Veneti / Venedi / Wends (OFFTOPIC Y-DNA Haplogroups R1b-U152/S28)

He was originally mechanical Engineer, later he studied linguistics ;)
 
Well... say that again...

This is the comparision between Slovene, Sanskrit, Egyptian and several other languages. You can still find several similarities. It seems that world was once much more "connected" than it is thought among the "linguistss"...
Translations

Sanskrit - Slovene Egyptian - Slovene
+harši+ - kruh =kšr= - kruh
+uni+ - oni, tisti (3. os edn) =na= - tisto, ono

*pištaka* - piškot, potica =pAt, pat= - potica, pecivo
*šrA* - cvreti =ašr= - cvretje
*biš* - bežati =bha= - beg
*duhitr* - hčer =hrdt= - hčer, otroci
*bubura* - voda (brbotanje) =babat= - izvir, jbr - potoček (žuborenje)
*muš* - muha =mht= - mušica
*mastu* - surovo maslo =mrht= - mast
*astha, šukti* - kost =ks= - kost
*kaš* - kašelj =khkht= - kašelj
*krna* - krma =hmw= - krma
*karman* - delo (garanje) =hmwj= - delo
*jabh*- spolnost =jb= - srce, ljubezen
*dru* - drveti =trr= - dirka
*tamas* - tema =tnmw= - tema
*sitja* - žito =swt= - žito
*tana* - nit =nd= - nit
*svastika* - zvezda =sħdw= - zvezda
*čihna* - znak, cihna =tĦn= – obelisk, stela, vrata, ibis
*nava* - novo +neua+ - novo =mwj= - novo
*AvAre* - branik +auari+ - stolp, straža =hwj=-varovanje
*mišra*- mešano +immijani+ - mešati =amj= - mešanje
*dura* - daleč +dalugašti+ - dolžina =dr= - oddaljiti
*anna* - hrana +adana+ - jed, hrana =hnw= - hrana
*tapas* - toplota +tapaša+ - vročica =taw= - vročina
*svapna* - spanec +šup+ - spati =šab= - slepo
*pari, sprš*- prijeti +epp, epAri+ - prijeti =šsp= - prijeti
* ruša, rakta* - rdeče +ešharuant+ - škrlatno =čr, jns= - rdeče
(=dšrt=- rdeča zemlja)

Egiptian-Slovenian similarities;

=čat=- posoda, čeber, shramba, čast (=sata= - kača, zemeljska površina, čast)
=gaga= - gaganje =hajt= - vhod, nebo
=Ħčn=- česen =Ħprt= - dogodek, prihodnost
=Hkrt= - okrasje =jħw= - jasli, hlev
=jnk= - moje, jaz =jrwt= - obred
=jt= - 1. ata, dedek, učitelj, predniki, 2. ječmen, žito
=jw= - ja, tako je, resnično ( je) =kħaw= - kotel
=kħs= - del, kos =kħkħ= - krhko
=qdrt= - kadilo =qrsw= - krsta
=mrħt= - mast =mrj= - marati, ljubiti, nasesti, hlapec =nhj= - nekaj =nsa= - nož
=ppn= - poper =prw= – vzhod, sprevod, vsota, pivo
=psjt= - posoda =rš= - vrh
=sawj=- podaljšanje, lastno, svoje =sawtj= - stražar
=sAď =- zdraviti =sbtj= - zid, obzidje
=sčp= - poskočiti =sh= - ustrašiti, ustrahovati
=spj= - gradnja ladje, ostanek, preostajanje, spajanje
=sĦAt= - zajec =swaš= - slaviti
=šbt= - buča =šďt= - testo
=snnw= - drugotno, rezerva, slama, seno
=šwšjt= - suša, izsušenost =šww= - slama
=tnmw= - tema =wan= - brin
=wAmt= - omejitev =wnħw= - venec
=wr= - lastovica, starosta , kralj, pomen, sila, velikost, mnogo, veliko =wršt= - stražarnica =wsrt= –ogenj, mučilni kol, vrat
=wsrw= - sila, veslo =ww= – val

=Awt= -posoda, žezlo, pastirska palica, drobnica ( ovca )
=babat= - izvir ( brbotanje) =babaw= -jama ( bavbav)
=bak= - delati, delavec ( bog, bik) =črb= - posoda ( črepinja)
=djw= – krilo, predpasnik ( odeja ) =ga= - petje, piskanje, naprava, čaplja (godba) =gwn= - vreča (gvant ) =ħbs= - oblačenje, obleka, pokrov ( jerbas )
=ħp= - hitenje, dlan, bik Apis ( hip)
=Ħast= - hribovje, gorata dežela, tujina ( hosta)
=Ħprr= - skarabej, sončni bog (keber)
= Hast - vodnjak ( štirna)
=jakb= - žalovanje / =jk= - tožiti ( jok)
=jaq= - obvladati ( jako ) =jam= - žrtvovati / jama
=mska= - koža, kožuh ( maska) =jčn= - tožba, kričanje, ječanje =jča= - lopov ( ječa) =jnq= - zajeti združiti (junak)
=jrčt= - mleko ( ričet, jogurt) =jrp= -grozdje, trta, vino (tropine) =qrnt= - (neobrezan) falus (kurent) =kap=-pokriti, skriti, streha ( kapa)
=qrrtj= - prebivalec podzemlja, sončni bog ( krt, krtova dežela)
=mačw= - žezlo ( meč) =maAt= - resnica, pravica ( mera)
=maħ= - ploskanje, venec (mahanje) =mďt= - mazilo ( mast)
=mnhjw= - kamen ( menhir) =mw= – voda ( morje)
=njwt= – naselje, mesto, nasprotno nebo ( njive)
=nďnď =- prošnja, klepet ( čenčanje, nič )
=pħ= - doseči, zgrabiti, napasti ( pehati se, upehati)
=rĦ= - izkušnja, spoznanje, spolno občevanje, vedenje ( res)
=skr= - Sokar - sokoljeglavi bog onstranstva ( sokol)
=sn= - odpiranje, vohanje, brat, svak ( nos )
=spr= - prispetje, prošnja, rebro ( prsa)
=šrr= - majhno, nepomembno, mlado, tekoče (drobno, zrnato)
=tkn= - bližanje, približanje ( dotikanje)
=rmj= - jok, rama ( jamranje) =rnpt= - leto ( lani, zopet)
=rp= - mošnja ( žep) =najt= - tkalnica ( nit)
=rd= – noga, sled, rast ( nart) =ršt= - riba ( roštilj)
=srt= – ovca, trn ( srt) =stA= - dejavnost (storiti)
=stwtj= - vsebina ( vsota ) =šaq= - torba ( žakelj)
=ts= – zavezati (tesno) =wabt= - korenina, hrana ( vaba )
=wrrjt= – voz ( vrtenje) =wšaw= - tema, noč ( večer)

sanskrt punic

*sal* - poslati »šlh« - poslati, razširiti se
*vid* - vedeti »jdA« - vedeti
*abhra* - prah »Apr« - prah
*žara* - starost »ršat« - starost
*rAža* - kralj »raš« - glava, glavar
*arka* - žarek »Ar« - luč
*išta* - želja »aršt« - želja
*brnh* - močno »bra« - močno
*hari* - zlato »hrš« - zlato
*mlAj* - veneti, medleti »aml« - veneti, medleti
*jAga* - žrtev »jgn« - dar
*Aža* - koza »Az« - kozel
*rbhi* - mojster, obrtnik »rb« - mojster, učitelj
*rt* - beseda, reč »rAt« - sklep
*šam* - svetnik »šm« - narediti, slava
*suprija* - zelo prijetno »spr« - lepo, čudovito
*kAla* - čas »kl« - vse, vsebovanje
*bala* - sila »bAl« - vlada, malik
*nr* - človek, junak, narod »nAr« - sin

hettite punsko

+uijanna+ - vino »jn« - vino
+šuppiuašhar+ - čebula »bśl« -čebula

egyptian punic

=tr= – čas, trenutek, trajanje »dr« - čas, družina
=qd= - zidanje, skleda, kad »kd« - vrč ( kad)


sanskrt hettite punic

*grath* - graditi +gurta+ - grad »gdr« - zid ( grad)
*lih* - lizati +lip+ - lizati »lšn« - jezik
*krt* - sekati +kartAj+ - odrezati »krt« - zaklati


sanskrt egyptian punic

*aham* - jaz =jnk= - jaz »ank« - jaz
*ptat* - ptič =Apd= - ptič »Apt« - ptič
*mr* - umreti =mwt= - umiranje »mt« - umreti
*pračh* - vprašati =sprw= prošnja »arš« - vprašati
*pač* - kuhati =psj= - kuha »apj« - peči
*phala* - plod =prt= - plod »pr« - plod
*dur* - duri, vrata =trj= - vhod, vrata »dlht« - vrata, tabla
*stri* - ženska =st= - ženska »ašt« - ženska
*šri* - sreča =ršrš= - sreča »arš« - sreča
*bhu* - biti, bivati =bjt= – čebela, kralj, značaj »bt« - bajta
*bhr* - pobrati, nesti =br= - borša, barka, barvilo »nša« - nositi
*bhaja* - strah =sAba= - bojazen »bAt« - cena, strah



egyptian hettite punic

=hmwtj= - umetnik +ummijani+ - umetnik »amn« - umetnik




sanskrt hettite

*sadas* - sedež +ašatar, ašandaš+ - sedež
*juga* - plug +appalašša+ - plug
*giri* - gora +šer+ - gor, zgoraj
*tAta* - oče +atta, adduš+ - oče
*čašaka* - čaša +ateš+ - čaša (+huppar+ - kupa)
*antar* - notri +anturija, andurza+ – notri
*dama, amA*-dom, doma +parna, damet+ - dom, razkošje
*živa* - življenje +huiš+ - živeti
*dAru, dru* - les +taru+ - les, drvo
*dAja, jAga* - dar, darovanje +iuar+ - dar
*šrnga, karna* - rog, uho +karuar+ - rogovje
*tala* - dlan (*kara* - roka) +keššar+ - dlan
*madhu* - med +milit+ - med
*manžu, sasneha*-nežno +genzu+ - nežnost, ljubezen
*pAda* - stopalo, peta +pat+ - stopalo
*han* - nehati +zena+ - konec
*šarad* - leto +št+ - leto
*deša* - dežela (*kšetra* - polje) +dagan, tekan+ - zemlja
*drš; dršti* - zreti, videti +uatar+ - videti, vid
*kloša* - klic +kaleš+ - klicanje
*sunu* - sin +ši-+sin
*pA, sar* - piti, srkati +pašk+ - srkati, piti
*As, lapana*- usta +aiš+ - usta (allapahh - pljuniti)
*tvam* - ti +ta+ - tebe, tebi
*upanga* -sv, znak (sandale na čelu) +kunzi+ - sveti znak
*anka* - zanka, kljuka +anku+ - popolnoma


egyptian punic

=st=- stol (=jsbt= - prestol ) »jšb« - sedež
=hbw= - plug »alp« - plug
=hr= - hribovje, kanal »hr« - hribovje
=wtčw= - sin, oče »abt« - očetje
=kč= - kupa, čaša »kba« - kupa, čaša
=hnw= - notri (nčr - bog) »bgw« - notri
=pr= - hiša, stavba, prostor »am« -domače mesto
=AhAw= - življenje »hwj« - živeti
=nArt= - drevo (js - les) »jAr, As« - les, drvo
=dj= - dati »dl«-delo (»jgn«-dar)
=wpt= - rogovje (db - rog) »krn« - rog
=mjt= - omamna pijača »npt« - med
=drt= - dlan »jd« - dlan
=b= - stopalo »pAm« - stopalo
=sfn= - nežnost »snf« - nežno
=hn= - nehati »nh« - mir, počitek
=rnpt= - leto »št« - leto
=ša= - dežela »šd« - polje, dežela
=jrt= - oko, vid »hzj« - zreti
=kj= - klicanje »kra« - klicanj
=sa= - potomec, sin »bn, š-« sin
=pš= - pijača (swr - srkanje) »štj« - piti, srkati
=ra= - usta »p« - usta
=tw= - ti, te, tebe »at« - ti
=čbt= - sandala, copata »ţbAt« - pečat
 
I call this language "human language", if we all come from Africa, then this might be the proof of it...
 
Vedun said:
I call this language "human language", if we all come from Africa, then this might be the proof of it...
Click to expand...
Out of Africa origin goes back 70 thousand years. Do you think that any language could retain any words any artifacts of the original African language? It is more likely that similarities and borrowings in languages go back to spread of farming 10-5,000 years ago from Near East and spread of Indo-Europeans 4,000 years ago in Europe and Asia.
 
ScienceOwnsImposters said:
The veneti/wends/vandals/goth phoenicians were the basques aka the 1st mariners and 1st white race that colonized the earth and gave rise to white people aka true hebrews of the bible.
Click to expand...

1121.gif
 
Vedun said:
Phoenician (derives from Feniti, Veneti) god Baal was Slavic god Veles (Vaal or Vol; "wool" (Bull; Ox(Vol).

There are linguistic indications that even Akkadians have had some influence of old Slavic languages. Slovenian engineer, linguist Lucijan Vuga collected at least 500 words/similarities between Slovene-old Akkadian in a short dictionary. (In Slovene remained also strong similarities with the ancient Rig Vedic (Rek Vedski) Sanskrit); and Sanskrit shared similarities with Hittite. For example: Hittite city of Kadesh shares similarities with the Sanskrit term deza which means "country" and with Slovene dežela which means a "country". The similar form for this word is "Desh". So "Kad-desh" or "Country of Hittites". (and not a "holy land" as it is explained on Wikipedia.
Veneti were a multi ethnic, lingual people but I think that there were similarities between them over the "Amber road/path". From Scandinavia (if you've ever heard about the theory of "Troy (another Venetic people) in Scandinavia") to Paflagonia, Anatolia, Venetic territories.
Click to expand...


I doubt seriously Veneti (WeneTi) could have a link with PHoeniCians (linguistic link of names, I mean): here Wikipedia about phoenicians:

The name Phoenicians, like Latin Poenī (adj. poenicus, later pūnicus), comes from Greek Φοίνικες (Phoínikes), attested since Homer and influenced by phoînix "Tyrian purple, crimson; murex" (itself from phoinós "blood red").[9] The word stems from Mycenaean po-ni-ki-jo, po-ni-ki, ultimately borrowed from Ancient Egyptian fnḥw (fenkhu)[10] "Asiatics, Semites". The folk-etymological association of phoiniki with phoînix mirrors that in Akkadian which tied kinaḫni, kinaḫḫi "Canaan; Phoenicia" to kinaḫḫu "red-dyed wool".[11][12] The land was natively known as knʿn (cf. Eblaite ca-na-na-um, ca-na-na), remembered in the 6th century BC by Hecataeus under the Greek form Chna (χνα), and its people as the knʿny (cf. Punic chanani, Hebrew kanaʿani).
 
Vedun can you give also English translations of those words ??? I want to see what they mean.

Because for example word "computer" is similar in all languages, but obviously not because of a common Out-Of-Africa origin... :grin:
 
OK, how did language branches like Semitic, IE, Caucusian got into existence? All in the same time, or there were people who spoke one of these languages and decided to invent a new one? Or it was just a misfortunate chain of events?
 
dublin said:
zanipolo



you call it Indoeuropean and i will call it Slavic. not the only Slavic mind you. I2a is also Slavic. there was not only one migration between Europe and India. there were many. i believe that people first went from Balkan to India and then went back. Same people same language different generations.

Now when Indoeuropeans came to Europe from India...
Click to expand...

Indoeuropeans originate in the Pontic or Altaic steppe, NOT India.
 
The only wends appear to be from the Veleti people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veleti

and the term was used from germania to the vistula river and nothing or nobody east of this vistula river
 
what a mess,this thread!
i doubt Y-E of any sort could have a tight link with Veneti of West (Celts) and even with other Veneti, but whoknow.
I reread qome posts and I found (again) the claiming that all this Ven...something were linked to rivers: but almost every tribe is linked to a river in some way in Europe! I don't know a human group living only on mountains crests or ridges without access to some water!
 
EV13SON said:
I wonder if my SNP marker E-Y41980 is tied to movements of Veneti tribe...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pt6ylbchaobrty7/E-FTA50192.png?dl=0
Click to expand...


That's hard to tell. The only thing we can say is that it is likely that the Veneti had more E-V13 than neighbouring Italics. For one, the modern region has a higher frequency than the neighbouring areas, but its hard to tell to which era and people this can be attributed. In the other regions of the macro-region, those areas with a better continuity of the non-Italic local Iron Age, mostly Urnfield and Hallstatt derived, E-V13 is higher. Examples being Western Switzerland, Eastern Switzerland (especially St. Gallen), Tyrol, Eastern and Central-Southern Austria, Liguria, area of Venice, especially the more coastal regions, especially in some old settlements, including those of so called commons. Slovenia being split into a Western-Central part with extremely low frequency, but higher J2, probably dating back to the more Illyrian shifted Unterkrainer group, but possibly being the result of later shifts to, with the Eastern parts (Styria and Lower Carniola) having higher percentages, the latter also because of Uskoks as a historical migration.

In any case, the classic Italic areas have a fairly low percentage, Ligurian, Veneti, Eastern Hallstatt with Basarabi-Dacian ties, so later most of the Alpine Celts and Alpine Romance, higher. Its very noticeable in the areas which are the most Italic and typically Italian, E-V13 is very low, its highest in areas which had Ligurians, Veneti, Alpine Celts and later Germanic-Slavic-Greek settlements. Culturally the Veneti being much more influenced by the Thraco-Cimmerians and Eastern Hallstatt than regular Italics and its not by chance they were renowned for their horsmanship, gear and horsebreeds. Unlike the regular Italics, which had a much weaker developed cavalry and horse breeding.
 
MOESAN said:
what a mess,this thread!
i doubt Y-E of any sort could have a tight link with Veneti of West (Celts) and even with other Veneti, but whoknow.
I reread qome posts and I found (again) the claiming that all this Ven...something were linked to rivers: but almost every tribe is linked to a river in some way in Europe! I don't know a human group living only on mountains crests or ridges without access to some water!
Click to expand...


did you mean these Veneti

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneti_(Gaul)
 
@Torzio:
Yes.
I read the abstract you give me its link. Interesting but not conclusive. These genetic diseases seems very very seldom, even in their places of higest occurrence; the genes causing them can disappear or increase in a few generations, according to their variable effects (homo > < heterozygoty) and more or less physical exertions;let's look at haplo's drifts/founder effects in some cases. Some other diseases are more probant because they occur at higher occurrence in pop's, due to less letal effects. I have not read the intire abstract and it would interesting to know if this diseaese is always caused by the same precise modification in genome.
I doubt (at this point of time) of an Anatolian origin of all "Veneti"+ "(H)eneti" and so late.
Concerning possible links between some Veneti, I would accept very more easily a connection between southern Veneti (N-Adriatic) and northern Veneti (Poland), because it could be very possible pan-Italic Veneti came from a more northern earkier position than N-Adriatic, for linguistic reasons.
That said, I have no cristal bowl.
Thanks for your post.
 
I want to clear up any misconception I was not suggesting the Veneti or Wends (Proto Slavs) were large haplogroup E carriers, I fully believe they were Indo Europeans, I just wondered if these tribes could have picked up some E-V13, to help explain the formation of SNP E-Y41980 or YFULL E-Y17356, when settling in the Italian region and possibly bringing north into the Baltic and Scandinavian regions. However as Riverman suggested it could have originated in Swiss/Austrian territory and traveled north as well, I will have to familiarize myself with the other neighboring tribes.
 
EV13SON said:
I want to clear up any misconception I was not suggesting the Veneti or Wends were large haplogroup E carriers, I fully believe they were Indo Europeans, I just wondered if these tribes could have picked up some E-V13, to help explain the formation of SNP E-Y41980 or YFULL E-Y17356, when settling in the Italian region and possibly bringing north into the Baltic and Scandinavian regions. However as Riverman suggested it could have originated in Swiss/Austrian territory and traveled north as well, I will have to familiarize myself with the other neighboring tribes.
Click to expand...

Eastern Hallstatt and Basarabi is the most likely connection, with an earlier along the Thraco-Cimmerian horizon, which had a good impact on the Veneti. Look at the map again, in Italy, its specifically their territory which got affected:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thraco-Cimmerian#/media/File:Thraco-Cimmerian.png

This has nothing to do with Indoeuropean or not, because E was Indoeuropean at that time, for a long time. A possible path was from Lengyel -> Epi-Corded -> F?zesabony -> Kyjatice-Piliny-Gava -> Channelled Ware horizon spread with Daco-Thracian speakers (IE, linguistically closest to Baltoslavs and Illyrians in an intermediate position probably).

I was searching for a connection of the old "smith caste" surviving in the Epi-Corded context, as one theory of how E-V13 could survive the steppe conquest and being integrated in the new Corded Ware world coming from Lengyel. This might be a possible path, the origin of Gava can be traced to the Upper Tisza, the triangle of Hungary-Slovakia-Romania, and cultural formations like Suciu de Sus, Lăpuş, Kyjatice, Piliny - about which possible origin I wrote my last post. Now I made this highly interesting find:

Die Bronzewerkst?tten der Pilinyer und der Kyjatice-Kultur31 beschafften ihre regionalen Rohstoffen aus der Erzlagerst?tten der
slowakischen Erzgebirge (Ni?n? My?ľa), der westlichen Karpaten (Umgebung von Kremnitz/ Kremnica/ K?rm?cb?nya), sowie der Kleinen und Wei?en Karpaten (?pania Dolina). Die Nutzung dieser
Bergwerke begann ab der sp?ten Lengyel-Kultur, doch ist auch ihre bronzezeitliche Nutzung (z.B. durch
die Lausitzer-Kultur) bzw. die Erzverh?ttung gut bekannt32
Click to expand...

https://www.academia.edu/3060312/Ch...rös_Region._Hydrology_Reliefs_and_settlements

Piliny-Kyjatice used the same mines as the Lengyel, there is an ongoing tradition of mining and forging in the Carpathians - a direct continuation from late Lengyel usage in Slovakia! That's bulls eye and could be it.

For any concrete E-V13 subclade, the path must be evaluated of course, because after the initial spread from the Carpathians, many routes can lead to the same destination.
 
Very interesting Riverman I'm about to head out the door to see Dune :LOL:, I had argued before in groups that I believe much of E-V13 were probably culturally more Celtic so it looks like you may be on to something to help explain my argument...I will read up this weekend!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

This thread has been viewed 144876 times.

Back
Top