Latin & Greek words of non-Indo-European origin

To everybody,
I devoted my last decade to trace it back Pre-Greek words in Greek language. Beekes' PDF was really helpful. Among them, I finally matched one of the most enigmatic word: Βασιλεύς (gʷasileus / qa-si-re-u in Mycenaean inscriptions). It still used even nowdays in the original form (gʷ) and meaning.
 
Hrach Martirosyan an Armenian linguist call it a Mediteranean substratum
An excerpt from his paper
https://www.academia.edu/4197641/Th..._the_relationship_with_Greek_and_Indo-Iranian

6.2. Armenian and Greek: isolated words.

These words have no Indo-European etymologies and may therefore be treated as words
of substrate origin, that is to say, common borrowings from an unknown language (for a dis-
cussion of the substrate, see section 7).
6.2.1. *antȹ(­r)- ‘coal’: Arm. ant‘-eł ‘hot coal, ember’ (Łazar P‘arpec‘i, Hexaemeron, etc.),
dial. *ant‘(e)ł-oc‘ ‘metal rod for poking or stirring a fire, poker’, dial. *ant‘-(a)r- ‘coal, ember’ in
*ant‘-r-oc‘ and *ant‘-ar-oc‘ ‘poker’ (note also ant‘ayr ‘spark’ in Ba girk‘ hayoc‘ and NHB, proba-
bly from *ant‘-ar- V­); Gr. ἄνθραξ m. ‘charcoal’.123
6.2.2. *drepan-eh2: Arm. artewan-un-k‘, gen.pl. artewan-a-(n)c‘ ‘eyelashes; eyebrow’ (Bible+),
Gr. δρεπάνη, δρέπανον ‘sickle’ (from δρέπω ‘to pluck, cut off’). According to this fascinating
etymology suggested by de Lamberterie (1983; 1992: 239; 2013: 22), the human eyebrow
(and/or eyelash, see below) is taken as sickle-shaped.124
The basic meaning of artewanunk‘ is usually presented as ‘eyelid’ since it usually corre-
sponds to Gr. βλέφαρον ‘eyelid’ in the Bible. NHB and HAB, however, describe the Armenian
word as ‘eyelashes’, and so does de Lamberterie (1983: 21) in French, ‘cils’. Indeed, in some
biblical passages ‘eyelash’ (or ‘eyebrow’) would make more sense than ‘eyelid’, e.g. Proverbs
6.25 (mí yap‘štakic‘is artewanambk‘ nora “do not be captivated with her eyelashes/eyebrows”) or
Jeremiah 9.18 (ew artewanunk‘ jer błxesc‘en ǰur “and let your eyelashes drop water”). Note also
that the derivatives of Gr. βλέφαρον display a semantic vacillation between ‘eyelid’ and ‘eye-
lash’. And finally, a few passages from original (non-translated) literary sources make the
meaning ‘eyelash’ quite clear (e.g. maz artewanac‘ “hair of eyelashes”).
In a remarkable passage from Movsēs Xorenac‘i 2.42 we reed: “a multitude of vineyards
resembled the beautiful crescent of thick lashes (zartewananc‘ xit ew gełec‘ik cir); on the northern
side its curved form truly imitated the arching brows of charming maidens (geławor kusic‘
yōnic‘)” (transl. Thomson 2006: 180). We can see that artewanunk‘ cannot mean ‘eyelid’ here since
it is compared to vineyards. Nor does it mean ‘eyebrow’ since the latter is present here by its
main designation, yōnk‘. There can be no doubt that Thomson’s translation as ‘eyelash’ is correct.
6.2.3. *sepȹ-s- or *seps- ‘to boil, cook’: Arm. ep‘em ‘to cook, boil’; Gr. ἕψω ‘to boil, seethe (of
meat and the like); to smelt, refine (of metals)’.125
6.2.4. *t(a)rp-eh2: Arm. t‘arp‘ / t‘arb (abl. i t‘arb-ē) ‘large wicker fishing-basket, creel’, Gr.
τάρπη f., ταρπός, τερπός m., ταρπόνη f. ‘large wicker basket’; probably a common borrowing
from a lost source.126
6.2.5. * in l(u)m- ‘hinge’: Arm. cłxni, ea­stem (loc.sg. i cłxnw-oǰ, gen.dat.pl. cłxn-e-ac‘), čxni,
čx/łan, dial. člxan ‘door hinge’; Gr. γί(γ)γλυμος m. (dimin. γι(γ)γλύμιον n.) ‘hinge, joint, pivot,
gudgeon’. Mediterranean word (Martirosyan 2012). (HM)
6.2.6. *kalam- ‘aspen; plane’: Arm. kaǻamax(i) ‘white poplar, aspen’; Gr. καλαμίν-δαρ·
πλάτανος ἡδονιεῖς ‘plane’, obviously with *dar ‘tree’ (Hesychius); in neighbouring non-Indo-
European languages: Salmast Turk. k‘äläm-bär ‘aspen’, T‘avriz Turk. qälämä ‘poplar’; in Dagh-
estan languages: Lak kalaxi, Rutul kalax ‘aspen’. For the semantic relationship, cf. Arm. čandar
‘poplar’ and ‘plane’; op‘i ‘poplar, aspen’ and Łarabaǻ *hop‘i ‘plane’. The ending ­ax in Armenian
may be a suffix, possibly seen also in meǻ-ex ‘the handle of an axe’ (if related with Gr. μελία
‘manna ash, ashen spear’) and taws-ax ‘box-tree’. The correspondence Arm. k vs. Gr. κ here and
in a few of the lexemes that follow points to a later stage of Mediterranean substrate vocabulary.
6.2.7. *kast(an)- ‘chestnut’: Arm. kask-eni ‘chestnut-tree’ if from *kast-(u)k-eni (for the suf-
fix, cf. hačar-uk and dial. hačar-k-i ‘beech-tree’); Gr. κάστανον n. ‘chestnut’, καστανέα f. ‘chest-
nut-tree’.
6.2.8. *karid- ‘crayfish’: Arm. karič, a­stem ‘scorpion’, dial. ‘crayfish’ < *karid- ā f.; Gr.
κᾱρίς, ­ίδος, ­ῖδος (also κουρίς, κωρίς) f., probably a general term for small crustaceans, in-
cluding shrimp and prawn. For the (old feminine) suffix *­ieh2, note Arm. dial. *mormonǰ ‘ant’ <
*mormon- eh2 (cf. morm ‘tarantula’ and Gr. Μορμώv ‘bogey, bugbear’, see § 6.4.8). Note also
Arm. kor, gen. kor-i ‘scorpion’ (Dersim dial. g r-ǰ), which is reminiscent of the Greek by-forms
κουρίς, κωρίς.
6.2.9. *gorio- ‘drain’: Arm. kori ‘drain, channel’, Gr. γοργύριον n. ‘subterranean channel’. (HM)
6.2.10. *gɀ(e)m/bȹur eh2 ‘bridge’: Arm. kamurǰ, a­stem ‘bridge’, Gr. γέφῡρα f. (Boeot. βέφυρα,
Cret. δέφυρα, Lac. δίφουρα) ‘bridge’; in non-Indo-European languages: Hatt. amuru(wa)
‘beam’, Abkhaz *qɀ (m)b l -ra ‘beam over the hearth, cross-beam’, etc. The Proto-Armenian
theoretical by-form *kaburǰ- may have been reflected in Urart. qaburzani possibly meaning
‘bridge’ in a recently discovered inscription.
6.2.11. *mos ȹ-o/io- ‘young bovine’: Arm. mozi ‘young bovine, calf’,127 dial. mozi or di-
minutive mozik, mostly ‘male or female calf’, in some dialects: ‘young ox’, ‘female foal, filly’,
‘young buffalo’; Gr. μόσχος m.f. ‘calf, young bull, any young animal’, metaphorically ‘boy’ or
‘girl, maid’, m. ‘young shoot or twig’, μοσχάς, ­άδος f. ‘shoot, slip; heifer’, μοσχίας ‘like a calf
(used of any young animal); three-year-old ram’; diminutives: μοσχίον ‘young calf’, μοσχίδιον
‘small shoot’, μοσχ-άριον n. ‘young calf’.1
...
6.2.13. *(H)olur-: Arm. oloṙn, an-stem ‘pea, bean’, dial. hǘlì( ) n (Goris, Łarabaǻ hǘlì n );
Gr. ὄλυραι f. pl. ‘spelt; rice-wheat’ (cf. Akkad. allūru, i/ullūru, etc.).
6.2.14. *osp- ‘pulse, legumen’: Arm. ospn, an-stem ‘lentil’, Gr. ὄσπριον n. ‘pulse, legumen’.132
6.2.15. *pɁortȹo- or *(t)portȹo- ‘sprout, young twig’: Arm. ort‘, o­stem ‘vine’, Gr. πτόρθος m.
‘sprout, shoot, young twig’, πόρθος· πτόρθος, κλάδος, βλάστος (Hesychius).133
6.2.16. *kȹsan-t(e)r- ‘wool-carder, comb’: Arm. santr / sandr, ins.sg. santr-o-v (Łazar
P‘arpec‘i 3.61), abl.sg. i sandr-ē (Ephrem) ‘comb; weaver’s comb’, dial. sander-k‘ (Karin santr-ì-
k‘) ‘weaver’s large comb’;134 Gr. ξαίνω ‘to card, comb wool’, ξάντης m. ‘wool-carder’ξάντριαι
(title of a play by Aeschylus).135 In view of the incompatibility of the Armenian initial s- with
Greek *ks- in Indo-European terms, this comparison is considered to be uncertain.136 I assume
that we are dealing with a substrate word: *kȹsan-t(e)r- > Arm. sandr, pl. sander-k‘.
6.2.17. *si/ekȹu- ‘melon, gourd’: Arm. sex (gen. sexoy in Hexaemeron) ‘melon’, Gr. σικύα,
Ion. ­ύη f. ‘bottle-gourd, round gourd; gourd used as a calabash’, σέκουα ‘id.’ (Hesychius),
σίκυος, σικυός m., σίκυς f. ‘cucumber’, σίκυος πέπων ‘a kind of gourd or melon, not eaten till
quite ripe’. The relationship with Russ. týkva ‘pumpkin’ and Lat. cucumis ‘cucumber’ is unclear.
6.2.18. * eno-/* en(e) o-: Arm. sin, o­stem ‘empty’, Gr. Att. κενός and Ion. κεινός from
*κεν ός, Epic κενε( )ό, ‘empty, idle’.
6.2.19. *ste/oibo- or *ste/ibeh2: Arm. stēp, o­stem, a­stem ‘haste, alacrity; zeal, diligence; fre-
quent, frequently; hastily, quickly, stipem ‘to constrain, compel, force; to urge, hasten’; Gr.
στείβω ‘to tread (on something), densify by treading, trod, trample, trend’, στοιβή f. ‘stuffing,
cushion, bulge’, στίβος m. ‘trodden road, path, footstep, trail’. The appurtenance of OLith.
staibus ‘strong, brave’ and other cognates is uncertain.137
6.2.20. *srungȹ- ‘snout, nostrils’: Arm. ṙungn, mostly pl. ṙng-un-k‘, instr. ng-am-b-k‘,
*ṙung-k‘, a­stem ‘nostrils’; Gr. ῥύγχος, ῥύγχεος n. ‘snout (e.g. of a pig), muzzle, beak’.
6.2.21. *ps(e)ud-e/os-: Arm. sut, o­stem ‘false; falsehood, lie’, Gr. ψεῦδος n. ‘lie’, also ψύδος.
6.2.22. *skórp-i­, gen. *(s)k p-i-ós: Arm. k‘arb, i­stem ‘basilisk, asp’; Gr. σκορπίος m. ‘scor-
pion; a sea-fish’, σκορπίς, ­ίδος f. ‘a sea-fish’. These words have been claimed to be derived
from IE *(s)ker(­p)- ‘to cut’: Arm. k‘er-(t‘)­, k‘er-b/p‘- ‘to scratch, chop, carve’, Gr. κείρω ‘to cut
(off), shave, mow off, ravage’, OHG sceran ‘to cut’, OEngl. sceorfan ‘to scratch’, etc. However,
scholars are now more inclined towards a substrate origin.
 
There are also some substratic words in Armenian , Albanian and Greek

6.3. Armenian, Greek and Albanian.

6.3.1. *h2n(e/ōr) o- ‘dream’: Arm. anurǰ-k‘, i­stem, o­stem ‘dream, day-dream, prophetic vi-
sion, vision’; Gr. ὄνειρος m. ‘god of dreams, dream’, Aeol. ὄνοιρος m., Cret. ἄναιρον· ὄνειρον,
cf. ὄναρ n. ‘dream’, especially ‘fortune-telling dream, vision’, ἄναρ· ὄναρ (Hesychius); Alb.
âdërrë (Geg.), ëndërrë (Tosc.) ‘dream’ from *andërrë < *Hnr- o/ā­. Probably derived from PIE
*h2enh1­ ‘to breathe’ > ‘(vital) breath, energy’ (de Lamberterie 2012a).
6.3.2. *bȹe/or-(e)n- ‘load’: Arm. beṙn, gen. be in, ins. be am-b, vom.pl. be in-k‘ ‘burden, load;
bag, sack; freight, cargo’;138 Gr. φερνή f., Aeol. φέρενᾰ ‘dowry’, Dor. φερνά f. ‘god’s share at
the sacrifice’, Alb. bárrë ‘burden, load; freight, load; foetus’ < *bȹor-neh2; with a different mean-
ing: Lith. bérnas ‘boy, (farmer’s) servant’, Latv. bę̀rns ‘child, baby’; with o-grade: Goth. and OIc.
barn n. ‘child’ < “what was borne”.139 This word is a verbal noun from PIE *bȹer- ‘to bring, bear’.
...
6.3.3. *gȹrī(dȹ) ‘barley’: Arm. gari, ea­stem, o­stem ‘barley’; Gr. κριθ-ή f. ‘barley-corns’, usu-
ally pl. ‘barley’, from an original root noun *κρῑθ > Ep. κρῖ n.; Alb. drithë ‘cereals, wheat, bar-
ley’. A different formation: Lat. hordeum ‘barley’, OHG gersta ‘barley’, and Hitt. karaš n. ‘wheat,
emmer-wheat’.140
6.3.4. *sk(ȹ)odoro- or *sk(ȹ)orodo- ‘garlic’: Arm. xstor, i­stem and o­stem, sxtor ‘garlic’; Gr.
σκόρ(ο)δον n. ‘garlic’, Alb. húrdhë, also húdhër (Schriftsprache) f. ‘garlic’.
 
A lot more for Armenian, Greek and Latin.
He call this the Mediterranean or Mediterranean-Pontic substratum but whose origin is most probably in Asia Minor.

6.4. Armenian, Greek and Latin.

6.4.1. *bȹrug/ - ‘dewlap’: Arm. erbuc, o­stem ‘breast of animals’, Gr. φάρυγξ, gen. ­υγος,
­υγγος ‘throat; dewlap of a bull’, Lat. frūmen ‘throat’ < *frūg-smen.
6.4.2. *el(e/a)iw- vel sim. ‘olive, oil’: Arm. ewǻ, gen. iwǻ-oy, dial. *eǻ ‘oil’; Gr. ἐλαίᾱ, Att.
ἐλ α, Ion. ἐλαίη f. ‘olive-tree; olive’, ἔλαιος m. ‘wild olive’, ἔλαιον n. ‘olive-oil; anointing-oil;
any oily substance’; Lat. oleum n. ‘olive-oil; oil’.
6.4.3. *ptel- ‘elm’: Arm. t‘eǻi ‘elm’; Gr. πτελέ-α, Ion. ­η ‘elm, Ulmus glabra’; cf. also Lat.
tilia ‘linden’.
6.4.4. *tȹuōi o- or *tū(i) o- ‘fig’: Arm. t‘uz, o­stem ‘fig’, dial. (Aslanbek and Ozim) ‘female
genitals’; Gr. σῦκον, Boeotian τῦκον n. ‘fig; pudenda muliebria, female genitals’; Lat. fīcus, ī and
ūs, f. ‘fig; fig-tree’.
6.4.5. *h1ul(e/o)h1r-o- n.pl. *­h2 ‘rope, thong, rein’: Arm. lar, o­, i- and a­stems ‘rope, rein, ca-
ble, cord, string; plumbline of stone-masons; snare; tendons of the neck; string of a musical in-
strument’; Gr. εὔληρα, Dor. αὔληρα, Hesychian ἀβληρά n.pl. ‘reins’; Lat. lōrum, ­ī, n. ‘thong,
rawhide whip, rein’. We can reconstruct a Proto-Armenian paradigm *ulár-o­, pl. *ulár-a.
6.4.6. *g gt- ‘milk’: Arm. kat‘n, gen. kat‘in, instr. kat‘am-b ‘milk’, Gr. γάλα, γάλακτος n.
‘milk’, Lat. lac, lactis n. ‘milk’. The *­l- has been preserved in the Armenian dialects of Agulis
and Meǻri, where we find kaxc‘ pointing to *kaǻc‘ (the development a > Agulis has been
blocked in position before ǻ). Kak‘avaberd has kaxc‘ in the village of Varhavar vs. kát‘n in the
other three villages of the region. The conditions responsible for the loss or preservation of the
*­l- are not clear.141 Nevertheless, I do not think that this comparison should be abandoned.142
We are probably dealing with a cultural word of Mediterranean origin.
6.4.7. *mor- ‘blackberry’: Arm. mor, gen. mor-i ‘blackberry (fruit of the bramble)’, mor-(en)i
‘bramble, blackberry (plant, shrub)’, dial. mor-m-eni ‘blackberry’, mo(r)š(­i) ‘tamarisk; black-
berry, bramble’; Gr. μόρον n. ‘black mulberry; blackberry’, μορέα, ­έη f. ‘mulberry-tree, Morus
nigra’; Lat. mōrum, ī, n. ‘fruit of the black mulberry’, mōrus, ī, f. ‘black mulberry-tree’ (some-
times considered a Greek loanword).143
6.4.8. *mor-m- ‘she-monster, spinning demon/goddess’: MidArm. and dial. mor-m and
mor(i) ‘spider, tarantula, phalangium’; Gr. Μορμώ, ­όος ­οῦς, Μορμώv, ­όνος f. ‘she-monster,
bogey’ (also used by nurses to frighten children), generally ‘bugbear’, Lat. formīdō, inis f. ‘fear,
terror; a thing which frightens, bogey’. (HM)
The Greek and Latin words are related, either etymologically or secondarily, with the
word for ‘ant’, cf. Lat. formīca f. ‘ant’, Gr. μύρμηξ, ­ηκος, Dor. μύρμᾱξ, ­ᾱκος m. ‘ant; fabulous
animal in India’ (by-forms: μύρμος, βύρμαξ, βόρμαξ, ὅρμικας), etc. This connection or confla-
tion becomes quite transparent in view of the following forms and meanings: μυρμήκ-ειον n. a
species of φαλάγγιον, the latter being ‘a kind of venomous spider, especially Lathrodectus or
malmignatte’, μυρμήκ-ιον n. ‘a species of spider’. Note also μόρμορος and μύρμος ‘panic fear’
(glossed by φόβος in Hesychius), the former of which strikingly resembles Armenian dialect of
Polis/Stambul *mo mo oz, Crimea and Nor Naxiǰewan *m m as ‘Easter bogey’.
...
6.4.9. *spȹongos / *pȹsongos ‘sponge, mushroom’: Arm. sunk/gn ‘(tree­)mushroom’, Gr.
σπόγγος, σφόγγος m. ‘sponge; any spongy substance, e.g. tonsils’, Lat. fungus m. ‘fungus,
mushroom’.



There are also some common substratic words in Armenian, Greek one side and Germanic, Celtic and Balto-Slavic on ther other side but it is not relevant to this thread so a person interested can read here
https://www.academia.edu/4197641/Th..._the_relationship_with_Greek_and_Indo-Iranian
 
Unfortunately he don't give common Armenian Iranian words from substratic origin. I bet if they exist ( i think they exist ) they would be related to Hurrian. Also some Greco-Armenian substratic words could have a Hurrian origin.
 
re: nigrum

Hey guys -

I'm glad you mention "nigrum" (niger) as one of the Latin words of possible non-PIE origin (although I've seen it listed in one place as possibly descending from PIE nekw-t).

I'm having this horrible internet battle with a deluded Afrocentrist about his theory that the Latin word "niger" came from Africa..from the name word that birthed the name for the Niger River (Berber "n-gher" or Tuareg "n-egerew" meaning river or watercourse). He somehow "deduces" that because the river had that name, and people from the Niger River region were black, that Classical Latin "picked up" a new word for black (niger) other than the terms that Latin already had (such as 'ater'). I've basically proved him wrong ..but it was still rather annoying.

And so I'd be interested to know if there are any good theories about where Latin "nigrum" came from if not
from PIE. Are there other Italic cognates (like in Oscan or Umbrian). Did it come from Etruscan or Vasconic?
I can't find anything online (other than the vague 'nekw-t' reference), but I really want to put the final nail
in the coffin of this Afrocentric guy's theory.

Let me know at my e-mail address aestheticparlour at gmail dot com if you have any ideas. thanks!
 
digamma was "w"

No, you're wrong. the original sound of Beta was /b/. Had it already been /v/ at that time, the Lemnians would have used the letter Beta to transliterate the Tyrsenian /v/:

"αβις" instead of "αϝις"

Since this isn't the case, it is pretty clear that Greek Beta was pronounced as /b/ by the time that the Lemnos stelae was produced (6th century BC). The development we see in Greek is *gw > *b > *v, and in my opinion the development of *b > *v did not occur until after the Hellenistic period.

Wow, guys - I'm amazed that Yetos is sticking it out this long with his lack of understanding ancient Greek.
Even I know that the importance of the Lemnos stele lies in its similarity to Etruscan (awis = avils) in establishing some kind of tentative Tyrsenian pre-IE language group.
And I also know that digamma had the sound value of "w" because it came directly from Phoenician waw.
There's no "v" involved anywhere - it's definitely pronounced "awis". And Taranis..I have to admit that I don't
know if Latin had an original "v" sound but I'm used to hearing that Latin "v" was pronounced "w". So Etruscan avils was probably also pronounced "awils". Right? Anyway, of course languages change, that's a given.

If anyone has any insight into the "niger" origin thing, let me know!
 
...
...
- xanthos : Greek word for yellow, no cognate in IE

- The Greek for "thousand" (kilo or khilias) as well as the Latin one (mille) are unrelated to the PIE root *tuh(a)s-kmtyos found in all Germanic and Balto-Slavic languages.

Mille looks like it may have a cognate in Irish, as in céad míle fáilte (hundred thousand welcomes). That same phrase also clearly has a cognate for "centum" (cf. English "hundred" via Grimm's Law).

Could xanthos be related to andros (man) or anthos (flower)? Both of those things are often yellow or yellowish.
 
Many linguistic interpretations are either ideological or mere "καλαμπούρια"
Hard work is still necessary (and require team work)
1. to group and classify all spelling "errors" by region (North Greece, Magna Grecia, Islands, Cyprus etc) and centuries from the 4BC to 3nd AD. Some times, even Latin can help to determine the pronunciation sounds, e.g. Egéon, Egyptos, etc, etc were never a-i. Please also review the names of the cities of Sicilia and Magna Grecia.
2. Please accept the fact that Greeks were not alone in this world. On the edge of the "hellenic settlements" sounds like the βήτα, the B V sounds; are still mildly confused in Castillan and Catalan (bolivar or volivar, Habana or Havana). On the other geographic end, in Persian and Kurdish there are similar intermediate sounds for αι / ε / ë:
There are also interesting phonetic variations in contemporary Greek dialects to classify.

3. Everybody speaks and studies the κοινή of the Septante, most certainly Christianity does (kyrie eléison..); but important writers Pausanias, Nonnos (!!), Plutarch, Arrianos, Athinaios, etc, etc, were not writing in the κοινή..... Why ?

And finally how many Greek words and roots are not obviously indo-european, and in what semantic fields we find the majority of non-IE "etymologists" ....

All the best to all of you for this stimulating thread
 
Interesting

lets compare with a Food Mandrax
the famous plant Aristotle describe as Mandragora :?

Modern Greek μασαω (I chew) masao
μασαμπουκα masabuka means good food to eat a lot comparing Brygian Bekos = baked, Bread

Both Greek and Italian(Latin) words derive from Albanian meaning : to eat

The verb in Albanian for eat=ha or simply 'a'. The infinitive is 'te hash'(tosk) or 'me anger'(geg)
me ash buke= to eat bread =masabuka
buke(indefinite)=buka(definite)

Although it is modern Greek,
But there I can't find alternate for chew in Greek
so probably mangare means to chew and in Italian become to eat?

mangare is a composite of the Albanian meaning: me (h)anger=to eat, and is formed in this way:
the verb ha=eat is pronounced 'a' by a common Albanian
me anger=infinitive =to eat
meanger after the vowel treatment reduces the diphthong ea-->a
meanger-->mangar-e

Simply like this, there is no unknown origin. The origin is Albanian language.
 
There have to be Latin words coming from non-IE sources, but manducare is not a good example. The relationship with the roots mentioned for "chewing" (mando) is clear via the character of Manducus, the glutton, represented with the mask of someone chewing. And I don't see it unlikely at all to relate mand- with *mad-, given that in other languages the meaning derived are also related to chewing, eating, drinking or food.

The explanation above is valid for 'manducare' too:

The verb 'nduk' in Albanian =chew.
The infinitive 'me nduk'=to chew
The composite me nduk=menduk---> manduc-are(Italian suffix)
Simply like this.
 
I have explained in Revising the classification of Indo-European languages that Latin and Greek are probably hybrid languages with two major components: one Indo-European, and the other from an unknown West Asian language (probably long extinct). There may also be older Neolithic loanwords.

It is evidently hard to identify words from an unknown extinct language, so the best way to proceed to to sieve the words that cannot be ascertain as Indo-European. This includes all the roots of unknown or uncertain origin.

I will start by listing Latin words with their Italian and French derivatives, and show the lack of resemble to the Proto-Indo-European root.

Latin (French, Italian) >< PIE root

- largus (large, largo), unrelated to the PIE *megha or *mehro

Greek words


- mythos : "speech, thought, story, myth," of unknown origin.

And again, these words are clearly deriving from Albanian lexicon
I will start with the "Greek" word 'mythos'
Like in the examples above, the infinitive of Albanian verbs is like this:
me + verb
me+the/o=to tell(a story, to tell a story to smo else)
the composite "metho" is transformed to "myth-os" in "Greek", but is simply a transformation of a composite Albanian semantics

Meanwhile the Latin 'larg-us' is a neologism(back in time) into this language and its meaning is borrowed from Albanian larg=far. This is because the large objects in nature extend themselves far away, ex. the sea, the mountain, the sky etc.

Keep in mind, both Greek(Eastern Roman) and Latin(Western Roman), are both cultivated languages, they usually borrow ready terminology to create one of their own, and usually do this from vernacular adjacent language, like Albanian as their main furnisher.
 
And again, these words are clearly deriving from Albanian lexicon
I will start with the "Greek" word 'mythos'
Like in the examples above, the infinitive of Albanian verbs is like this:
me + verb
me+the/o=to tell(a story, to tell a story to smo else)
the composite "metho" is transformed to "myth-os" in "Greek", but is simply a transformation of a composite Albanian semantics

Meanwhile the Latin 'larg-us' is a neologism(back in time) into this language and its meaning is borrowed from Albanian larg=far. This is because the large objects in nature extend themselves far away, ex. the sea, the mountain, the sky etc.

Keep in mind, both Greek(Eastern Roman) and Latin(Western Roman), are both cultivated languages, they usually borrow ready terminology to create one of their own, and usually do this from vernacular adjacent language, like Albanian as their main furnisher.

Ok, but that doesn't prove that they are ultimately of IE origin since they don't correlate in other IE languages and Albanian is itself a heavily hybridised IE language.
 
Ok, but that doesn't prove that they are ultimately of IE origin since they don't correlate in other IE languages and Albanian is itself a heavily hybridised IE language.

I have a different approach toward the IE and PIE language theory. I strongly believe this theory is not correct, and there is not a PIE roots set, where the lexicon of all so called IE languages emerge off.
I believe that every word in a language, is been created based on a elementary brick:

1. the primitive syllables c-v(consonant +vowel) or further more c-v-c, which carry a basic meaning
2. imitating the sound in nature, like in the onomatopoeic words

1. example. le-ave(Engl)--la-sciare(Italian)--le(Alb), the root l+e(consonant+vowel=bone +meat) carries a primitive meaning : to le-t it go(leave)[notice the word le-t]
2. example (a) grind(Eng)---egriser(french)---grij(Alb) "borrow" the cluster 'gr' from the sound of grinding grr....
(b) crush(Eng)---ecraser(Fre), scrivere(It)---shkruaj(Alb) and so on & so forth

Now, there is no PIE language, we all know that the Church Languages, like Latin originated all the so called neo-latin and semi-latin languages including English. A branch of the same Church, originated the Slavic language-s(Old Church Slavonic) and Eastern Roman Church originated the Greek language. Altogether they comprise over 95 % of Europe languages, and that's why they have similarities. Albanian is an exception, although the Albanian word roots, are exactly the same like the above languages, Albanian was/is an ethnic language for a very long time, and was not orignated inside a religious institution, like its sister-languages of the same family, and this make it a special language, because is closer to the original common language, compared to the other cultivated languages, like Greek, Latin/s or Slavic language.
The term 'hybridised" in your post, describing Albanian language nature, is based on wrong premises (the PIE/IE theory).
 
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And again, these words are clearly deriving from Albanian lexicon
I will start with the "Greek" word 'mythos'
Like in the examples above, the infinitive of Albanian verbs is like this:
me + verb
me+the/o=to tell(a story, to tell a story to smo else)
the composite "metho" is transformed to "myth-os" in "Greek", but is simply a transformation of a composite Albanian semantics

Meanwhile the Latin 'larg-us' is a neologism(back in time) into this language and its meaning is borrowed from Albanian larg=far. This is because the large objects in nature extend themselves far away, ex. the sea, the mountain, the sky etc.

Keep in mind, both Greek(Eastern Roman) and Latin(Western Roman), are both cultivated languages, they usually borrow ready terminology to create one of their own, and usually do this from vernacular adjacent language, like Albanian as their main furnisher.
Have I seen this film before?

I do not know if Albanian me+the means something,
or about you propose after few posts after the one i quote

But I am certain that the Word Mythos Μυθος
is one of the most pure and clear examples and proves of IE languages,

why

for 2 reasons

1, it clear foolows one the major rule aspiration d (dh) to θ (th)
2. it has the simmilar complex with the IE world Keklos e->υ κυκλος Μυθος

MYTHOS the root of the IE word is *mēwdʰ which for many Linguists is not even IE but early-Proto-Greek before the d turn to θ and
as the word keklos-Kυklos is u not e

cause the same also gives words like Μουσα Μουσικη Μουσειο clear Greek words
Musa Music Museum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muses

you see all the bellow are connected with same root
Mythos
Musa
Music
Museum
etc
even
Μογγος
εγγαστριμυθος


If the root of Mythos was Albanian me+the
wouldn't be word Music in Albanian be Methe-ic and in All other languages the same?
IS IT?
 
Have I seen this film before?

I do not know if Albanian me+the means something,
or about you propose after few posts after the one i quote

But I am certain that the Word Mythos Μυθος
is one of the most pure and clear examples and proves of IE languages,

why

for 2 reasons

1, it clear foolows one the major rule aspiration d (dh) to θ (th)
2. it has the simmilar complex with the IE world Keklos e->υ κυκλος Μυθος

MYTHOS the root of the IE word is *mēwdʰ which for many Linguists is not even IE but early-Proto-Greek before the d turn to θ and
as the word keklos-Kυklos is u not e

cause the same also gives words like Μουσα Μουσικη Μουσειο clear Greek words
Musa Music Museum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muses

you see all the bellow are connected with same root
Mythos
Musa
Music
Museum
etc
even
Μογγος
εγγαστριμυθος


If the root of Mythos was Albanian me+the
wouldn't be word Music in Albanian be Methe-ic and in All other languages the same?
IS IT?

I don't know what film had you seen before, and as usually I can't comprehend your posting, but can you explain what Μοῦσαι has to do with mythos and how are these words related?
 
I have explained in Revising the classification of Indo-European languages that Latin and Greek are probably hybrid languages with two major components: one Indo-European, and the other from an unknown West Asian language (probably long extinct). There may also be older Neolithic loanwords.

It is evidently hard to identify words from an unknown extinct language, so the best way to proceed to to sieve the words that cannot be ascertain as Indo-European. This includes all the roots of unknown or uncertain origin.

I will start by listing Latin words with their Italian and French derivatives, and show the lack of resemble to the Proto-Indo-European root.

Latin (French, Italian) >< PIE root

- manducare (manger, mangiare) >< *ed-

EDIT : here are more words

- amygdala/amandula (amande, mandorla), from Greek amygdalos but not found in other IE languages

- autumnus (automne, autunno), of unknown origin, possibly from Etruscan.

- bestia (bête, bestia)

- coda (queue, coda), unrelated to the PIE *puk(eha) or *wolos

- elementem (element, elemento)

- cylindrus (cylindre, cilindro) only related to Greek kylindros

- famulus : Latin word for servant from which "family" is derived. Unrelated to the PIE roots *genhes or *wik

- farcire (farcire, farcire)

- finis (fin, fine), unrelated to the PIE root *termn-

- honorem (honeur, onore), not found in other IE languages

- largus (large, largo), unrelated to the PIE *megha or *mehro

- male/malus (mal, male), not related to PIE *ghalh(x)ros nor *hedwol

- metallum (métal, metallo), from Greek metallon, but differs from PIE word *h(a)eyes

- miser (misère, misera), no similarity with other IE languages

- (s)mittere : Latin word meaning "to send" used as a root for many words (transmit, emit, permit, etc.). No IE cognate.

- nigrum (noir, nero), unrelated to the PIE *k(w)rsnos, *mel-n or *keir

- oceanus (ocean, oceano), from Greek oceanos, but no cognates in other IE

- ochra (ocre, ocra), from Greek ochra, but no cognates in other IE

- phrasis (phrase, frase), from Greek phrasis (speech, way of speaking), but doesn't cognate with any IE word

- populus (peuple, popolo), no cognate in other IE languages. Possibly from Etruscan.

- purpura (pourpre, purpureo), from Greek porphyra which is of Semitic origin

- radius (rayon, raggio/radio)

- sanguis (sang, sangue), unrelated to the PIE *bhlo-to

- silens (silence, silenzio), doesn't appear to be IE

- sphæra (sphère, sfera) from Greek sphaira (globe, ball), of unknown origin.

- totus/totalis (total, totale), no IE cognate

- verdis (vert, verde), unrelated to the PIE *ker-, *kr-wos or *modheros, or to the PIE base *ghre- ("grow", from which the Germanic green derives)

- volare (voler, volare), unrelated to the PIE *dih- or *pet-


Greek words

- auto- : prefix meaning "self", doesn't cognate in other IE languages

- mythos : "speech, thought, story, myth," of unknown origin.

- elektron : Greek word for amber, no cognate in IE

- xanthos : Greek word for yellow, no cognate in IE

- The Greek for "thousand" (kilo or khilias) as well as the Latin one (mille) are unrelated to the PIE root *tuh(a)s-kmtyos found in all Germanic and Balto-Slavic languages.


Few suggestions that might help

-bestia / Alb . bisha (beast)
-fin / Alb . fund(finish)

-oceanus / Gr . okeano(ocean), also kyano(blue) / Alb . oqean and qiell ( sky )


-ochra / Alb . Okër


-phrasis / Gr . phrasis ( speech,way of speaking ) / Alb . thërras ( call,summon )


-populus / Alb . POpull cognates with POlis ?


-radius / Alb . Rreth (circle), Rrethoj , also Radhë (row)


-totus/totalis / Alb . total


-verdis / Alb . verdhë (yellow)



Greek words

-auto : from 'αυς' and 'ατα' .Doric / Alb . ai (he,him) ata (they,them)


 
I have explained in Revising the classification of Indo-European languages that Latin and Greek are probably hybrid languages with two major components: one Indo-European, and the other from an unknown West Asian language (probably long extinct). There may also be older Neolithic loanwords.

It is evidently hard to identify words from an unknown extinct language, so the best way to proceed to to sieve the words that cannot be ascertain as Indo-European. This includes all the roots of unknown or uncertain origin.

I will start by listing Latin words with their Italian and French derivatives, and show the lack of resemble to the Proto-Indo-European root.

Latin (French, Italian) >< PIE root



- honorem (honeur, onore), not found in other IE languages.

Yes you can. In Albanian "o ner" (geg) or "eshte nder" (tosk) means : it is a honour
The very word ner(geg) or nder(tosk) derives from the verb: niej(geg) or ndiej(tosk)=to feel(in this case a positive emotion)
So the Latin 'onore' is in fact an adjacent expression, one of the many that Latin borrowed from Albanian, similar to νενικήκαμεν=ne niq kam-en(We have won= we have expelled [the enemy])
 
I don't know what film had you seen before, and as usually I can't comprehend your posting, but can you explain what Μοῦσαι has to do with mythos and how are these words related?

I already did.

either IE mewdh

eiteher clear proto Greek mudh and Greek muth.
like proto-Greek Διας Dias and Greek Θεος ( D->Θ, α clear IE aspiration rule)

cause maybe Latin and Greek were church language

but we find the same word even in English like me-ntion.
although in Germanic seem m turn to n
newd noend nenn etc

maybe for you Albanian was mother of Latin and Greek, (I doupt though)
but was it in Germanic also? or Slavic? etc etc ?
non church languages?

same phoneental we find with IE keklos
in Greek Kuklos e->u

as for the sound of υ in Greek
αγελας μυκαται u= short ou ou = long u
(the cow makes μυ sound)

as for the case the word to be a proto-form of Greek
ntice the speachless mute muto, Greek Μο-γγος Μου-γγος
so same with IE Keklos or proto-Greek Koklos in circle Κυκλος
the IE root mewdh or the proto-Greek Mowdh muwdh
 
I already did.

either IE mewdh

eiteher clear proto Greek mudh and Greek muth.
like proto-Greek Διας Dias and Greek Θεος ( D->Θ, α clear IE aspiration rule)

cause maybe Latin and Greek were church language

but we find the same word even in English like me-ntion.
although in Germanic seem m turn to n
newd noend nenn etc

maybe for you Albanian was mother of Latin and Greek, (I doupt though)
but was it in Germanic also? or Slavic? etc etc ?
non church languages?

same phoneental we find with IE keklos
in Greek Kuklos e->u

as for the sound of υ in Greek
αγελας μυκαται u= short ou ou = long u
(the cow makes μυ sound)

as for the case the word to be a proto-form of Greek
ntice the speachless mute muto, Greek Μο-γγος Μου-γγος
so same with IE Keklos or proto-Greek Koklos in circle Κυκλος
the IE root mewdh or the proto-Greek Mowdh muwdh


Zέυς & Deus > Theos

Ζεύνυσος , Ζώνυσος & Δεύνυσος , Διόνυσος

Ζ,ζ = dz

Probably DIAS (dhia=goat) is a term to refer to the sacred symbol of Pagan ''religion'', which was always depicted as half-goat half-human like Pan , Baphomet etc, and was demonized from Orthodox church beginning of 11th century.


upload image on internet
 

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