Who overlaps with the Iberians?

Choose all relevant.

  • British

    Votes: 9 18.0%

  • Irish

    Votes: 11 22.0%

  • Germans

    Votes: 4 8.0%

  • French

    Votes: 25 50.0%

  • Scandinavians

    Votes: 1 2.0%

  • Italians

    Votes: 27 54.0%

  • Sicilians

    Votes: 15 30.0%

  • Maltese

    Votes: 10 20.0%

  • Greeks

    Votes: 12 24.0%

  • Balkan Slavs

    Votes: 2 4.0%

  • Cypriots

    Votes: 6 12.0%

  • Egyptians

    Votes: 3 6.0%

  • North Africa (Berbers)

    Votes: 18 36.0%

  • Levantines (Syrians, Lebanese)

    Votes: 5 10.0%

  • Armenians/Georgians

    Votes: 3 6.0%
  • Total voters
    50
I know they only have 20% R1b; they are not Celtic. They are dominated by hg I-M26, the Sardinian I variety, at 45% or nearly 1 out of ever 2 men. They also have about 15-20% E3b and G, with very low levels of J. They do not cluster with Iberians; they are a global isolate. Sardinians are their own different component over all, they have the highes P15 (G2a) levels in Europe which settled in Sardinia ( responsible for Nuraghic civilization) and predominantly are an isolated hg I branch present outside of Sardinia nowhere even close as high as in Sardinia. They also have pockets of R1b and E3b at lower percentages; its not only that Sardinians don't cluster with other Italians, Corsicans or Sicilians. It's that they don't cluster with any other Europeans either mostly. The first Iberians had probably R1b and certain varieties of I that waited out the LGM. Outside of Sardinia, only central Spain ( Castile/Leon region) has very low but appreciable levels of I-M26, bringing me to believe it arrived in Sardinia via central Spain as one of the first elements to reach Sardinia along with the early but separate middle-eastern arriving G2a men.
 
You cannot link perfectly populations with ymtdna because it's just a single gene, while clusters examine many many genes; and expecially admixtures which tells genetic relationships.
 
Probably Central Italians, and Sardinians.

Northern Italians not much, maybe some of them. Much of Northern Italians (like the Venetians and those from Friuli-Venezia Giulia region) would fit more in Northern Balkans than in Iberia and those native of the Alps would fit more in southern Switzerland and Southern France.

As for the south of Italy they are in their average more 'dark' and eastern mediterranean 'look' than their average Iberian.
 
But what if you know all the y-DNA and mtdna genes off the top of your head like me. Iberians cluster most with southwestern/central French samples.
 
adamo said:
I know they only have 20% R1b; they are not Celtic. They are dominated by hg I-M26, the Sardinian I variety, at 45% or nearly 1 out of ever 2 men. They also have about 15-20% E3b and G, with very low levels of J. They do not cluster with Iberians; they are a global isolate. Sardinians are their own different component over all, they have the highes P15 (G2a) levels in Europe which settled in Sardinia ( responsible for Nuraghic civilization) and predominantly are an isolated hg I branch present outside of Sardinia nowhere even close as high as in Sardinia. They also have pockets of R1b and E3b at lower percentages; its not only that Sardinians don't cluster with other Italians, Corsicans or Sicilians. It's that they don't cluster with any other Europeans either mostly. The first Iberians had probably R1b and certain varieties of I that waited out the LGM. Outside of Sardinia, only central Spain ( Castile/Leon region) has very low but appreciable levels of I-M26, bringing me to believe it arrived in Sardinia via central Spain as one of the first elements to reach Sardinia along with the early but separate middle-eastern arriving G2a men.
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Autosomal analysis does not support this view imho. It rather suggests that Sardinians are the older and less mixed mediterranean remnant due to isolation, and that Iberians deviate from Sardinians towards britain and central europe like being something like Sardinians+IE-Celts mixed. But time will tell.
 
Good post elhorsto, but I would put even less emphasis on Sardinian elements in Iberia. And very predominantly celts towards British isles, Central Europe as you suggested. Sardinians are a genetic isolate as you said, and most spaniards cluster with the two areas you stated, they're more like British isles and west continental European people's.
 
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Iberians, are a bit more fairer than sardineans, for the deviation towards central europeans, but still the west med component is highest on them, i mean have you ever seen spaniards in real life? At my university there are erasmus from spain.. and i describe them as west med looking, absolutely not british look, even many french erasmus bere are med looking and absolutely not notturne european. You cannot fools italians with the famous spaniards nordicist agendas; we know wells they don't look british, they are more or less in our pigmentation side, i dare to say darker than north italians above the po, and fairer than calabreses, taken on grups, single individues are another matters
 
French are Mediterranean? Lollllllll you are talking nonsense both French and Spanish cluster with other Celtic R1b people's, stop only visiting the stone beaches of Nice in extreme south-east France. Fool italians with my nordicist agenda? I'm italian myself I have no reason to be a nordicist, think of what your saying. Spaniards are predominantly the same as north Italians with certain more exotic J2/E3b elements in a few regions, southern Italians are comparable to Greeks and even certain middle easterners with a Celtic substratum among them.
 
The only place where they are more exotic is in the Canary Islands by the Guanches component. Moreover among us there are not many topics on the physical, unless the Spanish legendary status among the beauty of Andalusian women on the other and that the Basques are very strong, otherwise no topics among us who is more blonde or whiter or darker or less dark, that's because there are no significant differences that draw the attention of one region to another.


I think that Italy is not a country that should idolize Nordicism is too large as a country that could afford to admire himself. This can be for the bombing we've had in the world of Nordic phenotypes in advertising, film, photography, etc. you can create a model that feeds because they will always appear beautiful, but the same bombing could do the reverse with Nordic phenotypes ugly models, but has not been well of course, advertising seeks the ideal and wonderful and not have to be persuaded by advertising.
 
adamo said:
French are Mediterranean? Lollllllll you are talking nonsense both French and Spanish cluster with other Celtic R1b people's, stop only visiting the stone beaches of Nice in extreme south-east France. Fool italians with my nordicist agenda? I'm italian myself I have no reason to be a nordicist, think of what your saying. Spaniards are predominantly the same as north Italians with certain more exotic J2/E3b elements in a few regions, southern Italians are comparable to Greeks and even certain middle easterners with a Celtic substratum among them.
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yes, i think 1/3 of french falls in the med category.. For example there was a french market in my town, and guess, they were more or less like our local people, with many med fenotypes; Also many french erasmus, and french in my hotel last summer, thought i don't know from which place they were from
 
in italy the more particolar people, and outstanding beauty are people from Veneto/Friuli, extreme southern italians like sicilians and calabreses, neapolitans and sardineans
 
1/3 mediterraneans? Try more like 1/10 or 1/8 med, they are more heavily R1b and slightly I than we often give them credit for; French are very blond European.
 
Some Iberians, like Portuguese and Canarians, have high North African admixture compared to other parts of Southern Europe.
 
I take this thread as an intertainment, not a scientific debate place
"Iberians" are not completely homogenous, and less yet are French people and Italians - whatever the Y-DNA and mt-DNA and even autosomals (don't forget a lot of autosomals are selection:climate dependants)
so I think (without to fight to defend hos opinion based on EXTERNAL phenotypes (phenotypes can be invisible!!!) Southern Italians and Sardinians, yes, seem close enough to Spanyards of some regions and to Portugueses, closer than are the Greeks -
North Italians and even Central Italians, pigmentation aside, show already some visible divergeance from Iberians (body, head...) - in France, the Corsicans (if we can say "France" for Corsica!!!) and the Catalans of Rossilyo/Roussillon are the closest to Spanyards, I think - other Frenchies, even the darker, show AS A MEAN, big enough differences concerning corpulence and head form and other traits, being very various -
we speak here of means, general impressions, not of individuals, of course - and don't forget every place show variants and crossings, only the proportions differ and the elements in presence change
 
I know this opinion is not popular but I think some coastal North Africans look Iberian too.
 
Some north africans and some levantines with pure mediterranean phenotype yes they can pass in south Europe, but on average it is very easily to distinguish them from south europeans.
 
Hauteville said:
Some north africans and some levantines with pure mediterranean phenotype yes they can pass in south Europe, but on average it is very easily to distinguish them from south europeans.
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But I'd maintain also that when you do find a good match between them, North Africans and Iberians can be very close. This girl is an example, she looks a lot like many Portuguese and southern Spanish women:

leila-bekhti-j-ai-des-projets-des-films-qui-sortent-c-est-super-mais-c-est-tellement-aleatoire-photo-pqr.jpg
 
f you put 20 genuine coastal Asturians, 20 genuine Catalans and 20 genuine Malaga Andalus (and others), surely even you will see a difference, slight it's true...(the individual within differences will be stronger than the collective between ones) - sure Italians show more regional differences, and Frenchies too, that said. concerning Berbers, there are individual AND ALSO regional differences (Berber is a common term for widely spred groups: I saw big differences among them and someones without any apparent "blood drop" of subsaharian, other where this subsaharian was visible even if light, sometimes in the same group (but there autosomal means were surely equal in thi last case) - buena noche
 
Hello dear European friends, I am very angry about the Eurovision Song Contest. I have always present and pleasantly remind some more than others of course. I go to the topic, someone on Facebook said the Spaniards had small eyes and a little sad, the truth is that I have begun to notice and believe that older Spaniards have small eyes and eye shape is like soft, is as if you gave two stabs in leather. I've been watching and as I live in an area of Spain where citizens originally from all regions of Spain I have seen that small, dark brown eyes occurs in any area of Spain.
 
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