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Thread: Napoleon I belonged to haplogroup E1b1b1c1* (E-M34)

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    Interesting that he belonged to the Natufian subclade. I wonder Hitler's subclade was it E-V13 or some other E-M35.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    Interesting that he belonged to the Natufian subclade. I wonder Hitler's subclade was it E-V13 or some other E-M35.

    most of 9% e1b1b1 in austria is e-v13
    so i bet on e-v13 for hittler ....

    e-m34 is not natuffian
    the natuffian is the upstream clade e-z830
    but e-m34 was found in neolithic ppnb site in jordan
    so it looks very levantine
    ....
    but you see that napoleon branch E-PH3893 aquired many mutations to end in his branch
    (Z841, L791, Y4971, Y4976, Y4970 and PH3893) under M34
    might be that many of the e-m34 in italy will end on his specific branch ...

    p.s
    if i am not wrong they did found e-m123 in tuscany 5-6% in arezzo so it is not completely
    out of the blue in tuscany
    known ancestery:
    sefhardi / aschenazi/ mizrahi / bulgarian
    direct paternal line back to damascus
    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Lebanese_Muslim + Lebanese_Muslim + Serbian + Tuscan @ 1.234402

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    most of 9% e1b1b1 in austria is e-v13
    so i bet on e-v13 for hittler ....

    e-m34 is not natuffian
    the natuffian is the upstream clade e-z830
    but e-m34 was found in neolithic ppnb site in jordan
    so it looks very levantine
    ....
    but you see that napoleon branch E-PH3893 aquired many mutations to end in his branch
    (Z841, L791, Y4971, Y4976, Y4970 and PH3893) under M34
    might be that many of the e-m34 in italy will end on his specific branch ...

    p.s
    if i am not wrong they did found e-m123 in tuscany 5-6% in arezzo so it is not completely
    out of the blue in tuscany
    Did I misunderstand the paper? I thought they followed the mutation trail up and through Anatolia/Armenia and west?


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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    if i am not wrong they did found e-m123 in tuscany 5-6% in arezzo so it is not completely
    out of the blue in tuscany
    The data comes from Julie Di Cristofaro's French study of the Corsicans? It's a study full of errors, pure amateurism. In any case there is no academic modern sample from Arezzo, there is one from the province of Arezzo that is from the Casentino, an isolated area in Tuscany on the border with Umbria and Marche that was included during the Augustan age in the Regio VI Umbria and that some agenda-driven Italian geneticist like Piazza used to speculate on the Etruscans. But, apart from the fact that E-M123 at low percentages has now been found everywhere in Italy and even in Sardinia and Veneto, E-M123 is thought to have a TMRCA about 18,000 years ago, it is too old to think it is due to movements only from the Iron Age, and Napoleon Bonaparte's male line is indeed native from Lunigiana, where living people on the La Spezia side with his clade still exist today, likely related to him. And Lunigiana has no relation to the Casentino, because geographically distant. The only relation concerns the legends according to which the Casentino was inhabited by Ligurian tribes in the past, like the Lunigiana. But archaeology has never found any evidence of this.

    2013 Map

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    The data comes from Julie Di Cristofaro's French study of the Corsicans? It's a study full of errors, pure amateurism. In any case there is no academic modern sample from Arezzo, there is one from the province of Arezzo that is from the Casentino, an isolated area in Tuscany on the border with Umbria and Marche that was included during the Augustan age in the Regio VI Umbria and that some agenda-driven Italian geneticist like Piazza used to speculate on the Etruscans. But, apart from the fact that E-M123 at low percentages has now been found everywhere in Italy and even in Sardinia and Veneto, E-M123 is thought to have a TMRCA about 18,000 years ago, it is too old to think it is due to movements only from the Iron Age, and Napoleon Bonaparte's male line is indeed native from Lunigiana, where living people on the La Spezia side with his clade still exist today, likely related to him. And Lunigiana has no relation to the Casentino, because geographically distant. The only relation concerns the legends according to which the Casentino was inhabited by Ligurian tribes in the past, like the Lunigiana. But archaeology has never found any evidence of this.

    2013 Map
    yes so it is a bad research
    thanks for clarify that it is from casentino and not 5-6% like the corsican paper said
    good that i said : "if i am not wrong" because i wasn't sure
    i agree with you that e-m123 is damn old
    so who knows how it ends in italy

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    yes so it is a bad research
    thanks for clarify that it is from casentino and not 5-6% like the corsican paper said
    good that i said : "if i am not wrong" because i wasn't sure
    i agree with you that e-m123 is damn old
    so who knows how it ends in italy
    We already discussed this paper on the Corsicans when it came out. After that discussion I reread it several times and found many other errors. A tremendous error on the R1bs from Pisa (which is actually the usual sample from Volterra that is in the province of Pisa), this study states that all are R1b-L23 when in fact most of these R1bs from Volterra are dowstream and go up to R1b-U152, as shown by more recent papers that analyzed the same sample. A very big mistake. I'm not telling you that in the sample of the Casentino E-M123 doesn't exist, I'm telling you that it can't be this study that tells you exactly how many there are. And anyway the main problem remains, E-M123 is indeed damn old, how can all E-M123 have arrived in the last 2500/3000 years when it was born 18,000 years ago?

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...n-Y-chromosome

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    the last one is a descendant of Agostino Del Turco from Mosciano Sant'Angelo, province of Teramo, Abruzzo, so on the Adriatic coast.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    the last one is a descendant of Agostino Del Turco from Mosciano Sant'Angelo, province of Teramo, Abruzzo, so on the Adriatic coast.


    very cool
    Del -turco is in yfull with an albanian
    ( and i know e-m123 is rare 1-2% in albania)
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y49685/
    so he is very interesting case
    Last edited by kingjohn; 14-08-20 at 23:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    The american bonaparte line������
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char...seph_Bonaparte
    The one quarter Corsican genes were already washed out. :)

    Napoleon was furious when Jerome left for America to strike out on his own. He liked putting his siblings on European thrones for support.

    If you can't trust your family....well, he couldn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The one quarter Corsican genes were already washed out. :)
    Napoleon was furious when Jerome left for America to strike out on his own. He liked putting his siblings on European thrones for support.
    If you can't trust your family....well, he couldn't.
    Yes got irish american genes instead
    I am no expert in anthropology
    But he looked alpine type
    Last edited by kingjohn; 25-08-20 at 21:23.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I am Del Turco and those are my markers at E-Y49685. As I am not an expert in this field can you tell me anything about my genetics? I noticed it was referenced above. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turksteelman View Post
    I am Del Turco and those are my markers at E-Y49685. As I am not an expert in this field can you tell me anything about my genetics? I noticed it was referenced above. Thanks
    hello
    you need to ask farroukh from e3b haplozone and anthrogenica
    he is truly expert in e3b
    all i know is that e-L791 look like the european branch of e-m34 ( with russia, sardinia , france representatives ).....
    while my branch e-m84 more in arabia ( with extension to south italy and iberia )
    all i know is that your branch E-Y49685 is interesting
    with this albanian maybe a balkan conection who knows ...
    there is a paper coming soon on roman dna from serbia
    1 individual is e-m123
    he might be e-L791 branch
    like you ( we should wait)
    that is all i know
    regards
    adam

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    very cool
    Del -turco is in yfull with an albanian
    ( and i know e-m123 is rare 1-2% in albania)
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y49685/
    so he is very interesting case

    Consider that in Italy surnames like Del Turco (and all its derivatives) that recall the ethnic name of the Turks have more possible explanations. For example in Italy with Turks were also called all the Balkan populations that had ended up under Turkish domination and sought refuge in Italy or who were not Christian. To make you understand better, in the Italian registers there are examples of people coming from Dalmatia (today a region of Croatia) who were called "Turks".

    But at the same time in some of these Italian surnames which today refer to the ethnic name of the Turks may derive from nicknames, "behaving like a Turk", "having fought against the Turks" and so on.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Thanks so much for the insight. Stepped away for a year and am trying to get caught up on any new developments.

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    I know Farroukh well. It's been awhile since I talked with him. Thanks for redirecting me back to him. Its been awhile.

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    The habit of naming someone for the people he or she fought goes back to the Roman Era, i.e. Scipio Africanus.

    As a result of the name and the fact that a bust of him was carved from dark stone it was proffered that ancient Romans had a lot of African in them. You really can't make up some of this stuff.


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    Hello,
    I am the Albanian, (E-Y49685), the "relative" of Del Turco. I think than my ancestors moved to that part of the Balkans, where Albania is today, around 1000 years ago. My hypothesis is that they were sent there by Byzantium to spread the Christianity among Bulgarians, Albanians, Vlachs that populated
    the area at that time. Also, I believe that my ancestors were fully Hellenized/Christianized when moved there. The village of my ancestors is located very close to Greece and Northern Macedonia. I have another "relative", (Based on FamilytreeDNA / Big Y, I and him, belong to the haplogroup E-BY55818), that states that he is an ethnic Macedonian, but he is born in Northern Greece, not far from the village from where my roots are.
    Also, the 23andMe shows that I have plenty "relatives" in Peloponnese, Greece.
    I have very limited knowledge about the DNA science ... I hope this helps a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenis View Post
    Hello,
    I am the Albanian, (E-Y49685), the "relative" of Del Turco. I think than my ancestors moved to that part of the Balkans, where Albania is today, around 1000 years ago. My hypothesis is that they were sent there by Byzantium to spread the Christianity among Bulgarians, Albanians, Vlachs that populated
    the area at that time. Also, I believe that my ancestors were fully Hellenized/Christianized when moved there. The village of my ancestors is located very close to Greece and Northern Macedonia. I have another "relative", (Based on FamilytreeDNA / Big Y, I and him, belong to the haplogroup E-BY55818), that states that he is an ethnic Macedonian, but he is born in Northern Greece, not far from the village from where my roots are.
    Also, the 23andMe shows that I have plenty "relatives" in Peloponnese, Greece.
    I have very limited knowledge about the DNA science ... I hope this helps a bit.
    Full albanians that have no ancestry from peloponnese also get matches in peloponesse because of big medieval Arvanite migration specifically to that site. Some historians put Arvanite percentage as far as 50% even.

    I only say this so that you don't make immediately the assumption of origin from there.

    Do you have an Albanian surname? I would hesitate from constructing such narratives until further down the line.

    Albanians were already christians a 1000 years ago lol.
    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenis View Post
    Hello,
    I am the Albanian, (E-Y49685), the "relative" of Del Turco. I think than my ancestors moved to that part of the Balkans, where Albania is today, around 1000 years ago. My hypothesis is that they were sent there by Byzantium to spread the Christianity among Bulgarians, Albanians, Vlachs that populated
    the area at that time. Also, I believe that my ancestors were fully Hellenized/Christianized when moved there. The village of my ancestors is located very close to Greece and Northern Macedonia. I have another "relative", (Based on FamilytreeDNA / Big Y, I and him, belong to the haplogroup E-BY55818), that states that he is an ethnic Macedonian, but he is born in Northern Greece, not far from the village from where my roots are.
    Also, the 23andMe shows that I have plenty "relatives" in Peloponnese, Greece.
    I have very limited knowledge about the DNA science ... I hope this helps a bit.

    that helps thanks for all this information
    could be an armenian byzantine connection
    armenians were crucial in byzantine army
    and some of the byzantine emperors had armenian ancestery

    http://www.attalus.org/armenian/char1.htm


    http://byzantinemilitary.blogspot.co...byzantine.html


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rmenian_origin
    Last edited by kingjohn; 10-09-20 at 15:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenis View Post
    Hello,
    I am the Albanian, (E-Y49685), the "relative" of Del Turco. I think than my ancestors moved to that part of the Balkans, where Albania is today, around 1000 years ago. My hypothesis is that they were sent there by Byzantium to spread the Christianity among Bulgarians, Albanians, Vlachs that populated
    the area at that time. Also, I believe that my ancestors were fully Hellenized/Christianized when moved there. The village of my ancestors is located very close to Greece and Northern Macedonia. I have another "relative", (Based on FamilytreeDNA / Big Y, I and him, belong to the haplogroup E-BY55818), that states that he is an ethnic Macedonian, but he is born in Northern Greece, not far from the village from where my roots are.
    Also, the 23andMe shows that I have plenty "relatives" in Peloponnese, Greece.
    I have very limited knowledge about the DNA science ... I hope this helps a bit.
    Hi Diogenis,
    I am the Italian (E-Y49685), the relative of Diogenis. From what I can tell, my ancestors originated in the Armenian/Turkey area and then migrated to Italy then to USA in 1905. My earliest descendant that I can locate is from Mosciano Sant Angelo Italy in 1725. It is exciting having someone on the tree that I match with. If you find anything out about our heritage please let me know. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turksteelman View Post
    Hi Diogenis,
    I am the Italian (E-Y49685), the relative of Diogenis. From what I can tell, my ancestors originated in the Armenian/Turkey area and then migrated to Italy then to USA in 1905. My earliest descendant that I can locate is from Mosciano Sant Angelo Italy in 1725. It is exciting having someone on the tree that I match with. If you find anything out about our heritage please let me know. Thanks
    How do you know that your ancestors originated in the Armenian/Turkey area? It cannot be based on the surname, because as I have already explained, there are more possible explanations, and in Italy also the Balkan people at some point were called Turks.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    that helps thanks for all this information
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post

    could be an armenian byzantine connection
    armenians were crucial in byzantine army
    and some of the byzantine emperors had armenian ancestery

    http://www.attalus.org/armenian/char1.htm


    http://byzantinemilitary.blogspot.co...byzantine.html


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rmenian_origin



    It is possible, but since the user originally from Abruzzo carries as surname Del Turco, and surnames were formed long after the Roman era, if it comes to migration is most likely a much more recent migration due to the expansion of the Ottoman Turks in the Balkans, then how E-Y49685 arrived in the Balkans is another story.

  24. #49
    Junior Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    11-02-19
    Posts
    2
    Points
    1,240
    Level
    9
    Points: 1,240, Level: 9
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-BY55818
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b1e1e

    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: Canada



    Hello Pax Augusta,
    I am the Albanian, E-Y49685, the ancient "relative" of Del Turco.

    I believe that Armenia, or Levante, are the most possible areas where the E-L791 //// E-Y49685 (E-BY55818) was "created". All the DNA tests that I have taken point towards that direction ... The Yfull results show strong evidence, too.
    Any other suggestions you may have is highly appreciated.

    Best regards.

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