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Thread: a few questions by novice

  1. #1
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    a few questions by novice

    hello people, I have some questions. I'm not good at this but I'm sure there are some people who can answer my questions

    are all blonde/red hair and blue/gray eyed people relative? what are their possible y-dna haplogroups?


    for example what race can be blonde/red with blue/gray eyed people in Turkey? are they can be original Turks from central asia? or they are assimilated people?

    I'm trying to trace my ancestors. who were they? where they came from? or were they native?

    I'm sorry if those are noob questions but as I said I'm novice yet and learning. so, please help me to find my ancestors.

  2. #2
    Regular Member L.D.Brousse's Avatar
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    Could be Kurds as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by the new user View Post
    hello people, I have some questions. I'm not good at this but I'm sure there are some people who can answer my questions

    are all blonde/red hair and blue/gray eyed people relative? what are their possible y-dna haplogroups?


    for example what race can be blonde/red with blue/gray eyed people in Turkey? are they can be original Turks from central asia? or they are assimilated people?

    I'm trying to trace my ancestors. who were they? where they came from? or were they native?

    I'm sorry if those are noob questions but as I said I'm novice yet and learning. so, please help me to find my ancestors.
    No, blonde hair, red hair, blue eyes, and green eyes occur across many European populations. As such, the haplogroups will correspond across most European haplogroups. However, as the highest concentration of these things are amongst Northern Europeans, you're more likely to find them in Haplogroup I and R1b. There are also a few sub-Saharan Africans who also have natural red hair. This is very rare and part of one group.

    It is unlikely that someone with natural blonde or red hair is a Turk from a Mongoloid type of Turkic people. They are likely descended from a Caucasoid people during the Ottoman Empire. Mongoloid types have black and brown hair as a rule. You may have an ancestor that is Greek, Thracian, Macedonian, Armenian, Kurdish, or some type of Slavic. Your haplogroup may help to tell you something about this, but the haplogroup doesn't tell the whole of your ancestry, just your direct patrilineal and matrilineal line. So, for instance, your mother's father has no haplogroup input in your haplogroup, nor your father's mother.

    Turkey is a great country, by the way. I've been. HIghly enjoyed everything there.

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    ah I know kurds very well. kurds are not blonde, there are tons of kurd where I live and they are all middle eastern.

    if you want some detail, I'm talking about totally baltid looking people

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    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    No, blonde hair, red hair, blue eyes, and green eyes occur across many European populations. As such, the haplogroups will correspond across most European haplogroups. However, as the highest concentration of these things are amongst Northern Europeans, you're more likely to find them in Haplogroup I and R1b. There are also a few sub-Saharan Africans who also have natural red hair. This is very rare and part of one group.

    It is unlikely that someone with natural blonde or red hair is a Turk from a Mongoloid type of Turkic people. They are likely descended from a Caucasoid people during the Ottoman Empire. Mongoloid types have black and brown hair as a rule. You may have an ancestor that is Greek, Thracian, Macedonian, Armenian, Kurdish, or some type of Slavic. Your haplogroup may help to tell you something about this, but the haplogroup doesn't tell the whole of your ancestry, just your direct patrilineal and matrilineal line. So, for instance, your mother's father has no haplogroup input in your haplogroup, nor your father's mother.

    Turkey is a great country, by the way. I've been. HIghly enjoyed everything there.
    thank you so much for the reply. I want to give some more details my family members looks totally baltid. and as far as I know my paternal grandfathers were noble in Ottoman army. they have their own soldiers and fief. also my village's name is an ancient Greek name people still using greek name today.

    also there are some non turkish words in my parents language

    Peder-Father
    Birader-Brother
    Abrul-April
    and some armenian and greek words

    also there is a church middle of my village

  6. #6
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    There are few Turkish samples in the Dodecad dataset which ressemble Greeks. They could be of Western Anatolian origins.

    ¿Maybe your origins as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by the new user View Post
    thank you so much for the reply. I want to give some more details my family members looks totally baltid. and as far as I know my paternal grandfathers were noble in Ottoman army. they have their own soldiers and fief. also my village's name is an ancient Greek name people still using greek name today.

    also there are some non turkish words in my parents language

    Peder-Father
    Birader-Brother
    Abrul-April
    and some armenian and greek words

    also there is a church middle of my village
    As the Ottoman Empire was heavily cosmopolitan and featured a high proportion of Greek people inside of it, especially from Greek villages, it is likely your ancestors had some Greek admixture. You seem like a classic case where that is heavily a possibility.

    You must remember that Turkey does have a strong history of being mixed with the pre-existent Greek populations and then later the Greek migrations in the Ottoman Empire. Previous to Turkish control of Asia Minor, Western Turkey was dominated by Greeks (and later Romans) from the end of the Stone Age onward. In the east, you have another Indo-European people in the Hittites being the predominate power in deep antiquity. So in any sense, the Turkish invasion in the 7th century faced a very strongly non-Turkic population that they merged with.

    I mean, honestly, your parentage could be any of this. Could you tell us what village your family comes from? That's probably a great way to understand stuff. If, as you say, it is heavily Greek and with a church, then you are likely Greek in part.

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    I'm not nationalist and all nations same for me. just want to know their story. how they came there? when they arrived? etc. but as far as I know this is impossible to know. but maybe there can be little signs. so, I'm here.

  9. #9
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    I saw quite a few European looking Kurds during the war in 2008 living near the Turkish border

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by the new user View Post
    thank you so much for the reply. I want to give some more details my family members looks totally baltid. and as far as I know my paternal grandfathers were noble in Ottoman army. they have their own soldiers and fief. also my village's name is an ancient Greek name people still using greek name today.

    also there are some non turkish words in my parents language

    Peder-Father
    Birader-Brother
    Abrul-April
    and some armenian and greek words

    also there is a church middle of my village
    majority of Turkey population is not Turkish,
    it is local minor Asian, Greek, Thracian, Caucasian, Levantine, etc

    Blondism is a 'mutation' that happened probably around Baltic but it is not imposible to expand in Turkic steppes,
    so it is not possible that some Turks might be blond,

    Greek church does not mean to much cause the whole of Turkey once was Christian, it means that your village was until recent Christian,

    Blondism in Turkey has to do mainly with ancient Thracians or Greco-Thracians, some Varrangians or Rus castle, some crusading, much with some Caucasian populations, and some Scythian Aryan or Iranian populations
    Blondism that belong to proto Turks that enter minor Asian Seljuk etc, can be, but in very small limit,

    Red hair has also but mainly with ancient minor Asian population, some Armenians, etc

    genetical test can help you better, as also the history of your family.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  11. #11
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    Ancient stories say
    green eyes and red hair are thracians
    blue eyes are persians
    grey eyes are from the caucasus
    pale blonde from the baltic
    golden blonde from the caucasus and dorians
    light brown hair from alpine areas

    this is old tales, my hairdresser a turkish woman ( who says 7 generations turkish ) is blonde and grey eyed and was originally from estonia. Basically, what I am saying is, migrations have watered down the value of hair and eye colour as a marker of race or geography
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    majority of Turkey population is not Turkish,
    it is local minor Asian, Greek, Thracian, Caucasian, Levantine, etc

    Blondism is a 'mutation' that happened probably around Baltic but it is not imposible to expand in Turkic steppes,
    so it is not possible that some Turks might be blond,

    Greek church does not mean to much cause the whole of Turkey once was Christian, it means that your village was until recent Christian,

    Blondism in Turkey has to do mainly with ancient Thracians or Greco-Thracians, some Varrangians or Rus castle, some crusading, much with some Caucasian populations, and some Scythian Aryan or Iranian populations
    Blondism that belong to proto Turks that enter minor Asian Seljuk etc, can be, but in very small limit,

    Red hair has also but mainly with ancient minor Asian population, some Armenians, etc

    genetical test can help you better, as also the history of your family.
    At one point all of Turkey was Christian. The Roman and Byzantine periods had almost all of Turkey convert to Christianity. Almost all the churches that Paul wrote to were in Asia Minor.

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Ancient stories say
    green eyes and red hair are thracians
    blue eyes are persians
    grey eyes are from the caucasus
    pale blonde from the baltic
    golden blonde from the caucasus and dorians
    light brown hair from alpine areas

    this is old tales, my hairdresser a turkish woman ( who says 7 generations turkish ) is blonde and grey eyed and was originally from estonia. Basically, what I am saying is, migrations have watered down the value of hair and eye colour as a marker of race or geography
    All the lands you reference are of Indo-European peoples as opposed to Mongoloid. The Turkic peoples are closer to Mongoloid than Indo-European (although they somewhat bridge the gap in many lands). The idea is that he wanted to know if this indicated he wasn't an Asiatic/Mongoloid Turkic. It almost surely does show he has at least partial non-Turkic DNA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    However, as the highest concentration of these things are amongst Northern Europeans, you're more likely to find them in Haplogroup I and R1b. There are also a few sub-Saharan Africans who also have natural red hair. This is very rare and part of one group.
    As I know the highest percentage of blond people is among N1c haplogrpup which is closely related with "asian-looking" subclades from northern Russia.

    The highest concentration of blond hair/eyes people is between Estonians (90-95%) and they have cca 40% of N1c.

    I'm not sure that bearers of hg I are blond in a higher percent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gosh View Post
    As I know the highest percentage of blond people is among N1c haplogrpup which is closely related with "asian-looking" subclades from northern Russia.

    The highest concentration of blond hair/eyes people is between Estonians (90-95%) and they have cca 40% of N1c.

    I'm not sure that bearers of hg I are blond in a higher percent.
    Haplogroup I is common amongst Germanic and Slavic populations, which have a high rate of fair and red hair. However, as Haplogroup I is less common than R by a degree, there is a possibility that it has a lower concentration of blonde hair.

    Haplogroup N might be associated with Asiatic Northern Russians, but its prevalence in Estonians doesn't correlate well with Mongoloid features, and I don't know of any Russian/Northern European natives who routinely have blonde hair aside from the Sami. Haplogroup I is second most common after N in Sami populations. They're fairly thoroughly mixed with European populations.
    Last edited by JFWR; 07-07-12 at 12:09.

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    i think you have some great answers here already, but I would agree that the would have come down to Turkey from the Thracian gene pool

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