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Thread: Kosovo Albanians Haplogroups?

  1. #201
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Neither do I. That particular post is solid science.

    It's incontrovertible that E-V13 was in Europe 7,000 years ago, and it's incontrovertible that this ancient sample is related to modern samples in the countries listed.

    It's also a fact that the current distribution is due to an expansion during the Bronze Age.

    Inter-ethnic conflicts should play no part in analyses of the data.

    Ed. See post 150 for the relevant citations:
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...259#post440259
    Last edited by Angela; 29-09-14 at 04:17.


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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    Not another one to make conclusions like this:
    Sir it is a scientific facta 7000 year old skeleton in a Neolithic context in a Spanish funeral cave, was an E-V13 man. (The other specimens tested from the same site were in haplogroup G2a, which has been found in Neolithic contexts throughout Europe.) Using 7 STR markers, this specimen was identified as being similar to modern individuals tested in Albania, Bosnia, Greece, Corsica, and Provence
    They tested the skeletons DNA, This is a solid scientific fact and it is recent, when the DNA is involved it makes it even more conclusive.
    I suggest you read the whole paper of Lacan et al. (2011)
    Speculations about his look….
    http://www.livescience.com/42838-eur...sequenced.html

    Some more facts with resources...
    Y haplogroup E1b1b (E-M35) in the modern Balkan population is dominated by its sub-clade E1b1b1a (E-M78) and specifically by the most common European sub-clade of E-M78, E-V13.[68] The area in and around Albanian speaking regions has the highest known percentages E-V13 in the world, and it is thought that the majority of E-V13 in Europe and elsewhere descend from a common ancestor who lived in the Balkans in the late Mesolithic or Neolithic, and that men of this lineage began to spread outside the Balkans as early as the Neolithic, or even as recently as the Roman era.[68][69][70][71][72][73]

    Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
    Cruciani et al. (2007)

    Region/Haplogroup I1 I2*/I2a I2b R1a R1b G J2 J*/J1 E-V13
    Albania 2 12 1.5 9 16 1.5 19.5 2 27.5
    Kosovo Albanians 5.5 2.5 0 4.5 21 0 16.5 0 47.5
    Albanians (Macedonia) 1 9 1.5 18.8 1.6 21.9 39.1
    Greece (Peloponnese) 47
    Greece (South) 3 20 2.2 19.6 5.5 43.5
    Greece (North) 2 12 19 14.6 5.2 35.4
    Greece (Crete) 13 8.8 17 39 8.8
    Greece (Thrace) 19 22 12 19 19
    Greece (ethnic Greeks) 19 16 11.7 9 17 19
    Macedonia (ethnic Slavic) 1 33 1.5 5.1 15.2 1.5 24.1
    Bulgaria 4 20 2 17 11 5 11 3 23.5
    Bosniaks 4 56 0 16 3 2 3.5 0.5 10
    Bosnian Croats 0 71 2 12 2 1 1 0 9
    Bosnian Serbs 2.5 31 2.5 13.5 6 1 8.5 0 22.5
    Croatia 5.5 37 1 24 8.5 2 6 1 10
    Serbia 8.5 33 0.5 16 8 2 8 0.5 18
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...y_ethnic_group

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Neither do I. That particular post is solid science.

    It's incontrovertible that E-V13 was in Europe 7,000 years ago, and it's incontrovertible that this ancient sample is related to modern samples in the countries listed.
    He was not talking about Europe, but about Kosovo.

    It's also a fact that the current distribution is due to an expansion during the Bronze Age.
    Sorry but it isn't. Those are not called facts. Those are only statistical predictions. And they don't prove anything.

    Inter-ethnic conflicts should play no part in analyses of the data.
    What do you mean ethnic? How is one supposed to know the ethnicity of E-V13 some 5-10 years ago?!

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post
    Sir it is a scientific facta 7000 year old skeleton in a Neolithic context in a Spanish funeral cave, was an E-V13 man. (The other specimens tested from the same site were in haplogroup G2a, which has been found in Neolithic contexts throughout Europe.) Using 7 STR markers, this specimen was identified as being similar to modern individuals tested in Albania, Bosnia, Greece, Corsica, and Provence
    They tested the skeletons DNA, This is a solid scientific fact and it is recent, when the DNA is involved it makes it even more conclusive.
    I suggest you read the whole paper of Lacan et al. (2011)
    Speculations about his look….
    http://www.livescience.com/42838-eur...sequenced.html

    Some more facts with resources...
    Y haplogroup E1b1b (E-M35) in the modern Balkan population is dominated by its sub-clade E1b1b1a (E-M78) and specifically by the most common European sub-clade of E-M78, E-V13.[68] The area in and around Albanian speaking regions has the highest known percentages E-V13 in the world, and it is thought that the majority of E-V13 in Europe and elsewhere descend from a common ancestor who lived in the Balkans in the late Mesolithic or Neolithic, and that men of this lineage began to spread outside the Balkans as early as the Neolithic, or even as recently as the Roman era.[68][69][70][71][72][73]

    Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
    Cruciani et al. (2007)
    ...

    I've read the whole paper, and checked all the data tables while ago. You still seem not to understand what's the problem with your conclusions.
    You understand that "it is though" in not the same as "it is certain"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    He was not talking about Europe, but about Kosovo.


    Sorry but it isn't. Those are not called facts. Those are only statistical predictions. And they don't prove anything.


    What do you mean ethnic? How is one supposed to know the ethnicity of E-V13 some 5-10 years ago?!
    I have no idea what either of you is trying to prove, but it seems to have something to do with "ethnic" or "nationalistic" rivalry in the Balkans. What I do know is that such concerns should not affect scientific analysis.

    What is fact is that E-V13 is 7,000 years old in Europe. What is fact is that this sample is related to samples in Albania, Bosnia, Greece, Corsica, and Provence.

    That is not mathematical projection. It is based on the testing and comparison of actual yDna.

    The actual yDna of men bearing E-V13 in the Balkans has also been tested. It's phylogeny is clear. It is also a fact that most of it forms one cluster, with very little variation.

    It is the scientific consensus that when there is very little variation in yDna lineages, it indicates a relatively recent expansion from a small founder population. If you want to argue that the dates are off and the expansion did not take place in the Bronze Age because of the controversy over mutation rates, be my guest. The alternative to using the pedigree rate is to use the Zhivitosky rates, which are 2 1/2 times older, and which would put the expansion in the Balkans way back into the Neolithic.

    I have yet to see any scientific data or analysis contradicting any of this.

    As to the exact location of the specific E-V13 mutation, the jury is still out. Arguments can be made either way. The precise migration route taken by E-V13 is also not totally settled, but it is clear that it formed part of the Cardial expansions, and Cardial is intimately associated with the Adriatic coastal area of the Balkans, as was made clear in the map I posted.

    Ed. Of course, yDna is sometimes a poor predictor of autosomal similarity, as it is subject to founder effect, drift and possible natural selection factors etc. There is also an unfortunate tendency among some men to forget that they have mothers. Given what we know of situations where there has been primarily male mediated gene flow, the offspring in a very few generations might not share very much of the autosomal make up of the original yDna founder.

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    2 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    I've read the whole paper, and checked all the data tables while ago. You still seem not to understand what's the problem with your conclusions.
    You understand that "it is though" in not the same as "it is certain"?
    Sir, again, whatever you are pointing out is your opinion and i respect that. I am showing you scientific facts and you are coming with what is certain and what it is thought.
    whom do you give more weight regarding the facts, to your individual opinion or to scientific papers, research and DNA tests?

    It is certain that 7000 year old skeleton in a Neolithic context in a Spanish funeral cave, was an E-V13 man. It is certain that Albanian speaking regions has the highest known percentages E-V13. (this is even higher than those of current greeks)
    It is certain that E-V13 is at least since the Neolithic period
    It is certain that E-V13 represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes (this shows that it didnt came from north Africa nor western Europe nor West Asia cause of lower frequencies western Europe 2.5% Anatolia (3.8%) Near East (2.0%) Caucasus (1.8%) Africa at a low frequency (0.9%) Therefore it is certain that that the majority of E-V13 in Europe and elsewhere descend from a common ancestor who lived in the Balkans in the late Mesolithic or Neolithic, and that men of this lineage began to spread outside the Balkans as early as the Neolithic. Now this is only certain for the Neolithic period which is 10, 000 years. What happened before is a different topic.

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    My mistake. Sorry for interrupting. You're right.

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    maybe i'm wrong , i might have misunderstood you , but do you say that the Slavs have two HG's , R1a and I2 , if yes than i now 'see' that I is descendant of E.

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    0 out of 6 members found this post helpful.
    albanians are hamitic people coming from natoufians , they are the first people of europe their langage is a mix of aramaic and sumerian
    erebos : dawn in greek ; ereb : dawn in albanian ( homeric langage ) ; ereb: dawn in arabic

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    Quote Originally Posted by adian808 View Post
    albanians are hamitic people coming from natoufians , they are the first people of europe their langage is a mix of aramaic and sumerian
    erebos : dawn in greek ; ereb : dawn in albanian ( homeric langage ) ; ereb: dawn in arabic
    With the term ‘hamitic’ do you mean ‘african ‘?!

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriele Pashaj View Post
    With the term ‘hamitic’ do you mean ‘african ‘?!
    He does. However, he's entirely wrong. Also, judging by one post, probably a T-Roll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    He does. However, he's entirely wrong. Also, judging by one post, probably a T-Roll.
    Why is that word even censored here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatherland View Post
    Why is that word even censored here?

    Lol I wonder the same hahah

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