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Thread: The Albanian language

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    ok explanation maybe will help

    Arbanitan from 4 islands Ydra island

    Ljiaese na perguljia major meaning is you get a bath a wash under the vineyard, or you take a sunbath under a vineyard,
    I have seen both translations but more possible is first
    This text still makes no sense to me... (in the meaning that I know no similar Albanian words similar to those)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Arbanitan of North AThens and Leyktra
    do ta press kotsidet gliate, nte tsi throuim nte i tate, Do ta pres kotsidet, lieto vente (vante) filaki
    I will cut your big (long) pigtails, but I afraid your father I will cut your pigtails, let me go (even if I have to go) to prison
    Kotsidet, throuim, and filaki make no sense again. Vente in that meaning there is weird, cause in modern Albanian, vente is third person singular so it cant be translated "let me". Vante is Gheg version and that /a/ is a nasal /a/ (correctly written it should have a cap on like this ^ but above the /a/).

    For Tate i took the wild guess meaning yours (the most used versions), but in middle Albania (between Shkumbin and Mat) especially in Tirana dialect they still use it for dad (who still speaks in dialect), and is very common in Tirana traditional/popular (popular, not famous but people songs) songs

    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Kleft Arbanites of Thessaly
    bante tsupra te billete lioulie
    go girl (lady - miss) to gather flowers
    Bante is weird in that meaning, and I'm sure is modern Albanian Bënte (modern Gheg-Bante with the cap /a/). Tsupra still the wrong guess by me. Modern Albanian equivalent is Çupa (tshupa since ts is the albanian c and tsh is ç). Billete similar word to Albanian would be mbledh. Maybe are the same word, maybe not. Lioulie is weird cause it has 3 vocals but if it really means flowers, Albanian would be "lule".

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endri View Post
    This text still makes no sense to me... (in the meaning that I know no similar Albanian words similar to those)



    Kotsidet, throuim, and filaki make no sense again. Vente in that meaning there is weird, cause in modern Albanian, vente is third person singular so it cant be translated "let me". Vante is Gheg version and that /a/ is a nasal /a/ (correctly written it should have a cap on like this ^ but above the /a/).

    For Tate i took the wild guess meaning yours (the most used versions), but in middle Albania (between Shkumbin and Mat) especially in Tirana dialect they still use it for dad (who still speaks in dialect), and is very common in Tirana traditional/popular (popular, not famous but people songs) songs



    Bante is weird in that meaning, and I'm sure is modern Albanian Bënte (modern Gheg-Bante with the cap /a/). Tsupra still the wrong guess by me. Modern Albanian equivalent is Çupa (tshupa since ts is the albanian c and tsh is ç). Billete similar word to Albanian would be mbledh. Maybe are the same word, maybe not. Lioulie is weird cause it has 3 vocals but if it really means flowers, Albanian would be "lule".
    correct
    lets take them one by one
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    you are right, it is Lodrene, I just check it, sorry for writing it wrong


    try this

    Ljiaese na pergouljia

    Do ta press kotsidet gliate

    nte tsi throuim nte i tate

    Lieto vente (vante) filaki


    bante tsoupra te billete lioulie !!!!!
    seems these are mixed Alb/Greek words written by a non-Alb

    let me try:

    Ljiaese na pergouljia - laheshe ne (pergoulja-i guess this is Greek word) - washed under ...

    Do ta press kotsidet gliate - do ta pres gershetin e gjate - I will cut your long pony tail hair

    nte tsi throuim nte i tate - por qe turpem nga yt ate - but I am afraid of your father

    Lieto vente (vante) filaki - ??? this I do not understand


    bante tsoupra te billete lioulie - vente cupa te mblidhte lule - the girl went to pick flowers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Bucca Baker Serbian Pekara Brygian Bekos means something Bread, or a baked a food
    That is not the answer to what i asked.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kesi View Post
    seems these are mixed Alb/Greek words written by a non-Alb

    let me try:

    Ljiaese na pergouljia - laheshe ne (pergoulja-i guess this is Greek word) - washed under ...

    Do ta press kotsidet gliate - do ta pres gershetin e gjate - I will cut your long pony tail hair

    nte tsi throuim nte i tate - por qe turpem nga yt ate - but I am afraid of your father

    Lieto vente (vante) filaki - ??? this I do not understand


    bante tsoupra te billete lioulie - vente cupa te mblidhte lule - the girl went to pick flowers
    pjergull means "hardhi" or grapevine, exists in albanian

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8mike View Post
    That is not the answer to what i asked.
    If you know the answer why you ask?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    If you know the answer why you ask?
    i asked why Orel's etymology was right, you responded with words from other languages without saying anything else

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8mike View Post
    i asked why Orel's etymology was right, you responded with words from other languages without saying anything else
    I see your point, and I gave you the answer,
    If you want to search more ask for Grim's laws

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8mike View Post
    pjergull means "hardhi" or grapevine, exists in albanian
    I had never heard "pjergull" till now, but I asked and apparently it exist as a word, among "hardhi" and "vreshta", all meaning "grapevine". Though, at least "pjergull" and "vreshta" show different types of "grapevine".

    Any one has any idea of the origin of this 3 words which basically mean the same thing?

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8mike View Post
    pjergull means "hardhi" or grapevine, exists in albanian
    yes, it's true - pjergull of course exists with the meaning you mention. it's just that the way the words are written make them look Greek or some other language.

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    Pjergulla e rrushit is pergola of grapevine, vreshta/vneshta is vineyard, hardhi e rrushit is grapevine. There is one more name in use in Kosova, gixha e rrushit which I do not know how to translate.
    Last edited by FBS; 17-04-12 at 09:54. Reason: typing mistake

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBS View Post
    Pjergulla e rrushit is pergola of grapevine, vreshta/vneshta is vineyard, hardhi e rrushit is grapevine. There is one more name in use in Kosova, grigja e rrushit which I do not know how to translate.
    correct pergola. and is not Greek.

    the word is imported in Greek, exist only in Athens, so it is imported by arbanites in modern Greek,
    the Greek word is κληματαρια σκαλωσια, klimataria and skalosia are after words κλιμαξ (stairs) and scale -Scala(stair step, Aromani and Byzantine word), skalosia could also be imported, since original Greek is Βαθμις Vathmis-Bathmis

    so how the word Pergola pass in Albanian language? or it is native to that language?

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by kesi View Post
    yes, it's true - pjergull of course exists with the meaning you mention. it's just that the way the words are written make them look Greek or some other language.
    the words are written in Greek alphabet, by arbanites them selfs, some mistakes maybe are from my personal effort to write them in Latin alphabet, and I don't deny that, if I write them in Greek I do not know how many would understand it, that is why I wrote down the meaning in English in post #216, so to be easy to compare.


    would it be easy to you? if I wrοte
    λ(z)ιαεσε να περγκουλ(z)ια


    or the one I wrote, with english meaning,


    PS
    when we write down the vocabulary of language-dialect, Science tell us that we must write down the exact sounds as they exist, and not as they should be in comparison,
    so the writing down of Arbanitika since 1700 (much before Greek revolt) is in Greek mainly, and Francais
    then we try to connect it with other known languages and dialects.

  14. #239
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    ok lets see, first

    ljiaese na perguljia
    in Greek alphabet
    λιαεσε να περγκουλια (λζιαεσε να περγκουλζια)
    you take a bath-shower under the pergola
    or you take a sunbath under the pergola

    the phrase is after an Arbanitan song from about 1800 of around Hydra area so the most possible is the first meaning
    lets compare with Greek
    λουεσαι στην περγκολα louese stin pergkola you take a bath under pergola
    λιαζεσαι στην περγολα liazese stin pergola you take a sunbath at pergola

    now if Kessi's liahese is the correct in Albanian what we see?
    the word louese liaese liahese (Gr Arb Alb) is the same,
    pergola seems to be imported to Both from Latin (maybe I am wrong)
    so the only difference is Greek στην or υπο with Albanian na which seems to prevail in Arbanitan Speech

  15. #240
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    what is the root of the word "louese"?

    laheshe - means "you washed"
    root in Alb is: laj - wash

    Laj is pronounced as the English word: lie

  16. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by kesi View Post
    what is the root of the word "louese"?

    laheshe - means "you washed"
    root in Alb is: laj - wash

    Laj is pronounced as the English word: lie

    virb present
    active λουω fut λουσω λουζω
    passive λου-ομαι ( I am washing my shelf, I am having a bath)
    second person present Λουεσαι -louese, Luese

    the case of Lysios river , Lydias river, show that in early Greek it was λυομαι (short ou)
    similar is Celtic Lindos = beautifull, attractive
    so the most ancient root in Greek is Λυ a sound among li and lu

    I do not know the *PIE form

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    virb present
    active λουω fut λουσω λουζω
    passive λου-ομαι ( I am washing my shelf, I am having a bath)
    second person present Λουεσαι -louese, Luese

    the case of Lysios river , Lydias river, show that in early Greek it was λυομαι (short ou)
    similar is Celtic Lindos = beautifull, attractive
    so the most ancient root in Greek is Λυ a sound among li and lu

    I do not know the *PIE form
    PIE root is *lewh₃-

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Yetos, I still haven't figured out what you're tryin' to prove or say but the sun cannot be covered with hay. It is as clear as it can get that Arvanitika is an Albanian dialect. Only cause these Arvanits are ashamed (or think to high of themselves) to be of Albanian origin does not mean they are not. The truth is the truth, ugly or beautiful it is what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endri View Post
    Yetos, I still haven't figured out what you're tryin' to prove or say but the sun cannot be covered with hay. It is as clear as it can get that Arvanitika is an Albanian dialect. Only cause these Arvanits are ashamed (or think to high of themselves) to be of Albanian origin does not mean they are not. The truth is the truth, ugly or beautiful it is what it is.

    ok lets see another phrase

    nte tsi throuim nte i tate

    but I am afraid of your father.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    ok lets see another phrase

    nte tsi throuim nte i tate

    but I am afraid of your father.
    "throuim" is supposed to be "trembi"? looks like a fusion between "trembi" and "trauma"

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8mike View Post
    "throuim" is supposed to be "trembi"? looks like a fusion between "trembi" and "trauma"
    semi correct trembi and tromos τρομος (terror-fear)
    what about tate = dead?

  22. #247
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    ok lets see another phrase

    nte tsi throuim nte i tate

    but I am afraid of your father.
    no such a word as "throuim" exists, it's just the rendering of the Alb/Arvanite word "turpem" by a person who does not understand Albanian language.

    nte tsi throuim nte i tate - Arvanite
    (por) qi turperm nga yt ate -Albanian
    (but) that I am ashamed/afraid of your father - English

    Albanian "turp" means=shame
    In Arvanite it also means "fear, shame"

    Being that Arvanite is Albanian language, Arvanite is NOT mutually understandable by both Greeks and Albanians. A Greek can understand only the Greek words used by Arvanites in their speech or words shared by both Greek/Alb language.

    Let me go back to the first phrase that Yetos brought.

    ljiaese na perguljia - how a Greek writes a sentence heard from an Arvanite speech
    laheshe ne pjergulla - how an Albanian renders what he hears from an Arvanite speech
    louse ? ? - how a Greek can understand from this sentence, assuming that he may mistake the Alb word "laheshe" with the Greek "louse" due to similarity (though the two are different words)

  23. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    semi correct trembi and tromos τρομος (terror-fear)
    what about tate = dead?
    Where have you found "tate" as dead?

    In that sentence, where "tate" means "father", Albanian words for "father" would be "baba", "atë" and "tate" (written exactly as you have written the Arvanit word).

    This is a song were the word "tate" is used so many times (meaning father) that you have to be deaf not to notice it.



    So Yetos, I'm asking you again, what are you tryin' to say (or prove)? It is clear that Arvanit is Albanian.

  24. #249
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Most of the sentences brought by Yetos are taken from a well known song in Arvanite but popular with Albanians too.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXvtLb7GkOQ

    Here are the lyrics (they may change slightly with the different versions of the song, some phrases added some omitted)

    Do ta pres do ta pres – I will cut
    (Do ta pres do ta pres - Alb)
    Do ta pres kocidhete – I will cut your pony tail (kocidhete –Greek word for Alb “gershet”-pony tail)
    (Do ta pres gershetin - Alb)
    Do ta pres kocidhete – same
    Do ta rrevit ga s’gjindete – I will throw where it cannot be found
    (Do ta vervit nga s'gjindet) - Alb

    Do ta pres do ta pres - I will cut
    Do ta pres kocidhete t’gljate – I will the long pony tail
    (do ta pres gershetin e gjate-Alb)
    Por qe trupem nga it ate – but I am afraid of your father
    (por qe turpem/trembem nga yt ate-Alb)

    Do ta pres do ta pres – I will cut
    Do ta pres kocidhe zi – I will cut the black pony tail hair
    (Do ta pres gershetin e zi -Alb)
    Do ta pres kocidhe zi - same
    Le te vete filaki – though I will go to prison (filaki Greek word for prison)
    (le te vete ne burg-Alb)

    Shkova nje me nat atje – One night I went there
    (shkova nje nate atje-Alb)
    Ljahjeshe ne pergule – you were washing (taking a bath) under the pergola
    (laheshe ne pjergulla-Alb)
    Ljaheshe dhe krihjeshe – washing and combing your hair
    (laheshe dhe kriheshe-Alb)
    Ljaheshe dhe krihjeshe-same
    Me tat eme ziheshe – with your mother you were fighting
    (me tet eme ziheshe-Alb)

    Ziheshe ? - you fought and ? (I don’t get the word used here)
    Se doje te martoneshe – cause you wanted to get married
    (se doje te martoheshe-Alb)
    Last edited by kesi; 15-04-12 at 15:41. Reason: hearing it once again

  25. #250
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    Which brings the next question...Yetos, where did you find the text you wrote cause honestly it seems like you heard the song (or different songs) and tried to write what you heard, using Greek equivalent letters. If you used Greek equivalent letters instead of Albanins, you should have told us that they were the Greek equivalent, and not let us reading the Greek equivalent letters like in Albanian, cause on offense, how the hell you ended up from this:

    "Por qi trupem nga it atë" to this "nte tsi throuim nte i tate" and in this case "i tate" is "it atë(yt atë, northern Tosk, it atë Southern Tosk (Gjirokastër, Cham and Arvanitika)".

    No offense but your knowledge in Albanian are basically, basic. I cannot figure out how you take the courage to discuss, and in this case write in an language you don't even know about, even more in dialect which needs a near mother tongue level of comprehension and difference of the sounds (if you wrote the text, if not please provide us with a link of the site you found them, preferably the site to be in English too)

    To me, that song, hearing it for the first time, besides the end, where i think he spoke or said Greek words, was totally understable in 99%, in contrast to your text which seemed like a "Alien Language".

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