OFFTOPIC from Albanian

[mihaitzateo]

I was thinking that was a gothic influence in albanian language,remained from the time goths passed by here.
I saw there are few loan words from gothic in albanian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania...e#Gothic_loans

As my opinion,no one knows what language dacians were speaking,and I still think they were speaking some kind of germanic.
As for today romanian and albanian,maybe some of those words from the document Diurpaneus posted are taken in both languages from turkish,other sure,are common from other sources.
I saw that in most european languages,both romance and german languages you tell polenta but in romanian that is called mămăligă and is same called in albanian and pronounced (the letters are pronounced same),written mëmëligë.
This is clear not taken from turkish,since it existed in romanian language before the turks appeared in Europe.

See there that the color cyclamen is said to be an old greek loan,I will continue with my opinions,is not a greek loan,since is present exactly same in romanian,albanian and icelandic,is from thracian (which was some kind of germanic language).
romanian - ciclamen
albanian - cyclamen
icelandic - cyclamen

In all three languages is pronounced and spelled same.

[zanipolo]

I was thinking that was a gothic influence in albanian language,remained from the time goths passed by here.
I saw there are few loan words from gothic in albanian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania...e#Gothic_loans

As my opinion,no one knows what language dacians were speaking,and I still think they were speaking some kind of germanic.
As for today romanian and albanian,maybe some of those words from the document Diurpaneus posted are taken in both languages from turkish,other sure,are common from other sources.
I saw that in most european languages,both romance and german languages you tell polenta but in romanian that is called mămăligă and is same called in albanian and pronounced (the letters are pronounced same),written mëmëligë.
This is clear not taken from turkish,since it existed in romanian language before the turks appeared in Europe.

See there that the color cyclamen is said to be an old greek loan,I will continue with my opinions,is not a greek loan,since is present exactly same in romanian,albanian and icelandic,is from thracian (which was some kind of germanic language).
romanian - ciclamen
albanian - cyclamen
icelandic - cyclamen

In all three languages is pronounced and spelled same.

whats the romanian word for penguin?

whatever you come up with , its a borrowed word ........... lets end this fictional word association linking words with other peoples cultures

[Endri]

I was thinking that was a gothic influence in albanian language,remained from the time goths passed by here.
I saw there are few loan words from gothic in albanian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania...e#Gothic_loans

As my opinion,no one knows what language dacians were speaking,and I still think they were speaking some kind of germanic.
As for today romanian and albanian,maybe some of those words from the document Diurpaneus posted are taken in both languages from turkish,other sure,are common from other sources.
I saw that in most european languages,both romance and german languages you tell polenta but in romanian that is called mămăligă and is same called in albanian and pronounced (the letters are pronounced same),written mëmëligë.
This is clear not taken from turkish,since it existed in romanian language before the turks appeared in Europe.

1) This is not a thread to talk about Dacian language cause one exists already and if Dacian is related to Thracian then i'm 99.9% Dacian is not a Germanic language
2) Mëmëligë? I'm Albanian and i know and heard lots of words in my life but this one i've never heard it mention. What is it? Enlighten me...

See there that the color cyclamen is said to be an old greek loan,I will continue with my opinions,is not a greek loan,since is present exactly same in romanian,albanian and icelandic,is from thracian (which was some kind of germanic language).
romanian - ciclamen
albanian - cyclamen
icelandic - cyclamen

In all three languages is pronounced and spelled same.

1) In Albanian it is written "çiklaminë". The /c/ you've written, if read in Albanian would be the Romanian /ts/, so it would like tsytslamen. Already here you argument of exactly the same is busted.
2) English-cyclamen
Italian-ciclamino
German-zyklamen
Hungarian-ciklàmen
Latvian-ciklamena
Lithuanian-ciklamenams
Polish-cyklamen
Portuguese-ciclame
Swedish-cyklamen
Welsh-cyclamen
Finnish-sysklaami
...and the same is for all the remaining IE languages including Slavic ones. So idk either you are blind to not see that this word is exactely the same in all IE languages or you are lousy at doing research.

[Diurpaneus]

Regarding that list,of course there are many words borrowed from latin also from turkish.
But some of them could be of Paleo-Balkanic origin.

For example: Romanian zana-fairy
Albanian zane-fairy(from the forest)

[8mike]

Regarding that list,of course there are many words borrowed from latin also from turkish.
But some of them could be of Paleo-Balkanic origin.

For example: Romanian zana-fairy
Albanian zane-fairy(from the forest)

here is a curious fact, in the old language spoken in Sardinia, the word for "fairy" was "jana"

[mihaitzateo]

Diurpaneus the word is more exactly,in romanian zână and in albanian zanë,which is pronounced almost same.

ă from Romanian is pronounced same as ë from albanian language,the sound the english people are calling schwa (as u pronounce indefinite article,for example a cat).
Add to that what 8mike told,about the old language spoken in Sardigna,where you say jana and is clear from same source,older than latin and greek,no ideea where it is.

[8mike]

Add to that what 8mike told,about the old language spoken in Sardigna,where you say jana and is clear from same source,older than latin and greek,no ideea where it is.

Robert Elsie says that the albanian "zane" can be related to Latin "Diana". This is most interesting, we have a connection between pre-iE, Latin, Albanian, Romanian(maybe Daco Tracian ?).

[Diurpaneus]

"zână, zînă ‘a fairy (queen)’. As once written (Paliga 1989 a), cannot be
explained from Latin Diana: neither the phonetic changes, nor the general
situation of the ancient Latin god-names do not allow such a hypothesis.
The word must be of Thracian origin, from the same root like Slavic žena,
and its meaning was, for sure, ‘woman’, hence – by euphemistic and taboo
approach – ‘female deity = fairy’."

Duridanov connects zana/zane with Thracian names Zanus,Zania,Illyrian Zanatis,Albanian Zana.
From PIE *gen- to give birth

http://www.unibuc.ro/uploads_en/2953...hrSacNames.pdf

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Append...European_roots

[Diurpaneus]

"zână, zînă ‘a fairy (queen)’. As once written (Paliga 1989 a), cannot be
explained from Latin Diana: neither the phonetic changes, nor the general
situation of the ancient Latin god-names do not allow such a hypothesis.
The word must be of Thracian origin, from the same root like Slavic žena,
and its meaning was, for sure, ‘woman’, hence – by euphemistic and taboo
approach – ‘female deity = fairy’."

http://www.unibuc.ro/uploads_en/2953...hrSacNames.pdf

[mihaitzateo]

Robert Elsie says that the albanian "zane" can be related to Latin "Diana". This is most interesting, we have a connection between pre-iE, Latin, Albanian, Romanian(maybe Daco Tracian ?).

Well in old romanian,instead of zi for day,you were telling dzi.Ok but that is dz turned to z however,from Diana it should be d turned to dz first,which I doubt.

[8mike]

what about the connection with Sardinian "jana"? it has also a masculine form which means "little man" or "dwarf".

Also, is it possible that "zana" could be a compund word? "z" (maybe it can be some sort of feminine prefix) + "ana" (which can relate to "jana" and νᾶνος)

[mrikë]

what about the connection with Sardinian "jana"? it has also a masculine form which means "little man" or "dwarf".

Also, is it possible that "zana" could be a compund word? "z" (maybe it can be some sort of feminine prefix) + "ana" (which can relate to "jana" and νᾶνος)

If that were the case, then Zanas would not be known in folklore as beautiful,tall,wondrous creatures.

[8mike]

If that were the case, then Zanas would not be known in folklore as beautiful,tall,wondrous creatures.

well mythical creatures can change their features over time :) but i don't really know, i am just supposing

[MOESAN]

Well in old romanian,instead of zi for day,you were telling dzi.Ok but that is dz turned to z however,from Diana it should be d turned to dz first,which I doubt.

I am not a specialiste for East european languages but the évolution is POSSIBLE (not proved for romanian or albanian)
in some palatizing laguages:
DI- >>/dy/>>/dzh/ = /dj/>> /dz/
french north poitevin & québécois TI>>TS - DI>>DZ
french north auvergnat CABRA (chèvre) : >> /tchabra/>> /tsabra/ <> bourbonnais (North of Auvergne) CAPELL- >> (chapeau) >>/*tchapèo/ >> /tsapyo/ >> /sapyo/
it is

[Taranis]

I'd like to ask though: why should there be any connection between Albanian and Sardinian? The pre-Roman inhabitants of Sardinia very probably spoke a non-Indo-European language or languages (some vocabulary of which was preserved in Sardinian dialect), and were most probably a leftover of Europe's Neolithic population. Besides, even from the genetic perspective you can make a very strong argument that they were completely unrelated, as the ancient Sardinians were most probably G2a and I2a1a (aka I2-M26). If there is any connection between Sardinia and mainland Europe, I would seek it with the Basques and the ancient Iberians (I2-M26 has the highest concentrations in Catalonia and the Basque Country).

[8mike]

I'd like to ask though: why should there be any connection between Albanian and Sardinian? The pre-Roman inhabitants of Sardinia very probably spoke a non-Indo-European language or languages (some vocabulary of which was preserved in Sardinian dialect), and were most probably a leftover of Europe's Neolithic population. Besides, even from the genetic perspective you can make a very strong argument that they were completely unrelated, as the ancient Sardinians were most probably G2a and I2a1a (aka I2-M26). If there is any connection between Sardinia and mainland Europe, I would seek it with the Basques and the ancient Iberians (I2-M26 has the highest concentrations in Catalonia and the Basque Country).

if i remember right there are a few words in common between albanian and basque language. maybe the pre albanian language was not IE. also
sardinian:eni = alban enjë

sardinian:alase spear grass = alban halë thorn

sardinian: lothiu mud (topp: Lotzorai, Lothorgo, Loceri, Lotzeri) = alban lloç ‘mud

sardinian: dròb(b)alu pig intestine = alban drobolì intestine

sardinian: urtzula ‘clematis’, top. Urtzulei = albanese hurdh ivy


also

basque: txerri pig = albanian derri pig
basque: ardoa wine = albanian ardhi grapevine
basque: buztan tail = albanian bisht tail (but i think this is IE)

also even in serbo-croatian you can find similarities with basqu:
particularly gora (mountain) and gore (up). Gorain Basque is up, upwards, being a clear ethimologically Basque word (goi+ra: to the high) The other connection was reka (river) and erreka (creek, small river) but this can well be an IE import into Basque.

So this is why it wasn't so strange to me that Sardinian and Albanian could have a connection in some ways.

[mihaitzateo]

So dròb(b)alu pig intestine = alban drobolì intestine
In sebo-croatian drob means intestines,according to wikitionary:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/drob
And it seems correct since google translate also know to translate this word from croatian:
http://translate.google.com/#hr|en|%...BE%CC%91%D0%B1
This word is told to be from proto-slavic language,on wiktionary.

Here could be another strange link to some romanian word,think a very old word,that is still in use today.

And in romanian,you also tell to the totality of lamb internal organs drob
http://www.dictionare-online.ro/drob.htm
http://dexonline.ro/definitie/drob/paradigma
Check the 2nd meaning of the word.
(you see is written there "2. S. n. Măruntaie de miel.")
Google translate would not know to translate the word Măruntaie but it means the totality of internal organs.
(according to wikipedia dictionary maruntaie from romanian it also means intestines:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/m%C4%83runtaie so is possibile that drob from romanian means also lamb intestines - I do not know the exact meaning of the word).

[Endri]

if i remember right there are a few words in common between albanian and basque language. maybe the pre albanian language was not IE. also
sardinian:eni = alban enjë

sardinian:alase spear grass = alban halë thorn

sardinian: lothiu mud (topp: Lotzorai, Lothorgo, Loceri, Lotzeri) = alban lloç ‘mud

sardinian: dròb(b)alu pig intestine = alban drobolì intestine

sardinian: urtzula ‘clematis’, top. Urtzulei = albanese hurdh ivy


also

basque: txerri pig = albanian derri pig
basque: ardoa wine = albanian ardhi grapevine
basque: buztan tail = albanian bisht tail (but i think this is IE)

8mike if I may ask you, how did you learn Albanian?

Also:

1) Llaç (and not lloç) does not mean mud but stucco/plaster, more exactly we call llaç the material which is used to connect the bricks/stones ect.
2) Droboli, may i ask you were did you find/heard this word or what dialect or region it is? The only similar word i know is "Drobitje" and it means "feeling tired/sick/not well".
3) Hurdh-Ivy? Again where did you find it? An similar word I can think is Hisëll which means poison ivy.

PS: Grapevine is "Hardhi" with the /h/

[8mike]

8mike if I may ask you, how did you learn Albanian?

Also:

1) Llaç (and not lloç) does not mean mud but stucco/plaster, more exactly we call llaç the material which is used to connect the bricks/stones ect.
2) Droboli, may i ask you were did you find/heard this word or what dialect or region it is? The only similar word i know is "Drobitje" and it means "feeling tired/sick/not well".
3) Hurdh-Ivy? Again where did you find it? An similar word I can think is Hisëll which means poison ivy.

PS: Grapevine is "Hardhi" with the /h/

i learned albanian from my parents.
the words i posted are all from linguist Alberto Areddu. The word "mud" i used as "lloç" i use to pronounce it "lluc".

[8mike]

So dròb(b)alu pig intestine = alban drobolì intestine
In sebo-croatian drob means intestines,according to wikitionary:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/drob
And it seems correct since google translate also know to translate this word from croatian:
http://translate.google.com/#hr|en|дро̑б
This word is told to be from proto-slavic language,on wiktionary.

Here could be another strange link to some romanian word,think a very old word,that is still in use today.

And in romanian,you also tell to the totality of lamb internal organs drob
http://www.dictionare-online.ro/drob.htm
http://dexonline.ro/definitie/drob/paradigma
Check the 2nd meaning of the word.
(you see is written there "2. S. n. Măruntaie de miel.")
Google translate would not know to translate the word Măruntaie but it means the totality of internal organs.
(according to wikipedia dictionary maruntaie from romanian it also means intestines:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/măruntaie so is possibile that drob from romanian means also lamb intestines - I do not know the exact meaning of the word).

even better :) Romania is further away but still has the connection with sardinian, it could proove in some way that illyrian-thracian culture and old non IE language have something in common.

[Endri]

i learned albanian from my parents.
the words i posted are all from linguist Alberto Areddu. The word "mud" i used as "lloç" i use to pronounce it "lluc".

Well "lluc" and "lloç" are quite distant and not similar though "llucë" indeed means mud.

Also I have an idea, with what I've read from this author that he is some sort more a "charlatan" linguistic than a real one.

[Taranis]

Also I have an idea, with what I've read from this author that he is some sort more a "charlatan" linguistic than a real one.

Absolutely. The guy in question wrote a bizarre book with the title "The Albanian Origins of Sardinian Civilization", and it's complete nonsense. I don't really have the time right now to address this issue in detail (because saying that some apparent cognates are in fact not what they seem, but explaining why and how the entire methodology is completely flawed takes a bit longer), but I'll get back to this in time.

I'll say a few more words regarding ancient Sardinia however (which really don't belong here since the topic, no matter how interesting, has absolutely nothing to do with Albania or the Albanian language): from the archaeological perspective, Sardinia was part of the Beaker-Bell Culture (late 3rd millennium BC) which during the Copper Age / early Bronze Age encompassed much of Western Europe (as well as parts of Scandinavia and North Africa), and which also included Sardinia.

During the Bronze Age, Sardinia was home to the so-called Nuraghic civilization/culture, which built it's distinct towers all over the island. There existed similar cultures on Corsica (Torrean culture) and the Balearic Isles (Talayotic culture), which were possibly related.

There is a possible connection between the name "Sardinia" and the "Sherden" or "Shardana", one of the ethnic names of the Sea Peoples as they were recorded in Egyptian sources in the 13th century BC.

From approximately the 8th century onward or so, Sardinia got under the influence of the Phoenicians, who established trade posts along the island's coasts, until the island was conquered by the Romans in the wake of the Punic Wars (3rd century BC).

In a nutshell, 2000 years of prehistory and no evidence of any connection with the Balkans.

[Yetos]

8mike if I may ask you, how did you learn Albanian?

Also:

1) Llaç (and not lloç) does not mean mud but stucco/plaster, more exactly we call llaç the material which is used to connect the bricks/stones ect.
2) Droboli, may i ask you were did you find/heard this word or what dialect or region it is? The only similar word i know is "Drobitje" and it means "feeling tired/sick/not well".
3) Hurdh-Ivy? Again where did you find it? An similar word I can think is Hisëll which means poison ivy.

PS: Grapevine is "Hardhi" with the /h/

Indeed the word for mud in Greek is Ιλυς Ilus and the connected material is λασπη (ιλυσ+ποιω ->λασ-πη) laspi
I have read somewhere that Illyria = lands of rain so land of mud, but I don't think so, cause of double ll

[julia90]

In favour of the linguistic connection pointed above i have to point that Sardinian Canto Tenore is similar to the Albanian one, in both cultures Sardinian and Albanian is related to shepards.
So there could be an effective ancient common origin between sardinians and albanians, (thought on genetic it's difficult to prove, because sardinians are also distant to italians, and more over the sardinian have a very south-western genetic, while albanians have a south eastern genetic)

Have a look on Sardinian and Albanian Singing
Sardinian

[Yetos]

Absolutely. The guy in question wrote a bizarre book with the title "The Albanian Origins of Sardinian Civilization", and it's complete nonsense. I don't really have the time right now to address this issue in detail (because saying that some apparent cognates are in fact not what they seem, but explaining why and how the entire methodology is completely flawed takes a bit longer), but I'll get back to this in time.

I'll say a few more words regarding ancient Sardinia however (which really don't belong here since the topic, no matter how interesting, has absolutely nothing to do with Albania or the Albanian language): from the archaeological perspective, Sardinia was part of the Beaker-Bell Culture (late 3rd millennium BC) which during the Copper Age / early Bronze Age encompassed much of Western Europe (as well as parts of Scandinavia and North Africa), and which also included Sardinia.

During the Bronze Age, Sardinia was home to the so-called Nuraghic civilization/culture, which built it's distinct towers all over the island. There existed similar cultures on Corsica (Torrean culture) and the Balearic Isles (Talayotic culture), which were possibly related.

There is a possible connection between the name "Sardinia" and the "Sherden" or "Shardana", one of the ethnic names of the Sea Peoples as they were recorded in Egyptian sources in the 13th century BC.

From approximately the 8th century onward or so, Sardinia got under the influence of the Phoenicians, who established trade posts along the island's coasts, until the island was conquered by the Romans in the wake of the Punic Wars (3rd century BC).

In a nutshell, 2000 years of prehistory and no evidence of any connection with the Balkans.

Could the above mean that Sardinia is a Thyrrenian name?