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Thread: Help with haplogroup

  1. #1
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    Country: Germany - Sachsen



    Help with haplogroup

    Dear All

    I have decided to join this wonderful community.

    I am a German, living in England for studying Genetic Sciences.

    I would like to ask for your advices on a colleague's racial profile and haplogroup. He has regrettably taken an Oxford Ancestors test and has been given 12 markers. I feel that they make quite a leap to assume whether you are Viking/Saxon/Celt/whatever with just 12 markers...

    Some information about our subject: He is white, tall 6ft5", 116kg, blonde hair at birth but now light brown.

    What are your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Great Adventurer sparkey's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    We'll need more than a phenotype to help with the haplogroup. What were the 12 markers?

  3. #3
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    Country: Germany - Sachsen



    These are the numbers :)

    19 - 15

    388 -12
    390 -24
    391 - 13
    393- 13
    389i - 10
    389ii -17
    425 - 12
    426 -12
    385a- 11
    385b -15
    437 - 15
    438 -12
    439 -12

    Thanks,
    Olga

  4. #4
    Regular Member
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-m223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H64

    Ethnic group
    Irish, English, French, German, Swedish, and Finnish
    Country: United States



    Phenotype, outside of broad strokes, is little evidence for genotype. However, were I to PURELY GUESS at his ancestry, I would say he fits a fairly Germanic look due to his light eyes, narrow head, long face, and light hair. He's also quite tall.

    However, you must recall that Y-DNA haplogroups are not one's only ancestry. One also has mtDNA, and of course, inheritance from your grandparents, great grandparents, et cetera. As it is often the case that looks skip generations (I look like my maternal great grandmother) this could tell you nothing about your father or mother necessarily.

  5. #5
    Great Adventurer sparkey's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    Ah, so he's R1b L11+ of some sort. The number of markers is indeed a bit low for telling you much with certainty about that particular haplogroup. Maybe someone with more knowledge of R1b haplotypes can give a more informed answer.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-m223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H64

    Ethnic group
    Irish, English, French, German, Swedish, and Finnish
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Ah, so he's R1b L11+ of some sort. The number of markers is indeed a bit low for telling you much with certainty about that particular haplogroup. Maybe someone with more knowledge of R1b haplotypes can give a more informed answer.
    Well, at least we know that he very likely European on his father's side, at least. A picture doesn't show much more than "broadly Caucasoid".

    How about we get some information on his ancestry? Especially with popular haplogroups, it's going to be hard to give specific areas without reference to personal knowledge of one's ancestry as purported in one's family documents and what not.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for all your replies so far.

    With regards to ancestry, we believe the paternal side is very English, surname is 'Smitan', of German origins linguistically I believe? Family on this side has been traced back to the late 1600 in Wiltshire, England.

    Maternal side is a bit more muddled. Few German surnames such as Dietz, also some Scottish surnames such as Ancrum and English such as Longley and Alderslade. Apparantly this side have distant relatives found in Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and Romania.
    Last edited by Olga; 26-07-12 at 19:13. Reason: typo

  8. #8
    Regular Member zanipolo's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a4o

    Ethnic group
    Down Under
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Ah, so he's R1b L11+ of some sort. The number of markers is indeed a bit low for telling you much with certainty about that particular haplogroup. Maybe someone with more knowledge of R1b haplotypes can give a more informed answer.
    why do you say it is this marker?

    apart from 389ii which is too low, the predictors give me either P m45 or R1b M269........he seems to originate in czech area which could be germanic instead of slavic

    but I am unsure if the markers presented are legitimate...........I would like to know what company gave these markers
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    why do you say it is this marker?

    apart from 389ii which is too low, the predictors give me either P m45 or R1b M269........he seems to originate in czech area which could be germanic instead of slavic

    but I am unsure if the markers presented are legitimate...........I would like to know what company gave these markers
    I believe the company was Oxford Ancestors. Hmm, so a Czech area is possible?

  10. #10
    Regular Member
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    Posts
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-m223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H64

    Ethnic group
    Irish, English, French, German, Swedish, and Finnish
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Olga View Post
    Thanks for all your replies so far.

    With regards to ancestry, we believe the paternal side is very English, surname is 'Smitan', of German origins linguistically I believe? Family on this side has been traced back to the late 1600 in Wiltshire, England.

    Maternal side is a bit more muddled. Few German surnames such as Dietz, also some Scottish surnames such as Ancrum and English such as Longley and Alderslade. Apparantly this side have distant relatives found in Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and Romania.
    Provisionally, he seems to have a predominately Germanic background, so it is likely that his haplogroup on his father's side (by being English) reflects this. R1b is popular in Germanic peoples. HOwever, it could also be Celtic as R1b is fairly popular in Western Europe and drops off in Germanic lands until it becomes rarer in Slavic ones.

    Basically, because he's part of the most popular haplogroup in Western Europe.

    If it is R1b-L11, it is central England full and through. You should get more genetic testing done to expand the markers. Sparkey can probably tell you which markers to get tested to determine if you're L11.

  11. #11
    Great Adventurer sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,251

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    why do you say it is this marker?

    apart from 389ii which is too low, the predictors give me either P m45 or R1b M269........he seems to originate in czech area which could be germanic instead of slavic

    but I am unsure if the markers presented are legitimate...........I would like to know what company gave these markers
    Use the SMGF conversion chart to convert the 389 values. I am quite certain he is R1b L11+ based on those markers. Haplogroup P (xQ, xR) would be extremely intriguing, but no, it doesn't look like he's Haplogroup P (xQ, xR).

    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    Provisionally, he seems to have a predominately Germanic background, so it is likely that his haplogroup on his father's side (by being English) reflects this. R1b is popular in Germanic peoples. HOwever, it could also be Celtic as R1b is fairly popular in Western Europe and drops off in Germanic lands until it becomes rarer in Slavic ones.

    Basically, because he's part of the most popular haplogroup in Western Europe.

    If it is R1b-L11, it is central England full and through. You should get more genetic testing done to expand the markers. Sparkey can probably tell you which markers to get tested to determine if you're L11.
    L11 actually includes both U106 (typically Germanic in the context of Britain) and L21 (typically Celtic in the context of Britain), as well as others. I know there are some R1b haplotype experts around, I wonder if anybody can tell whether U106 or L21 or something else is most likely based just on these markers?

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