in the case of the Albanians we can say that nationalism has no place!

and albanian intelectuals should speak out against this delusion.http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26965-Albanians-(OFFTOPIC-Macedonians)

Albanian intelectuals have another job to do... how to make money, because we still are poorest people of Europe ;)
If there would not have been (And I bow in gratitude before them) German, French, English, Italian, American and any Slavic or Greek free scientists, albanians will proceed to be the most unknown nation to them. The period of iluminasion in Europe, was when europian scientists started to be interested about the language and history of albanians and ancient Europe at all, whithout pseudo-nationalism. Because science has suffered a lot from people like you!
Like Johan Erik Tunman said in his ”Untersuchungen uber die Geschichte oestlichen europaeischen Voelker” (Leipzig 1774)

No other race in the living World is such unknown for the western Europians like the Albanians are. Nevertheless, they used to be the main race in the antiquity playing a dominant role in it, so any scholar who study history would be interested for. Their history would have filled the great gaps in the history of Europe old or new whatsoever. However… now, they dont play any special role anymore. Now they are subservient, they are unfortunate, and the western historians in these circumstances behave in an unfair way, the same with regular people, they dont have respect for the unfortunate ones.

[Besir Bajrami]

I will not go into detail in my reply, but I'd like to issue a few general objections:

- citing sources which try to link biblical genalogy into historical linguistics/ethnogenesis is neither a good idea nor is it scientific.

Tell me about which conclusion of the above materials, you don't agree, or is problematic for you, and I will post you the same conclusion from another book, but not from "biblical genalogy" this time and to solve this "problem" :)

- About Etruscans, I will answer you again, after we make clear the first objection

[Besir Bajrami]

a curious thing in favour of etruscan-pelasgian-people from albania connection is the etruscans hat, similar to the albanian hat, the shape is similar thought i don't know if the hat is also turkish. or it must be similar but not with the same origins

Albanian white qeleshe or plis (just like todays arvanites are named as greeks, in the same way, the old pelasgian culture in ancient times, they call it greek).





1=Odysseus (in albanian Odhisti/Udhisti... traveler)
2=Uliks
3=Odysseus
4=Hefest
5=Theti (deity of the sea and water, today in albanian Deti=the sea), runs to pull weapons of Achilles, to "divine" Hefest. All the three have the todays albanian plis/qeleshe in their head (Rome show about Iliad at Colosse-2007, the Archaeological Museum of Naples)
6=Hefest
7=Illyrian type of a plaque found in today's Croatia near Dubrovnik
8=Poseidon
9=Through the Etruscans (Pelasgians), the subsequent Roman people named "pileus libertatis" (plis of freedom), here presented in the currency printed by the Roman Brutus after Caesar's murder.
10=Antique statues in Labëri (also similar to this:http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3040852_n.jpg)
11=Ajax & Achilles playing Draughts

* Starting from the Plis/qeleshe of ZEUS (Zojsi/Dias) up to Bardulus [(white - star Dardanian/Bardhanian Bardh(white) yll(star)], all these are symbols of freedom to Albanians, you can see this link for more: http://picasaweb.google.com/11509262...96537464102946
Here we have Zeus:
"A19 SG#0671 Bruttium, Lokroi Epizephyrioi, possibly from the time of Pyrrhus. AE 20. 300-268 BC. First part of 3rd Cent BC. Conjoined busts of the Dioskouroi right wearing PILEI - Zeus enthroned holding patera nd Sceptre, cornucopiae behind, LOKRWN. SNG Cop 1895. HN Italy 2399. Sear 671. 4.9g."
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5347599_n.jpg

Here we have Pyrro whith his people with plis/qeleshe and crown from the sacred oak of Dodona




To keep cultural traditions and in proving that to whose people (culture) he belong, he is identified with the eagle and all the other symbolism (like the two horns that appear in this picture) that derive from Thot (Idris)>Deukalion (Dhulkarnejn)> Troyans> Alexander the great> and through him, to Castrioti, who besides that inherited the same culture, but he kept the figure of Pyrrhus in his sword too:
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3...enderbeyg0.jpg


Originally Posted by Besir Bajrami
Let's proceed:
Ancient artifact from Vinca culture (or Goddess on the throne) and modern (still ancient:) albanian dress from Kosovo (part of ancient Dardania)







If we pay attention to the tradition, even today in albanian culture, when the girl become e women, when she get married (albanians get married only in Thursday and Sunday), she have to stay just like this, in that position (folded), like the mysterious artifact there.
Thursday is womens day. For the bride they say: "U bë Nuse Venuse" - "You become e Bride a Venus"... alb.:"Ve"- eng.:"Egg" - alb.:"Nuse" - eng.:"bride"... Venus)
Also, when in "the first night" she have to stay whith her man, tradition requires that she have to sit in the symbol of the half of Cosmic Egg (albanian white hood - "Plis" or "Qeleshe", is only a man cap), turned back, and to put in the head the another half, just like the symbol of Zeus here:



So, like the seed that came from the Cosmic Egg or the Egg of the Worlds and brought the life, and the Bride "emerges" from the Egg and bring life in that house.

In fact the entire albanian national dress represents that pelasgic religion, or symbolizes God/Almighty Creator.
Even the sleeves of the dress (Guna) that don't have to be wear but to connect behind, symbolizing comb / wings of divinity. For old religion (or better to say, from that original religion, what was copied latter from other cultures, especially from the Semitic peoples) says that when the Creator created life from the cosmic egg/egg of worlds, he was presented with comb/wings ...
This kind of theory of creation is writen somehow and in the Bible indireclty in Genesis.
Here you can see the symbolism of Comb/divine wings in albanian dress:



See more in page 5 in this topic about some other albanian national costumes and their symbolism:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page5




So, here we have this wonderful figure from the book of Artur Cook about Zues, who have two qeleshe/plis in above and below... Plis/qeleshe symbolizes the on half of the cosmic egg, from which "egg" God created all things, created life.

Otherwise, the Illyrians have used several types of hats/plis/qeleshe (fez-hat-cap-lumpy) similar to each other.
Dardanians have used round (or half circle) qeleshe, in use today by albanians in Kosovo. Dardania latter was from Nis (Naisus) to the Bylazora (Veles), Astipi (Shtibi), Skopje (Skupi), Tetovo (Oaeneum), Gostivar (Draudakum) ...
From mountain in southern Bukovik up to the Ohrid, Gostivar, Struga, Debar and to Mavrovo, have lived Penestians whith the capital Uscana (Kicevo), and this Illyrian tribe had flat plis/qeleshe, at the time of Skanderbeg is called Dibran, because was in use of all regions of Dibra. North Albania holds also flat plis/qeleshe but is much shorter from dibra region. Southern Albania holds the round plis/qeleshe but much longer than it from Dardanians (see 10) - Laberian plis/qeleshe.
Headgear that the Albanians be using the time of the ancient Illyrian-Pelasgians. White fez, kilt, tirqit, mintani with black braids, or Albanian xhubleta (4.000 years old at least), still alive ... Well, these are the Albanian original heritage , because no nation in the world has not previously used except Albanians and yet we have remained without any break tradition.


- Zeus-Poseidon; Zues-Hades; Zeus
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...4_329405_n.jpg

- Dielli (Sun) and Merkuri (Hermes/Thot/Idris)
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6580153_n.jpg

-This one os from Illyrian tribe PHRYGASE or Bryghians, aliie whith Troyans (not to say the Troyans itself)
http://www.forumishqiptar.com/attach...1&d=1213317762

- Apollo
http://www.grisel.net/images/greece/Olympia79.JPG

-Here we have the famous apple, which fez Atlas whith qeleshe/plis in the head gives it to Hercules who hold the weight of the world with the help of Athens
http://www.grisel.net/images/greece/OlympiaHercules.JPG

- PATROCLES and ACHILES
http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/...patroclose.jpg

- Odysseus
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8...aramontoq7.jpg

- Collection Albani
http://i48.tinypic.com/5lth05.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2n8n9fn.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/spaeiq.jpg

Trojans


Trojans:
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/13/54/17/87/568-od10.jpg


This vase (where is Illyrian Kadmi whith qeleshe/plis) preserved in the Louvre Museum - Paris
Plis in lab variant, called a qeleshe, and usually has an little "antenna" on top, as Illyrian Kadmi in this very important artifact.

Kàstor (greek Κάστωρ, -ορος, lat. Castōr, -ŏris) e Pollùksi or Polideuks (greek Πολυδεύκης, -ου, lat. Pollūx, -ūcis) these two names are from Greek and Roman mythology, twin sons of Zeus and Ledia, known above all as "sons of Zeus", as well as the Kàstor




+ http://www.fotografo.to/to1/images/f...o-IMG_0270.JPG

+ Ancient Macedonians http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3040852_n.jpg



Zeus, Athena and Hephastius


...somewhere in the recesses of the Vatican!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6849517_n.jpg

S33.2 DIOSKOUROI

Museum Collection: Museo Archeologico Nazionale di Napoli, Naples, Italy
Catalogue Number: TBA
Title: "Dioscuri"
Class: Free-standing statue
Material: Marble
Height: --
Context: --
Original / Copy: --
Style: --
Date: --
Period: Imperial Roman
SUMMARY
One of a pair of statues, depicting the Dioskouroi twins, with travellers caps, chamlys capes and horse-heads by their feet
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3054070_n.jpg

Achille chez le roi Lycomede, Louvre museum
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6277591_n.jpg


Let's see somthing from books, because like I always do:
Encyclop℗edie M℗ethodique, Ou Par Ordre De Matieres: Par Une Soci ..., Volume 3
By F℗elix Vicq-d'Azur, Jean Le Rond d' Alembert, 1786
Quote: Ce bonnet étoit fait ep cône, 8c ressembloit à un casque. A la plaçe de l'aigrette de celui-ci, on attachoit à ï'apex une baguette recouverte de laine blanche , appelée proprement apex. De là vint le nom des Flamines, selon Servius, a Filaminibus. II est inutile de faire sentir le ridicule de cette étymologie. La forme de ce bonnet, qui ressembloit un peu à la cause ou casque Macédonien, le fit appeler bonnet d'Epire ou d'Albanie, pileus Epiroticus. Les Grecs le nommoient v'Ui,ut<


Il perfetto dittionario overo tesoro della lingua volgar Latina
1666
Pietro Galesini

http://i53.tinypic.com/2hwisye.png

http://i52.tinypic.com/15g35w9.png







+ http://i43.tinypic.com/1pvsy1.png
+ http://i40.tinypic.com/nlafzr.png


...


Video:
Albanian Hat - Odysseus, Patroculus, Ptolemey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1tvmnc3cVU

... and President Clinton also gave a symbolic message to the world about the albanian Plis/Qeleshe


Read more about albanian qeleshe/plis:
THE “IGNORANCE” OF THE ‘QELESHE’ http://zeus10.wordpress.com/
And this one, just in case... http://zeus10.webs.com/

[Taranis]

Tell me about which conclusion of the above materials, you don't agree, or is problematic for you, and I will post you the same conclusion from another book, but not from "biblical genalogy" this time and to solve this "problem" :)

- About Etruscans, I will answer you again, after we make clear the first objection

Frankly, I don't know where to start. The (Neolithic) Vinca Culture was around 7000 years ago. It doesn't make any sense to claim a connection or continuity between them and the Albanians (or any other modern-day ethnicity). The same applies for the Pelasgians. We don't even know if the ancient words / name elements usually identified as "Pelasgian" really have any connection with the Pelasgians. Either way, any connection between these and the modern Albanian language makes no sense what so ever since the ancestor language of Albanian at the same time stage would have looked radically different.

[Sile]

I will reply you again word by word (as always, and I wonder when you'll do the same whith my posts) for the last time that you're spaming. If you proceed to respam only this dirty serbian propaganda, whithout arguments, I don't now what else I can "talk" whith someone like you, because you don't have the culture to read what your "interlocutor" writes!


Yes I am mad when people like you (who don't even read), in the name of the truth, repeat the same words, as the parrot, whithot trying to give any contra argument.


If you say it, I'm gonna leave it as you say ;)





If you have contra arguments...
- Tell me when albanians come into Balkans (don't tell me about any internal movement, field-mountain, mountain-field... addiction to invasions of others, remember here: Except Albanians, none of peoples of the Balkans was not native, they were all conquering...
Europe and the Turk: a pattern of alliances, 1350-1700 (Edition reprint)
Dorothy Margaret Vaughan
AMS Press, 1976
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._1683867_n.jpg
Or this one: Albanian indeed the right to look on Greek, Roman, Norman, Angevin, Servian, Ventian and Ottoman, as alike intruders whithin his own immemorial land
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4863425_n.jpg
Or this:
If there is a truly autochthonous race in the world it is certainly the Albanian race, as it is formed of the descendants of the Pelasgians and has kept for centuries the unique qualities of energy and intelligence which characterized its ancestors.
In the whole of Macedonia the Albanian language is spoken and the villages of Janina and Scutari are alone peopled by Albanians.
p.587
Public opinion, Volume 34
The Public Opinion Co.,
Princeton University
Or:
Alber Pike:
...in fact, but autochtons.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3956048_n.jpg), from where ? (and why there are no any serious institution in the World, that confirm that migration)... ?
- Tell me how albanians called them self in middle ages, and what is the history of that name in this region ?
- Tell me why they now are still called Albanian, and what is the history of this name in this region ?
- Tell me why albanians, when after all thraco-illyrian (from Illyria, Macedonia & Epir region) tribes, retread in the mounains around the Illyrian tribe Albanoi, decided to call themself shqiptar (what is the meaning of this name) ?
- Tell me why albanians lived in the mountains and latter the slavs in the fields ?
- Tell me who are the native, those who live in the mountains, or those who live in the fields ?
- Tell me why they have pelasgian, illyrian, thracian, etruscan, hittite... words in their lexicon?
- Tell me why they have greek and latin atrocities in their langauge ?
- Tell me how can they borrow so much Latin and a few Greek words, if they whould not live near them (greeks) or under them (latins), when they (latins) invaded Illyrian peninsula ?
- Tell me why some albanian roots and other small semantic units are in the greek and latin language ?
- Tell me from where are derived these albanian pure words (which are not greek, not latin, not slavic... but a particular language in their own) ?
- Tell me why all international serious scientists (linguists), whith the method of comparison of the language, and etymology ... have reached the conclusion that Albanian is one of the oldest languages ​​of the continent (are they all nationalist) ?
- Tell me why albanians language has so much sub-dialects (Dr. Robert Elsie was registred 137 of them, but there are much more); Does that mean that these people have lived in a wider region (about ancient greeks, or the elite of the region, they were barbarians= Pelasgians, or Thraco-Illyrian tribes... Epirotes, Macedonians...), but of the same culture (the same language) ?
Answer me about all these question, if you don't want to spam again...
...
Also, against your serbian propaganda, I've posted you so much material here:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page5
... to make up your mind, but as always, you don't read or care at all !

Also about "migration" i've posted you so much materials there, and above also... but as always, you don't evend read!
Let's try one by one again.... from a book, not from my mind:
(Let's give sentence by sentence, as a child, because you don't read:)
Step 1:
...We are able to trace with tolerable certainty the long series of historical transformations by which the ancient Epirotes, Illyrians, and Macedonians, were reborn during the Middle Ages into the modern Albanian race...
Ridpath's history of the world - Ridpath, John Clark, Volume: 2 - New York, Merrill & Baker
Step 2 in the second comment, this time i will not post you another book ;)


Some albanian were able better to survive when they change their religion in Islam, because then the differences beetwen south slavic invaders and new greeks, became double (national & religious). Other orthodox albanians become the greaters greeks and slavs... you can see it today from their DNA ;)
Also I posted you the first constitution of the new Greek state in 1821
This is the approach that today Greece and "new greek nation" is formed. Here's the constitution of 1821 in Greece
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1227707_n.jpg

Here is translated in english:
http://i55.tinypic.com/29qjyuu.jpg

...is clearly seen in what basis the Greek state was formed, thus clearly stating that the Greeks had no need to talk Greek, or to have Greek blood, enough was the religion (ie Orthodox) and this policy made possible the absorption (or assimilation) of many other ethnicities.


You have a great fantasy, but why you post in a thread about the albanians, when you don't now nothing at all about these people.
Albanians have a SURVIVAL history, and a CONTINUAL RESTRICION of the territory and population (what is still going on...!).


While I'm reading people like you, is being made ​​completely clear :)
Illyrian origin about albanians is composed from international scientists, not by Albanians. No serious study is not done by the Albanians, because they did not have a free state, institutions ... only in the case of the Albanians we can say that nationalism has no place!


Albanian intelectuals have another job to do... how to make money, because we still are poorest people of Europe ;)
If there would not have been (And I bow in gratitude before them) German, French, English, Italian, American and any Slavic or Greek free scientists, albanians will proceed to be the most unknown nation to them. The period of iluminasion in Europe, was when europian scientists started to be interested about the language and history of albanians and ancient Europe at all, whithout pseudo-nationalism. Because science has suffered a lot from people like you!
Like Johan Erik Tunman said in his ”Untersuchungen uber die Geschichte oestlichen europaeischen Voelker” (Leipzig 1774)

No other race in the living World is such unknown for the western Europians like the Albanians are. Nevertheless, they used to be the main race in the antiquity playing a dominant role in it, so any scholar who study history would be interested for. Their history would have filled the great gaps in the history of Europe old or new whatsoever. However… now, they dont play any special role anymore. Now they are subservient, they are unfortunate, and the western historians in these circumstances behave in an unfair way, the same with regular people, they dont have respect for the unfortunate ones.

There was no Albanians in ancient times, do you see people saying there where Italians, French , Dutch, English etc etc people in ancient times. No you do not, so stop mixing modern terminology of people with ancient tribes.

[Taranis]

I think the word elf is after another meaning

elf in northern many things by with south is connected with deer (ελαφ-ος)
elf might be connected with hunting tribes or cultures who wear deer horns etc mainly deep forest culture
godess artemis living and worship style,
ιερα ελαφος

You are wrong. The Greek word 'elapho-' has a different reflex in Germanic. The PIE root is *elenbho-, which is reflected in English as 'lamb'. Cognates also exist in the Celtic languages (Welsh 'elain', Old Irish 'elit' - both meaning 'doe').

while the word alba exist in Greek as alabastros albiona
probably connection of word white or change of al with la
remember the stone for stone is la
so maybe in latium is mountain Albani but if it original was mount Labani means rocky mountains as in Pelasgian minoan etc
compare the word La-riss = Stone fortification or rocky nose (acropolis)
Lapis in italian
Lapis lazuli
Labrys (the stone hammer)

personnaly both are accepted

since albion is also the white seagull
(compare albatros) etc
Besides albion (england) in Greek means land of seagulls

alba must be also connected with alabaster

You are also wrong here. The word "Albatros" is derived from Arabic via Spanish "Alcatraz".

Both the Celtic and Germanic (as well as Latin) words are indeed derived from "Albh-".

There was no Albanians in ancient times, do you see people saying there where Italians, French , Dutch, English etc etc people in ancient times. No you do not, so stop mixing modern terminology of people with ancient tribes.

Well, we have no idea what the Proto-Albanians designated themselves as. As established before, "Albanians" in an exonym (just like "Germans" or "Welsh"), and we do not know how the Proto-Albanians in Antiquity designated themselves.

To pick the example of the Welsh, their self-designation "Cymry" would have been rendered as "Combrogi" in Antiquity. However, we don't see that term. Instead, we only find the designation Britons (Latin 'Britanni', which applied for all Celtic peoples in Britain - at least those living south of the Hadrian's Wall), as well as individual tribal names (Ordovici, Silures, etc.). So, we can expect that the Welsh identity only emerged in the Dark Ages when the Britonic tribes had to band together to fight off the Anglo-Saxons.

For the Proto-Albanians, if they designated themselves as something akin to "Shqiptar" in Aniquity, we should see names like "Skipteri" or "Skipteroi" attested, which we don't.