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Thread: Euro Crisis, Greek depth, the retaliation of the Greeks

  1. #1
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    Euro Crisis, Greek depth, the retaliation of the Greeks



    Well since I have not write about that a long time I decide to write now,

    The basic is a late Gallup

    http://tvxs.gr/sites/default/files/a...-picture-1.jpg



    the first is the goverment party which had 40% before
    the second is major opponent which was goverment before and last was 36%
    the forth is a kind of Christian democrats, a Nationalistic party traditional Right last election 7%
    these 3 supported Mercel and IMF their power was 83% last elections,
    the 7th is a new party that also supports the memorandum, an ex-prime minister daughter
    now the non memorandum
    the 3rd is Communist fans of Marx and Lennin had 8%
    the 5th is a kind of Che quevara Left a democratic soft communism or sosialism
    they had 5% last
    the 6th is Green-ecologists which is considered a sem-left party last time about same
    the 8th is a kind of European sosialists -communists non russian style non Dictatorship of proletarians, something like old Italian Communist of 70's
    the 9nth party is a kind Black-block, a foundamentalists party about Anarchy Theorytical and Proudon-Bakounin
    (if I write them correct)
    the 10nth is Greek Nazi which for time after 1936 may come to be elected,
    the 11th is a soft central-sosialistic party
    the 12 is a new party of right mainly the ones who do not want memorandum,

    as you see the memorandum forces (mercel and IMF solutions) are only 40% from 83% that were in last elections,

    especially the leader of the 12 party does not recon, and will bring referendum, about the whole memorandum
    which means that he started a war against EU and IMF
    a lonely guy that started his war in January, and now he has 11% of Greeks !!!!
    while the Far Lefts reach 36% !!! for first time above their powers of Sixties when united gather 29% and was considered the Max of 'communistic' influence ever in Greece, Before Junda


    B the Siemens case

    http://news247.gr/oikonomia/oikonomi...h.1702878.html

    according the Data and the Numbers Siemens comapny did damage 1,500 000 000 E the Greek Public, due to Greek laws
    and was to be boycot,
    the evidence that some non memorandum parties bring show that Greek should follow the way German public did and ask 4 billion E by sending Siemens in German court with German law,
    The case of Christoforakos is well known and was the key in case of German public against Siemens
    But the names that took money so support the not 'good' for Greeks agreement are BIG so the case is not even going to a Greek court, and pass by a few Hundred millions E
    the time that Greek suffer the Greek non elected Papademos is accepting a humiliating for Greek people agreement.
    I wonder why and under who's command? is that the way a technocrat should work?

    it not only siemens but also many other companies-corporations but the Siemens case is like a sharp wooden log in front an eye,


    C The Greek Society retaliation,

    I am very proud cause the effort started in my personal homeland Pieria Makedonia
    it is known as Katerini model or the potato movement

    you can see information here

    http://www.anasta.de/TOPOS/index.php...tpage&Itemid=1

    I personally know many of the guys,
    the starting idea was to bring farmers to markets,
    Farmers that were excluded by big merchants Banks etc
    cause did not use 'medicines' and did not support 'Hybrids' or did not took loans from a bank or a merchant etc.
    and to raise the income of producers,
    so what happened,
    they decide to discuss with producers to drop prices of small quantities, but with a load of a big,
    example
    a merchant buys Neyrokopi potato for 7,5 -9 cents per kilo
    then that potato pass a small check and went market reaching the price of 75-90 cents per kilo,
    the money were paid via Bamk and after 6 months whic is considered the time to sell,
    so what Happened,
    Dimitris and his friend manage to help the producers sell at 15 cents per kilo, pay the trucks, the oil, and the ones who helped volunteers,
    and manage to drop price to 25 cents per kilo,
    after selling 115 tons (only in Pieria) all producers-farmers were happy for 2 reasons
    1 cause they sell in good prices,
    2 cause they took money in cash and not via bank after 6-8 months,

    the ones who bought were happy cause they bought good quality potato at a price of 25-32 cents according the distance. which is 50-67% discount,
    after 2 times the potato price drop in whole country by 35-40 cents in super markets,
    and the magnificent
    the import of potato drop at 75% (-25%)
    the 40% of imported potato from EU remained unsold !!!!

    the model passed to many other products like olive oil, rice, flour having 25-60% discount
    Olive oil accidity 0-0,5 extra virgin from undone olives (Best quality) sold at a price of 2,8 E per litter !!!!
    when Italian merchants wanted at 1,85 -2.25 per litter,

    the Dream of the model maker team which are kiwi producers now is to sell next year kiwi in Munchen at the price of 1 E per kilo and kick DOLE, (the gathering and selection cost is about 30-35 cents per kilo)
    and in summer Pierian-Ematheian
    peaches (Γιαρμαδες) about 80 cents per kilo,
    meaning that 4 pieces per kilo about 20 cents the peach,

    the result of the movement,
    1 big Super market and product chains loose a lot of money, i read somewhere that only .... (no advertisement, but is big chain in EU) lost about 200 millions
    2 Banks run out of cash more
    may I remind you that a strange law in greece say that if I buy or sell something bigger than 1500 E I must put the money in Bank !!!!!
    3 imports of products that can be imported droped to 25-50% according the product
    main reason is that Greek middle and poor class took all their economies from the banks,
    so banks can not pay foreign by cash, and they reach their credit limit, so no money no import, no import, the bigger the inner production, and the best the prices, since 'big merchants are leaving' the field.


    4 The Helios program
    That is the most terrible case,
    it was 500 000 000 m2 to put solar panels so Germany to have clean energy with less CO2 in the atmosphere,
    well cases like Kapsis and papakonstantinoy (ministers) still support it, but it seems it will be a past,
    Greeks are mad with this program,
    why?
    cause Every Greek is paying a fine due to Lignitis (a bad coal from earth with 50-70% Carbon)
    in every electric KWh there is a 2% cost to pay the Fine,
    Greece is fanatic ANTI-NUCLEAR ZONE, so nuclear plants are prohibited,
    the only solution is Solar energy, which only 200 000 000 m2 are enough so greece to stop paying the fine
    Solar energy could help greek citizen save from 10-100 E per month according the quantity of electric he wants
    and earn another 100- ??? if he produce (privet solar panels)



    there are many other movements,
    Like
    THE ANTI 'TUI' movement which is supported mainly by medium and small Hotel owners,
    the anti Siemens movement, which every day advertise what Siemens did to Greece and who took money,
    The change side movement, which mainly express that Eu weapons are very expensive and Greece must start buying Russian or another,
    ETC

    there are 3 moto in Greece
    1 the one of the memorandum supporters
    Maybe we needed that measures, but certainly we need Euro and EU
    2 the one who do not support memorandum
    after the entrance in EU corruption get double, (x2)
    and after the entrance in Eurozone corruption get quandriple (x4)
    we lived before with no Euro, we can do it again
    3 by all, almost, except politicians
    Set up a new Goydi and hang all those corrupted,

    As you see 'Dirty' Greeks as their grand father Odysseus find solutions that 'system' did not expect

    may I remind you all that 30% of what, until 'swaps', EU gave, did not went to greek people, but to the Banks, in order to save them, and buy them,


    and for those who afraid Greece, DO NOT,
    99% have nothing to 'share' or against someone, humans are humans,
    the wrath of Greeks is major as the Gallup shown above
    1 against their own politicians,
    2 against Banks and certain corporations
    3 against each politician who said that Greeks are lazy,
    May I remind you that in a late report about ΟΟΣΑ greeks were the 4rth when Koreans the 1rst, and someones were at 30 position, having 2 months of vacation, while a Greek spends 7-10 days.


    if someone wants to see and realize what is happening,

    http://denplirono.wordpress.com/2012...%8E/#more-5365


    so in order to send depth in to future
    which Greek politician name it as 'erase of 105 Billion E'
    the depth become 174 billion E and with the new loan reach 247 billion E for 2042

    from the new memorandum greece will take 174 billion E which (more 113)
    from which 65% goes to ... BANKS especially the Greek ones will take 50 %
    so the case is nothing more than the politician who have shares and big deposits in Banks save their money,
    only the 13% of Greeks is saved by memorandum by some search,
    the rest will go to priveteers and the other Eu central Banks,
    while the Greek insurance organisations and deposit who lose 11 000 000 000 E TAKE NOTHING
    Troika's law or Goldman's Suchs will,
    as you see memorandum 2 did nothing more than to empty the last Greek non Bank, non Goldman's sachs or JPMOrgan deposits of the insurance and small helping corporations, and puts Greece in to the mouth of Goldman's sachs, and its allies,
    remember papademos, the favorite technocrat of Mercel, as also Dragi were in Goldman's sachs servise,

    It seems like Greece is a frontier, if it falls, then indeed trillaterals will rule over the world,


    If European Union wants to Help Greece then Help the effort to get rid the corrupted, fight corruption, say truth, and mainly PUNISH THE GUILTY,
    Last edited by Yetos; 23-03-12 at 02:35.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    What is the election threshold in Greece?

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    about 29 April to 13 of May

    first party gets a bonus of 50 parliament members
    (a late law which started with bonus 30 autonomy at 44% of Votes
    then become 40 autonomy 40% of Votes)
    now is 50, meaning that if first party gets 36% can make its own goverment,)

    the lowest limit is 3% of Valid votes to enter Parliament

    members are 300
    from which 12 are analogical from all the country
    fifty are bonus to first party by they are considered as peripheral
    and 238 goes by simple analogy.

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    Well since most in Europe believe in the Crisis or at least hear about, and since the major problem for some is considered Greece and not Goldman Sachs Monti Dragi Papafemos etc which for me is the major problem

    Lets have another look at Greece,

    the latest Gallup give



    lets explain again

    1rst is today Goverment Center-Sosialists (Memorandum Mercel and IMF followers)
    2nd is the old Goverment a central right party (Memorandum Mercel and IMF followers)
    3rd is the traditional communist (Stalin Marx Lenin followers)
    4rth is the right party a kind of Christian democrats (Memorandum Mercel and IMF followers)
    5th is a Left party a kaind of Che-guevarian or Alto-Moro political point (Non Memorandum)
    6th is the Ecologists a left party that (Non Memorandum)
    7th is a new left party that was once one with 5th but they split, they claim as non memorandum but they are unpredicted since 80% of the are from today goverment Central Lefts,
    8th is an ex prime minister daughter, a central right party (Memorandum Mercel and IMF followers)
    9th is the Nazi party which is a non Memorandum party
    11 th is a new Central Right Party which is also a non memorandum party..

    now lets see some details
    the supporters of memorandum and the current solution,
    about 41% !!!!
    a percentage of them in another gallup they are not even Greeks but immigrants from Albania Russia Ucraine and Georgia Ossetia as also from Africa Syria India Pakistan Iraq etc
    they try to manage to gather 101 parliament members with plus the bonus of 50 they may make a goverment

    the non memorandum
    more than >51%
    but they are divided in not a common target.
    the Lefts try to make a unification movement to join all lefts and with the 40$ make a goverment for first time in History, but they could not Agree,
    the rights seems to be about 17% not a strong candidate for goverment but for first time Nazi's enter parliament after 1936

    the main proposition of memorandum do not exist,
    simply the question-dilemma Euro-Zone and EU or not?

    the non memorandum forces,
    well their propositions are according their political field,
    main propositions
    1) The crisis is not people's crisis but Banker's
    When a bank earns the money goes to shares and Bank owners the rich ones
    why when a bank collapse poor people must pay taxes to save a Bank?
    Let banks collapse don't pay the extra money,

    2) Taxation to rich than taxation to middle and poor.

    3) Send all illegal immigrants back home and stop givving green cards to immigrants, they cost more than they produce

    4) Start a boycot against Germany, especially in the Army supplies electic industry and Car industry,
    a new era of Cold war in Europe,

    5) Start fight the multinational corporations in Super markets and wherever, especially Siemens which is a case that Even German politicians 'cover up'

    6) Stop Frontex effort that is planning to send 35000 EU soldiers in Greece (12 000 German soldiers)

    7) Give all immigrants Greek passport, Send them to EU, and then close boarders. Let EU policy and laws to take care about them, Greece can feed 2 000 000 immigrants.

    8) Stop borrowing from EUC bank with interest of >3,5 % and start borowing from Russia and China with rate of 1%

    in 6th of may or 13 of may elections day, lets see.


    Greece is only the 2-3% of European depth, if Greece gets out of Eurozone, even EU, that would help the Crisis,
    cause crisis does not exist, it is a fabricated theory by Bankers so gain more power,

    my personal
    As a Greek I am not willing to obey, to sell or to destroy my life, to save the Duetsche BundessBank or ECB or Monti or Dragi or Papademos. and a message to Christine the lady of IMF

    http://news247.gr/eidiseis/oikonomia...s.1727431.html

    Si vous voulez mes economies, pour sauver l'echek de votre travail, mα reponse est NO.
    Je n'ai rien lorsque les banques gagnent.
    Ne payez pas rien quand les banques perdent



    the Myth of Bankers
    if you cut the sallaries then the state is more delightfull for investors,
    Bul...t Romania and Bulgaria have the lowest prices. why they are not an attraction of Investers,
    cause Bankers always lie,

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    These are 3 Videos.

    the first is Canadian,
    the other 2 are Greek

    it is how democracy should work as freedom of speech
    and not as it works today,

    these are answer to Van Rompay tweet
    soon I will more about that

    first video the Canadian


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    Well continuing the above post the second video


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    And finaly the last video


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    as I said in the title of the Thread, the retaliation of the Greeks,

    these are the results of 2009 elections in Greece






    AND THESE ARE THE 2012





    as you can see the differences are Big,

    Interesting cases

    Mercozy and anti-memorandum forces

    1) Mercozy forces

    Pasok from 43,92% το 13,18% (Green colour)
    Ν Democracy from 33,47% to 18.86 % (light blue)
    Laos from 5,63% to 2.9 % out of parliament (need 3%)
    DESY New 2,56% out of parliament (need 3%)

    2) anti-memorandum forces ( anti Mercozy, anti IMF)
    SYRIZA from 4.60 to 16,77% (Pink colour)
    KKE from 7.54 to 8,48 % (red colour)
    Independent Greeks New 10,60% (dark blue)
    XA (golden dawn-Nat Soc) NEW 6.97% (black)
    DHMAR NEW 6,10% (brown colour)
    Eco-Greens from 2,53 to 2,93% out of parliament (need 3%)

    The above are the main above 2% in votes.



    Now according their political ID

    XA (golden dawn) Greek style NAZI
    LAOS (ortodox peoples alarm) Christian style, traditional national right
    AE (Independent Greeks) right central-right
    ND (new democracy) right central-right
    DhSy (Democratic aliance) Central to right
    Pasok (Sosialist movement) left central Left
    Dhmar (Democratic Left) Left central left
    Syriza (Coalition of radical Left) Left non Marxists (socialists to Che quevara)
    KKE (Communist Party) Marxists (ex USSr style)

    Eco Greens are always a special case mostly moving in the left voters but that does not put them in traditional left.


    the total estimation is that EU 'Lovers' take about 37.50% from above 83% that had in 2009

    EU 'enemies' take about 10-12 % (small parties that did entered parliament)

    the face of EU 'scepticism' first time as it is expressed takes about 49-52 %

    I think the result speak clear

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    The results of the elections are a clear and loud F§&? OFF to Brussels and Merkel. I am delighted the Greeks take the chance to stand up and say "enough". I have read a lot about the Golden Dawn "Nazi" party, and it was not long before Venizelos asked for a government of national unity to keep them and the extreme left movements outside of government. That is a blatant lack of democratic values. If these groups have been elected democratically by the people, they have the right to take their seats. Once again, some politician thinks he has the higher moral ground and tells what the people should do. Of course, he is not one of those who lost everything and live their daily life struggling with anguish thinking about where they will get the next meal and where they will get the money to pay their bills. I am quite surprised we haven't seen more violence coming out at the "politicians". If the man on the street would commit the kind of mistakes and crimes these men in suits have commited, he would lose his job in a flash and would probably be prosecuted for an arm-long list of offenses and felonies.
    The road will be rocky for Greece, and long, and painful, but they have sent a clear message to Brussels and Berlin that they would not take any more of it. Congratulations to the Greek people for starting to take their future in their own hands.

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    Greece have to leave the Euro and the EU now. A vote against austerity is a vote against the rest of Europe. At every opportunity Greece has not met its commitments, on entering the Euro, on managing their Economy in line with a developed western nation, on accepting responsibility for their bankruptcy, on meeting the terms of their initial bail-out package, on not calling surprise referendums without discussing it with your EU partners. An now after so much work has gone into to writing down Greek debt and trying to keep the country afloat the people have spoken with as Cimmerianbloke put it F*** Europe!

    The EU and IMF have to look at shoring up the the rest of Europe to absorb the default. As for Greece let them descend into a third world nation the home of democracy has spoken and they have chosen to turn their back on the being a developed western economy. There is no such thing as a free meal, Greece is going to learn this the hard way.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by edao View Post
    Greece have to leave the Euro and the EU now. A vote against austerity is a vote against the rest of Europe. At every opportunity Greece has not met its commitments, on entering the Euro, on managing their Economy in line with a developed western nation, on accepting responsibility for their bankruptcy, on meeting the terms of their initial bail-out package, on not calling surprise referendums without discussing it with your EU partners. An now after so much work has gone into to writing down Greek debt and trying to keep the country afloat the people have spoken with as Cimmerianbloke put it F*** Europe!

    The EU and IMF have to look at shoring up the the rest of Europe to absorb the default. As for Greece let them descend into a third world nation the home of democracy has spoken and they have chosen to turn their back on the being a developed western economy. There is no such thing as a free meal, Greece is going to learn this the hard way.
    And by what authority do you claim that Greece has to go out of the Eurozone and out of the EU? Is there a hierarchy pyramid in the EU where one can say that the other is not good enough based on their interpretation of a situation? Is this what Europe has become? Then it truly is a Union without a future.

    EU member states have a right not to "bail out" one particular country, but they can not force them to go out of a currency union, much less out of the European Union as a whole. That is fascism! Just like this so called "bail out" deal which is made only for the sake of the banks and not the Greek people. It's not working. Not only in Greece, but all countries which are bailed out.

    Moreover, if Greece collapses, in four years they will have the most economic growth in Europe, while many other countries, like Britain, will be in the same situation Greece is in right now. Sure, some governments who think like you will want Greece to suffer after they (officially) declare bankruptcy, but many other countries who also risk falling will have a sense of solidarity for them. In other words, it will be total chaos. Smart countries will leave the Euro immediately after Greece is out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edao View Post
    Greece have to leave the Euro and the EU now. A vote against austerity is a vote against the rest of Europe. At every opportunity Greece has not met its commitments, on entering the Euro, on managing their Economy in line with a developed western nation, on accepting responsibility for their bankruptcy, on meeting the terms of their initial bail-out package, on not calling surprise referendums without discussing it with your EU partners. An now after so much work has gone into to writing down Greek debt and trying to keep the country afloat the people have spoken with as Cimmerianbloke put it F*** Europe!

    The EU and IMF have to look at shoring up the the rest of Europe to absorb the default. As for Greece let them descend into a third world nation the home of democracy has spoken and they have chosen to turn their back on the being a developed western economy. There is no such thing as a free meal, Greece is going to learn this the hard way.
    The ones who should leave EU are the Goldman Sachs agents and employs.

    The one who should be afraid of Greek decision are the 'Bankers' the 'Trilaterals' and the 'G30
    '


    Greek people are started to think after 1974 clear, without the 'his master's voice'

    Edao the ones who vote the old Memorantum parties are the old man

    the memorantum Parties have at age above 55 years old >25% while in youth and middle age <10%
    The above means that the power of the memorandum-Mercozy forces is fake cause sometimes old people vote due an older politician, or an older memory, and some elder Greeks still vote under the memory of junda or civil war.
    that means that the new generations in Greece start to think Different, and most of all
    THEY DO NOT AFRAID

    just watch the 3rd video above.

    if some EU bankers or corporation head managers want to make Greece a colony, that means Blood

    EU is still at the point that USA was before civil war.
    I don't know if European Dixie will lose the war. but I know that once again Greece wrote History, saying a big and loud NO to EU bankers dictatorship.

    I do not know the future, BUT I AM PROUD FOR THE RESULT.

    PS
    IF YOU WANT SOMEONE TO BLAME FOR THE ENTRANCE OF GREECE AT EUROZONE,
    THEN BLAME MARIO DRAGI, PAPADEMOS AND GOLDMAN SACHS,
    CAUSE YOU KNOW THAT THEY DID THE 'COOKING' OF THE GREEK ECONOMY
    DON'T BLAME GREEKS BUT GOLDMAN SACHS,


    Του Ελληνα ο Τραχηλος, ζυγο δεν εσηκωνει (Greek moto)
    translation,
    The Greek donkey is strange donkey,
    It can be driven by carrots , but never use a whip
    there is lyric in the Anthem of Makedonia
    Ολα και αν τα χασουμε η λευτερια μας μενει
    (even we lose everything, Free we must stay)


    SO EDAO
    if the rest of Europe wants to be under Goldman Sachs commands
    then I agree that Greece should be outside EU and Euro,
    but when Goldman Sachs makes your country to a Latin America one, then don't blame Greeks,

    BTW
    but the better answer to you is given by yesterday by the ex-president of European Committee (1999-2004) M. Pronti, in 3 newspapers Di presse, Der Standart, Courir,


    WHEN A BANK EARNS MONEY
    THE PROFIT GOES TO SHARE OWNERS AND HEAD MANAGER
    WHEN A BANK LOSES MONEY
    WHY SIMPLE PEOPLE MUST PAY THE DAMAGE?


    That is what is wrong with EU of Mercozy.
    Last edited by Yetos; 10-05-12 at 04:40.

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    I said before months that Greek people are turning to buy local products, non imported, and especially avoid Super Markets,
    but seems that this costs to Bankers and Big Chains of Super Markets,

    the last year Lidl show a big pathetic almost near collapse. Haldi close, and Carrefour are about to broke,
    so they invented a new law to make money and destroy Greek production and market.
    what? look the bellow

    http://news247.gr/eidiseis/oikonomia...s.1970610.html

    MINISTER OF DEVELOPEMENT DECIDE THAT SUPER MARKETS CAN SELL EXPIRED-DATE FOOD AT LOWER PRICE, AND PEOPLE SHOULD EAT IT,

    so the stupidity goes on, lets feed Greeks the stock of expired food of Europe, and take their money to save Banks and corrupted goverments, and big chain Markets.

    On the other hand, and I am proud again for that, at Katerini again started another movement,
    after the 'avoid the merchants' movement which sell local products at a minimum price giving a big slam at big food chains,
    after the ecology products which made many local sellers to broke since there was extra agro-medicine and fertiles selling, creating bio-polution and raising the BOD to the waters,
    now a new big slam starts with the leave it on the basket,

    how it works?
    a group of 10-20 or more people go to a market,
    they take what they want and they estimate the price, according the price they ask a 'sale', a cheaper bargain about 5-15% which surely leaves profit to market and to people,
    they go all togather to the cashier and ask the lower prizes to the whole party (>10 basket reaching 150)
    the cashiers ask its superiors which always say no, so all leave it at the basket infront of the cash.
    i do not have ready the photo to show you about 130 basket filled with things to stay for hours.
    the movement is not illegal, and clearly shows the Big head of the market chains who should be the boss,
    it is called αστο στο καλαθι leave it at the basket,

    but as always the corrupted Greek politicians, which govern with the halp of a stupid law having less 50% of Greek people demand (about 35% if we include blank) decide to 'help' the p[aople by selling expired food,.

    I HOPE THAT CIVILIZED EU AND EURO_PARLIAMENT DO NOT ALLOW THAT HAPPEN,
    EXPIRED FOODS ARE NOT TO BE CONSUMED,


    IF EU WANTS TO HELP GREEKS DO NOT ALLOW THAT LAW TO PASS, THROUGH PRESSURE OUR GOVERMENT,
    if the law pass, then soon all Europe will eat expired,
    i said many times before, Greeks are the ultimate and the untaimed of Europeans,
    they useus as an expirement, they control everything, they pass what ever suits them, if the expirement succed, then will take part in another and another until the whole EU becomes under their control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    but I know that once again Greece wrote History, saying a big and loud NO to EU bankers dictatorship.

    I do not know the future, BUT I AM PROUD FOR THE RESULT.


    Your shortsightedness is terrible Yetos. "Pride", will be the only thing left to eat.

    IF YOU WANT SOMEONE TO BLAME FOR THE ENTRANCE OF GREECE AT EUROZONE,
    THEN BLAME MARIO DRAGI, PAPADEMOS AND GOLDMAN SACHS,
    C
    How many times Greece went bankrupt in last 100 years? How many times it was in crisis even since WWII? I'm pretty sure that you could fined someone else to blame every time, Yetos.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    "So in Washington on Monday, IMF head Christine Lagarde suggested that eurozone countries may have to take a haircut on loans they have made to Greece, agreeing to write off part of what they are owed.
    In addition, the ECB might also have to take losses on the estimated 40bn-euro worth of Greek bonds it owns."
    source

    EU won the nobel peace prize, because of the glorious social harmony it has nurtured since WW2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    [/B]
    Your shortsightedness is terrible Yetos. "Pride", will be the only thing left to eat.



    How many times Greece went bankrupt in last 100 years? How many times it was in crisis even since WWII? I'm pretty sure that you could fined someone else to blame every time, Yetos.
    you are right Le brok, 3 times in 20th century, one before a war, do you mention that a war is near?
    on the other hand how many times in 20th century Greece rule her shelf, and not puppets of foreign?

    Greeks especially in the country are in a fight today, as were Argentinians, Icelanders etc,

    search the economical profits that Deutchland had by Greek crisis and the industrial loss, and you will understand,

    Don't worry, Greek are good farmers and food always exist in countryside, the problem is the rest, the luxury life of a refreshment, a car, and the extra production that petrol can give.

    BESIDES NOBODY EVER ASK GREEKS IF THEY WANT EU, LISBON TREATY, DUBLIN TREATY, EURO etc

    so we all have Ak47, FN, and much tsipouro (alcohol) in our houses

    we want a Free world, and not Capitalistic or Communistic chains


    we are tired of their prophecies and their theories,
    so in 1945-49 we fought Communism,
    today we fight Capitalism,
    we have a record in stealing and Burning Banks, now we start war against big corporations that want to control food selling, and maybe we might gat another record,

    IF THE BIG CORPORATIONS CLOSE IS A DISASTER IN ECONOMY.
    IF BIG CHAIN CORPORATIONS CONTROL THE FOOD SELLING AND PRODUCTION IT IS NOT A DISASTER?


    Every measure that Troika said is a disaster,
    they said raise tobacco taxes, we react by buying tobacco and make our own cigarettes,
    600 000 000 loss to the state in 1 year.
    they said raise the oil taxes, we react by cutting woods for winter, and don't use cars, more than 1 000 000 000 loss in a year.

    we manage to gain 49,5 billions E from 2009 by stop importing and consuming only Greek products, and suddenly that corrupted ministers say that expired food is good and they help big corporations and bankers by selling cheap all the carbage from EU.
    that is a strike in our pride, and our efforts, so decide to strike back creating confusion and trouble at Super markets,

    LEAVE IT ON THE BASKET,

    send Tomsen and his company back to their houses,

    ,

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    One in 25 bosses may be psychopaths — a rate that’s four times greater than in the general population — according to research by psychologist and executive coach Paul Babiak.

    Reference: Study: 1 in 25 Business Leaders May Be Psychopaths

    By Maia Szalavitz | @maiasz | September 20, 2011


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    Well it seems that the sound against Bankers and the taxation of the poor to save Bank-sters, expand more North,

    Hungary is for years under IMF and ECB supervision, but did not manage to recover for many years now,
    so it seems Hungarians find the courage to raise their head against the parasites of modern societies and countries,

    starting point,
    THE TAXATION OF THE BANKS, NOT ACCORDING THEIR PROFITS, BUT ACCORDING THEIR PRODUCT, THEIR INCOMES.
    and a 6% tax to every stock exchange action,

    http://www.eglimatikotita.gr/2012/10/blog-post_757.html

    well done from me,

    Send Bank-sters there where they belong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Well it seems that the sound against Bankers and the taxation of the poor to save Bank-sters, expand more North,
    The poor pay taxes?! Don't make me laugh, lol.

    Hey what happened to occupy movement? Kids did some camping, ruined parks, ate free food, left their garbage and went home to mommy and daddy, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    The poor pay taxes?! Don't make me laugh, lol.

    Hey what happened to occupy movement? Kids did some camping, ruined parks, ate free food, left their garbage and went home to mommy and daddy, lol.
    Hahahaha. getting bigger, and bigger,

    the farmer, plant the seed, and waits for the crop,

    just think that the IMF supporters in Greece today drop to 35%

    SOCIALISTS WHO PROMOTE IMF IN HUNGARY AND GREECE TODAY HAVE LOWER %

    better read this,

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories

    want more
    the Lancarde list,
    most of the politicians have illegal money in Banks

    want more?
    the help from IMF and ECB goes 63% to the save the banks and nothing to people,
    but people pay taxes to save the numbers of the bubble money that Bank-sters create,

    in 1980's Communism went to meet history, in books stored in libraries,
    the seed started in Prague and Budapest from 1950's
    Capitalism will drop more quickly,

    People start to take their deposits from Banks, at least 60% of the Greek deposits went away from the banks to houses, so Goverments put taxes to support the loss of the Banks

    and since you know from Poland, you remember the days of the army and the generals.
    these days today exist in the Capitalistic world, death is near,


    the mafia of the Bank-sters will collapse easier.

    about Occupy wall street,
    a few days movement ghost terrorize you, why? cause you know that no matter Capitalistic Bankers own Media, Markets, army, police, goverments, the power is still to the people, and the parasites one day will pay.

    Iceland gave a good example by changing the constitution, not to the way that Bankers want, but to the way that people want,

    and between us, wait in 1, 2 years how 'occupy wall street' will grow,

    people know the week point of the rats castle.

    when unemployed must pay extra 200 E except the 500 (stamp plates) each year as class tax cause he has a used 10 years car of 1300 cc non turbo, then is stealing, if he sells the car he gets 500 E,
    if someone bought a house and pay 25% tax when he took the house* and now has to pay >1% tax each years cause Banks did wrong calculations is stealing.
    * the law in Greece was that since you buy a house you must pay 25% tax once in your life as owner, today (after crisis) the law changed and except the 25% also has >1% in a life time, empty or not.
    why? were all these taxes go?
    to loans that never delivered?
    to the corrupted Capitailist politicians?
    or to save the Bank-sters ass?

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    Unless you, or someone else, invent something better than capitalism, if it come to production and GDP, capitalism is here to stay.

    Yetos, don't confuse capitalism with banking. Money and banks have to exist in all economic systems. Actually if it comes to Greece, almost half of economy is in government hands. 40% of the Greek labor and business market was supplied by government. The mess in your country is made by your government and politics. It has nothing to do with capitalism, but rather with lack of it.

    What economic system do you propose for Greece?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Iceland gave a good example by changing the constitution, not to the way that Bankers want, but to the way that people want,
    The case of Iceland is indeed remarkable. For instance the people can decide now about national property:
    http://www.thjodaratkvaedi.is/2012/e...uestion_2.html
    Iceland is lucky because it is a tiny country with very low corruption. The tiny size allows quick and transparent organization of big changes. The democratic tradition of a transparent 'allthing' is probably one reason too. But probably also the negotiation with Russia was a helpful Joker during other negotiations with IMF, EU etc., I don't know.
    Ancient Greece once had a democratic system based on lottery. Nobody knew in advance who will be the next president, leader, or whatever. And every member of the circle had the same odds. The lottery mechanism can be kept technically transparent, not like humans. But I don't remember exactly when and were in Greece this was and how it was implemented.

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    It was during Pericles.

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    Le brok you are confusing Capitalism with Free World,

    Capitalism is the Bankers Rulling,
    No Banks no Capitalism,

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    it is written in Aristotle's 'Athenean constitution' Αθηναιων πολιτεια,

    yes, for example for 1 public position there were 20 candidates, from them by vote 5 were chosen, and among 5 lottery so to find the 1,

    THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS THAT IN ANCIENT DEMOCRACY POLITICIANS TOOK NO MONEY IN THE BEGINING AND AT THE END 3 SMALL COINS (an estimation of 3 month salary at a whole year of service) WHILE TODAY POLITICIANS TAKE THE BIGGER SALARIES AND MANY EXTRAS.

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