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Thread: G2a and E-V13 in Neolithic Spain (5000 BCE)

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    The findings do not, in my opinion, contradict the Greek-and-Roman E1b1b1 spread theory. The pre-Greek E-v13 might have been superseded, the same as G2a , with the advancement of R1b and celebrated a substantial comeback with the development of Greek colonies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spongetaro View Post
    Sorry to go completely offtopic, but my feeling is that Kabyle like Zidane and mesolithic E-M81 that cross Gibraltar detroit had similar looking. Not far from that of Sardinian people. The med admixture could have been prevalant in those people that's why you don't find much Northwest African admixture in Iberian and French nowadays.

    Sardinian man

    Karim Benzema and Zinedine Zidane
    lol the first guy is simply a dinaro-med heavy tanned because he is photographed in summer, maybe he isn't either sardinian considering that people behind you are not dressing sardinian costumes, probably he belongs to a non sardinian folk group invited in Sardinia.
    dinaro-meds are mainly common in south italy, sicily and some part of balkans, surely he hasn't anything of north african.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quaquaraqua View Post
    lol the first guy is simply a dinaro-med heavy tanned because he is photographed in summer, maybe he isn't either sardinian considering that people behind you are not dressing sardinian costumes, probably he belongs to a non sardinian folk group invited in Sardinia.
    dinaro-meds are mainly common in south italy, sicily and some part of balkans, surely he hasn't anything of north african.
    See by yourself if they are Sardinians or not

    http://www.flickr.com/groups/[email protected]/pool/page5/

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    Quote Originally Posted by spongetaro View Post
    See by yourself if they are Sardinians or not
    and so? every person shot by tourists in Sardinia should be ethnically sardinian because is posted on flickr? that photo was shot during the ufifesta in the town of macomer, a folk festival where are invited folk groups from many parts of italy and also foreign groups, and the man is only a simple dinaro med tanned, photographed the 4th september (summer), so fully european looking, he could fit in many countries of southern europe.

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    waiting more data, here are ma thoughts:
    (knowing that it's uncertain linking Y haplo's to autosomals:)
    ZZ (not pure) presents some Combe-Capelle features (as some Sardinians) but I bet C-C is linked to Y-I2a1a - not to Y-E1b-M81 -
    E-M81 could have put feet in Iberia at the Neolithic (Capsian?), and at that period the crossing around Gibraltar was maybe dangerous enough: more males than females? the Y-E-M81 not overwhealmy dominant nowadays (5% to 12% perhaps?) and only in Western Spain) didn't played aso big role for autosomals, even their females - and Kabyles as a whole are very far to be all on the ZZ model - this kind of shape could have been send in N-Maghreb by SOME OF the bearers of the 'mediterranean autosomals' (a package that could be broken out in the future?) whatever their Y HG's (possibly I2a1a) - the previous 'aquitan' phenotype is I think an reduced (body) evolution of an old mixture of Cro-Magnons types and Combe-Capelle types, and it's found yet in a region where we find some I2a1a... (Central Eastern Spain, Gascogne, Sardigna ...) - just for the fun

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    What quaquaraqua says must be considered. However, the problem is bigger than that: using 1 phenotypical example (even if ethnic Sardinian) to prove all Sardinians look the same way and, furthermore, linking them strongly with E-M81 as well as doing so with Iberians and French...you know, it becomes too much complicated and strange.

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    This is what I have discover so far Combining the DNA, the Bible and Roman and Greek Mythology

    1) That the E Halopgroup is Hamitic or descendants of Ham (similar to? the usage of Jews for Semites using for it the Biblical Character Shem, or similar to the Biblical character Japheth which his descendants now are called Caucasians)

    2) I Read a good book called the Faces of the Hamitic People by Khamit Raamah Kush which I found let some light to my Hamitic roots
    3) Googled I found that the E-V13 gene pool are Original Roman-Trojan genes (Since Saturn Jupiter and Zeus are associated with Nimrod, a descendant of Cush via Ham, and histories of Nimrod seeking refuge on the 7 hills of Rome and from that point on the Original Romans called him Saturn, Originating the Feast of Saturnilia on December 25)

    4) The E-V13 gene root Ancestor was Nimrod the Powerful Hunter Before the Lord also called as well the Orion, Zeus and Jupiter? and Saturn etc

    5) Ham would be the E Halopgroup ==> Cush (Cronus)= E-M35 ==> Nimrod (Zeus)= E-V13 ==> Dardanus = Dardania ==> Tros = Troy (Trojans)==> Ilus =(Illum) Illyria (Albania)==> Latinus = Latin (the Roman form of the Greek Lateinos) Lateo "to lie hid" or the hidden one)==> Romulos = Founder of the Roman Empire ==> Me an E-V13

    6) The Clue for my findings were the Ethiopians and the Yemeni E-M35 as they fit perfectly the Biblical account of Being the descendants of Cush

    7)Famous Hamitics E-M35 include Albert Einstein, The wright Brothers, and even Hittler. However looks like throughout history there has been lots of converts of this Hamitic Branch to Jud

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    Quote Originally Posted by neonimrod View Post
    This is what I have discover so far Combining the DNA, the Bible and Roman and Greek Mythology

    1) That the E Halopgroup is Hamitic or descendants of Ham (similar to? the usage of Jews for Semites using for it the Biblical Character Shem, or similar to the Biblical character Japheth which his descendants now are called Caucasians)

    2) I Read a good book called the Faces of the Hamitic People by Khamit Raamah Kush which I found let some light to my Hamitic roots
    3) Googled I found that the E-V13 gene pool are Original Roman-Trojan genes (Since Saturn Jupiter and Zeus are associated with Nimrod, a descendant of Cush via Ham, and histories of Nimrod seeking refuge on the 7 hills of Rome and from that point on the Original Romans called him Saturn, Originating the Feast of Saturnilia on December 25)

    4) The E-V13 gene root Ancestor was Nimrod the Powerful Hunter Before the Lord also called as well the Orion, Zeus and Jupiter? and Saturn etc

    5) Ham would be the E Halopgroup ==> Cush (Cronus)= E-M35 ==> Nimrod (Zeus)= E-V13 ==> Dardanus = Dardania ==> Tros = Troy (Trojans)==> Ilus =(Illum) Illyria (Albania)==> Latinus = Latin (the Roman form of the Greek Lateinos) Lateo "to lie hid" or the hidden one)==> Romulos = Founder of the Roman Empire ==> Me an E-V13

    6) The Clue for my findings were the Ethiopians and the Yemeni E-M35 as they fit perfectly the Biblical account of Being the descendants of Cush

    7)Famous Hamitics E-M35 include Albert Einstein, The wright Brothers, and even Hittler. However looks like throughout history there has been lots of converts of this Hamitic Branch to Jud
    what about the Japhetic ...the non semitic "brother" who had these sons




    Tubal dominated Iberia....I cannot see how his "uncle" Hamitic encrouched on japheth's sons lands
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

  9. #59
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    Very good point zanipolo, the Japhetics descendents settle as you mention above, I totally agree with it, however our Hamitic branch via Nimrod settle in Rome, Albania and Kosovo, Greece, Macedonia and Montegro, the exact places where the E-V13 is at it highests. Nimrod was called Saturn and worshiped by the early Romans, they celebrated his birthday with the feast was called Saturnilia which is December 25, to this day all Freemason worship him as the first Mason. you can google there is allot of info regarding Saturn and Nimrod or Nimrod and Jupiter, and the shoe fits perfectly as the DNA footprint of us his descendents.

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    Where do Amerindians and Australian Aborigines fit in the Biblical story combined with genetics?

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    most Amerindians belong to Halopgroup Q, if you check the DNA research sites you will see that Halopgroup P is both Parent of Q and R, so their common ancestor is Japheth.

    as for us E-V13 it was easy as the Etiopians and Yemenis still live there so it was easy to retrace the Biblical accounts and Greek and Roman Mythologies plus DNA

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    because when it comes to Nimrod, it is say he went to rule as well Assyria, as you know Ashur was a Semite, and when you see that on the Balkans and Romans the E-V13 is coming together with the J2 you start to see a patern there, as well as I mentioned above Nimrod's Father is Cush as on the Biblical account Cush is as well the Father of the Etiopians and Yemeni among others.

    Nimrod wa
    Hamitic and Kushite
    An E-V13
    Mighty Hunter before the Lord(Orion)
    First King of Earth
    Builder of cities
    The First to train dogs for hunting
    The First to train the horse for riding (Centaurus)
    Father of the Romans-Latins
    Known as Zeus-Jupiter-Saturn
    Born on December 25 that's why his children the Romans or Latins celebrated the feast of Saturnilia that day ]

    Built
    Babel (Babylon), Erech, Accad and Calneh, all in the land of Shinar was built by Nimrod, Then He built in the territory of Assyria Nineveh and Rehoboth-Ir and Calah and Resen Between Nineveh and Calah

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    Why are you trying to fit genetic trees in the ones called in the Bible? You have to be careful with using ancient sources.

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    I read somewhere that Socrates had African features so he could have been Hg E. Aristotle was a Macedon as he was Alexander's tutor.

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    @oriental Haplgorups have nothing to do with the way you look. I know of an Albanian girl who did a genetic test and she got E-V13. She has blue eyes and light hair and you could easily confuse her for being a Swede or Norwegian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast View Post
    @oriental Haplgorups have nothing to do with the way you look. I know of an Albanian girl who did a genetic test and she got E-V13. She has blue eyes and light hair and you could easily confuse her for being a Swede or Norwegian.
    Of course, one's looks are determined by the culture. During the time of Socrates there was more segregation. By modern time after 2,000 years assuming 20-years as one generation, it would be 200 generations the Hg E group living in a European environment and with gene flow would look like modern European e.g. Wright Brothers, Albert Einstein, Lyndon Baines Johnson, Napolean Bonaparte and Adolphe Hitler who promoted the "Aryan" race not being Aryan himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Ber- is a Georgian/pre-Georgian word for wolf, not Greek, so the connection if it exists must be deeper.
    This is very interesting. Seems like allot of Caucasian people call themselves Wolves. for example Chechens identify as wolves. In Chechen Wolf means Borz.. similar to the Georgian word Ber. They call themselves Borz.

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    I kind of agree, this way our Base Halopgroup E-M35 is the richest in diversity so far,
    as You said some are white you can find them in Europe, North America and Latin America, Kosovars, Albanians...
    others are Brown like the Egyptians, Moroccans, the Libyans Latin Americans, South Italians, Greeks, Macedonians, Kosovars, Alabanians...
    while others are Blacks like the Ethiopians and Somalis to mentions some...

    however as per the Oriental look that is because the Chinese have allot in common with Halopgroup E, although the Orientals or most of the Orientals are Halopgroup O, they are Descendents of Ham via Canaan son Sine.
    As well the Japanese who are D, this ramification almost is non existent as it was done to differenciate them of E but they are the same as us with our same Ancestor Ham.
    This is why you can see that most of the eyes of the E-V13 or E-M35s have the eagle eye or some extraforeskin above the eyes, just like the eagles, this is why in Albania we are called the sons of the Eagle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neonimrod View Post
    most Amerindians belong to Halopgroup Q, if you check the DNA research sites you will see that Halopgroup P is both Parent of Q and R, so their common ancestor is Japheth.

    as for us E-V13 it was easy as the Etiopians and Yemenis still live there so it was easy to retrace the Biblical accounts and Greek and Roman Mythologies plus DNA
    So 'Japheth' was haplogroup P? :):):) You didn't answer about the Australian aborigens

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    Yes, it seems like the Wolf was one of the most ancient deities of the Caucasian peoples, having roots in prehistoric shamanic practices.

    And there are interesting parallels with Scandinavian Úlfhéðnar and Berserks.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    neonimrod,

    while I see that you have attempted to give quite a thought attempting to correlate biblical genealogy with genetics, you're operating wholly under a large set false assumptions. The first is the assumption that the biblical genealogy must be assumed to be correct, and it obviously cannot be assumed to be correct since it involves tracing all of humanity back to the survivors of the Deluge. A deluge in the biblical sense never happened (there's a good deal of evidence that the Black Sea flooding event that occured around 7500 years before present may have been the inspiration for the biblical myth), and asserting that it literally happened makes you move into the realm of creationists. At that note, it should be pointed out that biblical Deluge story is not the original, it was merely borrowed from the Gilgamesh Epic of Sumerians - thus also casting doubt on the claim of biblical authority.

    Finally I'd like to point out another flaw: you're trying to include ethnic groups which the writers of the bible must have been clearly unaware. The "known world" of the ancient Jews basically included only the Near East, and they had no knowledge of western or northern Europe, let alone of Australia or the Americas.

    I might want to point out that in early stages (well into the 19th century), linguists attempted a similar classification as you do know, trying to trace language families to Ham, Sem and Japeth - they obviously failed. One of these terms, the "Semitic" languages, are still used by linguistics today, but the other concepts obviously failed. Linguists realized that what they deemed "Hamitic" languages was actually not a natural group, and that the Semitic languages should be included, which is why we refer to the former "Hamito-Semitic" languages as "Afroasiatic" languages.

    Finally, the ancient Jews were as unaware of genetics as they were of linguistics. So, in a nutshell, a cursory analysis of your idea shows that it is absolutely non-working.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast View Post
    @oriental Haplgorups have nothing to do with the way you look. I know of an Albanian girl who did a genetic test and she got E-V13. She has blue eyes and light hair and you could easily confuse her for being a Swede or Norwegian.
    So you know a girl with a Y-chromosome ? Impressive. Except that we call them boys/men, not girls.
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    autosomals are only loosely linked to Y or mtDNA, only on a statistical point of view - phenotypes and autosomals are very more tightly linked one together - even in a statistical meaning, Y DNA can know a big enough drift by male elite desequilibrium (it is my personal problem with my first believings and my present confusion concerning Y-R1b in Western Europe, even if I have not made completely my switch off yet)- I think it is still interesting trying to discover some %s links between these different elements of cognition, but yes it is very useless speak about few individuals phenotypes when trying to find populations origins and admixtures: it is not saying phenotypes have no worth, but only at a big scale -
    for this thread, I think it would be necessery to have the detailed SNP's of Y-G in Iberia because G is not so rare (in Portugal it is common enough) but it seams to me having more than one origin (Neolithic, Alani, and in North Iberia (Cantabrias, Asturias) a possible south-Germany or Switzerland origin, mixed with other HGs (a lot of possible hypothesis and dates, from BB to Late Bronze)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    neonimrod,

    while I see that you have attempted to give quite a thought attempting to correlate biblical genealogy with genetics, you're operating wholly under a large set false assumptions. The first is the assumption that the biblical genealogy must be assumed to be correct, and it obviously cannot be assumed to be correct since it involves tracing all of humanity back to the survivors of the Deluge. A deluge in the biblical sense never happened (there's a good deal of evidence that the Black Sea flooding event that occured around 7500 years before present may have been the inspiration for the biblical myth), and asserting that it literally happened makes you move into the realm of creationists. At that note, it should be pointed out that biblical Deluge story is not the original, it was merely borrowed from the Gilgamesh Epic of Sumerians - thus also casting doubt on the claim of biblical authority.

    Finally I'd like to point out another flaw: you're trying to include ethnic groups which the writers of the bible must have been clearly unaware. The "known world" of the ancient Jews basically included only the Near East, and they had no knowledge of western or northern Europe, let alone of Australia or the Americas.

    I might want to point out that in early stages (well into the 19th century), linguists attempted a similar classification as you do know, trying to trace language families to Ham, Sem and Japeth - they obviously failed. One of these terms, the "Semitic" languages, are still used by linguistics today, but the other concepts obviously failed. Linguists realized that what they deemed "Hamitic" languages was actually not a natural group, and that the Semitic languages should be included, which is why we refer to the former "Hamito-Semitic" languages as "Afroasiatic" languages.

    Finally, the ancient Jews were as unaware of genetics as they were of linguistics. So, in a nutshell, a cursory analysis of your idea shows that it is absolutely non-working.

    I find interesting that although Shem or Sem for Semite is fictional supposedly as Ham or the Hamitics, they still chose to use the term Semitics?

    Science, Religion and even Mythology have always been manipulated by certain groups, and on science on the Genetic side they claim the E-V13 as farmers, what a doubious claim, then the Bible explicitly talks about Cush and Nimrod, yet He is trying to be discredited by the Semites and the Japhetics
    and Mythology even Saturn is clearly Nimrod, they picture him totally as anything but an E-v13

    the whole world is divided in the following way:
    Either you are
    1) Hamitic (Halopgroups D or E or O among others)
    2)Semitic (Halopgroups I or J)
    3)Caucasian-aryan-Japhethic (R or P or Q or G Halopgroups)

    yet over and over we see the last two groups falsely claim the the Hamitic achievements as follows:

    The Semites falsely claim as Semites the following:
    Albert Einstein He is an E-M35 a Hamitic
    Shalom Ben Amram Samaritan High Priest He is an E-M35 a Hamitic

    Japhethics or Caucasians Falsely Claim as Caucasians the Following:
    The Wright Brothers they are E-M35 Hamitics
    Hittler He is an E-M35 a Hamitic
    Pope Paul V He is an E-M35 a Hamitic
    Caravaggio He is an E-M35 a Hamitic
    So see guys E-M35 comes in White Brown Yellow Black
    And it can be found in:
    Europe Latin America North America the Middle East Asia and Africa

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    Am I missing A and B? :) :)

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